Right after All-access tonight, you guys watch the blitz? They were doing their rating thing and the guy rated the chance UM is going to beat OSU a 8 out of 10! His list of points were 1) They beat them last year. 2) New head coach.
I think UM has a chance to beat OSU this year. But not 8 out of 10! First of all, last year was last year. Not to say anything but that wasn't quite a blowout in the big house. This year is here in the shoe.
I say its 60/40 OSU. I give the edge for the home game. I don't think that is a homer pick!
8 out of 10 is silly. The only two years that I can recall being that confident in the outcome of the Game would have been in 2008 and 2010. But I wouldn't have made that proclamation before the season started.
I thought he said 9/10 confidence. Not that it really matters.
I saw that too, I looked up from my desk and gave the TV stink eye!
"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."
Yeah, it was 9...dude that said it was from Florida...Gators ('cept Tebow) don't care for Meyer these days
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
^ha! Good point, it was good butthurt "analysis"
The Game is a long way off from now so it's just another bunch of silliness from the network that can't get enough of stupid things to say. Maybe ESPN will make predictions next week on the 2014 and 2015 Games.
"They beat them last year"
"New coach"
Yet both of those things didn't stop them from beating us last year. So.
I wouldn't cheer for Michigan if they were playing the Taliban.
"They beat them last year" - Everyone beat us last year. I think sometimes people really don't realize how big a disadvantage we were at as a team. Our coaching staff was a joke and Fickell was WAY in over his head. He had no offensive gameplan, and we all know Bollman was a liability as an OC. I don't want to go as far as to say last year doesn't count, but in a lot of ways, it's hard to say it's any kind of indication of how we will be this year.
"New coach" - We had a new coach last year, and he was arguably the worst coach in the conference, and we STILL almost went into AA and won. He got thrust into the job a few months before the season started, and he clearly wasn't remotely close to being ready. Yet, we lost 6 of our 7 games by a TD or less. You think that if we had Meyer and his incredible staff as opposed to Fickell, Bollman and Heacock, it might have made perhaps a 7+ point per game difference?
Last year's game was also at AA. This year's game is in Columbus, and the players on this team have the stale taste in their mouths of losing last year. I'd bet any amount that we win this game this year. There is a better chance of us winning big than losing, IMO.
Funny how it was never considered that the "new coach" or staff could possibly be a vast improvement from the last. But it will be. And the Florida guy made his Florida buddies happy with that one. Not worth the time to listen to that "analysis" other than a laugh.
I wouldn't bet anything on The Game; this year or any year. If the season lives up to expectations for you guys, I'd agree you have a better chance of winning.
Now, you might have had a lot to endure last year, but OSU brought everything they had for that game (had Herron and Posey back), and revealed to the world that there was a pass offense deep down inside. In fact, your offensive game plan kicked our A$$. Michigan should have won by 10-20 points. You may have been 6-5 coming in, but it's not like they played like a 6-5 team. Again, this type of effort isn't uncommon in The Game.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Good points on both parts Hail. There have been very few times I have said strongly I would have bet money on The Game (2010, for example). However, I do think this year is going to be quite different.
OSU did bring everything that game, but it's still hard to overlook the fact that there were many things affecting us that won't be there this year. Miller looked great sometimes, and he looked like a true freshman sometimes. This year, he will have 2 full offseasons and basically 2 full years as a starter under his belt. We also will be playing at home, which we all know is a HUGE advantage. You're definitely right that immense effort and surprising outcomes are common in The Game. However, I think that game was more an indictment on how "good" you guys really were rather than how good we were. The differences on the coaching staff are going to be the most noticeable part of this year's Ohio State team.
anyone who knows the game, knows putting a 9/10 confidence on either side in any yr is silly. the emotion and heart that game is played with is unparalleled (spellcheck).
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
i do however think meyer is gonna drop a 50 ball on bielemma (i mis spell his name on purpose)
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
Right now we should be an under dog in that game. For all intents and purposes Michigan has staibility, OSU doesn't. That's all it is. Come November when Robinson is dinged up and playing through a lot of pain (as he has to each year) we might be singing a different tune but right now M is coming off a SUGAR BOWL WIN. Regardless of how 'easy' or 'cheap' some of us have accused it of being-A BCS win is a BCS win. OSU got the same good fortune a few years, especially the 03 Fiesta against KSU. Funny things happen and you can either benefit or suffer. As for them being an odds on favorite by these 'analysts' I still can't get why people get so worked up. Its August dudes. Chill. People have reasons to doubt OSU the same way they have reasons to doubt any team that is coming into a first year of a new program, even it its Meyer at the helm.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
"A BCS win is a BCS win"
That's BS. How about 2010 when Oklahoma beat UConn? Also, since when has a team from the ACC been any kind of competition? Just 2 seasons ago, they won the ACC while also losing to James Madison. They are perennial paper tigers. They got beat twice by Clemson, and we saw just how good they were last year, too. The 03 Fiesta Bowl vs. Kansas State was a quality win, seeing as how they had just come off a blowout win over BCS #4 Oklahoma, and 2 weeks earlier blew out BCS top 20 Nebraska. What did Va Tech accomplish last year? Nothing.
Good points Brewster..I hate to see our fan base so delusional at times.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
@Brewster and @Buckeyejason
I didn't see anything in this conversation where anyone was getting worked up or being delusional. They were just expressing thier disbelief that someone would say that Mich has a 80-90% chance of winning in the shoe over tOSU this year.
This has been one of the more reasonable discussions of late on the forums.
You can kill a fly with your slipper or a cannon. Either way, the fly dies. -Ramzy
That is crazy Hoke is in his 2nd year why do people act like that's along time! 2 years ago they were 6-7 I don't call that stability! It takes time to prove their records we almost smoked their ass in the PIG HOUSE with a 1st year coach and quarterback! Sorry rehashing stuff everyone knows but in rivalry games the home team should get a small edge. Our team is more stable this year than last.
Wherever you are, there you be!
That guys a tool on that show anyways..obviously didn't put much thought into his statement.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
@Sox33 - I agree. While Virginia Tech did have a solid defense, that's about it....they lost to Clemson big TWICE (and didn't Clemson get whomped - I mean WHOMPED - by West Virginia?). Also, VT barely beat Duke. DUKE!
I'm still not impressed by UM's "accomplishments" from last year. No doubt Hoke is turning things around and they're headed in the right direction, but barely beating ND in the final seconds, not playing the best team in the conference (e.g. Wisconsin) and losing to the second best team in the conference (MSU), does not a great team make.
Why does every win have to be "justified"? I mean a wins a win..12-0 is still undefeated whether you only win every game by 3 points and half the teams on your schedule are "duke" like. College football needs to stop being looked at as a science now and days. All that matter are wins and losses.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
That's not true at all, Jason. If it were, Oklahoma State would have been playing in the NCG, not Alabama. We also would have been playing Kansas in the 08 title game, not LSU.
@Brewster, If the guy said UM will win, I have no problem with that. I think it is very likely UM will win. But a confidence level that high for "The Game", he is being delusional! I don't care which team has the "new coaching staff" or who has the better talent. There is a reason why it is "The Game". No matter what happens throughout the season, both teams play this game more passionately than any other game. I don't care if UM is undefeated and OSU is winless, to say one team is that confident in a win is crazy talk. Even when OSU was rolling UM during the RichRod years, I still was concerned UM could win!
It is not delusional to expect a more even game between these two! Especially when the possible "lesser team" is the HOME TEAM! It is hard to win at the SHOE just like it is hard to win in the Big House!
Sox,
So are you saying Michigan shouldn't be a heavy favorite over OSU because they beat Va. Tech and Va. Tech wasn't any good? Or because Oklahoma beat UConn once? My point is that Michigan is a good team, is returning very important pieces at QB, RB, and along the offensive line. The notion that people are convinced Meyer will get this thing right in one year is an odd one. Its going to take some time, thankfully OSU has a favorable schedule to work on a lot of things by The Game. As it stands right now, 8\17\12 @ 10:33 A.M. Eastern Time, I would say that Michigan should be favored to beat Ohio State.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Actually Sox, Hawaii was 12-0. They would have been the top team if it was just wins and loses in 2008.
9 out of 10 is a strong favorite Brewster! Do you really think UM is that heavily of a favorite? In the horseshoe?
No, I don't Squirrel. So in that sense, I can agree with some of the sentiment of the board.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Okay, that was the intended point of the post.
I agree to think OSU will dominate to a 12-0 and beat UM is a bit of a dream. But I don't think "The Game" should be handed over to UM like that guy was predicting. I took a look at some sports betting sites (I don't bet sports really. Just Kentucky Derby), the average is UM by 3. A field goal dog at home actually seems about right at this moment. 9 out of 10 is crazy!
Brewster -
I'm saying that beating Va Tech, arguably the biggest BCS game choker of all time, in a season where they beat nobody of any real value, in one one of the ugliest games I've ever seen has no influence on a game that will take place 11 months later against an Ohio State team that is drastically different than last season's version. I was giving examples of you touting a "BCS win as a BCS win". That doesn't mean anything at all. Go through the long list of teams that have won a BCS game. You'll find names like Kansas, Louisville, Washington, Oregon State, Tennessee, etc, and where are they? It isn't a big deal. Not all BCS games are equal. I'm looking at the teams that will be playing, and I see no reason why scUM should be favored at all, especially considering the game is at home and many analysts I've seen are predicting us to do better than them this season, anyhow. What reason do you have (other than them beating a Va Tech team that barely resembles us) for thinking they should be favored?
Same system, Senior QB, returning LT, Returning RB. OSU returns largely the same defensive unit Denard Robinson had his way with. Michigan has continuity, to date OSU is a total and utter enigma. Hence, right now-OSU is the dog and rightfully so.
Nothing OSU has done (because they haven't done anything yet) makes me know if they are any better than they were last year, so where I am standing-right now-OSU is an under dog to Michigan.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Damn it Brewster stop making me agree with you!!! lol
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
First off, LT means nothing in an offense like scUM's. Robinson doesn't sit in the pocket. Secondly, last year's secondary was ravaged with injuries and the defense in general featured many first year starters. They're also bringing a similar defense to the one we had our way with last year. Thirdly, where are you getting that they have "continuity"? Hoke has been there 1 year. If we haven't shown you improvement, what have they done to show you continuity?
Honestly, which team has gotten better since last year? Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me we are in the same position under Meyer and his new coaching staff as we were last year with first year head coach who was in over his head? Lastly, the game is in Columbus. The personnel similar on both sides of the field. The coaching at scUM is exactly the same while ours is leaps and bounds better. Once again, why would they be favored?
LT always matters. Always in every system ever. Especially when he's as good as Lewan is\can be. Its more than just the blind side pass protection. Its a guy who knows the offense, stabalizes the guys around him and steps up to lead in the abscence of Molk. I hate to defend Michigan here but Lewan is head, shoulders, and nipples above anything OSU has along the offensive front.
They have the same coach, the same coordinators, and the same system. Over the long run, OSU's coaching staff is worlds ahead of whatever Michigan has. There are probably 3 future head coaches on this staff other than Meyer but the players are going to have to use the regular season to both win games, and learn how to play in something entirely different than what they are used to. Michigan players don't really have that problem.
I've conceded that Michigan isn't a heavy favorite, or a hands down favorite or anything like that but if I'm betting on the game TODAY and I can not change my pick no matter what happens over the course of the season I'm taking M
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
We'll agree to disagree. The LT just isn't as important as it used to be, especially in the spread offense. Who was VY's LT when he won the title in 2005? Who was WVU's LT during the Pat White years? Hell, who was the NY Giants LT last year when they won the Super Bowl? Know who the top LT in the NFL is? The one from Cleveland, and they blow. It just isn't that important. I know Lewan is good, but I will tell you what I think - I'd take our DL over their OL if we're going heads up. We have a likely top 10 pick in Hankins and another potential first rounder in Simon. And while we're at it, you do know we're returning a lot more on our OL than they are on their DL, right? Overall, we win the battle in the trenches.
They have the same coach, the same coordinators, and the same system that allowed a 6-5 team with no offensive identity to rack up 34 points and almost 400 total yards, both well above our season averages. We were one overthrown pass away from beating them. Maybe an illustration will help:
LAST YEAR
Coming off offseason full of turmoil with no stability and constant quesitons about future
True frosh QB
First year head coach with no offensive coaching prowess
Heacock and Bollman, 2 complete liabilities as our OC and DC
Game on the road
THIS YEAR
Coming off offseason full of certainty and stability with no questions about anything
Sophomore QB with 2 full offseasons and (will be) 2 years as starter
Ultra-elite head coach with new coaching staff that is exponentially more talented
No more Heacock or Bollman
Game at home
I'm not arguing its just the LT that makes the difference. You asked for reasons, I gave you 4-you are focussing on 1. If it were just the return of a top 15 pick, then yes, you'd have a point. Lewan speaks to the bigger picture that Michigan has returning players at the right spots and from an offensive stand point, doesn't have the same question marks OSU has.
Michigan doesn't have to worry about where they get their big plays from. Meyer has already expressed that concern for OSU. Michigan doesn't have to make a decision between True Freshman\Converted TE when rounding out their O Line. OSU does. OSU has to find guys to make plays-and they may end up showing themselves this year but thats my point-right now its a mystery. I know its fun to hate Michigan because we think we have to hate Michigan but I'll give them a nod when its deserved. They are a damned good team, and Hoke is one hell of a coach.
"potential first rounder in Simon"
I don't have the words for this one.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
I think Michigan will be good, but I don't think they are going to be 12-1 or undefeated coming into the game in November. I absolutely think Ohio State could and should be the dog at that point. Doing an on paper analysis I can see someone going with an 8 or 9 confidence on a scale of 1-10. The thing is paper stats in the preseason mean jack shit come November.
Injuries, players taking steps back, maybe teams exceeding expectations as well pop up and you have a pleasant surprise. One thing I will say to Buckeye fans, is temper your expectations. Don't jump of the Urban bandwagon if this team struggles this year. I fear too many people look at close losses last year and all the adversity that popped up last year and say well, just a mild improvement and this team wins 4 more games than they did last year.
Whole different set of circumstances this year. You don't think this team is going to face adversity with all the changes that have happened again???? New coaches, new system, and a new brand of football all together. Right now we know whe have a bunch of young, jacked up guys who are ready to go hit somebody. That can ultimately lead to bad football too though. I think this year we'll see flashes of brilliance and a lot of "Oh Shit" moments as well. This team may beat anyone, but a shocker like another loss to Purdue isn't out of the realm of possibilities either.
"Lewan speaks to the bigger picture that Michigan has returning players at the right spots..."
Ok, where else? They return their QB, we return ours. They return their RB, we return our original starter from last year (who should have stayed the starter, IMO). Are you saying their offense doesn't have any questions? They are returning 3 of 5 starters, we're returning 2 of 5 on the OL (though one was Adams who only played half the season, and another is Shugarts which is arguably addition by subtraction). Both teams know their big plays will come from their QBs. That isn't even a question. What other playmakers does scUM have? Roundtree is hurt. Their top 2 TEs from last year are gone. Who am I missing? OSU also wouldn't have to choose between a true frosh RT or a converted TE if they weren't the best options. I've heard nothing but amazing stories about Decker in camp. Once again, am I missing something that somehow makes this bad?
It's fine you feel about them what you feel. Not to sound like a jerk, but you couldn't be more wrong. They accomplished very little last year. They avoided Wisky and Penn State, caught us on our worse year in God knows how long, and they only went to a BCS game because they weren't good enough to go to the B1G title game. Va Tech is not a good team, and there's nothing you can say to prove it. They routinely fold against good competition. I think they have something like 2 wins vs the top 10 all-time under Beemer or something pathetic like that. I don't see the "damn good" team because they beat a totally down OSU team and a constant underachiever in Va Tech. We will win this year, and we will be favored by gametime, and it will be well deserved. We were 1 overthrow away from winning last year when we had no right winning. We're far better this year than last. There's no reason they should be favored coming to our house. It's simple.
And also, smartass, what is so wrong about Simon being a first rounder? ESPN has him rated top 5 at his position for the 2013 draft, and he's a physical freak. Please, bestow your wisdom about the draft that I'm missing.
if nothing else osu should be favored in the game bcuz we have urban meyer.... on a sidenote i would like to find a reputable betting site that is taking money on the game... and just to poke at brewsters simon might sneak in the first round :) im not the only one bro!
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
Name calling! Look at you go!
I'm not ready to crown this OSU team since they haven't played a snap of football under this new regime. You are. There is the where we part ways. The funny thing is-I don't dispute that come November OSU might end up being a favorite because they can show something about how they actually perform, not how we hope they perform. That's been my point from the outset-OSU has bigger questions than Michigan does. I love what Braxton Miller can be, but even he is still a mystery right now. Denard isn't a great quarterback in the truest sense of the word, but he's a known commodity. He's a great runner prone to injury who can hit an open receiver when his legs set up PA. Miller may not grasp the finer points of this offense right away, that is a question. And a large one, while I'm at it.
As for Simon (cute smartass comment, glad you can get so heated on the internet)-I've argued ad nauseum about him. He isn't a first round pick. Where does ESPN have him at? DE or DT? I assume DE as he is too light to play in the middle of any defense in the NFL, even a speed based system like Chicago or Philly. He lacks a pure position, does not have elite edge rushing skills, and has yet to show anything more than a bull rush (which in the NFL gets eaten for pre game meals). He also has incredibly short arms for an end and will struggle mightily with elite NFL Offensive Line length. You take first round picks to make immediate impacts on your roster. He is a project who can be a great football player but if a team has a need at End, he isn't one of the first 32 players off the board to fill that point. So, what makes him a first rounder?
**Shakes fist at Rick** Youuuuuu! :D
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Sir Rick, I do think there are intangibles that will play in Ohio State's favor, but you can't quantify those. That's why on paper, with no football having been played at this point, I can certainly understand why Ohio State would be the under dog, and possibly a big one.
I THINK Ohio State will win that game, and I THINK they will because of guys like Simon who will be playing their final game at OHio State, that's their national title right there. I also believe Meyer will want to make a statement against his biggest rival in the biggest game of the year. It's not a make or break game for him in his first season trying to get this team to learn a new way to play football, but it would go a long way to endear himself to the fans even more. Right now the guy can do no wrong. He's recruiting great, he has the players in great shape etc, but after they drop a couple games this year, natives will start getting restless. Go out and smack around Michigan in your first"the game", and you are golden.
With his track record in "big" games and the way he's dominated rival schools, combined with the fact that guys like Johnny Simon and Stoneburner won't want to go out with an L in that final home game that is essentially their bowl game, I think Ohio State will win. I also think they'll be the dog in the game.
Wow, calm down. First off, being called a smartass isn't that big a deal where I come from. Being condescending for no reason is generally considered a lot more rude, but I digress.
We get it. You're the token fan who takes the "I'm not going to get excited about the team because then I can't be proven wrong" approach. You really aren't thinking logically, though. The situation isn't as convoluted or "mysterious" as you keep saying it is. First of all, the finer points of the spread offense? If Miller was smart enough to be productive in whatever offense we played in last year, he will be fine with this. Also, since it appears you don't know, he ran a very similar offense in high school. If Tim Tebow was able to excel in his first year as a starter under Meyer, I'm sure Miller will be fine.
It also seems like you're trying to extrapolate my comments to be an indication of how we will win every game. We're only talking about 1 game here, and it was one we all but won last year on the road. Once again, and you continue to avoid answering this, what has scUM done this offseason to improve drastically over last season? Because we've done a lot. It isn't a leap of faith to say our offense will be far better than last season.
And as for Simon, he would be far from the first guy to be productive at one position in college and get drafted high because of his physical measureables (Vernon Gholston, anyone?). Besides, you clearly missed my point about him. What I mean was, he is very, very good. What he does in the NFL is irrelevant. For the purposes of this excercise, he will be one of the toughest matchups anyone on scUM's line sees all year long, if not the hardest. They have Lewan, and then...?
"And also, smartass, what is so wrong about Simon being a first rounder? ESPN has him rated top 5 at his position for the 2013 draft, and he's a physical freak. Please, bestow your wisdom about the draft that I'm missing."
"Besides, you clearly missed my point about him. What I mean was, he is very, very good. What he does in the NFL is irrelevant"
Really? What was your point? Because I thought you asked me why I thought Simon wasn't a first rounder! I guess I missed something. You asked for my reasons for why Simon isn't a first rounder, now you ssay the NFL is irrelevant? Come on man...
I'm not trying to extrapolate anything. I'm saying OSU shouldn't be favored, I'm also saying Michigan shouldn't be favored by a ton. This has nothing to do with being proven right or wrong, it has to do with tempering expectations. Guarded optimism is the approach I have about this OSU team because obviously Meyer's track record speaks for itself and in 2 years I'll be leading the cry for OSU's status as a national title contender. Right now-the excitement is kept in check.
I'm done here.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
if one is going to defend simon being a first rounder to brewster it aint happening. i know from expierience lol
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
Really? Already? One season?
he is jut now above .500. And he sure coached them ducks into the right hands in that ND game. Didn't play Wisconsin (they would have lost that one last year). In fact, he's lucky he got his first tOSU game at home. Hypotheticals, but still, plenty of luck in yr one.
I know he coached at non- perennial winners, but bowling green was a middling MAC team that Meyer took to arguably their best season in 50 years. In fairness, hokey had that one good season that they choked away at ball st. Other than that? One season at M, where a lot fluttered into place to produce a fortuitous 10-2?
Id take the buckyes right now, and give 2. They may have some continuity at Oline, but you have to give the edge to OSU's Dline in that trench. And our Oline may have some concerns, but their Dline is in more need of play-makers than our Oline. And u win in thetrenches. "if u want a bad team, have a bad defensive line".
WB
Wow, my post went to hell!
I think Simon could fit in well as a 3-4 DE in a 3rd and long nickle package. I don't think he would be a starter but specialists are being drafted in the first round now. How about that kid that was drafted by Seattle? He isn't going to be a starter. I think it is possible Simon will get drafted in first round. I think it will be a reach because he just isn't elite. But he will outwork anyone on that field. I see what you both are saying. Just don't need to be so angry about it!
I'm not saying Meyer isn't a better coach. I can count on one finger coaches I'd rather have than Urban. (His name rhymes with Rick Faban). Hoke has M on the right track, recruits the hell out of kids, and has his dudes buying into his approach. The change in Michigan from RR's last year to Hoke's first was night and day. Did he have good fortune? Totally. But the same guys that were false starting, whiffing on tackles, and not playing their assignments under Rich Rod were doing JUST the opposite for Hoke a year later. The guy is going to be a formidable opponent for our beloved Buckeyes.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
I like ur posts, and usually agree Brewster, so I'm just playing along with the dialog. I don't wanna get caught up in any arguements (or name calling!)
im starting to think of Hoke as M's answer to Tress. tress did well in the BIG by recruiting well in Ohio, and I get the sense he's preoccupied with "the rivalry". But I also get the sense his sights don't extend too much farther (yet, we'll see). U can go a long way up there with the rah-rah "Michigan footbaww, grumble-grumble, Michigan". And it's working on the recruiting trail.
I'lll be really interested to see how their recruiting turns out. They locked a highly "star-ranked" class, but I think urban knows something about not filling the class too early. Especially before senior seasons happen. Texas always fills up early with lofty rankings, but where are they, on a consistent basis? I believe Meyer has a better sense of the playe qualities needed to win on the biggest stage.
As for odds on next years game? I think Ohio has the edge. I think there's continuity where you need it most- on defense. After being a Buckeye for 25+ years, u have to know there's always a chance either team can win- I was even concerned during rich rods years. denard is a concern, but with plenty of questions on both sides, this one is going to the good guys. Shazier, with 2(!) healthy legs in that game, and a full season of starts behind him, will be the balance to that threat. Or, I'm hoping Marcus is "point A" and denard is "point B"!
WB
Hey don't get me wrong, I love watching Denard Robinson get tackled. I hope he's Point B for Shazier, and Sabino, and Marcus and Spence...heck even John Simon!
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Wow this thread went crazy!
For what it's worth Simon most likely WON'T be a 1st round pick. If he went out and got like 15-20 sacks this season then I might change my opinion, but even that they'll find a bunch of things to bring his stock down.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
as far as the product we have seen in game action, some of you who are convinced Hankins will be a 1st rounder but not Simon have me confused. Really doesn't matter to me, but Bobby Carpenter went 1st round didn't he, so did Craig Powell, Big Vern and Eric Kumerow. I'd say Simon has just as good of credentials as those Buckeyes.
Ohio State may seem like an underdog now simply because there's a new coaching regime, and we don't know how that will play out. However, after what I saw in that game last year, I think Mich should be more concerned about their chances this year than we are. I swear people at ESPN don't even watch the actual games - they see that Mich won and think some kind of major change has taken place. After ending the streak against us, and after their so-called win over Virginia Tech in the Sugar Bowl (have they formally thanked the refs that gifted them that game yet?), now all of a sudden they've taken control of things. Not so fast. Are they a lot better than they were in the Rich Rod era? Absolutely. But pump the brakes for a minute. Their best win was over a good but slightly overrated Nebraska team at home. I was impressed with the way they dominated that game, but they largely beat a bunch of cupcakes, barely escaped by us, and needed help to escape a VT team that was crushed twice by a Clemson team that had 70 hung on them by WEST VIRGINIA.
That one idiot former scUM player says we're stuck with Braxton for 2 or 3 years...yeah, we're "stuck" with the QB that outgained Denard and nearly led OSU to victory in the Big House as a freshman when OSU could've easily been a 20 point dog. Life could be a lot worse.
I know that in a rivalry game like this, a 6-5 team can come out of nowhere and play like a 10 win team. 2011 OSU wasn't your typical 6-5 team, though. Our team lost 7 games last year by a total of 50 points. That's with the coaching we had last year - head coach that admirably volunteered to lead the team, but wasn't ready for that kind of role, horrid OC, and a totally useless QB coach. We really aren't as far as some people think from being back to where we should be. Coaching was our big weakness, and that has been addressed. Now that we have a legitimate offense, if we can stay healthy and make some decent improvements defensively, we've got ourselves a heck of a football team. You can't base any predictions for 2012 over what happened in 2011. That's like saying OSU should never be allowed to play in a BCS title game again (which many have said) because we lost badly in that game in 2006 and 2007. Doesn't work that way.
Hoke may be Mich's so-called answer to Tressel, and he is in the sense that he gets the rivalry. Tressel's dominance was mostly, but not entirely, because he got the rivalry. Also, though, some of the Mich teams he beat were bad teams ('05, '08-'10, '07 is a notch above those other years but still could be pretty bad). That's 5 of the 7 in a row we had won until last year. He beat good Mich teams, too ('01-'02, '04, '06). If Mich was as good as we were between '05 and '10, we don't go into last year having won 7 straight. This rivalry doesn't historically work like that. Hoke's not going to have that advantage. We're not going to have OSU teams that have losing records and lose to the MAC or, worse, the FCS. We won't have 110th ranked defenses. Hoke is going to have to get it done against good OSU teams from here out. Last year was his one gimme. And he almost blew it.
I'll give Michigan their due credit for their improvements last year and being on their way to being a force again. But what I saw last year - not much more convincing than seeing the Urban era, which has had exactly 0 games played in it, to make Mich a clear favorite. I'd give us a 5.5 out of 10 odds, and I can see someone giving Michigan those odds, but it's pretty even, and how the season unfolds will determine the ultimate odds. But they're just odds and pointless. Yes, I've ranted for several paragraphs over something that's ultimately pointless. LOL @ me.
We'll see who's the underdog on November 18, when the Buckeyes roll back into Columbus after taking care of that fat turd Bielema and the Badgers.
Class of 2010.
Brewster -
http://www.athlonsports.com/college-football/early-2013-nfl-draft-rankings
"17. Johnathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State (6-4, 317)*
As only a sophomore, Hankins emerged as one of the Buckeyes' most talented D-Liners. The massive tackle was all over the field with 67 tackles, 11 tackles for a loss and three sacks last fall. Hankins will be the first of many Urban Meyer first-round defensive lineman, something he was known for at Florida. This big fella will be one of two potential OSU first-round defensive lineman, along with John Simon, in next year's draft. This is one stock that could sky-rocket over the next six months.
http://www.beyondusports.com/big-ten-preview-ohio-state/
"The Buckeyes return the entirety of a defensive secondary that ranked 15thnationally against the pass, as well as two potential first-round picks in John Simon and Jonathan Hankins."
http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/notes-from-up-north/2012/0...
"The 2012 Buckeyes may very well boast the best defensive line in the nation this season. John Simon and Johnathan Hankins are both likely first round NFL picks..."
These were just from page one of a google search. I'm not the only person who thinks this, so I don't know why you got up in arms so much about it. But yes, you weren't getting my point, which originally was that, even if they have Lewan, we have 2 very, very good defensive linemen that their OL will have to worry about. Can't believe it bothered you so much that I said he was a potential 1st rounder, but oh well.
I really didn't intend for it to get so heated here. As I said, though, you have done nothing to prove why they should be favored over us at all. You completely ignored the 2 lists I made, and they're probably the best either of us has done at illustrating our point. As I've asked now numerous times, how can you favor a team that only won by 6 at home last year (due to 1 overthrown pass in the final minute), against a true frosh QB and a lameduck coach when this year, they have to face the same QB that wrecked them last year, only now he'll have twice as much experience, and an ultra-elite head coach that basically designed his offense around QBs like Miller, and at home on top of all that?
Hey showthem, lets keep it to a two drink minimum. That is 2 drinks it takes me to make it through that monster comment! Longfellow called, he said he wants his words back! I turned in English papers shorter than that and got an A!
Very good points all of them! I will read the rest tomorrow!
I 100% agree that you can't bet on The Game.
Many of John Cooper's 90's teams should have won on paper. Didn't.
Many of Lloyd Carr's early 2000's teams should have won on paper. Didn't.
But, from what I've seen since 1975, it's the team that has a point to prove that usually wins.
So, if we have a narrow loss to Wisconsin, we will likely jump all over Michigan. If we blow out Wisconsin in their stadium, we will likely lose. If we narrowly win against Wisconsin: Anyone's game.
Tressel understood this: He always kept his team on edge by keeping games frustratingly close, even when he could lay 50+ on an opponent.
On paper both teams will have a lot to lose: Ohio State's last pride game, Michigan playing for their best bowl, and both teams trying to re-assert their elite status. Hard to tell at this point.
"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer
If we are blowing out Wisconsin in Camp Randall I expect a blowout of Michigan in The Shoe. College football players feed off of the atmosphere in a stadium. The Shoe will be rocking that day and trust me whether OSU is 11-0 or 0-11, there will be plenty to prove on 11/24. After a loss last year there's no way in hell these guys don't come to that game ready to play
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite