Tim Schafer, RJ Coleman, Brandon Maupin, Louis Irizarry, Dareus Hiley, Marcel Frost, Albert Dukes, Chad Hoobler, Kyle Mitchum, Fredie Lenix, Rob Schoenhoft, Mark Johnson, Connor Smith, Antonio Henton, James Scott, Eugene Clifford, Nate Oliver, Keith Wells, Willie Mobley, Lamar Thomas, Jonathan Newsome, Duron Carter, Dorian Bell, James Jackson, Jamel Turner, Scott McVey, James Louis
27- 4* or higher OSU NLOI signees since 2002
Justin Zwick, Mike D'Andrea, Sirjo Welch, Maurice Wells, Andre Amos, Ray Small, Rob Rose, Taurian Washington, Jaamal Berry, Melvin Fellows, Storm Klein, Dominic Clarke, Kenny Hayes, Derjuan Gambrell, Brian Bobeck
15- 4* or higher OSU NLOI signees since 2002
almost 2 full recruiting classes of 4 & 5 * recruits in the past 10 years.
FWIW.
i don't get it? guys who were busts or somethimg?
O'Deez330
stark county football
Are you trying to say 4* and 5* players don't always pan out? Consider me shocked.
You forgot Jeremy Cash. D'Andrea and McVey just had the injury bug too.
I wonder what ever happened to Flash Thomas...
Everyone can't be stars and play, just like everyone can't be rich.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
something to chew on when discussing recruiting, I suppose.
I think flash Thomas was scared of competing
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
You're preaching to the choir John blair
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I hope no one takes * ratings to heart. We only need to worry about the kids the staff extends written offers to. Trust Urban... We all saw what he built at UF, he will do it again at OSU.
To be fair, Urban's final product at Florida (a full 4 year recruiting cycle)was an 8-5 team. He didn't win a thing without Timmy Teabag. just saying.
8 wins in the SEC isn't bad... I'd say that 8-5 team would've won 10 games in the B1G and probably competed for a conference title... I hate the SEC more than any conference in football, but obviously they're the most competitive conference in football.
So Urban Meyer is a mediocre at best coach that only won 2 NCs because of one player (that was only a part time player on the first NC team) and OSU shouldn't go after any highly rated recruits. Is that supposed to be the whole point of this topic?
I think the original point was, don't pay attention to * ratings or at least I'm hoping that was it.
for the sake of this thread, OSU fans are thinking Urban is going to change the 6-7.. 2011 Buckeyes into an undefeated 2012 team based solely on momentum and his top 10 2012 recruiting class. The 2011 team lost alot of seniors, had backups that werent as good as the players leaving, and it's pretty reliable that 1/3 the recruits signed in Feb 2012 won't pan out. Therefore my thought is OSU has alot of work to do to even be a 9-3 team.
Yup. Don't sleep on the Tracy Sprinkles and Darron Lees.
We lost what, like 7 starters? Considering that 2 of those guys weren't with us for part of the season, with Posey missing the majority, I wouldn't call that "a lot".
edit: my bad. sorry for the comment.
EDIT: Not the kind of comment anyone should be making here. Do better. Thank you. Pam
uuuggg... star rating arguments are stupid... yes some pan out and others don't... some are overrated and some are underrated... but more often than not star ratings are a decent indicator of the talent level of a recruit
so please stop, it's a old and tired argument and leads to nothing
Cause I couldn't go for three
don't know who is making it a tired arguement.... maybe you?
you are with this post... and it comes up every time we lose out on a 5-4* or are get a commitment from a 3*... star ranking is just somehting interesting to allow us to easily track top prospect, not something to sit arguing over
Cause I couldn't go for three
how many of those recruits came from Ohio?
Sorry to disappoint you John, but the aren't any clamps on my nipples. I'm sorry that you had to resort to such a lame, unfunny and ultimately inappropriate response just because I have a different opinion than you.
ha! IDK Swede..... you should reread your response to a simple post.
Also I'm not the one jumping off a ledge at the loss of guys like Anzalone or FDerns, or suddenly saying they aren't OSU quality once they pick another school.
Love them Buckeyes and I truly enjoy this website to talk football. Having fun dudes and dudettes. Not meaning to insult anyone really.
johnblair, clueless. 6-7 was an anomaly. The proof is in the fact that pretty much everyone, not just OSU supporters, agreed prior to the 2011 season that OSU had the best talent in the B1G. Doubt me? Reread the 2011 B1G preaseason guide of your choice. We already know why they struggled last year but talent level wasn't the problem. In otherwords, the tools for success are already in place.
I would agree that going undefeated sounds a little rosy, but suggesting that they'll be hard pressed to go 9-3 is just mindless.
mindless? Why are alot of people predicting us to be 2nd in our division? it would take at least 1 loss to be 2nd in our division. I haven't seen a single prediction of Wisconsin going undefeated, so that would put us at 2 Big 10 losses to make that happen. So an error factor of +or- 1 loss and taking Cal and UCF for granted makes me mindless/clueless.
So you're saying we have to lose to Cal AND UCF, as well as two more B1G mystery losses to miss on going 9-3? That's verging on mindless, but I guess it's possible.
Don't really see what could be so wrong with my original post. Was just trying to make sense of what was being discussed. And the sentiment from you seemed to be that OSU shouldn't go after highly rated recruits and that a coach with 2 NCs to his name isn't all that great. While my opinion is that Meyer is one of the top coaches in the country and a serious upgrade over what we had last year coaching wise. Also I think you'd be hard pressed to find a national title team that wasn't stocked with 5* and 4* talent. I'm sorry if a differing opinion is so upsetting to you, maybe the internet just isn't the place for you.
didn't say anything about going 8-4. Though anything can happen. Listen Nebraska, Mich State, Mishitagain, Illinois Wisky and @ PSU will be tough.
I would love to see OSU go 12-0. I believe Braxton Miller to be a Game Changer. Anything is possible. Other teams that we play are also getting better.
Why do people keep saying psu will be tough?!?! They literally have lost all 11 starters(maybe 1 lineman returning) from last years offense(counting bolden, not mcgloin). And the exodus is not done yet
Don't think I've ever not wanted OSU to go after 4 & 5* recruits lol....
lol
funny stuff
just pointing out that we average 4- 4-5* recruits flame out per year. I don't like it, but it happens. Temperment. I'll be a Buckeye fan till my death. I hope Meyer does tremendous things here, but I do wonder if his intensity is made to last more than 3 years or if he could win a NC or go undefeated without one of the best college QB's of all time.
I'm just not sure what is so earth shattering about that. That kind of thing happens everywhere, it's not just an OSU problem. Some kids flameout and some live up to their rankings. In other news water is wet and the sky is blue.
My wife is getting mad at my computer time, so my last post of the night is this:
@ penn state will be a battle. they have nothing to lose. 18-22 year olds vs 18-22 year olds in the middle of Pennsylvania will be tough. How many Buckeye fans thought Florida would beat us in 2006? Who thought Purdunk would shackle Terrell Pryor on Indiana soil, when that Buckeye team went on to a BCS Bowl game? Emotion is the ultimate unquanitfiable element to competition.
Okey Dokie.. I was off by 5 minutes.
Not trying to revolutionary in the thread. Seems Swede wants more out of my thoughts than there is to give. Just stating facts about somethings and opinions about others. Noone needs to be wrong or right.
Go Bucks.
Love this thread and I believe very relevant. I think this crap with Elite 11 should be an NCAA violation instead of a reward for many Over Hyped players. John I will give you another name who was the highest rated recruit ever. This kid was average at the best and was treated with a television appearance. Actually wanted to announce his college choice at the NFL hall of fame game. Jimmy Clausen
@Waycraken, Clausen had a pretty great college career so I'm not quite seeing what you're getting at here.
I guess his point is don't go after highly rated kids, just stick to 3* and under diamond in the rough types. Unless I'm missing something here.
BuckI8. You being a Clausen fan now tells me what I am dealin with
number one overall picks dont always pan out either, so you can trade me your number 1 for my 17 any day of the week.
5 stars rarely aren't solid players, but there are exceptions to every rule.
i guess mostly that i'm criticizing you for this thread because, when i saw it was at the top of the recent post lists, i assumed this was a post about lou bega.
so, to conclude, goddammit that this isn't a post about lou bega.
hgvyt54trtfvt56
re: clausen- it's like god put a douchebag magnet in south bend. without fail, i can find 10 guys on every notre dame team that i point to and say, "you make darwin sad."
hgvyt54trtfvt56
@Waycraken, A Clausen fan? ND and everything related makes me gag. But I'm not sure how you can say a guy that started as a sophomore and put his name on top 5 passing lists in school history was wildly overhyped. I get it, you have a crush on Timmons, don't take it out on me because he's not gonna get offered. I think despite disagreeing with you, I've been completely civil.
Yes, Clausen and every other ND player in history makes me want to punch babies. But that doesn't mean they were bad football players
@buck-I.8 when you lose the key starting players like: QB, RB and WR's that does = alot...
except for the Miami game the Buckeyes were in every game they played last year so they did have plenty of talent just lacked experience.
O H I O is the Buckeye State
@XTREME maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Do you mean the seniors that graduated/left after 2010? If so than I agree. But it sounds like you mean 2011, in which case we lost starting WR and RB that didn't play the whole season, and didn't lose a starting QB.
@mastermind you are creeping me out. why are you telling buck-I-8 to go to WV and buy a gun?
Whatever happened to James Jackson...he was supposed to be Teddy Ginn 2.0.
Yeah, that never happened. Just wondering if/where he transferred to.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Pryor, Posey & Herron that was the offense. Pryor had to leave the team, Posey out for most of the season & Boom out for a good part of the season had a big impact on the team. took a couple QB's to fill the void Pryor left.
IMO that is a lot of key players to loose for any team
Edit: Pryor.... thanks Pam, its a late night for me.
O H I O is the Buckeye State
I'm cracking up over this thread. Brilliant stuff Mastermiind. +10
Pryor. Terrelle Pryor.
Also, Wheeling, the ugly side of the Ohio..
@Pam, Internet tough guy is implying that I should kill myself, because that's how internet tought guy fights his battles... By acting tough on the internet.
BuckI8. Personally I thought Claussen was an extreme failure especially considering the hype. I know many die hard ND fans that felt the same. By time he became a senior he became somewhat humble from his personal experiences. I already said in another thread I am dropping the one topic. You have been tolerable and make good points but your sarcasm should be directed at me only.
Well that is creepy. Please don't kill yourself, buy a gun or even worse, go to Wheeling.
Assuming that Mastermiind really posted his actual phone number, one could have some fun and post that to /r/ and have peope go crazy with it..
If we disagree, that's nothing new, and it's bound to happen. I'll admit Clausen didn't put up the numbers some people projected, but he didn't bust either. He had a career that many college coaches would take over their current starter. If I offend you at any point just let me know, I'm in it to have a rational discussion.
"Well that is creepy. Please don't kill yourself, or even worse, go to Wheeling."- fix'd. #2nd Amendment
@William I would assume no one is that dumb, but I've copied and pasted for possible later use
Don't fix my posts. Thanks
@Buck-I.8 I was thinking the same thing, but you never know, and dear god I took a gander at /r/, I now remember why I don't go to 4chan.
@Pam I was only kidding.
Mastermind, I'm not trying to offend you but I don't really find that line of discussion very funny. Especially when kids can see it!
@William Admittedly, I don't know how reddit works as I've never used it, and now I'm a bit afraid
You'd probably have better luck with putting pollen all around me and hoping I sneeze myself asleep
@Mastermind You are moving into jerk territory, so maybe you should pump the brakes.
I don't reddit either, but I'll check it out every now and then. Reddit and 4chan are worlds apart though. One can at least go through material on Reddit without having to gouge their eyes out afterwards.
+5 for the Midas line Mastermiind
Yeah Im at the point though, where I don't even know what either one represents, so your sentiment is sadly lost on me. Maybe I'll check it out
See what supporting Clausen got ya? Just take it back and he will forgive you.
4chan is essentially a place where people post ludicrous nudes and disgusting links all day. It's awful. Reddit at least has quality posts/posters.
this has been fun. highball, bucki, Pam: drive safe. night guys.
hgvyt54trtfvt56
Jimmy Clausen.
Damn, he looks like a hedgehog.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
You say that as if internet tough guy being an internet tough guy is bothering me. I'll let him have his moments of internet based overcompensation
No but the sense of humor displayed was a little dry for my taste. By the way Cobb was Rogers main target tonight. One great no star athlete throwing to another.
Cobb wasn't shown any love out of high school because he wanted to play QB. Most of the major colleges that wanted him were recruiting him as a WR. Not really a good comparison for Timmons. After his freshman year Kentucky moved him to WR where he belonged. If he would've played WR in high school, he probably would've been rated a little higher.
Cobb is a crazy athlete, no one is denying that. When Timmons shows that he's a better player in the long run, I'll eat crow. And hopefully he does do that, preferably in scarlet and grey.
erasing posts is like changing your jerseys and building new showers; even though going from 24 to 8 worked for Kobe Bryant, you can't undo the past.
hgvyt54trtfvt56
"Don't fix my posts. Thanks"- Here's some more 'Do as I say, not as I do.."
William, I didn't violate commenting policy with my post. Had I done so and then deleted his, you would have a point.
Of course the rankings aren't a perfect indicator, but more often a 4 or 5 star player turns out to be a stud than a 2 or 3 star. You're just playing odds over time at that point. Sure, you're going to have 3 star guys that turn out to be studs and 5 star guys that turn out to be duds...but the rankings are what they are for a reason. The indicator I prefer to follow is his list of schools that have offered. Who's offered in and out of his region, the type of offense/defense of the schools offering per the recruit and our school's offensive/defensive system, and the coach offering as well. Again, not foolproof...but what is more meaningful for me. You'll notice that nationwide big name coaches from big name schools are playing the odds over time generally.
What the hell is going on here? Either I'm missing a bunch, or there are comments missing in this thread. Obviously the original intent was to point out (once again) that highly ranked players don't always become great college players. However, after Jimmy Clausen was defended for being a good college quarterback (which he was) there appears to be a comment about committing suicide?
If this is what the thread has degraded to, please just delete the thread. To be honest, we've all heard the op's message 1000 times before, and if comments have to be deleted just to make this readable it's not worth it.
Class of 2016. Go Bucks!
This topic did turn into one heck of a hot mess. Pretty sure pointing out the 40+ 4+5* recruits who did not pan out over the past 10 years would be interesteing to some. Names not often recalled, but once celebrated.
Seems some one here only take Buckeye criticism as an excuse to blow things out of proportion. Take the info for what it is. Maybe after reviewing some facts on recruits from years past, people won't feel the need to argue about which 17 year old WR is the best or put down kids who decide not to be Buckeyes.
Maybe this is a tired arguement to some, because some refuse to listen to facts.
its ridiculous that some ppl get so worked up over differing opinions.
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
JohnBlair, it's worse than 17 year olds now, hell now we're having debates, about kids who haven't even played their JR years in high school. Potentially, 15 year olds. Most of those names you mentioned, used to not really be discussed unitl somewhere between their final game of high school and signing day. Now, we're talking about guys who just finished their sophomore years that are going to camps. If people were wrong about the Schoenhofts of the world, when he was beloved as a senior, imagined how wrong the could be about Barker and Henderson who are 2 full seasons high school seasons away from signing day.
^^ thankyou!!!
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
John, The thing you're leaving out is that a school like OSU is bringing in highly rated recruits every year. Because of this these highly rated recruits are competing with other highly rated recruits. Like all competitions somebody is gonna lose, meaning a highly rated recruit isn't going to see the field. Yes, sometimes a lower rated guy beats out a higher rated guy, but it's not the norm. It's not like all these highly rated players that didn't make it were beat out by unheralded recruits. Rankings aren't gospel, but they are a decent indication of future success. While you did indeed present facts, you haven't presented all the facts. Newsflash, this is a college football messageboard, people are always going to argue about recruits.
Yeah the Claussen example set it off. The highest rated player ever!! I still say this is the best example of why rating/recruiting services cannot be used as a sole reason to offer a kid.
true, and some of these guys played one year and transfered, flunked out, hung up the cleats, or get kicked off the team. Lots can happen.
I could go through the past 10 years and name a team of 3* and less recruits that could be formed into a team that could go to a BCS game.
How many threads have Willie Mobley and RJ Coleman references?
I get what JohnBlair is trying to get at though. Just because Urban has had a great class and has another one being built doesn't mean that Ohio State is going to go from 6-7 to 12-0. I think 8-4 is a realistic expectation and if they do much better it won't be shocking, but it will be a great coaching job.
I disagree that Urban never won anything without Tebow though, he wasn't a key player his Freshman year. Sure they brought him in on goaline plays and stuff like that, but Leake was the QB on that team. Leake shredded the Buckeyes, not Tebow. Plus, Alex Smith and Utah were pretty damn good and since there were a non BCS school, it's a shame they didn't get a chance to show if they could of won a title. One thing is for sure, they were damn good and won a BCS bowl.
So far as I'm concerned, if Meyer has a 6 year run here like he did Florida, it's a huge success. I'd take 2 titles, dominating my rivals, and winning bowl games every year.
His name is actually Dareus "Superman" Hiley.
Help is on the way.
BTALBERT25 hits the nail on the head about 5 posts up.
Also seems to understand my point of taking a team that went 6-7 to 12-0 is a huge task. Tressel, Saban, Stoops and Carroll all took a year to reroute the ship and get it moving full steam ahead.
Meyer is the exception. Hope he can repeat , but by no means is it something you should expect.
Even Meyer didn't do it his first year. His first team at Florida was 9-3
I don't think they have a shot at 12-0 (a narrow shot, but a shot) becasue Urban brought in a great class. I think they have a shot because the primary reasons they went 6-7 last year were (1) The worst play calling I've ever seen at the collegiate level, and (2) the mental beatdown the team had obviously suffered.
Both of those issues have been corrected. I did not see any games last year where the talent level of the opposing team was higher. What I see is a team with as much or more talent than anyone else on their schedule going into a season having corrected its largest two reasons for losing.
Yeah, it is a new system, and yeah, there are new starters- that's why I see it as an outside shot. Frankly, I'd be shocked at 8-4. I don't see that in the cards at all. I see only possible losses to Central Florida (don't laugh- I'm being serious), Wisconsin, and a school I won't name. And I don't think they'll lose all three of those.
cplunk -- good points about looking at it not so much as 12-0 being too ambitiousthis year...but last season's 6-7 being a lot more of an aberration. I surely don't expect them to go 12-0 but someone would have to be crazy to think that this team not will be in a much better place mentally, will not be much more well prepared....and even if the offense experiences growing pains it's going to be a vast improvement over last year. Plus we have a strong core of the key players from the team returning, a relatively weak schedule, and its not like we were ever blown out by anyone. We were in every one of those games last year that we lost (unless my mind is just blanking out a game). It's one thing to take some garbage 6-7 team to a great season the following year...but lets be honest, that wasn't really a devoid of talent 6-7 team last year given all the circumstances and the total lack of preparedness and coaching/young player meltdowns that took place. I've got my sights set on 10-2 as a successful year for us this year.
Food for thought. I know we all love the 5 star kids. But take a look at these rankings.
Now think about the best players that have come through the OSU program in the past decade that are not on this list.
How firm they friendship...
What was Brandon Saine? Saine could have been better in a different system though.
Brandon was a 4 star
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
Do you guys remember when we whiffed on Joseph Barksdale (DT went to LSU, where he switched to OT) and Ben Martin (DL who went to Tennessee)?
OSU message boards lit up with "Tressel can't close!"
We ended up with a guy named Cam Heyward, one of the last signees of the class, who was just a 4 star compared to Barksdale and Martin (consensus 5 star guys). Given the chance to do-over, how many would rather have Heyward?
*Raises hand*
Just one year ago, every Buckeye prognosticator was predicting Curtis Grant would take over the MLB role. Ryan Shazier wasn't on anyone's radar.
The lesson as always - as much youtube as we watch, coaches know more than us.
How firm they friendship...
No offense to anyone but truly that was about as big a waste of time as ive ever seen. Too bad I won't be able to reclaim that lost part of my life. SMH
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
Ah, this sheds a lot of light on today's conversations.
Why are we even discussing this? Everyone knows what ranking mean and don't mean. It's a tired discussion that for some people feel they need to bring up often like people don't understand.
noone is forcing you to comment on this topic, that is a waste of your time. Why don't you create your own topic and let the people who want to discuss this stuff, discuss this stuff without your posts of disapproval?
so you don't like this thread. sorry.
Your responce is filled with irony...
Good response though. Actually I feel its one of the better posts. The posts that to me is bad are the ones that try to get the kids coming to OSU that have already shown disrespect. A 5* is not worth the headaches if they show bad character.
Steensn - if this thread is so worthless, you can stop posting and move onto greener pastures.
How firm they friendship...
best players of past decade not on list
-terrele pryor 5 star one of the best qb's in Tosu history
-beanie wells 5 star one of the best rb's in Tosu history
-ted gin 5 star one of Tosu greats
-maurice clarret 5 star (wouldve been one of the best had he stayed)
-im sure there are several more but these are 3 of the best 7-8 guys in the past decade and they were 5 star guys
O'Deez330
stark county football
Beanie only one NFL worthy and I hope he gets a little better very soon.
@waycraken, so if a player doesn't become a great nfl player then they weren't a good cfb player, I don't follow your logic.
My only point is the rating system is nearly useless and thankfully your better coaches recruit for their system. Boise State Utah Oregon will target differently than Texas and Oklahoma. Personally in football I dont put much stock in being a 5 star basketball on the other hand seems to get it right on the4-5 players.
i dont get it either? i'm talking about the past decade at ohio st as was the post i was responding to and i wouldn't say useless, i do agree i'll take a coach who'll recruit 3 stars that fit his system and develop them rather than some one who's star chasing with no real idea of how to make it work, i'd really prefer a guy who recruits 4-5 star guys that fit his system and develops them for the nfl, oh wait Tosu has that guy. URBAN F'n MEYER
O'Deez330
stark county football
hey waycraken
I'd recommend looking at some of the statistical observations done on this exact issue, the correlation coefficient that compares star rating to success in college is actually quite high. Not to say 3 stars can't be as good as higher rated players, just that any given 4 star set has a higher rate of success than any given 3 star set.
Buckeyetu. Did you go to the game? What did you think?
@waycraken: timmons ran the ball once for 10 yard touchdown. next time he touched ball was a 24 yard catch reaching up high on the sideline. next time he touched ball was 29 yard touchdown pass, and the 4th time he touched the ball was a pass over the middle and to the house untouched 70 yards. that 4 touches and 3 touchdowns, in just 16 minutes of playing time in tonights scrimmage.
what do i think, way? urban where are you, put this kid in scarlet and gray, please.
Thx for the update. Next week they play a team that is 6A and new building stadium etc. it will be a very tough game.
I think Lamaar Thomas is playing at New Mexico with Bob Davie.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
I8 you are absolutely right, as a whole 5 star guys have a much higher rate of being an all American or making the NFL, and that should be fairly obvious really. I don't know why people question that really. Guys get rated 5 stars because they are superior athletes. They are huge, or exceptionally fast, or they are 6'4" with a jet rocket arm. You definitely have flame outs that are 5 stars and you have over acheivers that are 3 stars. Where it gets on my nerves is when people get all pissed because the staff makes a committable offer to a 3 star in August and the kid accepts. They react as if the staff is reaching, or taking leftovers to fill spots, and that just couldn't be further from the truth.
I don't believe the star ratings are be all end all, and I trust the staff and offer lists for kids more so than star ratings, but I do think they have some value. I would absolutely wager though, that the percentage of 5 stars that don't live up to expectation is much lower than the percentage of 3 star players who far exceed their expectations. It's very easy for us to point out the success stories like AJ Hawk, but we don't talk about all the 3 stars who came to the program or other programs and were marooned to practice squads, special teams, and 4th string or lower.
Exactly. For all I know, Tracy Sprinkle could be a first rounder when it's all said and done. But for know, all we know is that Joe Bosa is technically polished and built like a tank, while Sprinkle is a project. So to argue with the trend that predicts that Bosa will be more successful is counterintuitive. At best you can say there is no way to predict, but you can't accurately place Sprinkle being more successful on a line of best fit.
I also think it's worth noting, that the recruiting services can't get them all right. There are 100,000s kids playing football in the US, they are trying to rank all the great players and fit them into a certain rating and it's impossible to get them all right. We know why 5 star guys are rated 5 stars, but at the same time a guy like Timmons who has been popular to talk about here lately or even Marcus last year, may get lower rated because of the competition they play against or they aren't an ideal height for their position etc. That could make the difference between a 3 or 4 star and a 5. I think another thing that the recruiting services can't quantify is heart, determination, work ethic, intensity etc. Intangibles can be quite important and that's why you'll get a guy who is a surprise like Hawk.
With all the flaws in the ranking system, seems we should simply celebrate the kids that are given offers and that want to be Buckeyes. Its nice to see recruiting interest in the future Buckeyes, but sort of silly to be negative to recruits not offered or interested in the Buckeyes.
Like any of us have rock hard prrof of future success or failure.
these days, as BTAlberts stated earlier, kids are being recruited before their junior year is even played. For an example, I was a 6'1" 193lb junior, the a 6'1" 215 lb senior and went to frosh college at 6'2" 227lbs. These kids have soo much time to grow, no need to get too carried away with such early established classes.
At most, the great Jim Tressel had 5 or 6 commits lined up before Fall practices started.
@JBGB That's a great way to put it. To be clear, I don't put all my eggs in the ratings basket. Mainly, I just trust the staff, and that's what we should all do until they show us otherwise. I really like Timmons, but he visited before Jacobs committed, so it's not like he wasn't on the staff's radar. Clearly they liked Jacobs better, and if they don't give Timmons that offer, then I'll trust that there's a good reason for that.
Johnblair I remember a few years ago reading about college basketball teams offering kids who were in 8th grade and being hot on the trail of freshman in high school and I remember thinking, Thank God football will never get to that point!!!! We'll, looks like I may have been wrong. Just in the last couple of years it's really taken a turn toward the younger players and we are to sophomores now. A lot of it has to do with the amount of money these sites are making.
A guy started his own sports blog in Cincinnati here, and tried to get it to take off on the premise that he would just have great content. Well, unfortunately it failed, but he hated recruiting coverage and said he was convinced the only websites out there making money were selling porn or recruiting information. It was kind of a joke, but as it turns out it's kind of true. Anyway, to get more eyeballs and people buying subscriptions they have to have more headlines, to get more headlines you gotta start evaluating younger guys and talking to them about where they want to go to school etc. Obviously, the public is eating it up.
I guess the days of hearing from Tom Lemming and Tom Lemming only.... 4 times a year...and his evaluation of recruiting classes was gosphel..... are long gone
Look, if you don't want others opinions don't post on a discussion board. I posted my opinion, that is all, don't get your panties in a bunch...
steensn, your response if filled with irony.
Waycrackin, basketball doesn't get it any more right than football does. Actually there are ALOT more 5* kids that don't make it to the NBA than there are kids in college football! I played basketball in the summer leagues in high school and one year Jim Jackson was on our team. He asked us what we wanted to do with out lives after college and of course all of us said that we wanted to play in the NBA. He said to us, of the thousands of kids who play high school basketball, only hundreds make it on a college team. Of those hundreds that make it on college teams, only 352 kids make it into the NBA! Thats a pretty sobering number!
2012 NFL 1st Rd: four 5*s. 13 4*s , 15 <3*s
Thats fine and all but your not considering that of the 352 of those kids that made it, most of them have been in the league much longer than the rookies. Some of them are from foreign countries and some of them don't even go to college. The numbers are simply greater for the NFL because each roster has more players. So statistically you could say that they are comparable. Thats the only point I'm trying to make.
For me it all starts with the defense. If Grant and Shazier play to their potential(Shazier put on 20 lbs!) behind what I expect to be the best Dline since 2002 then they will have an Excellent chance at 12-0. If the other team cannot score or take all game to get 14 they could and should win all those games. It will not be easy and I do not expect blowouts with the work-in-progress offense. The D should be elite... I really think they will play angry as there will be a lot of frustrastion about last season to get out. I would be very upset at anything less than 10 wins with this defense..
I never said others opinions shouldn't be shared or go somewhere else. I said I didn't like this one and questioned its need. I didn't tell anyone to go somewhere else or to not talk... i gave an opinion on the post.
Sorry to be off topic but STEENSN, is that an Alvarez? Yari?
Understood steensn. There has been a lot of comments in the forums here at 11W about why we are offering 3 star players......the original poster brought up some good points, and personally I think it's a good way to remind all of the fans that we shouldn't get too wound up over recruiting rankings.
If you feel the post is redundant, that's fine, but you don't have to be snarky about it (your post of "Your responce is filled with irony..." registered a little high on the passive agressive sarcasm scale.
How firm they friendship...
@Ken-Yon
4 or 5 star guys not included on that list from the last 10 years?
Maurice Clarett, Doug Datish, Nick Mangold, Bobby Carpenter, Nate Salley, Troy Smith, Quinn Pitcock, Mike Kudla, Anthony Gonzalez (as a DB, mind you), Donte Whitner, Ashton Youboty, Vernon Gholston, Ted Ginn, Antonio Pittman (was a 4* guy depending on where you checked), Marcus Freeman, Kurt Coleman, Thaddeus Gibson, Ross Homan, Beanie Wells, Cam Heyward, Boom Herron, Brian Rolle, Michael Brewster, Mike Adams, Terrelle Pryor, Nate Williams, DeVier Posey...I'll stop there just because the rest of the guys are on the team and it's unfair yet to list them even though they've already had major contributions (guys like CJ Barnett for example, who was a big time recruit). I left off a lot 4 or 5 star guys that contributed but included these fellas who were the major contributors to their teams.
Recruiting rankings aren't a perfect science but they certainly aren't totally useless like some have insinuated. You're more likely to hit a stud on a 4 or 5 star guy than you are a 3 star guy. Sure you can hit studs that are 3 stars and duds that are 4/5s...but playing the odds over time you're likely to hit more frequently on the higher rated recruits.
<---- light hearted, i dont have much aggression...
Taylor Highbalance, not many other guitars i like....
The real answer to the three star guys:
1) They missed out on the 4 and 5 star targets
2) Their second tier guys committed elsewhere, still available, allowed to committ after others dropped out.
3) These were the next guys the evaluated as talent in areas of need
Example at OL:
1) Lisle 4*, Johnson 5*, Pocic 4*, etc.
2) Finley 4*, Tillman 4*, Vanashek 3*
3) Gardner 3*, We'll likely take another OT hoping it is Johnson
Example at WR:
1) Treadwell 5*, Marshall 5* (IMO :) haha ), Foster 4*,
2) Gibbons 4*, Jacobs 3*, Allen 4*,
3) Who do we drop down to?
Example at LB:
1) Anzalone 4*, Neal 4*, J Smith 5*, Love 4*
2) Gibons 4*, Mitchell 4*, Lewis 3*
3) Haven't had to go to that level IMO yet.
The only 3* that would have been considered a "top" target was Sprinkle who was allowed to committ early. The other guys were opportunities taken after other top targets were out of the picture. The timing of offers and then them becoming committable seems to support this. We are "settling" for guys after top targets had been eliminated.
Waycracken, you posted that for the 2012 NFL draft, four 5 star's were drafted and thirteen 4 stars and 15, 3 stars were taken in the first round. You can't look at it based on hard numbers though. Look at the rivals rankings right now. In the rivals 250, 17 guys are 5 stars right now. The other 233 are 4 stars. Guys who aren't even on the 250 are rated 4 star, but if you take 4 out of 17 that's better than 21 percent. 14 out of 233 is what 5 or 6 percent? As I said there are far more than 233 four star players though and I'd venture to say there are JV and backups who could be classifed as 3 stars these days, so there are probably thousands of 3 stars out there.
So, that's how you have to look at it. There are literally 100's of 3 and 4 star players every year. There are between 10 and 20 rivals 5 stars every year.
^^^Both these pages are insane....all I have to say.^^^^^ WOW!
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
good times though. Really, who has more fun than people?
If Ryan Hamby catches Justin Zwick's pass in the endzone vs Texas, does Troy Smith see the field that year? Just a thought.
I'm sure he would've at some point during the season..talent always prevails!
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I say we have a good shot at going undefeated this year... 6 of the 7 losses last year were by a TD or less, a few plays here or there, actually having an offense/unleashing Miller more, we could have easily won 10-11 games last year with most of that team returning to this years squad... as well as next years team. Which is scary.
I think with an improved offense, all of our freshmen/sophmores who started or played a lot last year, getting another year of experience, lifting etc. will help them out tremendously. Our D should return to top 10 status, I can't wait to see Spence.. If Clowney could pull out 8 sacks as a freshmen in the SEC, than I expect Spence to put around the same # playing in the big10.
Anyways, I think we'll go at worst 10-2 this season, but I'm banking on 11-1/undefeated. With a top 3 ranking heading into the following year.
Oh and I suppose I'll answer something about this post... I don't really look to much into rankings. One site could not rank a guy, another could have him as a 3 star and another could have him as a 4 star... It's just all opinions based on measurables, lifting/running numbers, and how well they do at camps. But until you actually put them in a game against even competition, you're really just guessing. (besides the obvious gems of each class) Also, I think the lower ranked players work harder than most of the 4/5 stars which is why you see a lot of them becoming stars, especially at OSU. I mean depending on the recruiting service you look at, in terms of 3 star players alone, in recent years OSU has had a (3*) player win the Heisman, Thrope, Butkus, Bednarik, Lombardi, and other awards to go along with multiple 1st team all american nods, etc. So it just depends, how the kid is coached/taught, how hard he works, and how far his own athleticism will take him. Among other factors.
Extreme optimism there, impressive!! Don't let yourself down with such high expectations coming off of the worst year in forever, with a new coaching staff and new offensive regime. Although anything is possible you have to be realistic. We haven't gone undefeated in 10 years!! With all the great Tressel teams loaded with nfl talent we had 1 undefeated year, ONE!
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
2 undefeated years in the past 43years of football...
@ nuts4bucks-
I'm trying to imagine Zwick getting tossed about by Puzluznky(sp?) and Tomba Hali in Happy Valley. Yeah, Smith would have seen the field in 2005.
@johnblairgobucks - I was at that game in Happy Valley! Our O line got detroyed, Troy Smith had no where to go the whole night. It's the only away game I have been to that we have lost. I remember walking back to my car and Penn State fans calling me every name in the book. I have hated PSU with a passion ever since.
By the way I agree that Troy would of ended up starting, it was just a thought.