Don't get me wrong, I'm almost always on the side of: "It's the Defense's job to stop them" argument, BUT, this is a service academy. I don't like seeing a team run the score up on a Navy, Army, or Air Force team.
Notre Dame had 43 points, so they punched one more in at the end because 50 is a nice round number. With :39 seconds left --- take a knee when you're playing against kids in the service academy. With :39 seconds left --- it's the norm to take the knee.
I think it's a classless move by Brian Kelly, but I'm not surprised.
What difference does it make if they're in a service academy? They chose to play college football, just because they chose to attend a service academy, doesn't mean they should be treated any differently than any other college football athlete...
...I disagree, but, to each his own. It does make a difference to me. It just doesn't feel right -- seeing that happen in the final minute. The difference is the guys on the Navy team go on and after football, many of them lay their life on the line. Other teams don't. My opinion is when the game is out of hand, you don't do that.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
See I have a problem with that. They do that voluntarily, yes it's noble, but that doesn't mean you should treat them any differently. If I were a service academy player, and I witnessed a team doing that, I'd be pissed. To me, the best form of respect is to give your opposition the best you've got, on every down for four quarters.
I agree with that last part, but, sometimes I feel like it's not right when you're trying to make a statement (i.e. going from 43 to 50), and it's 39 seconds. If it were 3 minutes left in the game -- I'd say go head and run it in, but with 39 seconds, you can take a knee.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Notre Dame and Navy have been playing for eons. If it was Ohio State, I'd probably think the same way, that you should go Nick-Saban-against-Paterno-style like last year, but their relationship is unique. I don't think the same sensitivity is needed in this case. Don't forget, ND dropped 3 of 5 to Navy over the last few, and laid 56 on them last year. I don't think this is a big deal.
Screw-em, football is football. Nobody chose their school for them, or their course in life. They were not drafted. As a matter of fact, those who were drafted and served valiantly deserve even more respect than career milatarists. Short of the draft, the military is a career choice, plain and simple. And for most not a bad career either.
Were the backups in the game for ND when they scored?
I don't care who is playing who, you take a knee with 38 seconds left!! It's called winning with class. Don't gimme that "it's the defense's job to stop them" I'm sure the towel was already thrown in! That stuff will come back to get you Brian Kelly! Perhaps the Irish were still mad because Navy took 3 of the previous 5!!!
I think we are reading WAY too much into this. Football is football....unless you are calling timeouts to stop the clock, or running trick plays to get into the endzone it's fair game. EVERY school, even OSU, has scored(or not taken a knee) in blowouts with under a minute to play. It's not like they had the starters in and had the ball at the one. This was a thrid/fourth string kid who ran it in from 9 yards out. Some ppl on here knit pick at every little thing certain teams do, yet overlook the fact that others teams do the same thing.
comparing apples & oranges, Cincy --- this was a 43-7 game with 38 seconds left...and it was against a service academy, (not Miami of Ohio)...Robby Thoma isn't exactly a 4th string guy for ND, either
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
He's actually more like 5th string. Wood, Riddick, Atkinson, McDaniel, then Thoma. I understand your feeling towards the service academies, and if this was a blatant situation where the score was CLEARLY being ran up I would agree. But you simply cannot throw blame at ND for calling a running play from the 9 yard line with 3-5th stringers in the game.
oh, I thought he was WR and not a RB...he started (at WR) last year after a few guys were injured
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
OSU scored with :44 left to go up 56-10 on Miami yesterday... I don't remember seeing anyone on here upset about that. While a Freshman, Bri'onte Dunn was 2nd on the Depth Chart (technically he'll be 3rd once Hall is healthy). So I guess the only real issue here is the fact that it was against Navy. Personally, as a competitor I feel it's more disrespectful and more of a slap in the face when a team takes a knee inside the 10 yard line instead of running a play. Says we don't think you're able to stop us, so we'll just stop ourselves for you.
^Exactly.
@Bucks43201. Why does it make a difference to you that it was Navy and not Miami? Explain please.
Navy was an embarassment, maybe next time they should send a real team in order to put on a real show. It's only ND after all.
Doesn't matter who the team is, but running up the score is a pretty douche move on Kelly's part. For some reason, I think that guy has a lot of pent up anger.
Not here to troll...Go Blue
@SCHOOEY --- I think I explained that if you read the original thread: it's a service academy team. They have a little bit of trouble fielding a solid team because of the requirement obligations to their country. You say: "Navy was an embarassment", but, I'd say the real embrassment is Brian "Beetface" Kelly. He is a d-bag extraordinaire. And, like I said before --- I have no trouble if its a situation where you don't normally take a knee, i.e. 2:36 left in the game. But, with :39 seconds left -- the majority of teams take the knee. That is the difference.
To anybody that says it's more disrespectful to not try -- I agree! But, there is a difference between "taking it easy" during the game when there is enough time to run plays vs. under a minute when most teams normally get in the Victory Formation. Do you really think that in that situation, with :39 seconds left, taking a knee is disprectful? Hell no. Punching it in with :39 seconds left to get to 50 is bush league. My point, again, is that you can take a knee with :39 seconds left. It's standard operating procedure when you're playing any team, you would think that would be s.o.p. especially against a service academy team.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
No offense, but if it's standard operating procedure to go into the victory formation under a minute against ANY team then why no outrage at Meyer and OSU, as opposed to Kelly?
You're right -- it is S.O.P. to go into the Genuflect Formation, and to your point --- maybe that was a little bit excessive of Meyer, but it was a different situation because it's a service academy team, but with ND - I think Beetface says to himself: "50 looks a lot better than 43."
For me, the difference is that it's a service academy team, like I orginally said. Now, again - that is just my opinion. Maybe it doesn't bother some people & that is fine. I'm just saying it bothered me a little. I think it was disrespectful & lacks class. I don't think Urban Meyer would do that against a Navy team. In fact, I don't think many coaches would. Out of the 120-some D1 coaches, I'd suspect that only a handful would --- and I'm not suprised Beetface is in that handful. This is my opinion, people can disagree & people can agree.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
When games are out of reach... often times, teams don't take a knee to end the game. Many times, they just play it out.
And again, Notre Dame/Navy goes way back, so comparing that game to if they played us or anyone else is apples and oranges.
This looks like a reason just to dump on Notre Dame.
I agree with your concept but unfortunately 50 looks better and so coaches are going to go for it when they can. It's all part of the game these days. Right or wrong. I'm not sure any coach should be running up scores but they will. It's not Jr High football. It's big money and is what it is. I do get your point though. I wasn't excited with our last TD but it was also nice to see us play ALL 4 quarters so I will leave those decisions to the coaches. Thats their job. Mine is to enjoy the game while it's played!
43-10 is already a blowout...they already covered the spread. I doubt 50 points was Kelly's motivation for letting his 4th and 5th stringers compete. Service academy teams get beat up on ALL THE TIME...what's so different about what Kelly did? Its not like he called a play action pass to get in the endzone, it was a straight up run play from the 9...the odds don't exactly guarantee a TD in that situation. As I said before, I think ppl on here tend to let their emotions(hate for certain teams/coaches/analysts) affect their thought process.
@Blueinsconsin - Was it also a douche move on Meyer's part to let Dunn score with 44 seconds left in the game?
So 43-10 is a blowout but 49-10 isn't?
Smaller schools schedule big teams like ND and OSU for one reason- MONEY. For that reason, if I'm Meyer/Kelly/Hoke/Saban/etc., I'm gonna make em earn it. There's no mercy rule, let's be big kids about it.
BuckI8 - I think you missed my point(if you were indeed referencing my comment). I was just saying that that the game was already a blowout, I doubt scoring 50 was some magical number in Kelly's mind. I'm with you here...let the kids play.
im of the opinion: BRING THE PAIN.
Oh, sorry Cincy, I didn't realize that the start to my post mirrored yours so much, wasnt trying to call you out. Was more addressing the people looking down on Kelly and not Meyer.
Bucks43201, Notre Dame has the toughest schedule in the nation BY FAR. BY FAR! They cannot afford to waste any downs of regulation football simply because they don't want to hurt the feelings of the Navy's officers-in-training. They're probably going to have to outscore Oklahoma, USC, Michigan and Purdue. Stanford is no joke...the list goes on and on. Personal bias aside, if Notre Dame is serious about competing with the best, they need to act like the best teams...no mercy, and keep getting better with every snap.
I agree that ND has the toughest schedule. But, again :39 seconds left is take a knee time.
Agree to disagree.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
^^^
:44 seconds is plenty of time to score another touchdown in a 40 point game.
Agree or disagree?
'Running up the score' is a myth. You either play for 60 minutes or you don't. I have no sympathy for anyone (OSU included) when a team gets beat by exactly how many points the other team decides to hang on them. ND wanted to show they were that much better than Navy-more power to them.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
See no problem with it. ND has been under the light big time as of late as far as talk or relevancy. Go out there and play to the final whistles. Service academy or not. OKST, OSU, bama, FSU,USC, Oregon all ran the board. Service academy or not you cant complain one way and have it be ok in another. Prolly wouldnt see you worry one bit if we hung 100 on UM because I sure would not. Go out there and play football.
@ Brewster, never said they were "running up the score", just that 39 seconds left is a take-a-knee situation, and it's classless, esp. against a service academy
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Meyer scored on Miami with 44 seconds left. Was that classless too? Why haven't you called him out on it? Last time I checked Navy plays FBS football, and it was not too long ago that they had 10-win seasons with Ricky Dobbs at QB. They choose to compete against the "big boys", no one is forcing them. The game is 60 minutes long, not 59 minutes and 21 seconds long. You play to your best ability for those 60 minutes, not for 59 minutes and 21 seconds.
I had a problem when Tressel didn't punch it in against Miami two years ago, because guess what? The next year Al Golden did what you're supposed to do, finish the game, he punched it in on us with less than a minute to go.
WILLIAM - Do you think Urban Meyer would have done that against Navy?
Yes or No. I think not. I think only a handful of coaches would do that to an Army or Navy.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
He "ran up" the score on Citadel, so why would he not do that to Army or Navy?
haha you may have a point there. But, was it with under a minute left inside the Citadel 10? I think my definition & your definition of "running up the score" are likely different. I think anything outside of a few minutes left is fair game. But, inside another team's 10 with less than a minute, ('take-a-knee-is-the-norm" time), is running it up in my book. So, yes, Urban did against Miami - I agree. But, don't think he would have against Navy.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
I respect that you are defending the service academies, but I really think you are splitting hairs here. Service academies or not, they are still football players and play a game...a game that has winners and losers. You can't expect a coach to tell his 3rd/4th/5th string players who rarely play to not compete, or try to score, simply because it's Army/Navy/Air Force. As I said before, IF Kelly had called a pass play or called a timeout to stop the clock, then its a different story. But when a fifth string RB(who used to play WR) takes a handoff up the middle from the 9...you can't really play the jerk card.
1) It's makes no difference who the team is.
2) If your an ND hater, than ND is wrong no matter what.
It's that simple