First - let me be clear - I think Roby is extremely talented and based on the way he's been talked about, OSU's next shutdown corner first round NFL prospect in the mold of Springs, Winfield, Clement, etc.
But Ross pointed out today in his defensive breakdown that coverage (not as much pass rush) is the problem. On two plays (including the 3rd & 21 play) Roby jumped the post route rather than staying with the outside man (or his deep third). I may be wrong here, but I believe he made a similar coverage mistake in week 1 vs. Miami.
Question: WHAT do you think is his problem? Example: 3rd & 21 playing a deep third - NOT a complex coverage at all. I played it in middle school. You cover the deepest man in your third of the field.
Urban has said Roby "gets bored." Why? Because he's not challenged, apparently. This week Urban has said he'll need to play grown man football against Cal's receiver. The problem I see is that Urban may not be willing (from what we've seen) to bench Roby and put Doran Grant in (they've already said he's capable of starting). Look, I think this would be temporary - but Roby needs to get the message that we expect our players to keep their head in the game, play like their hair is on fire, and go hard for 4-6 seconds. Talent needs to be disciplined, focused to be championship.
I think it would do Roby some good to get benched for a series or a quarter. If focus is indeed his problem, how else will he learn? Accountability demands action. If you don't discipline kids after you threaten to punish them, they'll never take you seriously as a parent. Also - the others kids in the house are watching to see if you're consistent or play favorites, so to speak. Nip the problem in the bud before it causes more problems.
Maybe he's getting accountability in practice somehow, but if he keeps blowing simple coverages because he's bored, then maybe he's got some other issues. And I'm no hater - I'm rooting for the kid to reach his potential, which is huge.
Curious as to what you all think.
Go Bucks.
the GREAT ones can adjust... right now Roby is potential, has shown signs of brilliance but the legendary corners are consistently stellar... I think once he stops worrying about being a star and just goes out and plays like one, then we will see him elevate his game to the level where he should be.
Agree with all of your premises...clearly a guy who read his press clippings and believed them. That being said, still think he's our best corner and by the end of the season, we will all know why and not remember these first few games. Roby is a GAMER!
Reminds me of a guy that plays CB for my alma mater, NC State. Amerson is another one who saw his name in the news, became complacent, then got posterized at least 2-3 times on national TV against the Volunteers. Like Roby, I guess he was too comfortable with the notion he's the best on the team at his position and one of the best in the nation and figured he didn't have to "earn" it anymore. But like Roby, I suspect he had his eyes opened with the bad game he had, and will turn it around quickly.
Champions Bleed Scarlet & Gray
^Amerson was insane last year, 13 INTs. All my friends at NC State raved about him, and the first time I watched him play he was burned twice by Tennessee for TDs.
Zone Coverage is "Boring" to a GREAT CB. Its no excuse, but I can see how he can have blown coverages, because they aren't throwing the ball his way, giving him less opportunity to make a play. Which leads to him taking un-necessary chances such as jumping routes. I'm sure he'll be locked in and focused because Cal is bringing a type flight 1st round NFL talent at WR. I still feel the lack of pass rush is killing the 2ndary, and will continue to hinder the defense as a whole until the problem is resolved. I just want to see a consistent 4 DL rush, instead of 3. I think the tape is out, and the 3 step drops, and quick passes will continue. So I say lets get aggresive, lets play some press man, lets blitz, get the leashes off these boys, and see what they can really do!
Agree with all of your points, but lets not forget he is a RS Sophomore. There is plenty of room to mature on the field.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
Your honestly asking this question and believe there is an issue regarding accountability? I don't we have an issue with Kerry Combs and Urban Meyer putting the best talent on the field and playing favorites, this isn't the previous administration.
I don't know what his issue is, but I do like your coaching philosophy. These guys have been "the man" as long as they can remember, getting all sorts of special treatment. Some tough love is probably needed to let them know they aren't the alpha dogs on this team and that they need to work to truly excel at this level and beyond.
Buckinbama: read Ross Fulton's article breaking down the defense. We consistently used a 4 man rush.
kind of think coach urban knows what to do. he is the expert.
I remember the play you are talking about, but I dont believe it was Roby's responsibility so to speak. After the play was over he turned to the safety and yelled at him and repeatedly showed him the hand single he gave the safety. I believe what he tried to do was pass him off so he could jump the route. You have to let your top guys be play makers. You just hope everyone else around him does also so it doesnt go for a huge gain if he guesses wrong!
So we're going to bench our best cover corner the weekend we play probably the best WR we'll see all year?
The thoughts on this board are beginning to become frightening. Down with Simon and Hankins, in with Spence and Washington! Rod Smith should just become water boy!
If Roby is going to make mistakes, let him make them this year as opposed to next, so he has an entire year to watch the film and make his game better. Him being benched means he may not be able to see his problems in film study, but why should that matter? Obviously Doran Grant is better!
Some good thoughts here, thjanks for those. Things to keep in mind, like Roby being young, learning on the job, this year being a throwaway year. All valid.
But considering I repeatedly said that I like Roby & that he has talent but he's not producing in key situations - that hardly seems like "a frightening thought" Buckeye06. Maybe you didn't read the whole of my original post, or even what Ross posted yesterday in his defensive breakdown. The problem is the back seven being out of position and taking bad angles. It seems to me that my question isn't out of the ordinary when the experts are pointing to the same problem. Help me see how that is frightening, for I'm not sure that it really is. Today's Round Table with the experts said the same thing. So, it's not just my opinion that the guy is messing up repeatedly on simple assignments. It's not talent, it's mental toughness.
Benching someone for a couple plays or series in games we already had won might do some good to send a message, especially if it's sending a message about what separates the men from the boys - not talent - but leadership, discipline, commitment to excellence.
Everyone who's played sports and doesn't listen to a coach repeatedly, gets lazy/bored, misses simple assignments gets benched - sometimes for a series, sometimes for a quarter or period, and sometimes for a game. Pretty standard fair when the problem is mental laziness.
My question is more about Meyer's consitency in his own leadership principles.
Urban says he wants guys to play "grown man football" and play "with hair on fire" and go "4-6 seconds of relentless effort" BUT then he says, almost non-chalantly, more than once - that Roby gets bored back there and that's leading to mental lapse? Getting bored in simple cover three is unacceptbale.
Urban says guys have to compete, to produce, or they'll find someone else who will - his "next man up" and "this is Ohio State we have talent" as it were. Roby gets beat 3 times (trying to jump the post pattern and not playing his assignment). He goes on to point out the d-backs aren't listening to the full play call and that's part of the reason for the failure. How is this acceptable - those are mental discipline issues, not talent issues. Find someone who can pay attention.
We've been told Roby is our best corner - maybe he has that talent potential - simply put, though - if you keep getting beat in simple cover three, potential doesn't matter - production does. That's what competition is about. You're not the best until you produce like the best produce. Doran Grant is considered as good as a #1 corner - maybe not as physically talented as Roby, but if he is slightly less talented physically yet mentally tough, disciplined, and "not bored" in the backfield - it wouldn't hurt to play him. He played well in relief of T.Howard this week.
Point being - Urbs can talk about discipline, accountability, fire, toughness, competition all he wants. Practices seem to be about that - "let the best man win" as it should be in competitive football. I guess I thought that Roby find himself watching on the sideline for a few series, standing next to Coombs or Urbs - getting an earful about how to play the cover 3.
You win with people.
agree with buckeye06, roby is young and next year is more important than this year. might be a bit too many armchair coaches here, me thinks.
Kinda the point of the forum though, BUCKEYE STU... it's essentialy what gives life to fandom (and thus the industry) of NCAA football. It's great to be a a Buckey fan. This whole website is dedicated to "arm chair" coaches. Some of them are actual coaches. Some of them are fantasic analysts of the game (Ross). Some are just fans making observations.
So I'm not sure how agreeing with Urban, Ross, the roundtable - and the other coaches on this site, plus the people who've played the game is wrong and/or frightening...so help me out here.
I've put up my opinion surrounded by a collection of factual statements made by the head coach himself as well as the analysts. I didn't do this definitavely - but asking for input about some specific things, like Urban's method of "correcting" a problem or seeking to find consistency in his methodology.
As a personal backstory - my FB Coach was a Woody Hayes disciple. He preached the same stuff Urbs is saying - about competition, focus, etc. I vivdly remember a game my senior year where he THOUGHT I missed a block on a sweep. I didn't, the tight end did. Didn't matter. He was upset that I blew a simple assignment (as a senior). Guess what happened? I got benched until halftime, when the TE told him it wasn't my fault. I've been benched in basketball for not covering my zone correct in the 2-3.
Coaches routinely bench players for short periods of time to get them to focus/listen/man up. Roby is young, but this is his third year of college FB. Cover three is simple.
I understand if someone says other motivational techniques are being applied. People coach differently. Kids are different. I thought Urban would be more no-nonsense, cut/dry in his approach (like he was when Stoney/Mewhort/Klein got busted).
But, I really don't see how my opinion that this might get Roby to "not be bored" or lazy in coverage is a fringe idea. Really, I'm seeking to understand the logic in that. If I've misunderstood you or buckeye06, let me know how.
You win with people.
Roby will be fine this year and will be a great CB...if he comes back next year.
As far as coverages being the reason for lack of sacks...is FALSE. Four man rush is a reason for quicker 3 and 4 step drops that UCF and Miami OH used. The defense must start to blitz more...I don't understand lack of this. Makes little sense unless they're trying not too show much...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
^You won't find it as an explanatory variable, but coverage schemes do lead to fewer sacks. When Lbs and Dbs are in coverage packages like we've been running, those creative blitz packages don't happen. Also, when Hankins drops back, it speaks for itself.
I understand, people like to see sacks, but I don't think it should warrant criticism until it shows that it truly doesn't work. The schemes at least appear to be forcing more turnovers, which are always preferable to three and outs. The big plays aren't due to lack of pressure, but blown coverage. Maybe when we play a more proficient offense, we'll see a problem, but for now, I don't have complaints about the D.
Edit: DLine, I should say. Lbs and Dbs need improvement.
Overreaction to a mistake in a game that wasn't close.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
@SHAWNEEBUCK: EXCUSE ME FOR AGREEING WITH BUCKEYE06. sorry if i upset you. tell you what, you seem quite upset about roby and you may very well have some great ideas. here is what you might want to do? call coach urban and discusss with him your displeasure and your ideas. yeah do that. go two time national champion coach SHAWNEEBUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! go tell urban how you feel.
Didn't say I was upset, buckeyestu. Said I was confused. I don't mind disagreement. That's what the forum is for. Not claiming to be Urban. I agree with the man's own critique about Roby! In his own words Roby is NOT great because he takes plays off mentally. I don't want him thrown off the team. Heck, I don't know what to do to make him not repeat the same mistakes he's made in the first two games. That's why I asked what people thought. A number of people actually responded to those points.
I was interested in the dialogue and if anyone else wondered the same thing. I guess I was looking for specific dialogue about coaching and motivation. I didn't care that you disagreed, again or that buckeye06 disagreed. Your points about Roby's youth are good to remember. I brought them up in my original post. Kid is amazingly talented. His mental lapses are holding him back.
I just don't understand why it seems that needed to become personal by saying my thoughts were fringe or saying we shouldn't be armchair coaches. Thats not dialogue about that issue that everyone recognizes is a problem, that's attacking me for wondering why Urban hasn't done what every coach I've ever had has done... Get a players attention by making someone take time on the bench for a series or a quarter.
So, your agreeing with buckeye06 that Urban doesn't need to do anything in the "benching" Roby to get his attention/teach him is not a problem for me. The problem that confuses me is what seems to be a demeaning response towards me (like I'm insane for posing the question)...which I don't think is out of the order for coaching/sports. That's my confusion & point of contention.
As I said: I like Roby and i'm rooting for him to be Shawn Springs... but, HOW would you motivate him? You know, if not by benching, how would you get him to focus like the great ones Urban talked about?
You win with people.
Heres a good article from the Latern re: Roby...
http://www.thelantern.com/sports/ohio-state-s-bradley-roby-ready-for-pri...
You win with people.
BUCK-I8... Agree with your assessment. The Dline is solid, it really does look like the coaches WANTED to force INTs. We have 5 already...could have a couple more. Maybe that's working. The back seven are green. They are out of position. Still, it's seems to be a noticeable philosophy change. We want turnovers. 3 & 21/ big plays we're blown coverages. Might have helped if the QB was under some more threat from the rush on those. That seemed to be cause for Urbans anger. Until I read Ross' article, I have to admit it seemed we rushed three a lot. Surprised how much we actually rushed four.
You win with people.
I just don't see bigtime college programs benching their best cover corner during the season outside of rule breaking. I don't think that's the best way to teach a guy who was told the whole offseason to be more aggressive so now he's trying to jump routes. I feel the best way is for him to make the mistakes in games that we are going to win so he doesn't make the same mistakes later in the year to teams we may lose to. If it's a motivation thing benching may be the worst thing to do as well, who knows
I wasn't saying you alone were going over the top; I was more referring to a lot of the chatter around here about how the sky is falling when we're 2-0 and have won both games convincingly. We have a new system and a new coaching staff; there are going to be huge changes and huge gains against this D. Fickell has never been THE man as DC and he's working with a lot of new faces on that side of the ball.
Thanks for that explanation buckeye06. Good point... May not be the best motivational technique for Roby. I agree that this is a new team, learning through mistakes when the stakes are low makes sense. My thoughts were similar... We had those games won, I didn't think it would hurt our chances at victory to sit him for a series to get his focus back. I was thinking that focus might come in handy when the games mattered in the big ten season and we needed Roby at 100%. But learning from mistakes in games we dominated is a good tactic too. Roby seemed much more focused today, fwiw.
You win with people.
sure glad urban is the coach, roby looked accountable today. bench roby for a series or quarter. that is just short of lunacy.
He did come out for a series buckeyestu, and Doran Grant played great. Albeit not as punishment but because he was hurt.
Disagree that benching as a tactic for coaches is lunacy. Storm Klein replaced Curtis Grant in the first half after he had a terrible series, so he got benched but started again after halftime. So it does happen, which in my estimation renders it as a normal tactic, not lunacy. And that was my point to begin with.
I'm not against Roby and it looks like the coaches got his mind right this week. So good for the coaches and Roby. As Urban said... Roby won't be great until he brings that kind of focus all the time.
We will just have to agree to disagree with benching a "bored" player "briefly" to get his mind right as a coaching "lunacy." Perhaps you and I use that word differently.
You win with people.
after 3 games roby is ranked in the top 20 in passes broken up. how is that for accountability. and you cant break up passes if one is benched in order to send a message as if he is a little child.
Buckeyestu,
I am not sure you read my initial post or any subsequent post completely.
That Roby needs accountability was not my opinion, it was based on these facts:
1) Urban Meyers comments about Roby's boredom/laziness. The head coach said it. Not me, UFM. He said Roby needed to play grown man football, not take plays off mentally, or he wouldn't be considered great. Good, not great.
2) the resident expert on football coverages, Ross Fulton, pointed out how Roby playing simple cover three, kept blowing the coverage. As in more than once. Leading to big plays against our back 7.
3) Coaches at all levels sit players on the bench if Rey fail to execute, or produce. This is nothing new. It's not treating someone as if they are a child. They do it at OSU (Curtis Grant) they do it in the NFL. They also do it in Pee Wee football. Coaches do this in all sports.
Ive asked before and I still haven't received an actual answer from you. Why is this an "insane" tactic that should never be considered? Given what I've staed above based on experts, not my own observation. It doesn't seem at all "ridiculous." doesn't mean that's t only way (as I stated above). Please, explain to me how all the coaches that usetemporary benching (Urban, OSU, NFL, etc.) are "insane" for doing so? That is the answer that I seek from you.
I really don't think you're hearing what I've said. I like Roby. I hope he continues to prodce and live up to the hype and be the next great OSU corner. But I'm talking about mental toughness/discipline that was not fully present. As Urban said, That's what makes players great, what separates men from boys. That doesnt make me anti-Roby, othe contrary... I want him to be the best, and he is accountable to the coaches daily for that. I'm glad he didn't blow cover three again this week. Guess he learned in practice. Good for him.
You win with people.
@shawneebuck: in your original post, you asked what is robys' problem, and that you said "the problem i see is that urban may not be willing to bench roby"! that is your opinion and your idea, and you asked the question, okay? i have no problem with anyone being benched, if THE COACH thinks that is what HE needs to do. in robys' case, i disagree with him needing benched, sorry if that goes against your opinion. And what coach urban thinks needs to be done, is his call, not mine, not yours. think in this case if i am not mistaken, urban more or less told roby he needs to play like a man. and the past game, roby was good. with robys' speed i feel it is borderline lunacy to have him off the field. in fact if he can even catch a pass, he might be a good one to let play some offense. that is my opinion. i also feel most people learn best by doing, not by watching. you have your opinion and i have mine, and neither of us will change our opinion. oh and roby played with an injury from late 3rd quarter? speed and heart needs to be on the field, not on the bench to be taught a lesson, imo.