Eleven Warriors

Forgive me if this sounds really dumb. I just want to understand why there is so much hate for Art Modell in Cleveland. I understand that he moved the Browns and angered a lot of people.

But at the time this happened, I was a 3-year old living in Texas and still didn't know what football was. Today seems to be an emotional day for a lot of people so I understand if it's not easy to talk about. I just want to learn more about the whole thing.

I was 2 when he moved the Browns, so I certainly don't share the hate for him that man Ohioans do. However this guy shit on the city of Cleveland and moved one of the Top 3 franchises of all time from its home city. His moving of the Browns is also partly responsible for the Browns awfull 2000s, because they had to start over entirely as an organization. What bothers me is that Browns fans don't share the same hatred for the NFL commissioner that allowed the Browns to be moved in the first place. Nevertheless moving the Browns, would be akin to moving the Bears, Packers, Giants, Redskins, Cowboys, Steelers or another team with considerable NFL history. 

^^^ more people on Twitter now, I suspect... but the point is understood.

While I feel for his loved ones for their loss, and don't wish harm to any human, this guy does not deserve any kind words from anyone outside of his family. I understand that profit isn't a dirty word, but there's no way in hell that if he were following standard business practices he wasn't making money hand over fist in that crumbling stadium. And @William, most of us that are old enough to have lived through the years of torment of being a Browns fan hate Tagliabue just as much, if not more.

Modell didn't really die. His family backed a truck up to the hospital in the middle of the night. They loaded him and all of his stuff in the truck and bounced.

Look for Modell to surface in a city that is willing to build him a brand new state of the art hospital and staff it with new doctors

Try to be classy, Cleveland.

It was a business decision & it was his money. Yes, it sucked for the fans --- but, villifying the guy decades later & celebrating his death seems pretty low.

AMEN

you clevelanders are whiny little hateful babies

He fired Ohio's most beloved football hero, Paul Brown. Sure he was experiencing financial difficulties of his own but he could have sold the team to avoid the difficulties and bankruptcy he was dealing with. He said that he was facing the options of either losing his team or moving it elsewhere. Since he viewed the team as his personal possession he took the team and moved to Baltimore for some quick, temporary financial relief. He later still was forced to sell the team due to financial difficulties. He backstabbed the city of Cleveland and moved one of the most historic franchises in the NFL with one of the most passionate and dedicated fanbases in the country so that he could selfishly hold on to his prize possession for just a few more years. I will never forgive that guy and I don't care to show him any compassion. If you were only two or three years old and didn't know football at the time of the move, there's a reason you probably don't care as much. Outside of that, I guess if I don't have anything nice to say, I won't say anything at all. I just think it needed to be explained to some of the people who are having trouble understanding why some might have less than warm fuzzy feelings for the man.

William I wasn't taking a shot at you. 

@Baroclinicity  Funny, that was what I was thinking of Cleveland fans regarding all their scorned proffessional sports lovers...

Baroclinity  why do I need to grow up? I spoke the truth from what I hear and see regarding a lot of ignorant and childish Cleveland fans. 

RAMZY, you are right, he was selfish, but that is no reason to hate him...-

I gotcha MAESTRO, I wasn't being sarcastic - actually complimenting the quick change-up. Commendable to change it out of respect for the deceased, kudos. I understand your passion.

@Steensn, Why would that not be a reason to dislike someone?

There's a difference in making a business decision and taking a quick selfish cash grab so that he can live just a few more years in the glory days of being the owner. The move didn't save him financially it just prolonged the inevitable; he was going to have to sell the team. Why do you expect people to not hate him? He certainly owed a little to the city of Cleveland. Those people that filled the seats and paid his bills for so many years. 

@Baro...there are a few on this board who feel their opinions are most important, are not subject to critique, and are a loose set of rules in which all posters must feel, think, and follow. When you disagree, you catch their ire and when you say something they don't approve of, be ready to have insults lobbed your way

I have no dawg in this fight, so I can see both sides. And, below all the old, now resurfacing, pent-up resentments, there is an interesting discussion operating under the surface.

That "discussion" centers around a key point, to which several commenters in this thread have alluded, but which Bolt (at 10:53 above) really crystallizes:

. . . he [Model] viewed the team as his personal possession . . .

Great point! Were the Browns really Model's possession? The answer is complicated - yes and no.

In the modern world or urban politics and economics, no, the team was not Model's personal possession, because sports owners are always asking tax payers to support their private projects. These owners want their sports franchises, which operate under pubicly-protected monopolies, to be private (personal) possessions when it suits them; but they also want their franchises to be seen as public goods (demanding public support) when that suits them, as well.

But, yes, the Browns were Model's personal possession in part because the Cleveland sports fans (and taxpayers) were only too willing to allow Model to have his cake and eat it too. Thus, they were accomplices in everything that led up to Model's departure. Ideally, from day 1, any and all investments in the Browns and related "infrastructure" would have been privately supported - i.e., would have been Model's personal responsibility - but fans/taxpayers happily fed Model at the trough up until the day Model fled the coup.

Dislike and hoping someone goes to hell are two different things. You can have no desire to hang out with him or support his business for his business decisions, but wanting and sesiring ill-will to befall him before and after death is beyond that IMO. Did his business effect a lot fo people? Sure, it was a BIG business. But those resturaunt owners weren't paying a % of their profit for him to stay.

Further, if they moved the stadium location to keep the Browns in Cleveland no one would even care about the businesses that have lost out on the move. Even further than that, just as many businesses were helped or started with the move to Baltimore so it is a wash.

He made the investement, he get's to make the decisions on how to best try and make a profiut from that investement. This is exactly why I feel teams should be publically owned so that the lcoal people put their money where their mouth is, realize it's a business that needs to make a pofit, and has a reason then to make decisions that help keep it there and profitable. We are unengaged fans who don't get the business side of things, it's sports ENTERTAINMENT. If we want it to be more than that we have to stop it from being so much of a business and do something more like what Green Bay does.

To be clear, I don't hate the Ravens, but Baltimore itself is pretty gross. The summary of my views is that Art is a douche, I'm not gonna write a thesis about it.

I'll admit I shouldnt judge a whole fan base, that was wrong. Do I need to prove how below average the browns have been the last 20 years Baroclinity? 

I reacted a bit to extreme, it's just when I hear people say they want Lebron dead and burn his jersey..or "Art Model can rot in hell"..it makes you roll your eyes a little.

@Steensn, I never said I'm happy he's dead. I certainly will not be throwing a party or celebrating anyone's death in a negative manner. My sentiments toward him are the same now as they were in 1996. They're the same as they will be 20 years from now. The man is a selfish prick. To me he's always been dead since the decision he made, today makes no difference to me except that it's an excuse to bring it up as a topic of conversation. My feelings have not changed on the subject and will not change...but I'm not cracking open a cold one and doing cartwheels in the streets because anyone died. 

Again, he wasn't doing it so that he could make a business profit, he did it so that he could selfishly hold on to the team for a few more years, only delaying the inevitability that he had financial issues and was going to have to sell the team anyway. Moving the team did not net him some huge sum of money in some kind of cunning business move. It bought him a few extra years at the cost of the city and the people of Cleveland. Since when has being a selfish prick not been a reason to dislike someone?

Buckeyejason- The Browns, before they were moved, had been to the playoffs quite frequently and recently.  Their last season wasn't good in '93, but before that they actually had some success with Testaverde at QB (I still can't believe that) and a good defense.  I think it was the year before they knocked out Bledsoe and the Patriots in a playoff game.  The mid to late 80s were a mini-heyday with Kosar in his prime.

Since then, yes, they pretty much blow.  This year looks like another 5-11 campaign. 

Probably not, Cleveland's cursed and screwed in all sports. Yet we'll root on.

Imagine someone taking buckeye football away from you for 3 years. 3 year ban hammer for NCAA lets say. People in cleveland had this happen for no fail of their own other than selling out everygame. People who rip Cleveland for hating modell are clueless.

Hell look at the butthurt we had over the NCAA taking away the possibility of 2 games

Fair enough. I really can't sympathize with Browns fans in a lot of areas,  but I can see where it comes from. There was a serious threat that Chicago was going to move to Gary and still be the Chicago Bears, but play (for some unknown reason) in Gary, Indiana. We wouldn't have lost our franchise as fans and Chicago would have probably burned for a day or two-and that was for nothing more than stadium relocation so the loss of a franchise would certainly be traumatic. I totally get the Browns grudge.

By that you mean it gave other selfish billionaire owners leverage to hold their franchises hostage so that the cities will build them new stadiums to avoid what happened to Cleveland. That certainly is endearing, isn't it?

I ma at 11W because at the moment there seems to be a better group of people here than i other boards. Go to any other site for Browns/OSU and you won't see this clean of a thread. A majority of the Cleveland sportsfans have butthurt over LBJ and Modell, unneccessarily. Again, most here are rather good, but I don't think this board reflects most Cleveland sports fans. I left multiple boards to end up here for now.

@Buckeyejason   Just imagine our beloved Buckeyes and staff uprooted and moved to Bal and nothing left but an empty stadium, no more football for the next couple years, no recruiting reports, no B1G titles, no national titles, no more 11W . Nothing, its all gone.....   Now honestly tell me how your going to feel about the man responsable for taking all that away and how long till you recover from that?

For all the "the Browns were Modell's business" people, I would first say that while sports franchises are indeed businesses, they are unique in their ties to the community and their dependence on the community.  However, even if we were to concede that a sports franchise is just another business, the idea that a business owes nothing to the greater community displays a real lack of understanding for standard business practices.  Still, I think I would enjoy a marketing campaign from a fortune 500 company, say Exxon or GE, that woud use as their slogan "We owe you nothing."

Steensn-  I think where you're missing is that, despite the prevalance of the butthurt comments (and there are a ton of them), it's still not necessarily representative of the majority.  Remember, the idiots are generally the "loudest", i.e. the ones that always post, like on cleveland.com etc.  In my opionion, the majority of the opinion is like the one above from TheHostileDwarf, "I'm not saying I'm glad Art Modell is dead; I'm just not at all bothered by the fact he's no longer alive." 

But again, just because you don't share the same sentiment as Cleveland fans doesn't mean the sentiment is unnecessary. 
 

I grew up in Cincy, so obviously wasn't a Browns fan. However, there are a lot of comments above that don't seem to realize exactly why and how the team moved. I'm not trying to say it is okay to wish death upon someone or that people should still be upset this many years later, but I do think people not as familiar with the story might feel differently if they realized how jerky Modell really was in the move. He didn't just move the team because they weren't making money- he was the reason they stopped making money.

The deal was this:

1) In 1973, Modell signed a 25 year lease with Cleveland Stadium. He assumed the expenses of the stadium, which freed up tax dollars for the city. In return, he was to receive the stadium's revenue.

2) The Indians also used the stadium, and argued that suite revenue should be shared between the Browns and the Indians since the Indians were responsible for much of that revenue. Modell refused to share the suite revenue.

3) The Indians spent many years attempting to convince voters to fund a new stadium, all the while informing Modell that they would move out if he did not share suite revenue. Modell refused.

4) After the Indians were able to get their new stadium built, Modell was offered the chance to join the group funding it and thereby continue to share in some Indians revenue. Modell refused.

5) After the Indians moved to Jacobs Field in 1994, Modell discovered that he had drastically underestimated the amount of revenue the Indians generated for him and discovered he could no longer run the Browns profitably.

6) Modell requested that an issue be placed on local ballots to provide tax dollars to the Browns to allow for the refurbishment of Cleveland stadium. He stated that if the measure did not pass, he would consider moving the team.

7) Modell signed a deal to move the team to Baltimore before the measure even came up for vote. (The day before, actually). 

8) When the measure did come up for vote, it passed. Cleveland was willing to give Modell what he said he needed.

9) The legal disputes and settlement talks began and, eventually, Modell was allowed by the NFL to move the team, but Cleveland was promised a new team and given the rights to the Brown's team name, colos, and history. The city was also promised the new Browns would be put in the same division as the Steelers and Bengals to keep rivalries alive.

As you can see, Modell was pretty jerky through the whole thing. It was his choices regarding the Indians that ultimately created the untenable financial situation, and following that he moved despite the city giving him exactly what he'd asked for.

Again, not saying it is good anybody died, but some people seemed to think the move was just a business making a business decision. It was more of a business jerking lots of people around and forcing itself into making a decision.

I will keep my feelings on the passing of Mr. Modell brief:

I am all about forgivness, and I have forgiven him, but I still think the sellout bastard is burning in hell.

Also, all you self-rightous people defending Modell can go complain about it on a Ravens message board. Most of you doing the complaining are too young to understand what this did to Browns fans. The ones old enough will not be mourning his passing at all. 

PS

I will link this back to the Buckeyes by saying that Modell was so much of a scumbag that he FIRED PAUL BROWN, the man who brought OSU their first national title and the Browns the most success the franchise has ever had. 

Thank you cplunk. I think many people have 3% of the story, because they know more or less the gist of it, and so they make statements based on ignorance about Browns fan reactions to Modell's actionas and subsequent death.

But even then, I don't see how a breathing sports fan can deny how dirty this was. Imagine the team you love most being taken away from you for years, out of nowhere. You wouldn't react as neutral as you expect us to be, so lay back from the hypocrisy, it looks bad on everyone.

Cplunk- You killed it.

Excellent C-plunk...just excellent!

 @Buckeyejason 

football isnt the most important part of our  life but it is a part of our life or we wouldnt follow it. We all get over it but we never forget it or there would be no lesson learned.

CPLUNK explains it best

The devil just got another henchmen by his side.

That SOB announced the move of the team about 2 weeks after I paid for the Browns reunion in San Diego. I assume Modead got a share of my cash on that deal too.

Bad business men should not get rewarded with new stadiums in new cities.

Adios, Einstein

^ strong example of everyone's comments about you 

cplunk...well stated and hopefully some of the younger members of this forum will read that post and better understand why so many dispise Art Modell. As well as cplunk did in explaining why Art was mostly to blame with the moving of the Browns we also need to remember how that effected those of us who grew up in NE Ohio.

I was born 3 days after the Browns won their last NFL title. Growing up, Cleveland was the butt of every national joke made (burning rivers, school desegregation, bankruptcy, "The Mistake by the Lake", etc), but WE had the Browns. My father used to tell me stories about how great the Browns were in the 50's & 60's (younger folks do yourself a favor and research the history of the Browns before claiming them to be a crappy franchise). THE BROWNS were a source of pride for Clevelanders! The Browns were a beacon of light for a city that has struggled for the better part of the last 50 years. Browns fans lived and died with them, they identified themselves with the team and most importantly it gave the city a positive identity. Say what you want about the river burning, but you can't dog our Browns. The Browns were exactly like all the hardworking members of the Cleveland community...blue collar immigrants who took no quarter...just hard as nails people who rooted for a hard as nails football team.

That is the Cleveland Browns football team I remember as a kid. Cleveland Browns football was a way to connect with my father when I was growing up and didn't have as much in common with him, it was something that WE shared and I prize to this day. You just can't take that away from someone and not feel anger and betrayal. This NEVER had to happen. Art Modell stole the Cleveland Browns from the city of Cleveland and NOBODY should EVER forget that. I feel bad for all the young fathers that might not have that bond with their son/daughter that I have with my father. Come hell or high water I can always talk to my dad about the Browns and Buckeyes. Shit runs deep people. This isn't a complicated matter to this Cleveland Browns fan. Modell stole my team and my youth. I have heard my father cry twice in my life...the day his mother died and day the Browns announced they were moving. So NEVER try and say this was solely a business decision. Generations of older Browns fans lost something more important the day the Browns moved, they lost a dear friend and a connection to their beloved city that for this Browns fans has NEVER completely healed.

NEW OSU07ASU10 ON 6 SEPTEMBER 2012 - 2:46PM #
^ strong example of everyone's comments about you 

Post reported.

Clever Bill..clever indeed.

I don't think it's funny at all

Lets try to remain civil to each other.  It's ok to disagree but dont resort to personal attacks.

Be excellent

And well done, CPlunk.

For anyone not familiar with the Modell - Browns breakup, just read CPLUNKS spot-on comments. As for myself, I'll use the headline of a NY city paper when Walter O'Malley (the man who moved the Dodgers from Brooklyn to LA)  died : "O'Malley Dies. Who cares?"               

May he rest in peace.  If I judged a man only by his business decisions I'd dislike a lot of guys I know.  Either way at the end of the road I think most deserve some sense of respect for the good they've done.  I mean I haven't exactly been an angel in my life and so I hope that when the time comes I'm not judged only by my bad descisions!

modell did a lot for the browns. the browns best yrs were under HIS ownership. clevelands last winner was his 64 browns. he sure looked smart firing paul brown and winning the title immmediately. i'm a die hard browns fan and hate tha he moved them but cleveland was too cheap to build him a stadium. he wanted to stay in cleveland. at least he won cleveland a championship and we were winners when he was the owner.

Not a pro football fan, but I understand the underlying angst against him; I don't blame them.

I also understand that he was a businessman, and that not all business decisions are going to make you friends. 

I think I misunderstood his post so I edited. 250MG is typically a good amount though. That's quite a bit of any OTC. I take the blame though yo, I saw you edited too b/c I did :p

modell fired paul brown, who my dad idolized, and since i love my dad i just had to hate modell too.  new owners now GO BROWNS!!!!!!!

While reading the rants on this post, below is a fitting response. 

Mr. Madison, what you've just said ... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I think Cplunk nailed the details of the move and Bstadnik's post showed the passion that some Browns fans have.  I am a lifelong Browns fan, I remember when the team moved, and how empty the city felt while the Browns were away.  But I will never celebrate a man's death.  

In my mind, Modell has been dead since he took the team to Baltimore

^you're*

He's been dead to me since 96.

BuckeyeJason,

I understand your innate need to defend yourself from every little jab.  However, at this point, you come off as being a "jackwagon".

And some others here are correct; the weight of your opinion is lessened by your demonstrated lack of knowledge concerning the fiasco.