PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
•Football Schedule•Basketball Schedule•Forum•About•ContactTake a couple minutes to read through these comments.....funny how so many SCUM fans lose their moral high ground and will their way into justifying why Fitzgerald Toussaint shouldn't miss the game against Alabama.
God I hate those people.
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/fitz-being-prepared-play-bama
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Objectivity is rare in College Football, To be honest I am sometimes just as guilty of this as the next guy.
What are you talking about? I read most of the comments on that thread and there were MAYBE 2 or 3 ppl who have their heads in the sand...the rest were pretty clear in the belief that Fitz should be suspended. Heck, one poster even called out the few idiots and asked how they would feel if it were an MSU or OSU player. The only justification I see is to let him practice until the legal proceedings play out...which is the same thing we did/are doing with Dunn.
Post like this inspire 11W readers to go on SCUM blogs and, in a moment of weakness, can't help but comment. Which is exactly what we don't want them doing on our site. Just sayin'
Looks to me like the majority think he shouldn't play. I hate tsun as much as the next guy but seems like most of those comments are calling for the guy to sit.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Agreed Zach - but there certain schools out there (Notre Dame is one of them) that justify their lack of recent success as having to do with "higher standards" or something to that extent, and how they won't stoop to anyone else's level.
I think we are guilty of it to a degree as well (SEC OVERSIGNING RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE)
I think it's curious to see nobody commenting on Kenny Hayes and possibly Adam Bellamy leaving the program......if we were looking at Alabama, we would be commenting on how Saban "forced" those guys out in order to make room for more scholarships.
How firm they friendship...
Agree that I was surprised how many comments favored sitting them.
And, before we get all high and mighty, have we all forgotten that two players missed no game time after DUI's under Tressel?
@Commandhead....
yeah you're right,..I guess Krenzel didn't start against and beat TSUN in 01.
As far as I'm concerned TTUN can do whatever they please with their drunks. Hoke proved last year with Stonum he wasn't messing around and he'll boot a star player. If he wants them back on the team and lets them play, so be it.
He didn't boot Stonum until the summer after he had yet another infraction. He redshirted him initially. Strange penalty in mind.
fair enough, he was actually dismissed in January but minor difference.
I did mean he suspended him for the year, anyhow..he definitely came down on him.
@OSU07, yes, I am right. Both Boone and Worthington did not miss a game after their DUI arrests. I guess Tressel got soft. Or maybe he was just looking for an excuse to bench Bellisari.
Forgout about Bellisari's DUI. That guy was a heck of a special teams player but turned out to be a bad choice at QB.
How firm they friendship...
They seem very polarized on it. What's surprising is just how much the ones trying to rationalize it sound exactly like Penn State fans.
This will sound weird, but it is an interesting notion...
How would you guys propose to penalize Toussaint? It would be a rule, obviously, that would be imposed on an OSU starting tailback under the same or similar cirucmstances.
I gotta say, it makes me think, when I consider the nature of the suspension that Posey lived with last year, compared to a DUI offense.
"Suspended for all of November" is not going to be an acceptable answer, btw. ;-) But I'll listen to anything else. It would be interesting, wouldn't it, for there to be a kind of B1G court of athletic justice, where Stoneburner would be judged by Dantonio, Pellini, Ferentz, and Fitzgerald? And Toussaint would be judged by Beilema, Meyer, O'Brien and Wilson? Penalties would get standardized and handed down evenly by opposing coaches, knowing that their own guys would get the same.
So for now I'll let you guys judge. What penalty for Toussaint? (He is 21, btw, and can legally drink.) The team was out of season, and there was no team rule against him having a drink at that time. Obviously illegal for him to have a breathalyzer result above .08 and get behind the wheel. Deserving of legal and athletic punishment. Decide. Discuss.
I think they should make him clean the skid marks out of Hokes speedo after a 7 day buffet binge with nothing but his own toothbrush and then have to use said toothbrush the remainder of the season ( without rinsing). All the while wearing a cone on his head that simply reads
D
U
M
B
A
S
S
If Michigan wasn't playing Alabama in the first game we wouldn't even be having this discussion, he would be suspended immediately for the string of cupcakes everyone typically schedules at the beginning of the year and back for the Big Ten schedule.
M Man: I'm not familiar with the particulars, but it seems like a one-game suspension is about right for a first offense DUI not involving any other "aggravating" circumstances.
But what's the deal as far as trial/fines, etc.? Is Touissant disputing the charge in court? I would be concerned about a precedent in which a player disputes such a charge, plays against a high-level opponent in the opener, then pleads and/or pays the fine knowing the team is about to play three directional teams - i.e., a better stretch of games in which to take the one-game game suspension.
Sit out for two games. I don't give a crap that it was "only" .12. Some fool idiot on a Michigan board said that DWI was a victimless crime. But then again, my best friend's (and father to two young daughters) wonderful husband was killed by a drunk driver who crossed the center line and and into a head-on collision. The SOB drunk only had a few bruises and scratches. My friend's husband died on the operating table before my friend could say goodbye or even see him. OK, stepping away...
I think it's a damn shame Posey got 10 games and Toussaint may get none. We have a priority problem.
What should have happened is Posey getting 3 games and FT should get 4-5. But punishments in college sports don't make any common sense.
And that goes for anyone on Ohio State as well. Bellisari should have never played another down. If Braxton gets a DUI, it's Kenny Guiton's show for a few games.
That's just it. DUI is the one offense that could involve many innocents to the highest degree. On top of that the fact that youngsters look at the college players as role models, warranted or not. Any player any time a DUI conviction should be a 4 game suspension.
@M Man
I think 2 games is about right these days for a DUI. As mentioned above, it can go from victimless to horrific in a nanosecond of chaos. And it was in AA right? The campus is not that big, WHY U DRIVE? Any ballplayer should get the automatic designated-driver treatment from his classmates. But then the NCAA would blow up your program for altruistic-riding or impermissible safety or something...What was I saying? 2 games. Gotta let the team know this crap really does not fly.
"I 've got an El Camino full of rampage"-- Sterling Archer, codename: Duchess
The Toussaint arrest occurred during the Ann Arbor Art Fair; a big local weeklong citywide party with lots of crazy traffic. There were no egregious extenuating circumstances. No accidents, injuries, etc. He had a paintball gun in the car, that resulted in no addittional charges. There was a traffic violation (red light) that led to the stop. Interestingly, it was not Ann Arbor police but rather 'borrowed' officers from nearby Saline, helping to back up Ann Arbor police for the Art Fair. And for some reason, Toussaint will thereby go to court outside of Ann Arbor, in Saline. There is some sort of preliminary examination that will occur just days before the Alabama game. My guess is that Toussaint will plea to the least possible charge at the earliest possible opportunity. And that until he does that, he will not play. Whether it is one, two, three or more games.
Frank Clark, one of our guys from Cleveland Glenville, is in trouble too. A home invasion charge that is complicated by an alleged theft of a laptop. A serious charge, but very murky facts. Perhaps a tougher case to figure out than Toussaint. It may take much longer to resolve, which is bad for Clark.
Whoa! Fellow buckeye's slow down a little with the crucify him theme. I am pretty sure we had a couple of players get DUI's and never missed a game. My post above was half meant to be funny and half serious. Make him run, miss practices, humiliate him in some way as to reinforce what a mega stupid decision he made to drink and drive. After that I say play him in all the games if accepts and fulfill's the punishment. JMO
I'm not crucifying him. IF he ran a red light and was over the legal limit, he was a danger to others and himself. Period. Quite frankly, I would have docked our guys for DUIs also.
by "so many" scUM fans, do you mean the few who thought he should play? The vast majority seem to strongly favor sitting him. Stupid thread.
Rambo, Did you even read the comments? The thread you posted sounds nothing like you mention, and in turn, makes you sound like an idiot. Is that how you want yourself and OSU fans to be percieved?
First DUI, legal drinking age, no other incident, blew only a .12 - I'd say give him one game. Repeat incidents get more games. Any other incidents during the stop would lead to more games.
Those fans seem to be pretty rational. Refreshing, after seeing all these State Penn fans defend a coach who had a hand in covering child sex abuse, to see Michigan fans mostly on-board with suspending Fitz for a season opener against Alabama over a DUI.
Class of 2010.
@Dirtybuck
Thats the thing. I don't agree with them not getting any suspensions for a DUI. A DUI is a very serious charge and should bring AT LEAST a one game suspension. I dont care if Tressel was easy on some of our guys, he was not right for doing that.
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
@M Man,
Because you guys are playing Bama, and that is why this is such a huge discussion, I say let him play.
Maybe sit him for the first series, quarter, etc...not "start" him for the first 4 games or something along those lines.
I don't think he's a bad player and I don't think Hoke is a bad guy coach. I'm not going to sit here and act like he shouldn't play because of a DUI when we have had players pay minimally for DUIs at our program.
I'm a big fan of sitting a guy for 3 games for DUI, regardless of who he plays for or what position. In all actuality, i think a DUI should be grounds for dimissal and no chance at a scholarship at another school. Same as theft and assault. The NCAA should be more worried about teaching these kids how to be men, and not worry about "protecting the integrity of amatuer sportsmanship" and whatever they claim they do to make a bucketload of money of these kids.
-The Aristocrats!
Leon Festinger approves of this forum.
For the record, the fact that we are playing Alabama makes it all the more important that Toussaint should be suspended, in my view.
Player punishment can be handled in a variety of ways, with or without game suspensions. I have no doubt that the seriousness of what Toussaint did can be impressed on him with or without his participation in a game against Alabama.
But what is also of importance is that the public understand that the public perception of the program will be protected, by suspensions if necessary. And that in a team sport, you can get yourself suspended and thereby let down your teammates and fans.
I am one of what I think is a majority of Michigan fans who think that Toussaint should not play against Alabama, and that if Hoke does anything else, he will need a damn good explanation.
Jaggs,
I wasn't pointing out who is in favor and who is not, I was pointing out the slow creeping justification that goes on in college football (even at moral high ground schools like TSUN)....with rationale that "a DUI isn't that bad" or it "occurred early enough that it doesn't have to cost a game."
The comment you posted sounds nothing like my original topic, and in turn, makes you sound like an internet raged loser. Is that how you want yourself and internet posters to be percieved?
How firm they friendship...
I think that Toussaint should play against Alabama and take his beating like the rest of 'em.
Rambo - Stop man...don't try to justify the reason you started this thread. Its quite clear what you meant. You got called out by MANY ppl for jumping to conclusions without actually reading the comments and you are now trying to make this into a "college football issue"(notice you only mentioned ONE school though) at schools with "high moral ground" rather than what you intended...a slight towards UM. No big deal, we all have said/done things without thinking but you look foolish trying to backtrack and turn this into a different topic than what was obviously intended.
Cincy - Stop man...don't try to justify your comments by insinuating you can read people's minds. Because you can't. No big deal, we have all tried.
How firm they friendship...
First time DUI= 5 games.
Second DUI= Gone, off the team.
This goes for any college player, I don't care if they're a Buckeye, Wolverine, or Trojan; drunk driving recklessly endangers everyone else on the road.
Why don't coaches just come up with a list of punishments for all the infractions they can think of and then just let the team know what they are. Then there is no grey area. Everyone is treated the same. Underage drinking charge? Just consult the chart. Maybe it says mandatory 16 hours community service, 1 game suspension, and 2 weeks of 4:30 am conditioning. Something like that.
That wouldn't be a bad idea.
How firm they friendship...
Rambo - I'm not reading minds...I am reading what you wrote and also reading the link you directed all of us to. Try if you must, but everyone knows what you meant...its clearly conveyed in your original words.
I have no problem with subjective punishments. Meyer himself said that Stoney and Mewhort would have been worse off had they been screw ups most of the time.
In this case I think there has to be some level of suspension to show that representing your school on the football field is a privledge that can be taken away if you mess up like this. One game, two games somewhere in that range seems appropriate.
Cincy - the title of my post starts with the two words Cognitive Dissonance.......on purpose. I'm generally not into having an argument with anonymous people on the internet. It's not my thing. Especially when it comes to the intentions of my actions, and how those two are perceived to be intertwined by said anonymous people. So this is all I'll write on the subject. If you want to continue this discussion please PM me.
From wikipedia:
The theory of cognitive dissonance in social psychology proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by altering existing cognitions, adding new ones to create a consistent belief system, or alternatively by reducing the importance of any one of the dissonant elements.
*Notre Dame, TSUN, and Penn State (until recently) all exemplify this behavior towards Ohio State. In turn, most non-SEC schools, including Ohio State, exemplify this behavior towards the SEC. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
Now take another look at the TSUN comments. Yes, many of them are in favor of benching Fitz. But take a look at those who are on the fence. And tell me what is happening there.
How firm they friendship...
^^^^^THIS^^^^^ although i still don't think he should miss any games
Lol
How firm they friendship...
Well my opinion is you should be consistent across the board and i know all programs have a problem following this rule.
Michigan Sucks!
LOL at the defensiveness by a tTUN....LOVE IT! They all just come here because they're closet Buckeye fans. I would never have known about this crap above because...oh yeah that's right...I DON'T GO TO THERE DUMB ASS WEBSITES! That's why...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
[Ed - Consider this your warning for violating our golden rule (don't be a jerk).]
@bhop...go through the threads, count how many involve michigan, and then let me know how many were started by Michigan fans. Like it or not, Michigan news is OSU news and vice versa on Michigan sites.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Hail: bhop is a defensive fellow. Honestly, I feel you bring a good dynamic to the site; feel free to continue.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
I could care less about his opinion about me and Mman, etc. being here. Just pointing out that all these threads about Michigan would be here even if this was 100% buckeyes.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler