is was it is. Having lived in a glass house, not trying to throw too many stones.
F.... Michigan and all that.
It is funny to read Michigan fans explain the way their beloved Hoke handles this, when they brutalize Urban Meyer and the OSU program recently.
Hoke's zero tolerance isn't in effect in big games.
http://forums.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=162&f=2019&t=9269588
This isn't a shock....they NEED him in order to contend
... From the Detroit Free Press. Whatever, they're going to get stomped anyway. Although an SEC loss would be nice, even if it is at the hands of tsun.
I dont think he's going to start,hes just number one on the depth chart. May be wrong but from what I've read I think Hokes just playing some little mind game to keep bama guessing. If he does start, that looks pretty weak on their part.
Good, just more bait for the Bama Animals on defense.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I don't think any OSU fan can or should complain about Toussaint playing game one after the off-season we've had. If Mehwort and Stonney play Saturday then Toussaint should be able to play also. IMO
If he plays at all in that game, that is is just awful and shameful on Michigan's part. As others have stated in other threads, they better never say anything negative about another program for any moral / ethical reason in the future.
@ Adam
Yeah...because a crime that could easily result in the injury / deaths of others is the same as peeing on a building and running. Try to come back to reality, bud.
Drunk Driving vs. Public Urination????
Okay.
October 20th: National Kenneth Guiton Day
Correct me if I'm wrong, but being no. 1 on the depth chart doesn't mean he is going to play. From what I've heard, a decision has not yet been made.
true woodysglasses. However I think the report came from an Ann Arbor person/reporter covering the team. That is all I know of the individual that gave the info. It would be safe to say, whoever is getting the majority of reps in practice this week is getting the nod. Possible this is what was observed and reported. IDK.
How soon we forget Alex Boone?
"You'll be proud of our young people in the classroom, in the community, and most especially in 310 days in Ann Arbor, Michigan on the football field."
DUI is a bit more serious than running from Police but I think that OSU fans have to look in the mirror before we are critical of Michigan for playing Toussaint. At OSU we just sell our Gold Pants on Ebay and trade Tats for autographs. Lets just agree that OSU fans shouldn't even be the least bit critical of any other programs wrong doings.
@adam, I understand what you are saying, but i disagree. Correct me if I am wrong, but did twotaint (tousaint or however u spell his stupid name) get any punishment other then a minor suspension from practices?
Stoney and mehwort got scholarships taken away. Thats basically the equivalent of a fine, a pretty hefty fine for a college student because now they had to take out loans (assuming they had to) for the summer, and they had their own little suspension from practic, being demoted to practicing with freshmen and having to work their way back up.
What was twotaints punishment? I do not mean to sound ignorant, but all i heard of was the little suspension since he has been practicing since early camp.... did he receive anything else?
Fitzgerald Twotaints. That is perfect. Ha!
Honestly, screw anyone who says that because I am a fan of a certain team I can't have opinions about other teams' actions.
Hoke has to sit Touissant, and I have every right to be upset with him if he doesn't. As long as I am constistent with this idea, that a DUI deserves at least a one game suspension, regardless of who it involves, then no one has any right to look down on me or chastise me for that opinion.
I am sick of a lot of fans saying that certain people can't say certain things because of their team. "Oh you're an Indiana fan, you can't say that Ohio State's offense sucked." "Oh you're a Alabama fan, you can't complain about sketchy recruiting methods." "Oh you're a Notre Dame fan, you can't complain about a team being overrated." F that noise.
Cause I couldn't go for three
Who cares what they do or don't do. No matter how they discipline their own players Michigan fans will always complain about how we discipline our players. At the end of the day I could care less how strict Brady Hoke is.
I'm with PHX. I really don't care about the punishment or lack thereof. As a coach, he wouldn't be the starter. But I'd be sorely tempted to let him play, no doubt. Might go with the sit-out-the-first-half cop-out punishment.
Either way, I'm rooting for all Big Ten teams through the non-conference slate. We really need the reputation boost.
"Number one on the depth chart..." True.
"...and expected to start versus Alabama." Where'd you get that part? A source, if you don't mind, because I'd be surprised if that is true. Your link, such as it is, doesn't support any credible basis for your headline.
Only reason I'd say anything about Michigan if he plays is because of all the arrogance we get from them about everything our players ever do.
M Man...just admit it, you all think it's ok to get a DUI and not even miss 1 game. I love hearing how he might not "start". WOW that is really taking takes one of the most dangerous crimes very serious. If Hoke was serious he would have already announced game suspensions etc. He has no secret/brilliant plan to best handle things or to keep Alabama guessing, you don't try to use a DUI issue for that...he's simply like most coaches that care about themselves over the institution...the difference is, your school has pointed so many fingers, in part due to all the losing you did up until last year, that when your guys screw up you have a lot more dancing and flip flopping to do. It's fun to watch. Yes he may sit a series or a quarter, big deal, but Hoke is not saying "let's really throw Bama off and pretend this weeks depth chart doesn't mean what it usually means (projected starters for the week)....it was a stupid move and I love that he'll take heat for it and Michcheatagain Wolverine fans will scurry like roaches to our sites looking for a chance to defend their "honor".
D. Anthony
Anthony - Actually, as has been discussed on a previous thread, most UM fans think he should be sitting or a game or two. Additionally, how soon we forget that we too have had players with DUI's that did not miss a game. And finally, it's quite funny that some ppl talk about how heinous this crime was yet overlook the fact that they themselves have likely operated a vehicle while impaired.
as if Toussaint is going to make THAT much of a difference. Michigan's offense is and will continue to be all about Denard Robinson. If he plays like crap, Michigan will get absolutely destroyed regardless if Toussaint starts/plays or not.
CINCYOSU, while I agree with you, sadly, about operating imparied (I admit 0 guilt on here), I have to say that it is different in a way. Not driving while impaired or under the influence, that is a terribly poor decision. What 'could have' happened is unimagineable and people need to realize it before they get behind the wheel.
Where it is different is in the social and personal sphere. If we were to get slapped with a DUI, we would get reprimanded by parents, family, have something on our record, those looking to get into school would have to explain something of this sort, etc. Also, we are not representing an institution like this at such a high level. Twotaints is a very well known figure for scUM, and he doesn't even miss all of camp or even 1 game for the DUI, when he is part of the face of scUM football?
Is that because he is an athlete? Is that because he has more worth to the school than others? IS that because he is more important to the team, that if someone else got a DUI they would not have sniffed the field for 3 weeks? who knows. What I would like to know is, if scuMM sh*t the bed last year, and this happened and twotaints got this DUI, and they were playing some scrub ass team (like app. state, haha), then whould twotaints be sitting?
Again, this is all IMO. I am not mad or trying to get into an internet pissing battle, I already emptied myself this morning so I have no urine left, but I am drinking a lot of water and will have a full bladder in a half hour.
Any thoughts? Not on peeing, on my views? Am i in the wrong?
Agree Dubjay. For any coach, ours included, to treat DUI as if it is just a minor misstep is an injustice. It says much to the kids following their favorite teams and players. DUI is OK and if you are needed in a pinch it is far less of a problem than taking a leak. He absolutely should have been removed from the team for at least 2 games and that means zero practice as well. Until we all start treating this problem with the seriousness it deserves it will continue with our guys as well. Hopefully Hokes game is for preparedness purposes as described above and he will sit out the game. If not and he plays we should never hear another blasphemous word from the mouths of the skunk weasels. But I am sure we will.
Let them have their RB. No excuses for this game can Scum play with the big boys or not?!?!
scUM fans trying to say Public Urination is as bad as a DUI.....
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
This will be a very interesting situation for Hoke. It seems that a lot of the Ann Arbor community (read: "Stereotypical Michigan Men) are clamoring for Touissant to be suspended, yet Hoke seems very reluctant to do so--it's almost as if he's purposely dragging his feet. What I find interesting is that Rich Rodriguez was run out of town for not being a prototypical "Michigan Man", I wonder how the faithful will react here? This would really be the first instance where Hoke has ruffled feathers and upset the traditionalists in Ann Arbor. Granted, it's a pretty small issue, but I wonder if we might see some cognitive dissonance up North if ol' Fitzy leads the Wolverines to an upset?
For what it's worth, I think first-offense DUIs should carry a mandatory one-game suspention, no questions asked. I really hate when coaches make penalties dependant upon the talent level/importance of the player and not by the severity of the crime. Brian Kelly reinstating Michael Floyd is the most unforgivable of sins, in my opinion.
Seems like Hoke cares more about winning. scUM might just be the next Thug U.
Wherever you are, there you be!
It's been said already; if you look informally at comments on Michigan blogs and media comments pages, the opinion is overwhelmingly in favor of a suspension for Toussaint. I've said it before, on these web pages; if Toussaint plays against Alabama at all, Brady Hoke will have a hell of a lot of explaining to do. I know of no one who is as yet confident in saying one way or another, apart from what I just said -- it would be hard to imagine no team-related punishment.
I'll hazard a guess; Brady Hoke wanted to (1) get the most out of the whole team, including Toussaint and the other RB's during the precious limited summer camp time, without distractions, and (2) he didn't feel like telegraphing to the world how to game-plan for the Michigan offense in Week 1, or 2, or whatever. My guess is that Fitzgerald Toussaint and Frank Clark will not travel to Dallas.
As for Stoneburner and Mewhort; I had some interest in that situation, if only becuase they got arrested about 100 yards from where I parked my car when I attended the Sunday round of the Memorial Tournament. And apart from a lot of amused jokes about peeing, the Michigan blogs showed little concern about what Meyer might do to them. It was a slow news week, college football-wise.
Every college football fan base thinks their rivals are soft on punishment, and that their team is holier than holy on retribution and rehabilitation. In fact, there is too much bad behavior by athletes, but certainly no epidemic of sociopathy. Nothing that isn't common to the demographic of all 18-21 year old high-testosterone athletic males. There are a few outliers, and I'd put Michigan State's history over the past 5 or 10 years in that category. And I'd say that the unfortunate criminal history in Columbus and Ann Arbor (and the respective teams' responses thereto) is, for the most part, remarkably similar.
@M MAN - I think you're right. My gut says neither Fitz or Clark play, and I think that Hoke knows that public opinion will not bode well for him if he lets his starting RB slide...even that starting RB is the best constraint for a defense solely prepping for your team's dual-threat QB.
I don't envy his position, at all. I'm also sure that Touissant has come upon the realization that he's severely let his team down, as well.
M Man- I'm curious: How confident are you that UM wins this game? How much impact does Toussaint's playing or not playing have on it? Is Roundtree expected to play? I know I'm pretty intrigued by the game.
Alex Boone and Doug Worthington both had DUIs and missed no time for us. This thread is becoming comical. How can we complain about Toussaint, when we have already done the same thing.
"You'll be proud of our young people in the classroom, in the community, and most especially in 310 days in Ann Arbor, Michigan on the football field."
^^ I think this is in response to the thread as a whole, but just to make sure, I am not saying OSU handled all their business appropiately, and I think many on here are not stating that either, although I could have misinterpreted some things. I am by no means perfect.
The subject at hand is with twotaints. Should those others have been suspended, abso-fricken-lutely. But that is in the past and no one can touch those cases. In the here-and-now, Twotaints should be suspended one game, no if's, and's or but's.
Twotaint? Really dude? No wonder why everyone hates our fan base.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
@DubJay Yes I meant as a whole. It's their business. Who cares what they do, especially when our guys have committed similar crimes and saw no on field punishment.
"You'll be proud of our young people in the classroom, in the community, and most especially in 310 days in Ann Arbor, Michigan on the football field."
^^ got ya
whats wrong with twotaints? I do not want to worry about thinking how to spell his name. I don't care for that team. And I think the hatred from other programs stems a little deeper than making fun of a scUM player's name, implying that he has some sort of biological deformity that would baffle the entire world....
Bucki_1033 - I respect your opinion, and I'm not getting all bent out of shape about the possibility that Toussaint will play against Bama this weekend. I honestly don't care one way or another if Hoke plays him. But I do thnk he's setting a precedent for the future.
Bringing up Boone and Worthington is fine, but they played for Tress and not Meyer. I didn't always agree with Tress on how how he handled player issues. But you can expect different coaches to handle player issues in different ways. I'm not sure how bringing up Boone and Worthington is relevant to now or how OSU will handle things in the future.
Whats your last name? I'm sure you'd hate people degrading and making fun of it, right? Just makes you and this fan base look immature that's all. Won't hurt to learn a little..his name isn't the toughest to spell out there.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I don't feel OSU fans can say anything... I actually think no NCAA fan can actually say anything because no program is perfectly clean.
I would say this thread is comical because no decision about them playing has been announced yet. Nothing sillier than jousting against thin air when on your moral high horse.
@TennBuckeye Yes, you're right, it is a new era and Meyer will suspend his guys for DUIs (see Carlos Dunlap). I am just saying before we go criticizing others, lets at least acknowledge the past.
"You'll be proud of our young people in the classroom, in the community, and most especially in 310 days in Ann Arbor, Michigan on the football field."
Here we go again. I think the site is specifically for this type of banter on college football topics. People giving their two cents on things. Why are there always problems with others opinions? It's what we are here for, right?
Since you asked, its Morris. I have been called More-ass several times on occasion. If this is really upsetting you this bad, I apologize, however, I have to suggest that you stay away from the internet, especially if you do not like seeing or reading things of this nature. PC is not my strong point, and is actually a large part of my humor. To each their own i guess, but twotaints is something I am going to stick with, with or without your blessing. Am i going to learn how to spell his name? Nah, I'm good. If someone were to generalize the entire fan base of Ohio State on my comment about 'twotaints', then I pity how ignorant they are.
Sorry if this rubbed you the wrong way, but its not going to make me stop. Not trying to be a dick or anything, just my views on the situation
Although, I am kind of offended that you called me lazy, saying that I am stupid and unable to learn correctly and am bad at spelling, making fun of my entire life, calling me immature... Is that an extreme view? yea, it is, but so is saying that I am degrading him. Am i making fun of his name? yea, I am. am I degrading him? I guess if you took the extreme view of my comments, yea, i am degrading it. But that is an extreme accusation. Maybe you should start with blogs online of people making fun of Dick Trickle, Lucious Pusey, or Johnny Dickshot before you get bent out of shape on twotaints....
urinating in public is nothing, a dui is a very serious offense, i think it should carry an automatic two game suspension at the very minimum
urinating in public cost them a major 'fine' by stripping their scholarships, that is a huge punishment
Those are some good questions.
"Confidence" in a Michigan win? Confidence is low. I am "confident" when we play Minnesota and Northwestern in Ann Arbor. I am "hopeful" that the team will play a good game on national tv and that in a first game, there will be turnovers, and that anything can happen.
It will be awfully hard to control the line of scrimmage against Alabama. Their offensive line is unreal. Our defensive line is untested.
If Toussaint sits -- and that would certainly be my decision if I were the HC -- it hurts Michigan, a lot. He's the clear starter at RB. And having a clear #1 at running back is a big deal in Borges' offense. It's not like we don't have any other runners. We do. But they are mostly situational guys, and not a stud B1G tailback. Borges needs to come up with the offensive game plan of a lifetime.
Roundtree is a huge deal, because we are already awfully thin at WR. The reports are that he is running nicely again, after having missed most of the summer camp. If we were missing both Roundtree and Toussaint, it would be terrible. I expect Roundtree will start.
Bucki - I'm with ya.
M-Man - It certainly will be interesting to see how all this plays out.
Per Hoke's press conference from yesterday, Roundtree is practicing at 100% and will play against Bama.
So, speaking of the Michigan depth chart...
One thing that you guys should look for, and can rightly expect; backup QB Devin Gardner, a former 5-star dual threat QB recruit is being moved to WR, even though he is still listed as the second QB name on the two-deep roster.
This will really be fascinating. He's quite a specimen as an athlete. Very NFL-like in appearance. Not unlike MSU's (former Oklahoma backup QB) Keith Nicholl going to a WR role even while being held in reserve for backup QB duty. Except there may be an even higher ceiling of potential for Gardner with his foot speed.
If things work out okay for Michigan (Denard stays healthy, Roundtree becomes a WR that defenses must respect in coverage, the O-line can pass block), "Devin Gardner, wide reciever" could turn into one of the most interesting personnel stories in the B1G this year, on a par with Northwestern's Kain Colter.
MMAN, good poitns. I am not rooting for you guys to win, But i am rooting for Bama to lose. There is a difference in my book, and I am more attracted to the fact that the B1G can use this game as a stepping stone for greatness, even if TTUN has the opportunity to get the ball rolling.
It doesn't really matter, from a chemistry standpoint, if roundtree missed camp time. It's not like routes and timing matter. The only questions is, can he out jump the safety when the arm-punt nears?
WB
Who cares that game will be a blow out. I hope Michigan is at full strenght that way we don't have to hear excuses.
Bama is only a 11 point favorite(taking that). If they contain Robinson its going to get ugly.
@DUBJAYFOOTBALL I'm with you twotaints it is!!!
They will need Gardner's size for when Denard decides to throw jump ball after jump ball this season like he did last. Who needs accuracy when you can throw it deep like Sexy Rexy and pray for your WR to catch it?
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
For what its worth, Toussaint had court this morning and had his DUI charge reduced. Not sure to what, but sentencing will be Oct.23rd.
^^^ interesting development..... I wonder what evidence there was that could bring the charge down.... I mean, if someone is under the influence, and driving, I am pretty sure a DUI is just... wonder what transpired or what the public is missing on this one. But interesting nonetheless....
Did not know that if you blew (correction .12) they could legally do that. If he was behind the wheel and had the test done how does it get reduced? Any one with law knowledge know?
So instead of the .08 some wanted us to believe the actual blood alcohol content was .12 per ESPN story
I just read now where the charge was reduced from a DUI, to driving while visibly impaired. Which he plead guilty to that. Not sure how much of a difference this on the legal side of things.
ESPN reported the reduced charge as "operating while visually impaired"... whatever that means.
So essentially he drank brandy, drove, ran a red light, and now pleaded guilty to a weird reduced charge. I still think M Man is right and he sits on Saturday.
Stated from the get-go that I (as an OSU fan) have lived in a glass house, and don't want to throw too big of stones (regarding other schools' players having problems.
Everyone knows OSU is on a Bowl ban and probation for a reason.
Muck Fichigan.
It is all too funny that Hoke stated he has a zero tolerance policy...well maybe not?
Hoke says they are playing Ohio, when he knows they are playing Ohio State
Hoke digs being a Michigan Man, when he was born in Ohio.
Hoke admitts he became a Michigan fan, just to be "different" from his friends....errrr get attention.
Hoke plays the goof role well. He is a buffoon, and any instance which shows this, I will glady point out.
@ dubjay lol.... i think you said it just fine.
O H I O is the Buckeye State
When an attorney is trying to reduce a DUI its usually to reckless driving, but who knows in this instance.