PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
Gotta think Meyer is gonna clean house on D.
Maybe this year
Too late to make any moves this year.
Wouldn't doubt it. I can't believe that I actually miss Heacock.
Meyer has a look on his face that I would not want to see if I were a Defensive coach.
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University
terrible.... its like players just did not want to play. Felt that a win was already in the cards.... Can never take it easy man.... Being a defensive player myself, I was embarrassed man.... But then again, I am just sitting on my couch writing on my computer..... I don't know, guess my frustration is just showing. Not sure what was wrong with the defense today.
At least its a win right? ugh.... My neighbors have children..... they may hate me after tonight...
I hate to say it, but I hope they go after what I just saw tonight.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
As much as I hate to admit this I am starting to believe that our defensive coaches are not do a very good job. We have the players but they can't tackle or cover or do anything to stop others from scoring. Offense better put up 50-60 every game or we are in trouble.
No excuses for defensive injuries anymore...no matter how injured we are we have 10 times the talent of indiana and it comes down to coaching
I try to be positive, but wow. I knew Indiana's offense would put up points on our defense. I just didn't know that we would quit early in the 4th because that's what it looked like. Big lead so why play hard? I think Urban will make them pay for that. No way as a coach you can feel good about that and you HAVE to address it with your team. I'm sure he will. Pretty sad finish to an otherwise pretty good outing.
Agreed. This is the most empty that I've felt after a buckeye win in years. Inexcusable performance by the D.
I think Urban will be like Woody and Tressel and almost never fire coaches. Plus, I don't think you want to lose a recruiter like Vrabel.
I think Vrabel will stay. He's such a valuable recruiter, but Fickell? Get him outta heree
Yes, love both of them but they are in way over there heads.
Are clueless, getting worse each game on D
Agree with Golden Buckeye. Keep Vrabel (the D-line HAS had a few good games, but was w/out Nathan Williams tonight and Spence was up and down constantly so didn't get a chance to establish himself).
Fickel needs to go. I'm so tired of the corners playing 10 yards off. The lack of LB help underneith really hurt us, though. Boren and Spence (when they had him back up and play pass coverage) were understandably lost.
Maybe Fickell could get that Pizza guy's job?
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again," said Meyer. "Do it a little harder next time."
Can we steal Bob Diaco from Notre Dame and ditch Withers and Fickel?
Diaco had a top ten D at Cincy and has a top ten at ND. Plus he and Coombs have worked together before.
^^^^^^^ (Pharmbuck) LOL!
Mr. Fickell, you basically won the Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes last year, thanks for your service, you were paid for it big time. Goodbye. You know Meyer didn't really want to keep him.
That will never happen again.
Class of 2010.
I appreciate Fickell's loyalty but this is a business. I am starting to believe that we had more than one video coordinator on the team last year.
I feel like we lost... Ugh!
I think Fickell should have his play calling privileges stripped but be allowed to stay. The only "problem" I see is defensive design. Plays where no one is getting touched and receivers are wide open? All scheme errors. Let Withers call the plays.
You'd be crazy to get rid of Vrabel he's our best recruiter
Wouldn't bother me in the least if Fickell is gone. But I agree that Vrabel should stay as a position coach and recruiter (most important) and make Withers the solo DC. I don't think there's a chance Bob Diaco will be available, as he'll probably get a head coaching job soon. So my question is, if Fickell is gone, will they bring in someone to replace him or just make Withers the DC?
Fickel as a linebackers coach exclusively = good idea. Him as a defensive playcaller/scheme designer? Horrible idea.
I wouldn't cheer for Michigan if they were playing the Taliban.
Fickell as the linebackers coach? How are the linebackers under his leadership this year? Enough said.
Grant has had the benefit of almost 2 seasons of Fickells coaching. Roberts was here for the the spring. Perkins Crowell, Marcus, and Williams have had since summer to pick up the basics...yet they deemed Boren as "more ready" even though he hasn't played LB since HS. You get the feeling that someone's coaching isn't getting the job done???
Urban stated after the game that Shazier, Sabino, Williams, and Perry were all hurt tuesday, which is when Boren got his first reps. In all honesty, he didn't look bad at all. Better than Klein, IMO
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
vrabel should stay the dline isnt bad... but we need a d coordinator... its sad our starting fullback is better than any lber on the team
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
To everyone saying that Vrabel should be kept because of his recuiting prowess:
Do you guys not remember that Luke Fickell was Jim Tressel's recruiting coordinator? Fickell was Tressel's top recruiter, and he can sell Ohio State better than anybody. Fickell was responsible for the majority of Tressel's recruiting classes, and is more vauable from a recruiting aspect that Mike Vrabel. Sure Fickell deserves some blame for this year's LB corp, but doesn't he also get credit for the A.J. Hawk and James Laurinaitis era?
I agree with the position of keeping Fickell, but taking away his play-calling responsibilities.
@klfeck So while your at it will you be calling for the head of the man that hired them too?
O H I O is the Buckeye State
I say let Fickell go to d-line and move Vrabel to LB's. that's their natural positions. Can't get rid of Vrabel, too good of a recruiter.
I was at the game and thought I was going to end up leaving embarrassed. The defense is pathetic.
Vrabel came back to help Fickell, they're friends. Homestly, if one goes, I think the other will follow just because of that. Can't expect Vrabel to stay without Fickell.
It's 5 o'clock somewhere, & Michigan still sucks
Just because Vrabel "might" be a good recruiter doesn't mean you keep him. Same with Fickell. What good is a coach if he can recruit like hell but can't do shiz about it?
I hope there's a massive overhaul on the D side immediately after the Michigan game. Fickell is not even a peewee level coach. Vrabel is unproven. He's only been in here 2 frickin years. Gimme a break.
You wanna see how a GOOD defensive coordinator works? Look no further than that team up north. Mattison turned around tSUN's defense in 1 year after 3 horrid years of recruiting under Rodriguez. tSUN has LESS talent on D. They were swiss cheese before Mattison. When he came, he turned one of the worst defenses in college football to a top 30 (20?) overall in one year WITH THE SAME PLAYERS!
You can't tell me a guy like Stoops or someone else with proven commodity can't do a better job with what we have. Fickell is not a d-coordinator. Vrabel hasn't done anything worth noting.
I hope Meyer has a plan to can BOTH Fick and Vrabs.
If you can't see that Fickell isn't the answer, they you're too much of a Fickell loyalist.
Could this be a Withers influence thing? That looked like ACC defense to me. I doubt Fickell and Vrabel are gone after this year. They're worth this kind of performance for their recruiting prowess. Vrabel may actually be the best outside of Urban himself.
Firing Withers eliminates our recruiting presence in the Carolina's. Plus he doesnt call the plays so it makes little sense to fire him. Who would be the candidates if we did fire Fickell?
Follow me @jaythesportsguy
I wondered why need 2 D coordinators last year.
Maybe Withers was Meyer's back up plan after all.
Urban Meyer used 2 DCs at Florida as well, Greg Mattison and Charlie Strong (who called the plays).
Withers always struck me as a big play kinda of guy at UNC, willing to sacrifice some yards in order to get a sack or an interception. I would be interested in seeing what kind of plays Withers will call if given the power.
I've defended Fickell a number of times here and elsewhere, and even I am very close to giving up on him.
But I don't understand the talk to keep Vrabel but not Fickell. Most of the talk is in regards to recruiting but as scarlatina pointed out, Fickell is a much better proven recruiter than Vrabel. I know there is a tendency to say the NFL notoriety will be a draw, which to some degree it will, but only so far. Not to mention the fact that Vrabel has a much stronger corp to put out there. Not that this is an excuse but Fickell has a highly injured group, that when healthy is not near the potential the DL is. No question the DL has had great moments this year, but they just got handled ... by IU's OL nonetheless. And no quick dumps excuse, there were a number of plays that took time to develop down field.
I really am trying to stay positive. I have not given up completely up on either but for me at least, tonight is the last free pass.
For what its worth though, Meyer needs to tighten up the special teams too. A very big play in the punt block, but the punt block against, the onside kick (and very possibly kickS, I don't know why they didn't notice the kicker check on and say something to the guy on the shortside just before he kicked it) and the big run back were not pretty.
all I have to say is that I felt this way after the UCF game, the defense is ridiculously bad. We have talented players but zero results thus far. That Michigan State win is looking less and less impressive the more MSU plays on. I'd give Fickell the rest of the season and unless there is vast improvement by the Michigan game then he needs to go. I wonder what his approval rating is, can't be more than 10%.
This was a classic trap game and Indiana played hard. That said, whe you put up 50, you expect to win by 3 TDs plus. We basically did, although the final score did NOT indicate that haha
I'm not trying to make excuses but our linebacker core is being held together with duct tape and bubble gum.
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men
Withers - Assistant head coach and co defensive coordinator.
Vrable - d line coach (and a pretty good d line)
What should the title of this thread be?
I read absolutely no blogs above, but if anyone was defending both as if they'll be back...don't bank on it if OSU gives up another 40 point game (even if they win again). This staff needs Coombs and Withers but not Fickel or Vrabel (or they'll be kept but Withers takes over as Def Coor.). I know Fick was the sacrificial lamb last year but this defense has good players but they're not being coached well IMHO. It shows when you can't make a simple tackle or be in the correct position. In their defense, there has been a lot of injuries at LB and other positions. However, excuses are like what??? It's time to stop making them...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Why do you conclude Vrable needs to go but not withers? Or fick but not Coombs?
What are you basing this on?
Honestly I would question why it is not the other way (as devil's advocate)
Its quite obvious that Heacock was the magic in the Silver Bullets, just like Fred Pagac before him. Fickell (and everett withers to a lesser degree) has failed miserably as D Coordinator this year. Luke had better be a recruiter extraordinaire, because the way he coordinates a defense when Heacock isn't around to fix things simply isn't good enough to keep his 750k/year job... and has got to be testing Urban Meyer's patience.
KPM10 - why do you put the blame on Fick when Withers is the co-defensive coordinator?
I'm not disagreeing but as a fan I don't see how I can blame one without the other.
KMP10 - I will disagree with you vehemently about Heacock. The magic in the Silver Bullets was Dantonio. He is the reason we won the National Title. Heacock was an average DC. We did well against bad teams and looked awful against talented ones, for the most part. That being said, he's better than what we have this year.
However, this is frickin Ohio State. There is no reason we should be ha having trouble bringing in a top-notch DC. See how the season plays out, and if we do not show any improvement, I'm sure the necessary changes will be made.
Where is Conner Crowell? He can't be any worse than anyone else out there.
Need a new Defensive Coordinator next year.
Are the current coaches good enough to be position coaches? Meyer has to determine that.
It might be the perfect time for Luke and Vrabel to go off on their own and see how they can coach at another school without the OSU advantages.
I think tha the players deserve the most blame on this one - too many missed assignments, missed tackles and lackadaisical play (maybe they read the local press?). I didn't see any Bednarik/Butkus/Thorpe/Nagurski/Outland/Lombardi contestants out there - a couple of individual plays maybe, but no consistent effort.
This may have been the worst overall effort I've seen on an OSU defense in quite some time.
The other thing you have to consider is that with one or two exceptions, maybe the players aren't as good as we all thought
Then there's the scores by IU special teams and our own special team miscues - is Meyer going to fire himself?
80 points in 2 games?
Just Fire Fuckell and be be done with it.
Is Pagac still coaching somewhere? Bring him back to Columbus. He wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed when it came to interviews, but the man bled scarlet and gray, and his defenses were aggressive and disciplined.
Honestly, I don't know what the solution is. But this defense sucks right now and I never thought I'd be saying that about a Buckeye defense. We can't expect our offense to score plus 50 a game and barely win.
We are playing our fullback at linebacker halfway through the season - that in a nutshell speaks volumes for why we are struggling defensively - regardless of who is coaching.......
Pagac is with the Vikings. That would be a great haul for Meyer.
@ causeicouldntgo43: definitely not a good sign. But why aren't linebackers like Grant and Crowell not ready? Both were highly recruited and been in the system for awhile. At some point, it's the coaching. It's frustrating to watch our defense make the same mistakes for the last two season -- little, if any improvement.
I wonder if the players respect Fickell? I mean he was their head coach last year and it was a horrible year, he got demoted this year, does he have any authority over these players anymore? Does he get their respect? Urban wouldn't have kept Fickell just because, he believed he earned the opportunity to stay, but he's not proving that right now. Maybe he needs to be demoted again or just let go. I don't know, but something isn't right. Some guys are just not good potential coaches. Maybe Fickell is a good position coach(he has had great LB corps in the past) but not a guy who can make the jump to the next level. That is possible, not everyone is a promising young assistant who become a great coordinator and head coach one day. Some just don't make it.
Withers may have the title of Co-D coordinator... but like Urban said before even one game was played "Luke will call the defense". I believe it's Fickell's show on that side of the ball. Am I right? I don't know as I'm just a fan with an opinion. It's not all on Fickell to be certain, and I know criticizing Fickell even a little bit is considered taboo to some on this site. However, when you're paid three quarters of a million dollars to make the defense go and it doesnt then you're gonna be the guy taking the heat. Again, I'm just a fan sharing an opinion, that's all. It's why this forum exists. To express and debate opinions...
And I believe that Fred Pagac is coaching in the NFL with the Vikings???
Don't know if he's the best for the job, but I'd bet money that Pagac would be here in a heartbeat if given the chance to coach in Columbus again.
None of our LB's look like they want to attack the QB! The D-line can't do it all! Our LB's need to step in and attack off of what the D-line creates and our safeties need to know where to be at all times. The whole thing is a mess but our best players are young and learning while the vets are not that good! Don't fire no one, replace some starters and reinforce COMPETITION!
Coaches coach BUT the players make plays. That said our scheme needs an overhaul; I'm not saying a full blown one from a 4-3 to a 3-4 but they could at least dial up a little pressure with a linebacker or safety up the middle or a corner blitz off the edge. Tackling remains porus with nobody wrapping up; instead leading with their head; Ty Howard and stingers anyone..?? As I said in another post; our Silver Bullets have turned into the Silver Pixies; unacceptable.
"Fate has cards that it don't want to show"
If this is the D we have next year there WON'T be a title run. Absolutely brutal!
There is no pressure! I understand Indiana has a quick throw offense but damn i don't even think there was a batted ball. Indiana was controlling the line of scrimmage.
If we are recruiting nationally, Fickell is unknown to a lot of younger players, but when Vrabel is sitting across from a recruit in his living room and has 3 superbowl rings on his hand, that will speak volumes on the program where he came from.
having said that, I think the whole staff needs another season with more of Meyers recruits to work with before we knee-jerk and fire everybody. We are 7-0 for crying out loud !
The disappointing thing to me about Fickell is that he hasn't put a stamp on the team in two years. There isn't one positive thing that the D does that a person could look at and say, oh that's what a Fickell D does. He's a young guy by coaching standards, but doesn't seem to have any new ideas. His coaching to date has been a rehash of what his elders --and betters-- have done. So, the question becomes if not Fickell then who? With the understanding that Kirby Smart isn't going anywhere,who are the rising young DCs out there that OSU could grab? And I challenge you to keep the word "pizza" out of your answer.
My favorite expericence with Fred Pagac was at tOSU football camp going into my senior year. He was going around checking on everyone in the dorms we were in. He beat down our door, one of my buddies who was a big lineman answered the door with a towel around his waist after getting out of the shower. Our room was littered with chew and gatorade bottles full of spit. He looked at my buddy who answered the door, looked in at us in the room and said, "put some clothes on creep, and pick up these damn spitters." He stared at us awkwardly for 10 seconds or so... then just walked away.
I remember doing drills with him, even during stretching that guy was intense. I loved his attitude. It was all or nothing with him. And you had to give him everthing you had at all times. I loved it. Mike Leach would think our linebackers are "zombie like" and have an "empty corpse like quality".
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
My bet if someone is leaving we ask Jon Tenuta to come back home
It may be just me....but even last year Luke Fickell had that deer in the head lights look. It is still there and I just don't see any emotion from him. I think the players are not as motivated as the offensive side of the ball, just look at the O line.
When was the last time you yelled WOW after a big hit???? Two season's ago probably.
Luke might be better off looking for a job in a smaller ventue than the shoe.
I hate to say this but I believe he's overmatched.
When was the last time you yelled WOW after a big hit???? Two season's ago probably.
Ryan Shazier on Zach Maynard against Cal, this year.
October 20th: National Kenneth Guiton Day
Bryant blew up someone last night so I'd say 15 hours ago or so.
No one needs to get fired etc after one season IMO. All the coaches on the D are new to their respective position or new to the team. They will have 8 months to talk about where they were failing in communication amongst each other or by position. It isn't just about the players on the field on the scheme. It all has to work together and that is on all the coaches and the players.
I said in another thread you can look at UF's D in 2007 when they gave up 38 points to Michigan in the Cap 1 bowl when OSU held them to 3 at the big house. The reaction from buckeye nation if that had happened would have been "fire Meyer." Chill out, enjoy winning
I don't believe for 1 second that we don't have great talent on D. Yes many are still young but at times last year, many of these same guys looked better (most of Wisconsin game last year and in several others) and you saw potential and solid play here and there. This year is horrible with obvious regression. Stupid/discipline penalties and trying to strip the ball while the guy continues running for 20 more yards drives me nuts...the running along side the ball-carrier strip works about 1 time a year but we try it almost every time a guy breaks into the secondary vs just stopping him.
I totally respect Fickell for everything he has done for the program, that being said, I've never been sold on him as a DC. He is a Heacock disciple, reiterating that "bend don't break defense." I wish we would get Fred Pugac back in there and get the silver bullets back to a defense that puts the fear of God in the oppossing offense. We hardly ever blitz, our guys are always outta place and we have absolutely no fundamentals when it comes to tackling. I'd like Vrabel to stick around because flashing three super bowl rings can't hurt with recruits, but since he's BFF with Fickell, if Fick goes so does vrabel. I'd even be ok with Fickell staying around just to recruit or be demoted to a position coach but that won't happen. Fickell is a buckeye through and through but if we want to bring that crystal ball back to Columbus, I'm afraid it will have to be with another coach calling the shots. It's obvious Urban is fed up, why wouldnt you be? We are a good defense away from being a HELL of a football team. It's not like we lack the talent on defense, it all comes down to schemes, IMO. There is NO WAY Indiana should ever put 49 points up against us. Try telling Mike Doss, AJ Hawk, or even as far back as the great Antoine Winfield (or as far back as you like, I can reference the 80's. beyond that, its all coming outta an OSU history book for me) that its ok to give up that many points as long as you win, and you'd get your head ripped off. It's too bad Chris Spielman is too involved with the Steph Spielman foundation because I'd love to see him as a defensive assistant. DEFENSE wins championshios, just remember. Ask WVU how far a stellar offense can take you towards an undefeated season. This problem has to be fixed and I'm sure Urban will take care of the problem, even if its shaking up his defensive staff and ruffling some feathers of the buckeye faithful. Do we want to continue to be faithful to a guy who bleeds Scarler and Gray or do we want to win championships? Would be nice to have both, but its becoming obvious that won't be the case. I'll always respect Fickell and will never boo him, but he isn't going to have our D ready for the promised land next year and beyond. It's not a lack of talent folks...perhaps a lack of depth i.e. at LB, but the athletes are there. We just need coaches to put them in the right spot! Go Bucks!
Who would be replacement candidates?
Would we lose any recruits?
"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."
So who is the super defensive coordinator we replace all of our fired staff with? Only like 4 teams have an elite defense this season and I'm willing to bet a lot of that is players, not scheme. Keep our guys.
Take a look at our CURRENT linebacker depth chart and explain to me how we're supposed to stop opposing offenses - Our defensive scheme is designed for linebackers to make the plays.
Currently, our linebacking corp is 1) A wildly talented and yet wildly inconsistent playmaker (Shazier), 2) A not-athletic-enough Senior who has not been able to break through into the lineup until now (Klein), 3) a SENIOR FULLBACK (Boren) and 4) a true freshman who is still learning the system (Perry).
I guess what I'm saying is that there's only SO MUCH coaches can do scheme-wise when your linebackers are this poor.
Zach Boren and Storm Klein are physical equals in appearance. Put them in the same number and from their builds it would be hard to tell them apart. Physical tools as well it seems. So alternating them would provide a fresh linebacker....I guess? Confusing as to what the desired effect is we're looking for there. Both give great effort.
We are half way through the season. Let's just see what the second half brings, hopefully they surprise all of us and show more improvement than they have thus far.
I'm not suggesting we fire the entire staff...I'm just not sure Fickell is the right guy as a DC. I like what I'm seeing out of Coombs and Vrabel. On the LB depth, am I the only person who thinks that Christian Bryant is worth a look at linebacker? He a great run stopper and can really lay the wood. And why isn't Curtis Grant sliding over to OLB? Less of a mental game than at Mike, but I guess if he was the right guy the coaches would play him. Hope one of these young guys pan out...it's been a few seasons without a stellar linebacker in Cbus
The LBers we have now can't get off of opposing OL blocks, doubt a 200lb safety would fair any better.
Pagac coaching question above:
On January 15, 2012, Fred Pagac was removed as defensive coordinator for the Minnesota Vikings but remained with the team, returning to his former position as linebackers coach.
He is 60 years old. (dob: April 26, 1952)
I agree. He's just too small to take on blocks.
Re Jon Tenuta comment above.
How many times has Tenuta been hired to fix a broken defense to no avail. Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, NC State. This guy is no longer considered an elite DC.
Lets also remember they got points off of the two worst replay calls in the history of retardism
"Winter is coming" - Urban Meyer
I really can't understand why everyone is calling for the heads of coaches, and here's why:
1. The defense was bad last year. Not awful, but bad. We didn't complain as much about it because the offense was 10x worse and we were going through some really bad stuff so it was understandable.
2. From #1, no one new is on defense. What did people expect? That the same guys that were mediocre to bad last year were suddenly going to be great? That doesn't happen. We don't have the talent that we are used to in the back seven. Some recruits didn't pan out, and some guys just aren't playing their best ball. It's a talent issue.
3. We have been obliterated by injuries and depth issues (which are really linked when you think for 5 seconds). How many guys on our defense have missed games from injury or are playing injured? Everyone but Goebel, Hankins, and Klein by my count. 8 guys missing time or playing hurt is not good for any defense.
4. Why are we calling specifically for Fickel/Vrabel? Is it because Fickell is in charge of defense and Vrabel coaches linebackers? Let's harken back to the previous three points. Those points are independent of coach skill. Now let's add this new point- which unit is getting burned the worst? Most people are going to say the secondary, and yet no one is putting blame on Coach Coombs (I did see it mentioned in 5 things: Indiana, but that's it). Is this because he is a Meyer guy? Do we just want to blame Fick and Vrabel because they are part of the old guard?
Do we just want to blame Fick and Vrabel because they are part of the old guard?
Do we just want to blame Fick and Vrabel because they are part of the old guard?
This is exactly why these guys are calling for Fickell's head. Someone home-grown isn't good enough for some reason.
IMO, if we had one, just one elite LB (like Spielman, Katzenmoyer, or Hawk) and one elite SS/CB (like Winfield, Doss, or Jenkins) this would be a very good defense. Not a NC-caliber one. But Indiana wouldn't have gotten out of the teens against that defense. Shazier and Roby show hints of greatness but they aren't there yet.
All of the guys with both physical and mental abilities on this defense are on the DL. Teams that have offenses built to spread out defenses and make plays thru the air -- this is a defense that they can exploit. Good coaches are going attack, attack, and then attack some more.
So who's left on our schedule that can do that. Not Wisconsin. Not Penn State. I can only think of Purdue and Michigan. And Denard can't throw a ball to save his life. And BTW both games are at home.
Anyone have contact with fickell so I can show him this, he was freakin' on this team. See how the D dictates what the offense does to meet it's strengths? See the outside tackles in space? See how they grab players legs on special teams and wrap em up. Come on Fickell, you freakin' played on one of OSU's best defenses in the history of the Buckeye nation!
NO MORE FREAKIN' PREVENT DEFENSE, PLEASE!
GO BUCKS!!! URBAN RENEWAL!
Ryan Shazier on Zach Maynard against Cal, this year.
Skip to 2:18, unless you want to watch Brendan Bigelow shred our D. I saw enough of that play on Spots Center and in my nightmares...
Guys, what I am trying to figure out is whether it is Fickell or the players. The DB's are not playing in position, and Fickell doens't coach them. Where is the breakdown? That is what Meyer has to figure out. Is it actualyl bad play calling? Or guys not getting the scheme?
Our D is definitely built for Downhill teams and Purdue can call their offense spread all they want but they are still pretty downhill.
Shazier + Grant = a great future on D for our Buckeye's.
Roby = a bright spot for our D.
Noah Spence + Adolphus Washington + Michael Bennet = Future Beasts up front.
I think we have some pieces just the full puzzle won't be there until next year and the year after that.
I assume you mean Doran Grant right?
I have to disagree with you on Grant. I think he is the single least-talented member of the team.
EDIT: I'm talking about Curtis Grant.
OK BR, I knew what you meant, but unless he becomes the most improved player on the team he won't be involved in a great future IMHO. He looks the part, but that's about as far as it goes to this stage.
I thought Luke coached the Linebackers & Vrable the "D" line. Yes I would prefer to see more pressure coming from "D" line but all in all are ok, especially with the injuries to Simon & others. My concern is when UFM says he needs to get more involved with the defense. This is exactly what he did not want to do. Once UFM gets involved or at least my understanding is what created some of his health issues. I know there is more to that, but it was one of the reasons. I just don't understand why the highly regarded recruits @ linebacker are replaced by Zach Boren. I question the Linebackers Coach for preparing these recruits. How can they not play? I understand they are freshman & sophomores' but it still baffles me.
Rested Fickle and let Withers to assume call playing schemes. If Withers also fails then I am in agreement with CPLunk that we hire Bob Diaco, or other defensive minded coach.
I like Fickell, but I think at this time he is overmatched. Tress was high on him, so there's something there. He might need to figure out his style and what works at a smaller school. I thought the deer in the headlights look from last year would be gone; but it's not. With that said, I cannot fully lay the blame for a player "not getting it" on the coach. Today we (myself included) fall in love with the physical gifts, we tend to forget about the mental side (instincts) of the game. The problem is you can't measure instincts, so you have to recruit that 5 star and hope his speed in high school wasn't hiding his lack of instincts.
C. Grant came in highly recruited with the pyhsical tools, but cannot pick up the game. That is not a slam on him; it's just the way it is. I remember watching M. D'Andrea, desparately wanting himt to live up to his bill, but many a time choosing the wrong hole to hit. It is very hard to teach the "insticts" that slower guys like Speilman, Hawk, and Wilhelm had. Ideally, you want the player to have both the physical tools with the "instincts" but hey, Lawrence Taylor doesn't come around every day.
Fickell should apply for a Pizza Delivery job, I think he can tackle that.
AJ Hawk is not slow.
6'1 245 runs a 4.59 - we should all be so slow
You guys are like women, forever changing your mind.
Seriously, this past summer you all were waxing eloquent about what a 'scarlet and gray' man Fick was. What a great coach, took one for the team, it was great Meyer retained him. He's our guy, what a loyal person he is. We're glad he's here. blah blah blah
We're 7-0 and have a defense that is decimated with injuries. And yet you guys are ready to throw him under the bus. Seriously, I hope none of you run the business where I work.
You do realize we've only had our actual starting defense (based on the depth chart) all on the field at the same time for a couple of quarters?
This is less about coaching and more about how bare the cupboard was left for Meyer in the linebacking corps.
My gosh, we've got our fullback playing lb, does that tell you ANYTHING about our depth?
You are quick to lump everyone here together in their beliefs. Most here are looking at the fact that a decent defense can be had by coaching along with the talent we do have. We are always elite in talent compared to anyone else in the B1G. In saying we are without enough talent to field a decent defense is saying every other defense in the B1G will be worse than ours. Coaching matters and ours seem to be dropping the ball. Pointing that out is due to concern and wanting greatness. Ever hear Spielman talk? Ask him to be satisfied with mediocrity. You will get a lecture on greatness.
Trig, if I could rec your comment above more than once, I would.
Lougroza, I would also imagine Spielman has much respect for the difficulty in coaching players to their maximum potential. See his record as HC of the Columbus Destroyers (2-15).
IOW, it's not as easy as you think.
I wonder if Coach would consider Mike Stoops again? I think Stoops decided against coming on staff due to the co-defensive coordinator designation. If Fickell and Withers don't get it figured out, Urban will one way or another. I assure you all...
Withers is Urban's guy. It seemed like a good idea at the time to keep Fickell on, and we will always be grateful for him stepping into the meat grinder that was last year. My guess is that Meyer "encourages" Fickell to take a HC job at a smaller school next year to build his resume, and Withers assumes full responsibility for the D.
NC_Buckeye, Never once did I say it was easy. To not expect improvement is to accept mediocrity. It is not acceptable in any sport that I know of and especially not at OSU with all of its football tradition. In my response concerning Spielman the point was his drive to excel and improve, no excuses. His play was what I was referring to, not his coaching resume. Yes we are 7-0 and yes folks expect much. But why wouldn't they expect a defense that could keep opponents under 30 points a game? In speaking of groups in general and including phrases of "everyone here thinks this" as Trig noted is not accurate. There are points of view that go in various directions concerning the same basic points of interest that are indeed on point. And again never once did I say it was an easy task.
osu has freshman talent on defense, but freshman are inexperienced, some of the experienced players on defense are banged up and cant play or are playing hurt. and imo, the talent level is not what it use to be. so the answer according to the fickell haters, is fire fickell. lets see it is fickell who is on the field and misses tackles. it is fickell who is on the field and is the one out of position. it is fickell who drops sure interceptions. yeah fickell haters, lets blame the poor defense on fickell. makes sense to me. quite frankly, since next year counts a lot more than this year does, i dont understand why the freshman arent playing more, so they can make mistakes in a real game and learn how to play. sure i want the buckeyes to win every game, even if it means little this year in regards to championships and bowl games. but i would rather see the freshmen play now a few plays a game here and there and start to learn how to play, that way come next year they have more than a clue. but first lets blame everything on fickell. oh and by the way 7 wins and no losses sure sounds good to me. a lot better than my fiancees uk wildcats.
The D had a lot of problems this game. NO PRESSURE AT ALL UP FRONT! After the first 3 games I thought it was the defensive scheme, but then it seemed to change. I still just think it is inexperience. How many times have we had people to the ball and not make a play? For the most part this year the D-line has been a dissappointment. We beat Miami in the NC game because we could bring pressure every play without having too blitz much. When is the last time we have been able to do that? I really thought Indiana's O-line got a good surge and controlled us up front.
Guys the differents is the play calling and the coach is affraid the young guys can not play aggeressively down hill he is tring to keep them from making mistakes by playing that crappy bind but don't break crap. When he let the D go agres. against NEB they where hard to deal with. People score when we play bind but don't break cause the D is in react mode instead of rip there head of mode. I have always been against prevent and bind but don't break D teams that play this have areal tendence to play alot of close games and have not shutouts.
One thing is for sure that talent is not the problem you do have to coach the kids up to speed tho, but there is something that can be said for the starting full back being on the field as a LB that is he was REC here as a LB then switched to FB and with only a few days of practice he did pretty good. the young guys in the LB core need to step it up so that the rest of the D does not look so bad.
My last piont is that Mr. Fickel needs to go back to caoching the LB's more then play calling cause that is what really hurting the D is the lack of LB play RS can not run all over the fields now that sabino is out to stop everything. Coach up the younger guys and boren and let Withers call the D.
Look it is really easy to not have to Blitz when you have LB's that can play and do what is asked of them. When the LB's are out of position then the O-line gets to double team the D-line. The LB's got to step up there play so the O-line has to account for them, right now they only account for RS he is the only LB they look for. Boren is a short trem fix but the underclassmen at LB have to step it up.
Urban has kept the DC for at least the first year at every new job. I think it is a difference of styles. Urban is more fast paced, up tempo; while Fickell is more conservative, keep everything in front of you. Both styles can be very effective; but not at the same time. If the old regime doesn't buy in, then something has to (and in Urban's case will) give.
I have also noticed that whatever Urban complains about in the post game interview gets immediately addressed in the very next game. One week it's pressure from the D-line, the next it's our DB's in soft coverage; so the coaches seem to be on 2 different pages leading up to the game (scheme-wise).
Too many times Fickell has looked confused or puzzled on the sideline. This guy was a multi-time state champ in wrestling (I think 4 time) and 4 year starter at OSU, so you know he's a warrior. Once he regains his confidence and intensity he will be fine; I just don't know it if will happen at OSU.
LouGroza, I also expect the Buckeyes to have a stout defense on a yearly basis. But this defense is what it is. Look at this list of starters and guys who have seen playing time in the defensive backfield:
12 Grant, Doran CB SO
7 Howard, Travis CB SR
24 Reeves, Armani CB FR
4 Barnett, C.J. DB JR
30 Bogard, Devan DB FR
3 Brown, Corey DB JR
2 Bryant, Christian DB JR
19 Johnson, Orhian DB SR
18 Murray, Najee DB FR
23 Powell, Tyvis DB FR
1 Roby, Bradley DB SO
48 Burger, Joe LB FR
14 Grant, Curtis LB SO
32 Klein, Storm LB SR
34 Marcus, Jamal LB FR
6 Sabino, Etienne LB SR
10 Shazier, Ryan LB SO
5 Williams, Camren LB FR
(To be fair, I'm sure some of the FR haven't seen any playing time. But I included them so we have an idea as to depth.)
How many of these guys have been injured? How many of these guys are dropping interceptions? How many are trying to strip ball carriers instead of just tackling? How many are out of position on any given pass play? How many are flying to the ball carrier/receivers to make a big hit instead of proper form tackling and establishing angles?
With the exception of injuries, all of these problems are mental not physical problems. And in most cases, the upperclassmen are the worst offenders. Do you honestly believe the coaches aren't instructing them on their deficiencies after each game?
What I'm saying is instead of throwing the D coaches under the bus. Let's admit that this year there's a personnel problem and let the D coaches try to deal with it schematically. And part of that is that us fans (and maybe Meyer too) must alter our expectations. Maybe we are going to have to accept that the offense is going to have to score a shit-ton of points to keep us in the remaining games. Just for this year.
Is that something I'm willing to accept as a trait of this team going forward? Obviously no. But for this year. Reality is reality.
I'm not saying that the D coaches can or should just give up on these guys. But you can't fix a player's lack of instinct or zoning out mentally on plays (at least not in the limited practice time the coaching staff has in season... and sometimes maybe never). You can accept what you have right now and try to coach around it. To do otherwise, is setting yourself up for failure.
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