Recently, negative and quarrelsome behavior have take over this forum. I watch it unfold and cannot help but wonder, why? It seems as though the majority of the issues stem from recruiting...but, has Meyer not already, at least on recruiting boards, matched Tress? There are a lot of die hard Tress supporters that refuse to move forward. Jim Tressel is a clear cut number # coach to this point in our history, behind only the legendary Woody Hayes. That isn't even disputable. Unfortunately (very), that's over. We go through a seemingly endless period of hell with this scandal...with nothing to look forward to. Then, Urban Meyer. He may not have a reserved place in the hearts of buckeye fans (yet) like Tress, but we all know what he is capable of (he whooped our asses). Yet, for some reason we feel the need to complain about meaningless crap before he coaches a game? Who would you rather lead this team than Meyer. I have little doubt that Meyer will at least, and most likely surpass, Tress. I love Jim Tressel, but Urban Meyer is Urban Meyer.
^^^^^^ well said
seems to me some fans, want all the top ohio kids to play at osu, and no where else. some seem to think only ohio produces elite players. and to be sure, ohio is a fertile state when it comes to high school talent, however, there are other states which produce as much if not more talent. myself, i dont care where urban gets players, i want the best possible class no matter where the kids come from. i am a tress fan, he got one title playing in the weaker conference in comparison to the SEC. whereas urban won two titles playing the majority of his games against the SEC. and as for the team in ann arbor, if it wasnt for ohio kids, they would have a worthless team year after year, and we wouldnt have a rivalry with them. if i had to chose which coach i want, it has to be urban, based on winning two titles in the best conference of the past 6 or 7 years. oh and by the way, ROLL TIDE ROLL, crush aacc. 70 to 0 would please me greatly. nah make it 84 to 0. yeah
I will admit, I can be overly negative at times when I get frustrated. I just type out what I'm thinking regardless of trying to think it out first. One thing I absolutely, completely & utterly loathe; Michigan getting top-rated commits from our own home state. I absolutely hate it. Ohio is their lifeline. Sometimes I think that these kids who choose Michigan over Ohio State must be mentally deranged. Those kids are the biggest traitors to the entire state of Ohio and should be banished permanently from ever stepping foot in the state again. Sorry I feel that way but I don't know if there is any one else on the planet who hates and despises Michigan more than me.
Other than that, I think we're missing/anticipating football season to get here. We need to see the Silver Bullets flying around the field & Urban walking out of the tunnel for the first time at tOSU.
yeah i hate it too, what would that team up north do if they couldnt get ohio kids. it sucks they have to come to ohio in order to field a competent team. i despise that team up there. gawd i hope bama lays an old fashion stomping on them. bama cant beat them bad enough to please me.
I think for some there is a fear that failing to pursue Ohio kids not only makes them available to our rival schools but also puts a chip on their shoulder when Ohio State doesn't come calling. I am just speculating here but that's my thoughts about it anyway. Like some have said, there is plenty of other elite talent in other parts of the country and in some years talent better than anything that comes out of Ohio. It doesn't matter to me where it comes from as long as once they are here they bleed scarlet and gray.
Our honor defend we will fight to the end for Ohio..
I think Meyer's national-then-local strategy will be a measurable talent boon for the Big Ten as a whole. The bottom line as I see it, is more talent coming into the conference. We'll be taking a few more players each year from other states. And in turn, maybe some of those Ohio kids will stay close and go to UM, MSU,
PSU, etc.I think it's arguable that putting a fence around Ohio would maintain a larger talent gap between us and the other conference teams, but also keep us from being the best of the best. At the same time, I think Meyer's recruiting focus raises our team ceiling and, indirectly, those of our rivals.
My ultimate hope is that if the conference becomes more competitive, we will have greater success against the SEC in the coming years.
The reason I stopped posting on scout and 247 was because of all of the negativity and the tough guys hiding behind their keyboards. Although there is some negativity here it's no where close to other sites. Even the Michigan fans here are respectful and have excellent info/opinions that they share.
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men
A lot of it comes from that being the nature of message boards. Everyone has their favorite etc. Some people think Spence is going to come in and play 70% of the snaps by week 3; i'm a little more cautious in my feelings on that. If he does and he's the best, then great. But All the guys he'll be leaping were top 15 recruits in the country at that position when they were in high school too.
And I think the Big X was actually the strongest conference in the country in 2002, when OSU won it all. They went 5-1 in their bowl games (I'm pretty sure) with the only loss being Iowa to USC in the Rose. See we could squabble about that, and that's part of what a message board is.
I do hate the sky is falling mentality; OSU is going to have lower classes than Michigan if they are similar recruits and OSU has to take 3 less a year...
I really think Hoke's recruiting streak will come to a screaching halt if Urban hangs a hundy on him this year. I know that's not really realistic, but if we completely dismantle TTUN this year, I'd look for some of those prized recruits to start looking elsewhere.
"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."
not to be a Debby Downer, but if everyone on this site kept preaching happiness and being positive then real, honest opinions here wouldnt exist. I think the over-negativity can get agitating but if its how someone feels then go for it...Also, this is a sports website, if you think this is bad, go to a Forum site for a New York professional team or an SEC team, things are either the same or worse there. This is what happens with success, you pay more attention to detail and not screwing with that success. If something is out of place, people get bothered and speak their minds. I think we all learned that fairy-tale lands of constant happiness/positivity do not exist and believing that everything is 'good enough' doesnt happen, not at place like Ohio State. If one wishes to partake in hugs for something minute, then Im sure the Washington State bandwagon could use a few riders these days.
I think the negativity comes mostly from the site exploding in popularity, and the people it's drawing in. I've noticed a lot of folks who say they are in high school or have just started at Ohio State etc, and I don't remember that in the past. Used to very rarely have people arguing or guys trying to make other people look stupid, and now it happens all the time. It may not be as bad other sites, but it's getting there. It used to be a great community that I looked forward to coming to, now it's just meh. It's getting worse all the time too. I guess that's the price of fame though. You can hardly read a comment section anymore without some sort of argument because someone commented and then someone else came up with a smart assed response. Then there's 20 some comments arguing back and forth.
I don't know, it's troubling to me as I've come to this site pretty much since day 1. I find myself viewing the site and commenting a lot less frequently now than I used to. I've also noticed that a lot of folks who have commented on here for a long time don't come around as much as they used to either. It's unfortunate, but like other sites, this one will have growing pains.
The content is improving at least, just a shame the comments are going down hill so fast.
Relax bro
- Respect the Rivalry -
Fromthe18, it's not the negativity that is so bad, it's the disrespect. Last year before 11w blew up, we had plenty of debates about the direction of the program, and whether Fickell should stay the coach etc. There were plenty of people stating their opinions but having a nice discussion about it. Sure sometimes it may have crossed the line, but today there's not the fun debate back and forth.
NC Buckeye and I used to disagree every day about the coaching situation and it basically always stayed civil. Irricoir and I used to disagree daily about Terrelle Pryor. Again, 2 guys with different opinions who actually respected eachother. Now a days, if you have an opinion people don't like, you get called out, people make smart assed comments, and all it does is fire ya up and it ends up in a 20 comment immature fight back and forth. A lot has changed here in 18 months, and it's certainly not all for the better.
MOD: Well said. Respect the person you disagree with.
Yah, not sure I agree. Negativity can be a good thing and spark conversation. Just as long as we aren't attacking each other or making people feel unwelcome then I'm okay with a little negativity. The comments I feel have improved since I joined the site less than a year ago (may be a product of great new content).
BT - Do things change when school starts? I have only been around since December and it did become different this summer.
Everything BTalbert said.
I don't regularly post on forums or articles because of the pointless arguing and endless put-downs. This site was different. Not so much anymore, but it's an impossible task to keep it in check. I'd like to say it was better when it was not as popular, but I came in at what looked like the beginning of the mass expansion last June, so that would be a tad hypocritical of me. But I've noticed some of the legacy posters not around as much, which is too bad.
@BTALBERT - Those comments should be added to the 11-Dub commenting policy.
Too many softies in here.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
Lou Groza, honestly I have no idea. I think the sanctions and stuff made 11w popular, but the Urban Meyer hiring and 11w getting mentioned in the media a lot, made it explode. So honestly, I really don't know what the impact from school in session will be. I'm not even sure if that's what is going on, I mean it only takes a couple of people acting like A-holes to ruin the fun for everyone. With the addition of all the new blood in the last year, I'm sure more than a few of them have abrasive personalities.
It's Bucknuts part 2. Popularity brings everyone.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
JasonBuck, my opinions last year about the coaching situation came off as negative all the time, where I was really just trying to say it needed to change. It's not negativity that's bad. It's the lack of respect for others that just is out of hand in my opinion. Anyway, just my thought. As I said, I've been coming around here for 5+ years, there's a huge difference today than there was back then. Some for the good, content is better, the site layout is much better, there's definitely a lot of positives.
Only thing I have to say for people who keep saying, you should go to Bucknuts and see the coments or check out 247 commenting sections, is this site is headed that way. In 5 years, we could all be on another blog saying go to 11w and see how their comment section is and you won't complain about this blog. It really has changed that much in the last year or so. It's inevitable really, that's the last I'll mention the topic though as I've given my opinion.
Do your own part to not become a part of it. That's all you can do right now. I think the Mods on here have done a good job, but it can be overwhelming I'm sure. I think at some point more Mods will have to be added, but for now they do what they can to keep up. The benefits of the popularity still far outweigh the burdens IMHO. I think there will be growing pains with any large change, but I think it will level back out. The people who you don't want to read their comments will stay in the forums that you can easily avoid or gloss over only. Then there will be good forum topics and good blog posts and the front page. Idiots/trolls are amongst us all the time and will be more so on the internet, but ignoring them until they get tired and go away or are banned is a small price to pay for great Buckeye news, notes, and discussions that happen on here in between small fights. See the forrest through the trees, rose colored glass, etc.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
I agree with Jason...too many sensitive ppl that can't take it. It's not just softies, it's the way ppl get upset or go on attack mode over words on a screen or opinions that lets face it, really don't matter. I find it funny how some ppl stick up for the sensitive ones as well (especially the tTUN fans that for some reason come here to be opinionated but they're not start anything though...sure). I agree with most here...opinions are like aholes...everyone has one. I try not to take the bait anymore...makes it easier to come here if you don't...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
I love you all, and Urban, and Tress.
No homo, unless you're into that sorta thing. Seriously though, we are all here b/c we love tOSU. Let's not forget that.Edit: 11W is not into that sorta comment. Thanks, Pam
"we are all here because we love tOSU, let's not forget that"
Unless you're MMan or Hail2thevictors..or any other fan from another school trolling.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
Not that MMAn and Hail are trolls.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I agree with you all. I just hope that the national recruiting scheme doesn't hurt us too much when we end up missing out on a few of those recruits. Is it just me, or is it much more difficult to pull in those out of state studs? I just fear that not recruiting the Ohio kids as hard in the beginning hurts when we miss out on some of our national targets. I sometimes think that a more midwest recruiting approach gives us a better chance at pulling in top prospects that already like OSU in the first place.
EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY
I agree with btalbert...I have been a long time reader of this site for four years but rarely post. The regular posters on here now definitely belittle new members that are just trying be friendly and join in the conversation. Like when someone posts a thread about the latest update on recruit Bob Smith and 5 people have something negative to say about the poster's lack of knowledge with the format of the site. I'm sorry but is that really necessary?
With that said, I think a lot of the negativity will decrease when we can all watch football. Although I am sure the keyboard warriors will still show their dominance.
Commenter on commenter crime came up a lot during our reader survey and it's a priority for us. How do we solve this? Do we make more of you (especially you old-timers) moderators?
I don't care if it costs us traffic, I don't want dicks on this site.
What's it take to become a moderator? Not that I'll kid myself into thinking it would require me to be on here more than I already am.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
I feel some people just need to adhere to the old rule of stepping back from the keyboard and calm down before they post on 11W. Angry responses almost never end well.
Let's just all do more reading and thinking and less doing anger all the time
Taquitos.
Jason-
Anyone check to see if there is a correlation between age and the offending behaviour? It seems the most vocal, and the most vehement posters are the youngest. I remember being a young hothead. I remember when I knew everything and was always right. I remember when anyone who disagreed with me was not only wrong but automatically an a$$hole and deserving only of my strongest vitirol. Some of us seem to remain forever young in this arena.
Aside from an age requirement to post (which would be ridiculous/wrong) how about some sort of "karma" or "like" system so commenters could reward good comments and or identify ones that were not acceptable? Let the Young Turks, or old grumpy guys, the ones whose phasers are always set to BLAST, i.e. the "dicks", weed themselves out?
Get enough negative karma and the mods get to decide whether to give you a vacation or not.
I've had two people just today take major issue with things I posted for virtually no reason. One guy tried to say that my Forum post about Lane Kiffin was disrespectful to the hard work of the writers on this site because it was also a Buckshot...despite the fact that my forum post came up BEFORE the Buckshot and dealt with a completely different interpretation of the story. And in that said Buckshot, I voiced displeasure with all the hate being extended towards shady college coaches, simply from the point of view that Ohio State and Urban Meyer are no strangers to "shady" behavior...nor is any college coach for that matter. Well, there's some guy on there who took that REALLY personally for some reason because he REALLY doesn't like being "told what to do."
Can't win. You initiate a topic of your own choosing, and someone attacks you. You take part in the same topic and someone different attacks you for a different reason.
I do agree with an above comment that people take to seriously words on the screen over the internet from someone you don't know at all. There have been instances over the years where things have been ugly. I specifically remember 2 guys talking about meeting at the parking lot of the rose bowl and fighting a couple of years ago. That was well before this site became the HUGE site it has become. That stuff is silly. I don't take anything to heart, but at the same time I do come here because over the years, I've enjoyed coming on and talking to the same people about this team for literally years. I don't personally know anyone on this site, but over they years I have very much enjoyed discussing and debating the team with familiar names.
All the growing pains have not been bad by the way. If not for the wild popularity of the site we wouldn't have the forums and blog posts. A lot of new commentors have brought a lot of great discussion and content to the site. Just as an observer who has been around a long time things have taken a turn for the worse in terms of the commentariat. Call me thin skinned or soft, that's fine, certainly your opinion.
At what point though, does saying who cares it's the internet, turn the comment sections it Eff you's and Yo Mamma type comments you see the Lowest Common Denominator make on other sites. At a certain point it just becomes a look at me, I said something crazy and now people are riled up. Then the comment section basically has no value and is just a bunch of people trolling and saying outrageous stuff because well, It's the internet, who cares?
Jason, I appreciate your concern for the problem as well. I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest with you. More mods could cause problems too. People have different levels of sensitivity and different opinions about what's offensive and what is ok. If you add a few mods and they start removing and editing posts that may not go over very well either.
I'm glad it's a problem you guys have concerns about, that's one reason it's always been so good to come around, you all value your reader's opinions and actually care what we think!
"This is why we can't have any nice things".
Thats a tough spot. Part of the beauty of this community was that I could indulge my insatiable buckeye news appetite and talk about the latest current events in college sports. It would be a shame for that to change.
Its definitely going to be a challenge to moderate negativity. One person's negative interpretation of a comment could be another's realistic interpretation. Random suggestion would be to maybe implement a thumbs up/thumbs down feature on comments. Give the "top" commenter some sort of benefit (free t-shirt/moderator privileages/article on 11w/just throwing out random ideas). For negative comments, determine a thumbs down threshold per day/week that would disable commenting for a certain period of time. That way the community is more self-regulated and doesnt overload the staff with moderating duties.
Good luck, though and GO BUCKS!
Let's at least take some solace in the fact that we're still the Hyde Park Steak House when you compare to Mgoblog's Waffle House in the world of classy forum posting.
I don't think you even need to reward top commentors, I think you just give them point values, let people up or down them and I can tell if a guy who's been here 1 month and has negative points is someone I should ignore and not read much of the posts from. Likewise, good contributors gain points and respect. It's not hard to just ignore posts, even if they are attacking you or something you said or believe in.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
@Bucksfan I like that idea, but it doesn't combat the aforementioned sensitivity issues. If posters downvote other posters just for engaging in discussion over a disagreement, then it won't promote healthy debate.
I think we may be overlooking the simplest part of the commenting policy. Don't be a jerk. It's fine and good to have differing opinions, but don't take personal shots at the person. And God forbid someone puts a forum post in the wrong forum and we suddenly have a couple people starting a lynchmob. We're not all going to agree on all topics and that's what makes the back and forth so interesting, but there is no need for the crap that's been posted lately.
Fan of bacon since 1981
Any "voting" on commentors would have to be by a specific group of well established or proven members. A group of five or ten review issues from the day that developed. They put in their two cents and if someone was deemed to have been out of line, banhammer them for one week. Second violation two weeks. Third out for a year. Just a thought.
I have three college aged kids and I can tell you for sure that they know EVERYTHING, as we all did. They usually regret it later when they wrongfully let this be known as well. Being retired I started getting on here for sanity that is getting harder to find. My son says he's done with it because of the issues.
BUCKSFANXC - Agreed with your perspective. Probably keeping this site as much the same as it currently is probably best. (Although I have to sheepishly admit that I am a rubber necker, and if you tell me not to look at something it makes me all the more curious to know what that is. Admittedly my fault for indulging the curiosity though). I only suggested a "reward" as a means to keep page views/commenting consitent to mitigate against any reduced readership as a result of backlash from any increased censoring. But, if you don't censor, you don't really need to mitigate against it, either.
Ding Ding Ding, Nappy nailed it! The problem isn't negativity. No one is suggesting this be like North Korea where everyone smiles and agrees and says everything is wonderful for fear of being eliminated from the community. Differing opinions, some that are negative about the team are obviously welcome and create good discussion. It's when people are jerks that things become uncomfortable and not much fun.
^ agreed. that is exactly it nappy. bingo.
I know there's a game saturday, and my ass will be there.
My comment is only about the use of social media as a whole with regards to sensitivities and jerk like behavior.
First, unless written carefully, and even then, a reader can interpret the writer's intentions differently than what they really are. This can be due to the writer's choice of words, profile picture, user name or even the reader's mood. Sometimes it can be due to the voice in the reader's head that might apply a sarcastic / snotty tone that may never have been intended. I know that is how I read most of the comments on 11W. (jk)
The other portion that can lead to jerk like behavior is the impersonal nature of social media. Commenter's just don't see that there is a person on the other end reading their comments and they don't care. Social media allows a person to feel anonymous allowing them to act in a manner they otherwise wouldn't normally. If you don’t have to see the results of your behavior, then there is nothing that will make you feel guilty. I really struggle with this one a lot with regards to my kids and texting. As an example, my son has a lot more courage texting girls than he does talking to them at school. His texts are a lot more direct with regards to sexual innuendos and derogatory comments than what he is willing to do face to face. Shoot, girls started sending him pictures of themselves in bikinis in the 8th grade! His behavior / personality changes when he can hide behind the keys on his phone. This is something my wife and I have attempted to work on with him, what we like to call Jekyll and Hyde type behavior. This seems to be really common with the younger generation since they don’t have years of experience to guide their behavior and create consistency.
With the above being said, I guess I could actually be considered exhibit A of the courage gained by relative anonymity in the intersphere. Would I have the courage to go to the middle of cbus to an Ohio State fan gathering wearing my Michigan gear? Heck no, but here I am doing the equivalent on the internet. Why? Because the anonymity I am offered and with the disconnect I feel by no longer living in the B1G footprint as my motivation. Visiting Michigan sites, 11W, TOC, and others help me feel connected to my team, its rivalries, and the B1G, since I live in an environment where people just don’t care as much about them as I do. Visiting and experiencing the various forums help me to continue to feel invested. Even then, I try to comment little and be respectful while on another team’s sites since I am a guest.
"Commenter on commenter crime" lol...
UP WITH HOPE! DOWN WITH DOPE!
Wherever you are, there you be!
I love 11W and prefer it to other sites, but perhaps making forums like other sites (a place for discussion and opposite opinions) where they are set further apart from the main news stories. Let comments and arguments be placed in an area where you need to be a memeber to access (qualifications obviously are dependent on how the staff feels). This would avoid mainstream 'negativity' and allow the news to be presented as is without being manipulated by layers of comments; while at the same time creating an environment where discussion can be held between us visitors/members. Simply my take.
If there was an upvote downvote feature, it would have to have a safeguard to where you have to reach a certain number of points to be able to moderate these things. The only thing that worries me as I say this, is that it's sounding more and more like mgoblog
I think what would solve this problem is the ability to block certain users so that you wont be able to read their posts or have them read yours. 82.6 percent of people on here are cool... the others (you know who you are) just start arguments for no apparent reason, happens on every thread. It could be a thread about something everybody likes, for instance: pizza. Then User-X starts an argument over New York or Chicago style. (New York wins of course haha)
^ I actually really like that idea. My only issue would be that once you block a frequent poster, you wouldn't be able to follow the conversation and possibly be fairly redundant if you can't see things others are posting.
or we could just remember that we have testicles. either/or. whatever.
hgvyt54trtfvt56
@JASON
Perhaps, Jason, it's just a matter of all of us (and I consider myself a newbie) being willing to call out someone being a dick. Doesn't have to be inflammatory - just a willingness on the part of all of us who value this incredible site, to say "Hey, we don't do that on this site. Keep it civil, polite, and intelligent. All opinions are welcome here, but peronal attacks are not." Welcome all the newcomers, help people learn to navigate the site, and keep 11W the best site out there.
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
don't be gigglef***s.
hgvyt54trtfvt56
@Buckeyevet, Not sure how some would feel, but I hope everyone here knows they're welcome to let me know if im crossing the line with my cynicism. Feel free to call me a dick, or tell me that I'm being offensive and I'll take that more to heart than when I say something sarcastic like I tend to and then people get inflammatory and make it worse.
I think what most are referring to is attacking some ones "opinions." That seems to be what I don't understand...some ppl like to just leave a comment on an article or blog and move on. While others will go on attack mode to make a point or in retort...unnecessary IMO. Agreeing, Disagreeing, or agreeing to disagree is one thing...but this constant back and forth is stupid...(which I myself have been guilty of in the past) especially when we're all just Buckeye fans. I don't think making Moderators is a problem...I'm not sure if that will stop it though. The tTUN fans coming here is a topic for another day...but that one is strange to me. I have no hate towards them or don't think they should be banned (i was actually kidding about that a while back but ppl get so sensitive sometimes). I just wish opinions could be left at that...and not over analyzed.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
I don't know exactly who the MODs here are (staff or just members). However, my idea is that the staff can pick a few of the frequent posters who are relatively level headed some type of mod with only one extra function. These mods could tag a user or a thread, and if 2-3 of them do so, the user, thread, or user/thread would be locked for a few hours, until a regular staff or mod could look at it and weigh in. This combines policing with regulars with not giving them too much power, and if there's any type of war going on, it would be stopped quickly (compared to staff stepping in by themselves).
The IT guys could also build the staff a special page, like tracker, where you could see which threads have received tags recently, depending on how important/costly it is. Cheers.
It would be great if everyone could simply talk respectfully & if our opinions vary - then do so in a manner that doesn't degrade anyone. I have civil disagreements regularly. Reading a different view is one of the reasons I'm on here so much. I'd love it if the place didn't have to be over-monitored & folks could just use their brains a bit more. On the other hand - it may get hostile here sometimes but generally speaking it's still the most civil sports blog I've been on -Buckeye or otherwise... I found this site during the Urban Meyer hire like many people and damn glad I did!
I believe a good portion of the hostility will calm down in about two weeks right around September 1...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.