I know Shazier ha sone more game than Manti (ND) but look at comparatives:
TD=1 Int= 1 Solo Tackles = 47 Asst. Tcakles = 36 TFL = 9.5 Sacks = 4 Fumbles Forced = 2
Manti (below)
TD = 1 Int= 5 Solo Tackles = 39 Asst. Tackles = 41 TFL = 4.5 Sacks = 1 Fumbles Forced = 0
Kid is as instinctive as they have ever come. Go Bucks, Go Ryan. #Shazier4heisman
Crazy how similar they are, minus the INT's. Love having Shazier in S&G. Great lookup.
Maybe if the Buckeyes defense didn't get exploited so many times already this season Shazier would get some type of publicity. I don't think his stats are Heisman worthy. Manti has the 5 interceptions and is the leader of the defense for ND who are currently in the conversation for the BCS Championship which gives him the upper hand. Also he has come up huge in some national spotlight games.
The thing is Shazier has been responsible for some TDs on blown coverages and undisciplined play taking poor angles/overrunning the play and not wrapping up (especially earlier in the season). RDS is nowhere near Manti at this point but plays like his hair's on fire and is only an undersized sophomore. He's only going to get better.
Kind of eye popping statistically speaking. Goes to show that I don't believe Te'o deserves the Heisman hype. If Shazier is putting those numbers on the board, I am sure there are a lot of other LBs putting up similar stats
I like Manti as a person but with stats like that I dont understand the Heisman hype.
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
As Shazier plays more disciplined, he will start getting more and more attention. He's still a Sophomore. He has a very bright future.
I love the way Teo plays and his tenacity, but I think Shazier's upside is way higher. Against PSU, it seemed like Shazier was playing at a different speed than the other players on the field. Was the roughing penalty a little out of control? Yeah, but that's where he is in terms of maturity. Those mistakes will fade as he realizes just what he can do on the field. Right now, though, he's just beginning to blow plays up and, when he wraps, he's a pretty devastating tackler. Guys just stop cold.
Manti probably isn't the best LB in NCAA but he has made so many crucial plays that have preserved a perfect season for ND. I think it also has something to do with the the media needing to find a canidate from the top teams and Manti is the leader of a pretty great defense that is in national title contention. Doesn't hurt that he has the simpathy vote going also. LB form Georgia isn't bad either.
if Shazier has more INT's, his stats are actually MUCH BETTER even with 1 more game. I love it.
Also, I hate ND and really hope they end up losing multiple games somehow.
Don't give up... Don't ever give up.
I never thought I'd see the day when I could honestly look myself in the mirror and say I know Notre Dame has a much better defense that Ohio State.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
This right here is why it is not all about the stats. If you look at the games, Manti has outperformed Shazier. Manti has been exactly as billed. Shazier still has some growing to do. Doesn't mean Shazier won't be there in the future, just means right now he is not at the same level.
Manti is a heisman candidate because he is the lock down leader of a NC level defense. Also he is the starting Mike where Shazier is the Will. Mikes always gets more credit!
Now in the NFL, I think Manti will be an all pro Mike and should make a team very happy, but I think that is about it. He won't be like Ray Lewis IMO
Shazier however I can see being a lot like Derrick Brooks from Tampa. A once in a lifetime OLB that can do it all. I see it, I don't think he is there right now, but I can see it.
Really like Shazier but Manti is a better player at this point.
Although I would agree that Manti is a more complete linebacker at this point in time - I love this post. If Shazier had a better supporting cast, I expect he might get a lot more press than he does...Next year - look the f*ck out!
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Manti is better all around right now, bit not by a lot. RDS had more potential. Jarvis Jones is best LB in CFB though.
I haven't seen much of ND this year, but seen a lot of OSU. Yes Shazier stats are great, but I would also like to see the stats of missed tackles, blown coverages and bad angles. Teo is a four year starter, Shazier has only started 12 or 13 games in his career. By the time Shazier is a Senior he should get talked about plenty.
What algorithm are you guys using to come with, that he is better than Shazier? Stats are all that matter. What else would you base his play off of? Hype? He started getting attention with the awful tragedy that occured.
Shazier being responsble for touchdowns is going to happen from time to time, he is a soph. I am sure Manti has blown some coverage too.
Compare there sophomore year stats... Shazier wins by a land slide
The difference comes from the things you don't see in the stat line. Shazier has dropped a bunch of picks, missed tackles, blown assignments, and been called for at least 3 roughing penalties. Those lapses are what holds him back while Teo gets heisman talk. In two years however, I wouldn't be surprised to see RDS talked about in a similar fashion.
Te'o is way better and he's a senior...which speaks about how good Ryan will be as a SR. Shazier has had issues with some things as stated above...those will be cleaned up next year and especially the year after;-)
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Two Heisman Finalists:
QB 1: 289/467 3426 yards, 61.9%, 37 TD, 7 INT, 146.65 rating
QB 2: 203/311 2542 yards, 65.3 %, 30 TD, 6 INT, 161.91 rating. 62 rushes for 228 yards and 1 TD.
Both quarterbacks played for BCS-bowl teams. And by almost all measures (except for percentage and yards/completion), QB 1 was the better statistical guy (as evidenced by numerous awards that season, including the Maxwell) but he finished third in the Heisman race, while QB 2 won by a landslide.
QB 1 is Brady Quinn, QB 2 is Troy Smith.
Statistics are like records, they only tell half the story. Never underestimate the "look" test; it's why Smith won and why Te'o is being considered. Troy was a mistake-free QB with an uncanny knack for the spectacular, Te'o is the same story. And while Shazier certainly passes the "stat" test, watching him shows that he's a young guy who--in addition to being a good linebacker, and by all accounts the future leader of this defense--tends to be undisciplined at times, be it in coverage, tackling, or by getting dumb penalties.
I've watched both play, and there isn't a LB in the NCAA right now that is WAY better then Shazier, if you think that you might need new glasses!
Team record played a big part in compromise of Statistical data of individuals. Both of our teams are undefeated in this instance.
I am not taking anything from Te'o, just believe his hype was sparked by the tragedys. We see the undiscpline of Shazier beacuse we watch every snap of his. No ND fan is going to mention blown assignments or misreads of the closest chance of a heisman in years.
RS will be special
To be fair though most of Teo's interceptions were from Denard Robinson arm punts. Just wait until we play michigan. Then Shazier can catch up.
He's been in the spotlight his entire career at Notre Dame and before as being one of the most saught after defensive players in that class. Give Shazier another year or two and he'll be up there for awards as well. Heisman at that point probably not because we'll have a QB the next two seasons that will probably be at the forefront of that conversation.
JT
Te'o's hype is from being the leader of a stellar (cringe) ND defense. Shazier is getting no hype despite similar numbers because a) our defense is statistically below average, and b) other than last weekend, he hasn't had a "holy $hit" kind of game all year. Interceptions are always "wow" plays, and he has one and dropped a couple of others. He's played well and not so well, depending on the game and the play. Inconsistency doesn't get you Heisman cred; look at how fast QB's drop out of the race with one bad game.
When told OSU set school record for 50+ games this year, UFM said "That's good. We're gonna break that next year."
Bunk stats. Even with game less, Te'o has the advantage of playing against Denard.
Here's another stat for you guys.
Passes defended
Shazier 10 (int, 9 breakups) in 9 games
Manti 8 (5int, 3 breakups) in 8 games
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/1017/p2
Shazier has dropped a couple of sure interceptions. I'm just glad he finally hung onto one and then was able to run it back for the TD.
Shazier in coverage still isn't as good. How many guys have caught short or intermediate passes or have broken off huge plays because Shazier blew coverage. That definitely plays into the overall quality of the player. Shazier is going to be freaking GREAT and he's already good. Teo, though, is the best player on one of the best teams in America.
When people say that McCarron shouldn't be considered I always go back to Troy Smith. Honestly, Troy's stats are the worst of any of the last several QB's to win the Heisman. In terms of total offense and total TD's anyway. He was the best player on the best team, and he was one hell of a leader.
I'm loving Shaziers been maturing this year and playing better. I'm worried about our LBs next year. We need some young guys to step up (Grant, Perry, Crowell, Marcus, Perkins, Roberts, Williams).
A lot of those names you mentioned are extremely talented. I expect we'll see more than 1 step up and make big contributions next year. Plus, a guy like Mitchell could come in and be an impact player from day 1. I do think though, a year in the program will get a lot of these young guys ready to make some big contributions next year.
I agree with OTrain, but those kids will have more than a full year of development (more than two years for Grant and Crowell) before next season begins. That should be plenty of time for them to better understand the defensive scheme. Perry has already played some this year, but he seems like a SAM. I think the major competition will be at MIKE.
Speaking of Grant, I sure hope all this RDS hype is motivating him for a break out year next year. Also, Teo is 2 yrs older, Shazier will eclipse him next year (on a national championship winning team), win the Butkus, and the year after he'll be in the league.