Eleven Warriors

Everyone can't be stars and play, just like everyone can't be rich.

I think flash Thomas was scared of competing 

I hope no one takes * ratings to heart.  We only need to worry about the kids the staff extends written offers to.  Trust Urban...  We all saw what he built at UF, he will do it again at OSU.

8 wins in the SEC isn't bad... I'd say that 8-5 team would've won 10 games in the B1G and probably competed for a conference title... I hate the SEC more than any conference in football, but obviously they're the most competitive conference in football. 

I think the original point was, don't pay attention to * ratings or at least I'm hoping that was it. 

Yup.  Don't sleep on the Tracy Sprinkles and Darron Lees.

how many of those recruits came from Ohio?

Don't really see what could be so wrong with my original post. Was just trying to make sense of what was being discussed. And the sentiment from you seemed to be that OSU shouldn't go after highly rated recruits and that a coach with 2 NCs to his name isn't all that great. While my opinion is that Meyer is one of the top coaches in the country and a serious upgrade over what we had last year coaching wise. Also I think you'd be hard pressed to find a national title team that wasn't stocked with 5* and 4* talent. I'm sorry if a differing opinion is so upsetting to you, maybe the internet just isn't the place for you.

Why do people keep saying psu will be tough?!?! They literally have lost all 11 starters(maybe 1 lineman returning) from last years offense(counting bolden, not mcgloin). And the exodus is not done yet

I'm just not sure what is so earth shattering about that. That kind of thing happens everywhere, it's not just an OSU problem. Some kids flameout and some live up to their rankings. In other news water is wet and the sky is blue.

@Waycraken, Clausen had a pretty great college career so I'm not quite seeing what you're getting at here.

BuckI8. You being a Clausen fan now tells me what I am dealin with

re: clausen- it's like god put a douchebag magnet in south bend. without fail, i can find 10 guys on every notre dame team that i point to and say, "you make darwin sad."

Yes, Clausen and every other ND player in history makes me want to punch babies. But that doesn't mean they were bad football players

@XTREME maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Do you mean the seniors that graduated/left after 2010? If so than I agree. But it sounds like you mean 2011, in which case we lost starting WR and RB that didn't play the whole season, and didn't lose a starting QB.

Whatever happened to James Jackson...he was supposed to be Teddy Ginn 2.0.

Yeah, that never happened. Just wondering if/where he transferred to.

I'm cracking up over this thread. Brilliant stuff Mastermiind. +10

Also, Wheeling, the ugly side of the Ohio..

BuckI8. Personally I thought Claussen was an extreme failure especially considering the hype. I know many die hard ND fans that felt the same. By time he became a senior he became somewhat humble from his personal experiences. I already said in another thread I am dropping the one topic.  You have been tolerable and make good points but your sarcasm should be directed at me only.

Assuming that Mastermiind really posted his actual phone number, one could have some fun and post that to /r/ and have peope go crazy with it.. 

"Well that is creepy. Please don't kill yourself, or even worse, go to Wheeling."- fix'd.          #2nd Amendment

Don't fix my posts. Thanks

Mastermind, I'm not trying to offend you but I don't really find that line of discussion very funny. Especially when kids can see it!

You'd probably have better luck with putting pollen all around me and hoping I sneeze myself asleep

I don't reddit either, but I'll check it out every now and then. Reddit and 4chan are worlds apart though. One can at least go through material on Reddit without having to gouge their eyes out afterwards.

Yeah Im at the point though, where I don't even know what either one represents, so your sentiment is sadly lost on me. Maybe I'll check it out

4chan is essentially a place where people post ludicrous nudes and disgusting links all day. It's awful. Reddit at least has quality posts/posters.

Jimmy Clausen.

Damn, he looks like a hedgehog.

No but the sense of humor displayed was a little dry for my taste. By the way Cobb was Rogers main target tonight. One great no star athlete throwing to another. 

Cobb is a crazy athlete, no one is denying that. When Timmons shows that he's a better player in the long run, I'll eat crow. And hopefully he does do that, preferably in scarlet and grey.

"Don't fix my posts. Thanks"- Here's some more 'Do as I say, not as I do.."

Of course the rankings aren't a perfect indicator, but more often a 4 or 5 star player turns out to be a stud than a 2 or 3 star. You're just playing odds over time at that point. Sure, you're going to have 3 star guys that turn out to be studs and 5 star guys that turn out to be duds...but the rankings are what they are for a reason. The indicator I prefer to follow is his list of schools that have offered. Who's offered in and out of his region, the type of offense/defense of the schools offering per the recruit and our school's offensive/defensive system, and the coach offering as well. Again, not foolproof...but what is more meaningful for me. You'll notice that nationwide big name coaches from big name schools are playing the odds over time generally.

JohnBlair, it's worse than 17 year olds now, hell now we're having debates, about kids who haven't even played their JR years in high school.  Potentially, 15 year olds.  Most of those names you mentioned, used to not really be discussed unitl somewhere between their final game of high school and signing day.  Now, we're talking about guys who just finished their sophomore years that are going to camps.  If people were wrong about the Schoenhofts of the world, when he was beloved as a senior, imagined how wrong the could be about Barker and Henderson who are 2 full seasons high school seasons away from signing day.

John, The thing you're leaving out is that a school like OSU is bringing in highly rated recruits every year. Because of this these highly rated recruits are competing with other highly rated recruits. Like all competitions somebody is gonna lose, meaning a highly rated recruit isn't going to see the field. Yes, sometimes a lower rated guy beats out a higher rated guy, but it's not the norm. It's not like all these highly rated players that didn't make it were beat out by unheralded recruits. Rankings aren't gospel, but they are a decent indication of future success. While you did indeed present facts, you haven't presented all the facts. Newsflash, this is a college football messageboard, people are always going to argue about recruits. 

His name is actually Dareus "Superman" Hiley.

Even Meyer didn't do it his first year.  His first team at Florida was 9-3

cplunk -- good points about looking at it not so much as 12-0 being too ambitiousthis year...but last season's 6-7 being a lot more of an aberration. I surely don't expect them to go 12-0 but someone would have to be crazy to think that this team not will be in a much better place mentally, will not be much more well prepared....and even if the offense experiences growing pains it's going to be a vast improvement over last year. Plus we have a strong core of the key players from the team returning, a relatively weak schedule, and its not like we were ever blown out by anyone. We were in every one of those games last year that we lost (unless my mind is just blanking out a game). It's one thing to take some garbage 6-7 team to a great season the following year...but lets be honest, that wasn't really a devoid of talent 6-7 team last year given all the circumstances and the total lack of preparedness and coaching/young player meltdowns that took place. I've got my sights set on 10-2 as a successful year for us this year.

What was Brandon Saine? Saine could have been better in a different system though.

Do you guys remember when we whiffed on Joseph Barksdale (DT went to LSU, where he switched to OT) and Ben Martin (DL who went to Tennessee)?

OSU message boards lit up with "Tressel can't close!"

We ended up with a guy named Cam Heyward, one of the last signees of the class, who was just a 4 star compared to Barksdale and Martin (consensus 5 star guys).  Given the chance to do-over, how many would rather have Heyward?

*Raises hand*

Just one year ago, every Buckeye prognosticator was predicting Curtis Grant would take over the MLB role.  Ryan Shazier wasn't on anyone's radar.

The lesson as always - as much youtube as we watch, coaches know more than us. 

Ah, this sheds a lot of light on today's conversations.

Good response though. Actually I feel its one of the better posts. The posts that to me is bad are the ones that try to get the kids coming to OSU that have already shown disrespect. A 5* is not worth the headaches if they show bad character.

best players of past decade not on list

-terrele pryor 5 star one of the best qb's in Tosu history

-beanie wells 5 star one of the best rb's in Tosu history

-ted gin 5 star one of Tosu greats

-maurice clarret 5 star (wouldve been one of the best had he stayed)

-im sure there are several more  but these are 3 of the best 7-8 guys in the past decade and they were 5 star guys

@waycraken, so if a player doesn't become a great nfl player then they weren't a good cfb player, I don't follow your logic.

i dont get it either? i'm talking about the past decade at ohio st as was the post i was responding to and i wouldn't say useless, i do agree i'll take a coach who'll recruit 3 stars that fit his system and develop them rather than some one who's star chasing with no real idea of how to make it work, i'd really prefer a guy who recruits 4-5 star guys that fit his system and develops them for the nfl, oh wait Tosu has that guy. URBAN F'n MEYER

I'd recommend looking at some of the statistical observations done on this exact issue, the correlation coefficient that compares star rating to success in college is actually quite high. Not to say 3 stars can't be as good as higher rated players, just that any given 4 star set has a higher rate of success than any given 3 star set.

@waycraken: timmons ran the ball once for 10 yard touchdown. next time he touched ball was a 24 yard catch reaching up high on the sideline. next time he touched ball was 29 yard touchdown pass, and the 4th time he touched the ball was a pass over the middle and to the house untouched 70 yards. that 4 touches and 3 touchdowns, in just 16 minutes of playing time in tonights scrimmage.

Thx for the update. Next week they play a team that is 6A and new building stadium etc. it will be a very tough game. 

I8 you are absolutely right, as a whole 5 star guys have a much higher rate of being an all American or making the NFL, and that should be fairly obvious really. I don't know why people question that really. Guys get rated 5 stars because they are superior athletes.  They are huge, or exceptionally fast, or they are 6'4" with a jet rocket arm.  You definitely have flame outs that are 5 stars and you have over acheivers that are 3 stars.  Where it gets on my nerves is when people get all pissed because the staff makes a committable offer to a 3 star in August and the kid accepts.  They react as if the staff is reaching, or taking leftovers to fill spots, and that just couldn't be further from the truth. 

I don't believe the star ratings are be all end all, and I trust the staff and offer lists for kids more so than star ratings, but I do think they have some value.  I would absolutely wager though, that the percentage of 5 stars that don't live up to expectation is much lower than the percentage of 3 star players who far exceed their expectations.  It's very easy for us to point out the success stories like AJ Hawk, but we don't talk about all the 3 stars who came to the program or other programs and were marooned to practice squads, special teams, and 4th string or lower.  

I also think it's worth noting, that the recruiting services can't get them all right.  There are 100,000s kids playing football in the US, they are trying to rank all the great players and fit them into a certain rating and it's impossible to get them all right.  We know why 5 star guys are rated 5 stars, but at the same time a guy like Timmons who has been popular to talk about here lately or even Marcus last year, may get lower rated because of the competition they play against or they aren't an ideal height for their position etc. That could make the difference between a 3 or 4 star and a 5.  I think another thing that the recruiting services can't quantify is heart, determination, work ethic, intensity etc.  Intangibles can be quite important and that's why you'll get a guy who is a surprise like Hawk. 

@JBGB That's a great way to put it. To be clear, I don't put all my eggs in the ratings basket. Mainly, I just trust the staff, and that's what we should all do until they show us otherwise. I really like Timmons, but he visited before Jacobs committed, so it's not like he wasn't on the staff's radar. Clearly they liked Jacobs better, and if they don't give Timmons that offer, then I'll trust that there's a good reason for that.

2012 NFL 1st Rd:  four 5*s. 13 4*s , 15 <3*s

For me it all starts with the defense. If Grant and Shazier play to their potential(Shazier put on 20 lbs!) behind what I expect to be the best Dline since 2002 then they will have an Excellent chance at 12-0. If the other team cannot score or take all game to get 14 they could and should win all those games. It will not be easy and I do not expect blowouts with the work-in-progress offense. The D should be elite... I really think they will play angry as there will be a lot of frustrastion about last season to get out. I would be very upset at anything less than 10 wins with this defense..

Sorry to be off topic but STEENSN, is that an Alvarez? Yari?

@Ken-Yon

4 or 5 star guys not included on that list from the last 10 years?

Maurice Clarett, Doug Datish, Nick Mangold, Bobby Carpenter, Nate Salley, Troy Smith, Quinn Pitcock, Mike Kudla, Anthony Gonzalez (as a DB, mind you), Donte Whitner, Ashton Youboty, Vernon Gholston, Ted Ginn, Antonio Pittman (was a 4* guy depending on where you checked), Marcus Freeman, Kurt Coleman, Thaddeus Gibson, Ross Homan, Beanie Wells, Cam Heyward, Boom Herron, Brian Rolle, Michael Brewster, Mike Adams, Terrelle Pryor, Nate Williams, DeVier Posey...I'll stop there just because the rest of the guys are on the team and it's unfair yet to list them even though they've already had major contributions (guys like CJ Barnett for example, who was a big time recruit). I left off a lot 4 or 5 star guys that contributed but included these fellas who were the major contributors to their teams. 

Recruiting rankings aren't a perfect science but they certainly aren't totally useless like some have insinuated. You're more likely to hit a stud on a 4 or 5 star guy than you are a 3 star guy. Sure you can hit studs that are 3 stars and duds that are 4/5s...but playing the odds over time you're likely to hit more frequently on the higher rated recruits.

The real answer to the three star guys:

1) They missed out on the 4 and 5 star targets

2) Their second tier guys committed elsewhere, still available, allowed to committ after others dropped out.

3) These were the next guys the evaluated as talent in areas of need

Example at OL:

1) Lisle 4*, Johnson 5*, Pocic 4*, etc.

2) Finley 4*, Tillman 4*, Vanashek 3*

3) Gardner 3*, We'll likely take another OT hoping it is Johnson

Example at WR:

1) Treadwell 5*,  Marshall 5* (IMO :) haha ), Foster 4*,

2) Gibbons 4*, Jacobs 3*, Allen 4*,

3) Who do we drop down to?

Example at LB:

1) Anzalone 4*, Neal 4*, J Smith 5*, Love 4*

2) Gibons 4*, Mitchell 4*, Lewis 3*

3) Haven't had to go to that level IMO yet.

The only 3* that would have been considered a "top" target was Sprinkle who was allowed to committ early. The other guys were opportunities taken after other top targets were out of the picture. The timing of offers and then them becoming committable seems to support this. We are "settling" for guys after top targets had been eliminated.

^^^Both these pages are insane....all I have to say.^^^^^ WOW!

If Ryan Hamby catches Justin Zwick's pass in the endzone vs Texas, does Troy Smith see the field that year? Just a thought.

I say we have a good shot at going undefeated this year... 6 of the 7 losses last year were by a TD or less, a few plays here or there, actually having an offense/unleashing Miller more, we could have easily won 10-11 games last year with most of that team returning to this years squad... as well as next years team.  Which is scary. 

I think with an improved offense, all of our freshmen/sophmores who started or played a lot last year, getting another year of experience, lifting etc. will help them out tremendously.  Our D should return to top 10 status, I can't wait to see Spence.. If Clowney could pull out 8 sacks as a freshmen in the SEC, than I expect Spence to put around the same # playing in the big10. 

Anyways, I think we'll go at worst 10-2 this season, but I'm banking on 11-1/undefeated.  With a top 3 ranking heading into the following year.

Oh and I suppose I'll answer something about this post... I don't really look to much into rankings.  One site could not rank a guy, another could have him as a 3 star and another could have him as a 4 star... It's just all opinions based on measurables, lifting/running numbers, and how well they do at camps.  But until you actually put them in a game against even competition, you're really just guessing. (besides the obvious gems of each class)  Also, I think the lower ranked players work harder than most of the 4/5 stars which is why you see a lot of them becoming stars, especially at OSU.  I mean depending on the recruiting service you look at, in terms of 3 star players alone, in recent years OSU has had a (3*) player win the Heisman, Thrope, Butkus, Bednarik, Lombardi, and other awards to go along with multiple 1st team all american nods, etc.  So it just depends, how the kid is coached/taught, how hard he works, and how far his own athleticism will take him.  Among other factors.