Eleven Warriors

"Herbie is great at his job"

Saying SEC, moxy, and speed every other sentence makes you great?

WOW! Kirk Herb....YAAAWWWNNN...ZZ...ZZZZ...ZZZZZZZZ

True Story... My roomate in college was assistant compliance director of the university which I wont name. Back in 2001 when him and Corso and Fowler came to do a thursday night game my roomate got to spend some time with Herbie. My roomate told him I was a huge OSU fan. So they got to talking and he told my roomate that if he had to do it all over again he would have never gone to OSU and that he had a miserable time while he was there. He said the only good thing that came out of going to OSU was that he met his wife.

IMO he has held a grudge against OSU for sometime. If that is the way he feels then thats fine with me and should be fine with everyone else.

I use to think that Kirk was objective in his views about Ohio state. He said that he does more stuff for ohio state behind the scenes than people know.Then he starts to homer out when Meyer is coach and says OSU will run the Big Ten and other comments to devalue the other B1G opponents. Then he moves out of Columbus because of the 10% of Buckeye fans. Finally he steps on his high horse and gets a man fired from The Fan. I'm sorry but I just lost all respect for him when throwing salt on a person womb  wound and helping to get him fired. 

“I think what Desmond Howard had to deal with over the weekend is disgusting and very sad,” Herbstreit said. “I don’t know the reason behind it, but the tweet from an individual that works at the radio station was above and beyond, I think, what was acceptable … There’s so much more I wish I could say about that and I’ll choose not to … To me he crossed a line and that’s just completely unacceptable.”
 -Herbie via The Lantern

Herbstreit often forgets who the very people are that gave him power in the first place. I agree with everything you said in your post.....

D. Anthony.... You dont think I guy like that can put on a performance in front of people.  He lived in Columbus he was QB for the Buckeyes of course he would do all that stuff. Everyone would. ( Except Robert Smith. We all know he hates OSU )

BME - Again, tell me how Herbie got Torg fired? Herbie talked about it for all of 5 minutes on his show ONE time. I keep hearing all these ppl saying he lobbied for Torg to get fired...well, show the proof because no one else has provided any. Torg made the comments, the station fired him.

If gameday never comes back to Columbus, it will still be too soon for me.

It wasnt an OSU employee. I said we went to another school and he was there comentating the thursday night game. He has been friends with Herbie for a while so I dont think he would just make it up. Like I said I am just saying what he told me. Dont care if you believe it or not. I tend to believe it because he knows him and just wouldnt say it to say it.

@ Brew: Do you not think OSU helped him get to where he is? 

@ Cincy: I personally think that while he didn't get him "fired" like walking into the office and say You're Fired, I think his comments about the situation made things worse. The feeling I got from Herbie statement was that this was unacceptable and something should be done about this matter. No one talks or makes statements like that about ESPN employees. The Fans needs to do something about this.  

Forgive me for not being with the times about this matter. I'm no longer in Columbus so this matter is new to me.

Herbie is smug and confident and a damn good sports broadcaster! Just because he tries to be partial and fair doesn't meanhe is  dissing his Alma Matter. Let me break the news to all of the cavemen who think Torg should have kept his job after making that imature Tweet. Herbie standing up for a co-worker and friend was the least he could have done. Torg was an idiot and in his line of work when you do what he did you get fired. Stop giving Torg a pass for what he did, it was stupid, childish and totally something he should have gotten fired for. Herbie didn't get him fired, Torg got himself fired!

And in 2009...8 years after he 'told your friend he hated OSU'....

"When I'm on the air, I would challenge anybody to watch me when I do a game and try to figure out what school I went to. When I'm off the air I'm an Ohio State fan. Sorry. I went to school there, I was a captain there, my kids wear their Ohio State jerseys almost everyday. They wake up singing the fight song. We're  an Ohio State family. [About the photo] I Wasn't on the air, I'm going to go crazy. My work speaks for itself. The way I'm fair and objective – sometimes I probably go too far in being critical toward Ohio State, but I had a ton of people send me that photo.”"

Your friend's lying. Sorry dude.

Nope, Cinamon Toast Crunch for Breakfast today and no to the parents thing. Good story though.

Point is, you are the one getting up in arms now-Herbie has never said anything about how he hates OSU-and instead of believing him you assume he's simply lying because it suits your opinion of him. You can't logically construct an argument without getting over emotional and your contention this whole time has been "my friend told me".

So that's fine, if you want to take it there. I get it-you don't like Herbie and that's fine. I like him, think he's objective, but its clear as day the dude loves OSU...then again your friend did say he didn't one time so....

Well obviously you didnt read everything because I too said I like Herbie. I said I was probably the only one on here that does. You do too and thats good. Like I said whether you believe me or not is fine. I get it. Just dont come out and "hate" and say its not true. Its a blog site. People say stuff all the time thats not true. Your allowed to voice your opinion but so am I. I respect you dont believe what my friend said. Im telling you what was told to me. I really hope to believe he does love OSU. And I am sure on some stuff he does.

Mmm, cinnamon toast crunch...

I have to say, I'm probably partial to Marshmallow Mateys though. You know, the giant bag of Malt-o-meal's Lucky Charms knockoff that can be found on your supermarket's bottom shelf? So good...

I don't buy into all the Herbie hates Ohio State crap that's been going around for years. That's total nonsense. No one should hate Herbie, really. I think he's very good at what he does. He has to walk a fine line, being a national figure, of being a homer but at the same time not pissing off where he comes from. The 10%ers never got that. I am always proud to have Ohio State alums in the media that are credible and unbiased because otherwise they would just be Mark May (and we all know that's not a favorable light for us). I think that reflects much more favorably of us nationally than if he were to pick us to win every game and Michigan to lose every game by 40 like Mark May would like to do against us. That's what the 10%er morons have wanted to hear. What?? Herbstreit didn't pick us to win by a million points??! He's a traitor! I guess it just gives those morons comfort enough to sleep at night knowing everyone picks Ohio State to win every game ever.

All of that being said, I do find him fairly annoying...especially in light of all this Torg business with his constant holier than thou garbage. This annoyance has nothing to do with tOSU or Desmond Howard/Michigan...rather I'm annoyed by anyone who turns into this. I still like Herbie but his holier than thou persona is a bit annoying.

Well said Bolt!

I'll take Herbie over Mayday, or most any of the other clowns at ESPN........

Does anyone on here stop and think for a moment that maybe he stuck up for Desmond because he knows first hand what "words", as empty and thoughtless as they may be, can do to a family?  Especially a wife and young children that are often home alone because of their husband's travel schedule.  It only takes one nut job to actually think he is doing everyone else a favor to act upon his words.  It's one thing to say something like this to your best friend while having drinks, completely another to post it on a social media site.  Just like downvotes for no reason and rude comments in 11W threads, think before you post.  Once you do, it's out there for everyone.  And even though it was his own personal twitter account, it does not make one bit of difference.  He still is accountable for his words, even more so with his line of work.   And Herbie is no Buckeye hater.  We know him personally, and believe me, it is not an act.

Even though its Desmond, Herbie has the responsibility to stick up for his coworkers.

He didn't wish harm on anybody. He made an off color joke that people took way too seriously. The Howard family accepted the apology, so I'm not sure why everyone is still throwing a fit about it. The whole thing could have been handled much better by all parties if they had just acted like adults. The torg guy should have called desmond much sooner to apologize personally and/or Howard should have called him to find out the purpose of the tweet (I'm sure they could get each others numbers from employers.) That is how mature adults handle things. Herbstreit could have then minded his own business and Howard's family would not have to have been "traumatized." The radio station should have limited punishment to a suspension, mainly because the guy was just doing what they pay him to do...make crude jokes to try and entertain people. If they had a problem with his style of humor, they should have fired him a long time ago.

Everybody at one time or another says something they regret and wish they could take back, so unless it is a direct threat, I think adults should be able to handle it a lot better than all of these people handled this. 

I beg to differ about ppl not caring about Des being a homer, heck we call him out on this site for being one all the time. It's great Dez chooses to be a homer, but he will never be taken seriously because of it.

I interpret the downvote I received as being from someone who really hates Marshmallow Mateys. Or maybe from the Lucky Charms leprechaun?

I would love to watch a game with Herbstreit and Gus Johnson calling it.

I think this whole thread is MOO.

I won't get into the "fake Buckeye" argument. Who knows? What we do know something about is Herbie's professional output. Some of Herbie's defenders want us to take it for granted that Herbie is good at what he does, but is he?

IMO, Herbie has always been a great fit for College GameDay, even though that program has declined overall since its heyday.

On the other hand, Herbie is a mediocre game announcer (color analyst). Herbie's analysis tends to be shallow and repetitive. I'm not a fan of Musberger, but give the man some credit. Herbie rides his coattails. Put Herbie with Pam Ward and it'd be clear how weak Herbie is. Granted, a lot of color anaysts over the years have brought shallow substantive content, but at least they had more personality than Herbie does, even if some of them were borderline clowns - Lou Holtz, Matt Millen, Paul Maguire.

Color analysts who are/were substantively better than Herbie include: Bob Davie, Todd Blackledge, Ed Cunningham, Dan Fouts, Bill Curry, Bob Griese . . . off the top of my head. 

When Buckeye fans and/or SEC fans call out Herbie for being overly-sensitive, arrogant, shallow, and narcissistic . . . sure, these fans are probably motivated by homerism, bias, etc., but maybe they have a point. Herbie has been a game analyst for - what? - about seven years now? Why is he no better now than when he started? Heck, he might be worse. Maybe Herbie ought to look in the mirror every once in a while, instead of constantly pointing out that some people in America are beneath his contempt?

Brewster, I almost always agree with the stuff you write. Not this one though.

BME-Ohio State gave him an education, and for that education he played football for them. OSU fans, such as you and me, had no bearing whatsoever on the man's eventual success. Thinking so is entitled, wrong and misguided.

I absolutely think that OSU fans had something to do with Herbstreit getting in the door at ESPiN. Part of it is that the university produces pretty well-rounded student-athletes who represent themselves well. And also our football program does a good job at producing players who are very knowledgeable about the game.

But we Buckeye fans are a market segment that ESPiN has dedicated much resources into keeping us interested in their product. Because well, we're very large and are kind of insane about following the Buckeyes. So yeah, I do believe us fans had some bearing on Herbstreit (and Spielman, Smith, Galloway... who else) getting an opportunity at ESPiN.

Just saying.

The only thing that does sadden me is how he joined the bandwagon when we were at our lowest point in the history of OSU. 

Would you rather him to put blinders on and not be objective? For him to do so would be just like the former Penn State players like Matt Millen who blindly defended Joe Paterno and Penn State in the wake of the Sandusky stuff and depsite the evidence in the Freeh Report. 

The situation @ OSU with Tressel deserved criticism and Herbstreit wasn't the only former Buckeye to be critical of the program at that time. 

maybe mark may hates osu because of the 72 to 0 beatdown they gave his alma mater?

idk just my 2 cents lol

Thats probably true Brutus Forever but then he should hate a lot of schools because a lot of them put a beatdown on Pitt in the mid to late 90's...

We would not be having this conversation at this time had Herbie simply pulled Torg aside and man to man, face to face, tell him he did not appreciate the tweet. In whatever way he would choose to and be done with it. Going on radio to announce his personal feelings on a touchy situation wasn't the proper way to go about righting a wrong.

Amazing that a guy who wishes another human being dead isn't the one who handled things the wrong way.

 My problem with him is his hollier than thou approach to everything

Like what? What has he said that is holier than though? You say "To everything" so there should be some real clear empirical examples to support this claim. Please, enlighten me.

If you want to defend Torg because he has the right to say what he wants that is fine. Then 97.1 has the right to fire him for putting 97.1 in a negative light. He wished a guy would die!!! He needed to get fired that day. In fact The Comman man and Torg would say the same thing if someone else would have done that because they have said that before. So if they say it shouldnt it happen to the Torg???

Does anyone have actual concrete evidence to prove that Herbstreit had a hand in Torg's firing @ 97.1? 

I dont think there is any concrete evidence at all and doesnt have to be. I dont think Herbie got Torg fired. Torg got Torg fired. He made 97.1 look bad because he works for them.

"Like what? What has he said that is holier than though? You say "To everything" so there should be some real clear empirical examples to support this claim. Please, enlighten me."

Answering a question about how Tressel could avoid NCAA violations in the future comes to mind:

"Stop recruiting guys like Maurice Clarett and Terrelle Pryor"

Gotta problem with Herbie? 

Here's option 1 (very popular): Watch Gameday, swear and throw Cheetos at the TV everytime he speaks.  Write a lengthy rant on an OSU message board afterwards --bonus points for using the phrase "fake Buckeye." 

Here's option 2: Change the channel.

Pam,

Both of those guys' actions lead to either NCAA investigations, or in the case of Terrelle Pryor-NCAA sanctions. Were Mo C and TP entirely to blame? Absolutley not and my comments on Pryor speak for themselves as I've called him the second greatest QB in OSU history on multiple occasions. That isn't holier than though-that's a G-Darn fact. The two names he specifically said were almost (and I stress almost) more trouble than they were worth at the time they were here.

They both had their problems that lead to greater headaches for OSU. Still not seeing what is holier than thou from Herbstreit.

And how is torg's opinion any less than Kirks?  Regardless of what Torg said he did not deserve to be fired.

The man gets paid to share his opinion. He doesn't get paid to share his opinion based on whether or not Buckeye fans agree with it.

It's funny that we blame Herbie for answering a direct question with a direct answer. While I loved said players on field results, their baggage was(in hindsight) not worth it. By your logic many posters on here are also "holier than thou" with regards to Robert Foster and his potential baggage. Explain how this is different...

I won't go that far, OSUMa. First and foremost, two of my greatest memories as an OSU fan involve Pryor (Iowa 4th and it doesnt matter I'm going to get it) and Clarrett (anyone in the stands the first time he touched the ball against TTU knows what I'm talking about here). They were kids who made mistakes, but I'd still take them on OSU's roster any day of the week. The fact remains-Herbie illustrated that those two names specifically gave OSU trouble and lead to bigger and badder problems for the program and university. I'm ok with guys who make mistakes, and Maurice Clarrett might be the best, shining example of a guy who really learned from his mistakes while Pryor appears to be growing up as a player in the NFL. At the time they attended OSU, their actions (in addition to others) caught the attention of the NCAA.

We're getting off track regardless. The initial point here was that Herbie doesn't like Ohio State and frankly there is absolutley nothing to show that's true and quite a bit to show quite the opposite. He's disliked because OSU fans dislike him, they don't really care to know why they dislike him.

And how is torg's opinion any less than Kirks?  Regardless of what Torg said he did not deserve to be fired.

I never said Torg should have been fired. I am surprised he was let go. But listen, Torg tweeted something stupid. When you do stupid things there are consequences. I'm not sure what your comment about Torg's opinion and Kirk's have to do with anything. 

BTAlbert-I'm a Chicago Whitesox fan. Their TV broadcasts are done by the eloquent, intelligent-borderline genius Steve Stone who played for and broadcasted for both the Cubs and Sox and Ken "The Hawk" Harrelson who has been doing Sox games for 20 something years and has gotten more and more homery by the season-it makes watching an otherwise great Stone broadcast just down right awful.

Cincy-yep. I get that people have their opinions but when there is so much evidence to exactly the contrary, adherence to said opinion is wrong, stubborn, and...well.."Franco-esque". There just isn't anything out there to support the notion that Herbie dislikes OSU.

Many have pointed out since Herbie made that comment about Tressel recruiting "those kind of guys" that virtually everyone in America recruited those 2 players.  What people ignore is, Herbie does have a little insight to the locker room and hear's rumors about players and  probably has his finger on the pulse a lot better than most of us.  So, while he made that comment, I don't think he meant don't recruit exceptional athletes.  He meant don't recruit guys that have a bunch of Red Flags popping up all around them.  Think Foster for this year.

I have really thought the last few years, the reason that Herbie was so critical of Ohio State is that he knew trouble would come in the Tressel Era.  I have no proof of that, but I do find it funny that he has not been NEARLY as critical of Ohio State, since Tressel left.

This may be a reason why he moved out of Ohio...stay classy people.  He can't say OSU will win every game and he must remain unbaised.  It's not good for announcers to be a homer.  Would you rather him be like Mark May...and hate on every team besides Pitt...(especially OSU and ND)???  Something to think about there huh...???   

Brewster... Like you I love getting those types of players too. I mean we dont sniff the NC without Clarrett and TP was IMO a really good college quarterback. What I agree with Herbie is these guys put themselves above OSU and didnt care what happened to OSU at that time. We cannot afford to recruit players like that and believe me if we can get the best players in the nation every year I am all for it. But if they have character issues which was brought up before these guys got to OSU do we take a chance on them? I dont know if we do. Not saying I am right but they got OSU in trouble because they didnt care.

Has there been a vote put up on his firing yet?   I would like to see a final result of who thinks he should or should not have been fired.

I vote he keep his job. When I was in college and driving to/from campus he would always say stupid stuff. Regardless if you like him or not the man needs a paycheck. 

Out of curiosity, if he does file a law suit against The Fan and he wins, what's most likely to happen? 

Im not saying Herbie has to pick OSU every single game and think the Bucks are the best team week in and week out but a part of you kinda expects a former OSU alum to side with the Bucks during big games. Hell its been times when I personally didnt think we (OSU) stood a chance in a few games but I never picked against us. I can understand if he chooses not to do that but thats some of the reason why Buckeye Nation isnt feeling the love from him. Im not saying go in blind screaming OHIO STATE every chance you get, but to side with your team more often than not is expected its called having faith in your team. And lets be real, the reason we hate Des is because he went to scUM and hit us with the Heisman pose! He's really not that bad as a analyst people (atleast I dont think so). Mark May is a completely different story. He never picks OSU and clearly has a personal vendetta against OSU. He sounds like a complete idiot when he gets the talking about OSU. The only teams I ever hear him show faith in is Pitt and USC. Everybody usually sides with their Alma Mater but I guess Herbie chooses not to. Either way I dont care I still like the guy but I can understand why he gets some of the heat from Buckeye Nation....

Poop(hahaha) - I must say I find it funny when those who dislike Herbie only point out the few occasions where he has been critical of OSU, yet completely ignore anything else. See my previous comment about affirmation vs information...your comment falls into that category.

This thread got ugly quick...

What criticisms has he levied at OSU that are applicable to other schools?

Some of Herbie's supporters might not have had opportunity to listen him back when he did local radio in C-Bus. Occasionally, when a caller or other radio guest/analyst effectively challenged Herbie's arguments, Herbie became defensive and verbally lashed-out. My impression is that he's always had a thin skin.

When Herbie is doing GameDay or in-game analysis, he's not confronted with serious criticism of his arguments. The banter on GameDay is playful and Mussburger, the play-by-play guy, has no reason to challenge Herbie's analysis.

So, maybe a lot of fans haven't seen/heard that side of Herbie. But lots of us have seen it and, unlike his well-coiffed countenance, it ain't pretty.

I feel the need to repeat what I said previously:

The man gets paid to share his opinion. He doesn't get paid to share his opinion based on whether or not Buckeye fans agree with it.

The problem with sports personalities is quite simple.  You either love them or hate them.  If they are a homer for their team, opposing fans will decry them forever and the home team sees nothing wrong with their commentary.  Flip it around and the home fans feel as though they are being given undue criticism while opposing fans feel the person is just being honest.  It is a lose lose for the commentator and a very small tightrope that must be walked.  Either way, they will never keep everyone happy.   

You know who is laughing at all of us... Herbie... Because he knows he gets paid millions for his analysts and opinions and probably doesnt care what we think of him because he is wiping his tears of laughter with his Benjamins!!!

I will agree about his think skin though.  That's the whole reason he cancelled the Twitter account the first time.  Remember his Twitter war with a college QB, and fans.  He admitted as much though. 

Chris Spielman has been critical of Ohio State as well and he draws a check from the same puppet masters as Herbie. Spiels has been all but canonized by Buckeye fans.

What is the difference between the two?

BT, that is fine to have your personal opinion about something.  But, when you are paid to be an analyst you need to be objective.  I haven't heard him say he wouldn't want his sons to play for Charlie Cheeseburger or Dick Rod or anyone else.

He finds it quite easy to throw OSU under the bus, but suck the SEC dick without regret.

He may be making millions, but that doesn't wash the douche off of him.  There are lots of people with lots of money I don't give two shits for.

Good question Brewster. I think it's because Spiels has more substance and less flash. An actual analyst rather than a buzzword creator/repeater.

And to follow on, poop, he is about as real as you can get.  Married his high school sweetheart, quit the NFL to be with her, active in the community, applied for the OSU job when Cooper was let go.  You know that what you see with him is what he really is.

This thread is justifiying his move to Nashville... I didn't believe the stories I read about Herbstreit and Buckeye fans when he lived in Columbus, but I guess I was wrong. 

If you think Herbstreit is a homer... Maybe you need to watch a 3:30 SEC game with Lundquist and Danielson commentating...

I don't think anyone thinks Herbie is a homer. Pro Herbie people like myself think he's impartial. Anti Herbie folks thinks he hates Ohio State. There's no middle ground.

Personally, I think the guy is in an unenviable position.

Brewsters: on Spielman v. Herbie, it might not even be so much the content of the critcisms, per se.

Maybe part of the reason some Buckeye fans give more slack to Spiels is that he has an inner humility. And it's not just because of Spielman's "blue collar" background/ethic. We respect his attitude, character, life story.

Every year, Spiels has worked to become a better game analyst. He kinda struggled that first year with Pam Ward, if I remember correctly, but he's now eight times better than when he first started.

I'm inclined to reorient your question a bit: If the same fans respond one way to Spielman - when he criticizes the team/university - but another way to Herbie doing the same/similar, why should we look to a constant variable (the fans) for an explanation of the different results?

Brewsters, Herbie isn't hollier than thou because of his criticism of OSU.  He's hollier than thou because of his condesending attitude to just about everyone.  The vibe I get from him is he feels he is the smartest guy in the room, and the best looking.  He comes across as a smug ass.

ESPN has a lot of former Buckeyes on the payroll and I'm happier than shit about it.  Spiels, Smith and the others don't routinely crap on their alma mater every chance they get.

Todd Blackledge is my favorite analyst.  I know he went to Penn state, but he doesn't shove it down our throats, he doesn't throw them under the bus every chance he gets, and he does a damn fine job analyzing college football games. 

Desmond Howard is a mush mouthed know nothing.  Him being a graduate of AACC and "the pose", along with singing "the victors" on air in  Ohio Stadium make him a complete and total douche nozzle, but that's not the reason I don't like him.  His piss poor articulation and shitty content does.

Because that's the constant Fido=That's exactly why I look to the fans. Herbie and Spielman have both been critical of Ohio State and I never  understood the venom towards one and the adoration towards the other. Doc is doing a fine job of proving my point time and time again-people have their opinions on Herbie and noting will change that. He, twice in one response, has gone out of his way to say Herbie 'shits on OSU every chance he gets'. EVERY chance? Shits on? come on man..

Ok Doc. What should he say? OSU WAS INVOLVED IN A SCANDAL. Whatever the reason was, however inane and arcane the rules they broke were-Ohio State was in some hot water. What should Herbie have done? Pandered to fringe fans like yourself and take a hard line stance against all OSU criticisim?

We saw two contrasting approaches to handling criticisms when scandal hits a big, prominent program in two consecutive summers. I will take the accepting, critical approach Ohio State folks like Herbie took over the millitant, illogical approach Penn State and its voices took any day of the week.

For anyone that cares:

http://www.thetorgshow.com/

I can think of a lot of sportscasters/writers/analysts that I dislike and Herbie falls WAAAAYYYY down on THAT list! He's one of us, but he's got a job to do so take his comments for what they are. 

@cincyosu

Mo and TP didn't have baggage which of  course was my point that you seem to have missed. He picked and got the highest profile guys that every coach wanted based on the same information that those coaches had. There are tattoo parlors in AA and Eugene just as there was Nevin Shapiro in Coral Gables. I am sure both of them could have found their way into some trouble. Herbie made it about JT's judgement and that IMO was a cheap shot not to mention BS.

Agree with Doc & Pam. Great points from both of you and many others throughout this thread.

So we at 11w are supporters of OSU by complaining about play calling, questioning decision making, and constantly bad mouthing certain players (storm Klein) on this sight, on a weekly basis but Herbie doesnt support OSU for critiquing the same things??

Just so I got that right?

Also on a personal note, I think it was obvious to many that Herbstreit had a problem with Tressel on a personal level and it showed when he was on air and I think that affects the outlook people have on him as well

Some would call this being unprofessional, but don't point that out to some others ;/.

@Razorback16 I am fine with you having a problem with his inconsistencies and not likeing him because of it.

@Doc also agree that if he was purposely against Tressel and slamming the Bucks because of it does make him unprofessional.

Neither is proof of what I believe to be the original question is "Does Herbie hate OSU?"

As an american you dont have to like the president. You can bad mouth him all day long but that doesnt make you less of an American.

It's just sad that were having this debate, when all of the facts haven't even come out yet. I like Torg like a lot of people but what he said on the radio was wrong and should of never been said. Regardless if the person went to TSUN, you don't wish someone to die on national tv or radio. Herbie was sticking up for his colleague and friend even though he went to TSUN. Lets not forget that the hatred from some fellow Buckeye fans towards Herbies lack of support is the reason why he moved his family out of Ohio. How do you think he felt when he had to tell his kids were moving because people don't like me because I am not biased enough towards OSU. I would love for Torg to be back on the air, but until like Torg said on his new website, he is taking lawful action and can't say much until the lawsuits pan out, so lets just let this play out until we know all the facts. 

Mo did have baggage before he came to OSU.  He was very divisive even as a young kid and according to an article in the Warren Tribune, one of his coaches said Mo not only brought down the Steel Valley Conference, but stated he would also take down OSU.  He almost succeeded.  From what I remember, he was the reason Manningham, his teammate in Warren, didn't go to OSU and chose TTUN instead.  He was an amazing talent and I loved him as a player but wasn't surprised at what he did to OSU.  I really believe Tressel thought he could make a difference in Mo's life and turn him around.  Tress showed his love for Mo by not turning his back on him for what he did and continued to be an influence in his life even after he went to prison.  I am so glad Mo finally did turn his life around. 

@ Brewstersmillions

"Chris Spielman has been critical of Ohio State as well and he draws a check from the same puppet masters as Herbie. Spiels has been all but canonized by Buckeye fans.

What is the difference between the two?"

In my opinion the difference is that Spielman is genuine and Herbstreit is arrogant and smug. Herbstreit comes off as being so full of himself, so self important that it turns some people off. Spielman comes of as a regular guy who loves football. In addition, Spielman actually produced while at Ohio State... Herbstreit did not. His career was a disappointment at best, but his conceitedness would lead one to believe that he was a decorated All-American. It just comes down to this: Herbstreit presents like someone with a self exaggerated opinion, while Spielman seems humble, likeable and has college football HOF and NFL credibility. 

One last thing: This whole Scott Torgerson v. Herbstreit thing is another example of Herbstreit's arrogance. Let me preface by saying I could not stand Torgerson's radio show on 1460. I'm sure most of that is my age (48) as that show's targeted demographic would seem to be college aged young men. So this isn't a defense of Torgerson in the least. Having said that it is beyond ridiculous to me that Herbstreit had to publically rip Torgerson for what was an obvious joke... albeit one in poor taste. If Herbstreit had any class or was any sort of decent man he would have realized that he and Torgerson were employed by the same company, and he could have simply confronted Torgerson personally, expressed his displeasure, and left it at that. But that wasn't good enough for Herbstreit. He had to publically chastise Torgerson (not herbstreit's place to do so), flex his ESPN muscles and contribute to the firing of a guy who is married with small children. If I were Kirk Herbstreit I would feel about an inch tall right now knowing that I played a significant role in a co-worker losing his job, at least in part, as a result of my over reaching actions. 

Pam-

Mo absolutely did NOT graduate early. 

Bucktoooooooth, heeyaw.

Duh.  HS.  I retract.

Bucktooooooth, heyaw.

Totally agree with KMP10, my feelings exactly.

Brewster, isn't that what makes us all like or dislike someone?  Listen to someone, or not?  If they are like able we tend to listen and enjoy their feedback.  Chris seems to be like able. He can criticize OSU and we listen because of that.  You know listening to Spiels he genuinely cares for Ohio State. I, and many others, don't get that feeling from Herbstriet.  He comes across as superior and aloof.  I'm not going to listen to someone like that if they tell me I'm on fire, and I am!  Herbie  maybe right about his thoughts on Ohio State, but since it only seems like he bitches about OSU then the fan base is not going to listen.  Plain and simple, it's not rocket surgery.

  When Herbie announces games, he is very accrurate with his analysis.  So is Spielman.  We understand that.  It's the commentary outside of the press box that bothers me.  Herbie criticiizes us every chance he gets.  Spielman picks his battles and has shown his love for OSU on occasion, even from the press box.