I think everyone recognizes that the biggest problems with the OSU defense are at LB and S, so I decided to check out recruiting at those positions going back to 2008. Here are the players recruited at those positions:
2008: Sabino 5* - broken leg
2009: Bell 5* -transfer; Whiting 3* -transfer; Klein 4* - starter; Wood - no longer with team
2010: McVey 4* - medical; Durham 3* - transfer; Turner 4* - never signed; Hagan - medical
2011: Grant 5* - developing; Crowell 3* - ?; Shazier - starter; Tanner 4* - transfer; Cash 4* - transfer.
What really stands out to me is that the '09 and '10 classes, the guys who should be the upper classmen and leaders of the D, have produced one starter, Storm Klein, at LB and S, actually only one guy even in the two-deep. And there goes your personnel problem.
* edit: used Scout's data base where Pitt Brown '09, Barnett '09, and Bryant '10 are all listed as CBs
This is an excellent post IMO. Putting this into perspective it's easy to see some of the back 7 problems. I wish Cash would have figured it all out and stayed; loved that kid.
OSU has a talented back 7, but not one of the starters can be a miss b/c we just have too few bodies to replace them back there.
Very good and insightful analysis. Only question... Tanner transferred? I wasn't aware of that, and thought I've seen him in on some special teams plays in recent games.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
And just to add, this IMO is where you see oversigning have it's biggest advantage. If OSU signed 28 every year, we'd have 2-3 more guys in those positions every year, and if guys transfer or have medical problems they are just "replaced." I am against oversigning but it shows why it's easier to just plug and play at some other programs
Yeah, I think you're wrong on Tanner. He's still listed on the Roster on ohiostatebuckeyes.com that is "as of October 6th". But his name is absent from the 2 deep that is "as of Oct. 15th.
Yep, I was wrong about Tanner transferring, but he's still not in the two-deep.
SATURDAY- Your point is still valid.
This is why Urban and the staff are recruiting defense heavily... High school LB's should be able to see there is a chance to play early at OSU. I could still see Mitchell in this class, and flipping McMillian or Trey Johnson. We need some LB's bad.
Also left out Orhian Johnson possibly due to being CB. But the crux is you have no depth if you have that many medicals/transfers. In addition the lame duck year has to hurt player development. That locker room and those practices had to be terrible relative to this year's spring and training camp. People are overlooking this fact and blaming Fickell when it is difficult to develop the Crowell/Shazier/Grants under last year's conditions. It was a train wreck inside a hurricane wrapped in a cocoon of horror.
I agree with the theory of this post and actually feel it is purely the cause of the defenses downfall, but I also want to add that with everything that happened, its not a surprise that this team is currently thin at key positions and probably will be for another year or so.
Tanner has not transferred. I've had class with him the last quarter and this semester.
Also Jonathon newsome who seemed to be a pretty good LBs gone. I think everyoneis overreacting some to our D coaching. I remember first thing meyer asked fickell was what he needed most and he replied alot of LBs. I dont care who the coach is if you only have 2 starters, 1 hurt the rest backups and true freshman, your going to have an extremely hard time having a shut down D like we are all used to. ALL of our good or gr8 Ds have had good or gr8 LBer's. MLB is probably the most important position on the type of D we want to run and we have zero capable as of this moment.
You're missing Ejuan Price from your list. Don't know whatever happened to him
I'd love to have Dorian Bell on the roster, I thought he was going to be great but was stuck behind some solid players that were older.
FYI: Price was a 3* in the 2011 class and he transferred to Pitt.
I remember him being a 4* but maybe he was a 3* for one service and a 4* for another. I'll need to google him to see if he ever did anything at Pitt.
Good post, Saturday. I read this and the first thought was just: D'oh!
Losing Sabino was just a backbreaker for this team.
That being said, it's hard for me to explain all of the defenses many shortcomings by this one weakness. Could be wrong, but I think we played a lot of Nickel against IU. Which means half of the weak link on the defense is filled by Shazier. Yeah, he played poorly, but still he is a solid starter in CFB. Depth at LB just doesn't entirely explain giving up 49 points to IU. Not even close. Sounds more like an excuse than an explanation. Really wish one of the freshmen would break out and solidify the LB unit.
Side note: I thought D. Grant was at least as good a cover corner as Howard. Wow did I feel wrong. Woof. Surely he can play better.
Another problem to think about is the middle linebacker is usually the quarterback of the defence. Our current starters at that position were either A) Kicked off the team for fall practice and was re-instated right before the season started. B) Played Fullback the last three years before moving to linebacker last week. We need the freshman to develop quickly.
Good point. As for the young guns, Urban said Perry and Williams were hurt and didn't practice Tuesday. Perkins and Marcus are struggling to learn the D. Too bad, I have high hopes for all 4 of them.
Nice post Ahh Saturday
Hopefully this will slow down the crazy Fickell witch hunt going on and certain fans can give the team a chance to put something together
O H I O is the Buckeye State
I know our personnel is not ideal by a long shot, but I'm not fully buying this. Our D was swiss cheese before Sabino went down, and there is no reason for the LBs to have regressed from last year. Like or not, the coaches need to take a lot of blame here.
The point isn't just lack of depth to fill in after injuries. In a normal scenario there would be more competition for starting positions with the best man winning. A lot of these guys are starters because there isn't another option. When they make a bad decision there's no one to bring in if you want to bench them.
I think one thing that is being overlooked and possibly the biggest reason for our lack of an effective LB corp is losing out on Hicks and DePriest. That was huge and we are seeing the results in our poor production today. I can only imagine what are defense would've looked like with Shazier, Hicks, Sabino and DePriest....
I would be pretty pissed myself if Fickell and Vrabel were not with the program after this season. People are nuts if they don't think those 2 guys are a couple of the best recruiters in the nation.
Yes, everything about the defense needs improvement but this coaching staff needs continuity as much as the players do. The entire program is in a state of flux and without a kid who is sitting in the top 3 for the Heisman Trophy right now this team would likely be hovering around .500.
It's going to take some time folks. Sure Urban has a great track record, but none of his initial seasons started 7-0 at his previous 3 head coaching gigs. None of them even started 5-0.
vacuuming sucks
I agree, its a personell problem and opponents know the weaknesses in the defense. Of Course taking the last 4 minutef off in the Indiana game didn't help. It seemed like the defense became spectators watching Indiana make plays.
Personnel is definitely part of the issue, but the fact that half of the defensive staff (aka the secondary) is new, including a new co-DC, cannot be overlooked. These are not the Silver Bullets of the last decade because they're not being coached like the Silver Bullets of the last decade. That's not to say they can't be great again, but we are in an adjustment period we haven't had to have in a decade. One way or another, it will get better.
"The revolution will be televised."
* SEE PENN ST. (no excuses)...we still have better talent on the field than almost any other D we play.
D. Anthony
Great post SATURDAY. Thats an amazing rate of attrition. As I stated on an earlier post I'm shutting down the comments about the defense. We've got serious personnel issues and all the coaching in the world won't compensate for it. Players could be out of position trying to help out, the list of possibilities for poor play is endless. I'm giving the D a pass til Sunday morning.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
Agreed, great post Saturday.
We as fans need to back off Fickell. We don't need to contribute to him worrying about his job security instead of getting some sleep and concentrating on coaching our defense.
Come on, put your self in his shoes, don't you think that if we are saying anything it should be in support of him? He's exactly the type of person that we should be proud to call a Buckeye.
I hate to say this but if we must vent, can't we at least aim it at defensive coaches who haven't dedicated their entire adult life to Ohio State?