Eleven Warriors

I agree that Penn State needs to be investigated by the NCAA. It will be a hard case to try, the NCAA has never really had to deal with violations like this. I have a feeling a new chapter may be added to the NCAA rulebook as a result of the last year in Happy Valley.

Joe Amendola has got to be the worst defense lawyer ever. Listening to his speech last night you would have thought he was working for the prosecution.

Penn State SHOULD receive a very harsh punishment by the NCAA IMO. This has got to be the worst thing to happen within a program that I have ever heard. It is the NCAA though and even if they do something it may be 3 years down the road.

I really hope this now allows the victims to begin the healing process and they are able to get help and have a somewhat normal life knowing Sandusky will never again be able to do this to another child. 

If they prove there was a cover up starting at the top down and people in the program knew about it and did nothing then yes, they should be punished to the fullest extent possible. If this makes me disgusting then so be it.

This is a case for the real governing body, not some arbitrary, inconsistent judicial branch of an organization tasked with policing college athletics.  What happened at Penn St. requires real jail time for the person who comitted the crime, not a punishment for the student athletes and fans who had nothing to do with this crime.

So, it's ok for fan bases and student athletes to be punished by an arbitrary, inconsistent judicial branch for bartering a couple tattoos and t-shirts but not "real crimes" that involve the destruction of children's lives and molestation...gotcha

What makes the NCAA arbitrary and inconsistent is if they look the other way and do nothing in regards to sanctions that should be levied against Penn State. Even the SMU train wreck pales in comparison to severity against humanity, thumbing your nose at the NCAA and continuing on with buusiness as usual does not equal looking the other way while young boys are being raped in your facilities showers.

Any cover up of any crime to deflect negative publicity away from the athletic department (and in this case, football) needs to be addressed by the NCAA.  It is well within their realm and bylaws to do so.  My opinion has nothing to do with anything involving tOSU.  It has to do with the NCAA effectively governing it's members. 

It has frequently been said that the cover up is always worse than the crime - in this case I don't know if that is possible. However, surely if there had been no cover up and justice had been served earlier there would not have been so many victims.  Anyone and any organization that had any part in this cover up need to be held accountable by any organization that governs them.  The NCAA can not sit idly by and just ignore this situation.  To do so would be a cover up of their own that they would have to deal with.  And, we all know how devastating cover ups and/or organizational indifference to crimes of pedophilia can be - just look at the Catholic Church - one of the principles figures in that cover up just got convicted.  And, that scandal has cost the church untold financial and follower losses.  For all of the controversy they are actively involved in, it is their inaction on child sex abuse that has really hurt them. 

The NCAA can choose to make a statement by sanctioning PSU - a statement that will undeniably reinforce their position of maintaining the well being of student athletes at any level.  To do anything less will only reinforce the opinions of all the naysayers who believe the NCAA has very little interest in the student athlete. 

How long will it be before any of us start petitioning tOSU to abandon the NCAA?  We survived their handling of Tatgate, and although I did not like the results, I am not writing Gene and Gordon demanding they abandon the NCAA.  The NCAA was well within their rights to handle the situation the way they did.  However, should the NCAA not follow through with some type of action for this mess at PSU I will probably begin. I will continue to watch tOSU sports because that is one of my passions, but I will not watch any other NCAA matchups.  There probably are not many out there like me, but how much more BS of inaction will be endured before others start to walk away from draw of NCAA sports? 

No need to investigate PSU, they have had enough negative publicity in the past 8 months. Sandusky is guilty, JoPa died of a broken heart what else do you want??!?!?! Leave them alone and lets move on. And if you want more negative publicity to be thrown their way you are a weasel and a douche bag that used to tattle tale on everybody when you were a kid!!!!

So the program should get off free because their dirtbag coaches got what they deserved? PSU has nothing to lose with the Sandusky conviction, it only confirms what everyone knew and doesn't change the standing of the University. The cover up does. It's akin to harboring a fugitive when you cover up disgusting things like Penn State has attempted to do, and they should be given the harshest penalty available.

Ok,  So a few question for everyone.    What type of punishment does Penn State deserve?    In what sports?   If you pick certain sports how did the actions or non-action of the administrators responsible give a competative advantage in that sport?     Also how does the NCAA investigate something that happened almost 20 years ago?      Do they bring in Mike McQuary since he appears to be the only living person who is still employed by an NCAA institution who can be compelled to give any testimony?     Sorry this is a criminal case it is horrific but it is not a NCAA matter. 

Buck I 8. I think you're wrong, PSU had everything to lose with the Sandusky decision. Did you read their statement last night? They have essentially been backed into a corner now that Sandusky has been proven to be a child molester and they now face substantial civil lawsuits with millions of dollars in penalties. Also, their endowment has dropped substantially and will continue to do so now that major donors and alum are turned off to the university. 

They can't all go to jail, but they will pay

@DMC Not exactly what I meant. If Sandusky gets far fewer charges, PSU is still on the hook, and there was basically no chance he could walk completely. Despite the inconsistencies in some of the testimony, he admitted to doing things that were inappropriate, and he can't back away from that. The civil suits would still happen, and they would still have to run these reparational programs. 

But you an I are essentially making the same overall point. The University cover-up can't just be looked at as "they already got what they deserved, let's move on".

@Pheonix, I agree with you, but by aforementioned NCAA bylaws, it should be handled internally, as a breach of ethics within an athletic department, and externally as a crime with relevance in criminal and civil courts. The NCAA exists to keep this kind of thing in check, and if the athletic side of the issue isn't held accountable, I don't think justice can be acheived.

Sorry so long, but it seems to be relevant to the thread.

Last Updated - November 22, 2011 3:01 GMT
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NCAA letter to Penn State

“Like everyone who has read the grand jury report, we are all deeply disturbed by the alleged sexual abuse of children as well as the alleged response by Penn State officials,” Dr. Mark Emmert said in regards to the ongoing investigation at PSU.
Emmert’s letter to PSU’s Erickson

Penn State has learned via letter from NCAA President Mark Emmert to university president Rodney Erickson that the governing body of collegiate sports will launch an investigation of the school’s athletic programs in the wake of allegations of sexual abuse by former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky and charges of perjury against to two senior university officials, former athletic director Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, the school’s former senior vice president for business and finance.

“I am writing to notify you that the NCAA will examine Penn State’s exercise of institutional control over its intercollegiate athletics programs, as well as the actions, and inactions, of relevant responsible personnel,” Emmert wrote. “We recognize that there are ongoing federal and state investigations and the NCAA does not intend to interfere with those probes.”

A statement from the NCAA said: “After careful analysis of the Association’s institutional control and ethics policies, Dr. Emmert has sent a letter to Penn State President Erickson stating this unprecedented situation demands the NCAA evaluate the university’s accountability with regard to those policies and directing specific questions to the university about its application of NCAA bylaws. While the criminal justice process clearly takes precedence over any NCAA actions, the Association is closely monitoring the situation.”

Emmert also spoke by phone with President Erickson, who pledged Penn State’s full cooperation with the NCAA review.

Emmert set out several questions that University officials must be prepared to answer as part of the probe. Responses to this NCAA inquiry are expected by Dec. 16 in order for the NCAA to determine next steps.
 

I don't doubt that there will be sanctions... But loss of football scholarships? Death penalty? How? The person who failed in the eyes of the law are the President and the Athletic Director. There could be university athletic sanctions, including a deduction in all scholarships, but I don't think there can be any football-specific sanctions. I could be wrong, that's just my view of the situation

I have to confess that much of my interest in the case is based on the attitude of the PSU fanbase towards our fanbase. Specifically the PSU opinions that were on display during our NCAA violations last year. Penn State people spit out "liars and cheaters" and other Ohio State slurs more than any other Big Ten fanbase IMO. And last summer I remember many of us warned M1EK and the other PSU trolls that their program wasn't as clean as they presumed. How's that for foreshadowing?

Before anyone flames me -- I get that this is a petty reaction on my part. However, if I thought there was the least bit of self-reflection or contrition on their part -- I'd be ready to let this go. Do a search on "buckeye", "OSU", or "Ohio" on any BSD comment thread. ITO, we're still the dirtiest program in the NCAA and they are still the model for "doing things the right way". And it's just not one or two fringe commentors that feel this way. It's pretty much the consensus.

Much of their defiance originates from the cult-like devotion to Paterno by the PSU fanbase. Details of the cover-up are going to become public during the Curley & Schultz trials as well as during the victims' civil suits. Expect an indictment of Spanier to happen before the end of summer. Also expect that Paterno is going to be implicated in the cover-up. I wonder how this fanbase is going to react to the unravelling of the Paterno mythos.

One of my favorite 11W commentors posted last week that there was no cover-up. That we need to "take off [our] tin-foil hats". If that's the case then Stewart Mandell at SI needs to take off his hat as well.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Penn State board member Keith Masser became the first power figure at the university to say publicly that he suspects that the administration headed by Spanier engaged in a cover-up regarding Sandusky. The board fired Spanier on Nov. 9, the same night it ousted Paterno. However, "We had no idea [at the time] he would be involved in a cover-up," said Masser.

 

Masser's statement stems from an explosive Sandusky-related revelation early last week. As first reported by NBC News, an ongoing investigation being conducted for the board by former FBI director Louis Freeh has uncovered e-mails and documents showing discussions between Spanier and other officials over McQueary's account about Sandusky and the boy in the shower. They've since been turned over to state prosecutors. In one exchange, Spanier and Schultz -- who oversaw the university's police department -- agreed not to inform social services agencies because it would be "humane" to Sandusky.

@ Lawdog

Absolutely they should be investigated. They have (and have had...for the better part of 10-15 years) blatant lack of institutional control to go hand-in-hand with the massive coverup that went all the way up to the Penn State executive level. If there was ever a case that should receive the death penalty, this is it. Their leaders chose to value football & money over some innocents kids who were being molested continually by one of their employees and then even after he stopped being an employee, he continued to have access to the university and shower room to continue his deeds.

Some of the posts here I think are somewhat silly though in that they say it's not fair to punish the fans & other athletes who had nothing to do with any of the "violations"...well no crap....but that's kinda the way it works. What did John Simon, Zach Boren and others do to deserve a bowl ban in 2012? The answer? F*ckin nothin. And here we are.

Penn State football should be shut down IMO until that dump is cleaned out with a fire hose and gotten back on track with what a school is supposed to be and stand for. Just my opinion.

DMC,

Yes he was not the head football coach, but my answer to football specific penalties is Noah Spence.  If it was in 2001, and players decommit because of things that happened to the football team over a decade ago then why decommit.  It can easily be argued that closer to when it was occurring they would have lost more recruits.  These recruits probably altered their future of the Penn State program.  While he was only an assistant, he was associated with the program and would have hurt the program if this was released.

@ DMCDOUGAL

Ours was by Tressel for Tats, not child molestations spanning over a decade. Theirs involved the head football coach's knowledge, multiple other football coach's knowledge as well as multiple executives at the school who even had a file for Sandusky. This was absolutely a football-related coverup to not embarrass their school and to keep the $$ flowing in.

DMC is like an ostrich with it's head in the sand. I can understand his admiration for JoPa because of the longevity and overall record. However, to give him a pass on this whole ordeal because of that is just plain wrong. JoPa said it best himself - "I wish I had done more." However you want to interpret that, his inaction on this was a major part of why this continued for so long at PSU. And his handling of this is eerily similar to the way he handled legal run ins for his players as described by a past Senior Vice President of Student Affairs at PSU. Make no mistake about it, JoPa had it within his power to end this whole matter much earlier. It may be debatable as to how much he actually knew about Sandusky, but he knew enough to inform him that he would never be the HC at PSU and force his early retirement. And, this cover up was done to protect the football team. If Sandusky had been a coach in any other sport or employed in any other PSU dept he would have faced the music much earlier. For anyone to say this had nothing to do with PSU football is terribly naive and wrong.

There is no way to compare this to what happened at OSU because the nature of what was being covered up was so drastically different. However the real reason OSU got hammered was not because of the nature of the violation, but because of the inaction of one person - Jim Tressel. You may be able to interpret JT's emails differently, but the bottom line is that he knew something was not right and he had a responsibility to find out what was really happening and report it. His inaction was interpreted to be an action to protect the football team. PSU administrators, including JoPa, had that same responsibility. It is in the eyes of the NCAA where the cover up to protect the image of the team is worse than the crime. These were very deliberate inactions by multiple individuals at PSU. The depth of this cover up is so much deeper than many examples of other University athletic scandals that netted very severe sanctions.

This has nothing to do with Joe Paterno, it has to do with who all of this comes down on. As of right now it is Curley and Schultz.

This has a lot to do with Paterno. Of course he wasn't the highest man on the totem-pole, but Paterno still played a significant role in all of this.

First, do some reading underneath that comment, it was clarified. Second, the lack of accountability was shown either way, and would still be under investigation. 

I've been perusing the BSD commentary looking for something specific and I think I found it last night. It's the BSD equivalent of the moment when Brutus warned the 11W commentariat that something was going on with Tressel needing a lawyer in regards to the Tat-5 violations.

Two BSD commentors conducted an exchange where each confirmed from separate sources that the Freeh Report is going to implicate between 10 and 20 people.

One of them wrote the following: "So much sinister at play [that] PSU alumni/supporters will be in disbelief." And from the other: "From my sources... If it indeed plays out, it will be a 'Community' affair."

PLUS one of these guys is known to be close to the Paterno family. 

So the 11W commentors above who are in denial re Paterno's involvement -- I think in the next six months the veil is going to be lifted as far as Paterno's guilt in the cover-up. 

[Edit: So you know I didn't just make this up -- the two commentors are SweepTheLeg & DerryPharmer. Here's the thread to which I'm referring. DerryPharmer is the guy with supposedly some sort of linkage to the Paternos. My use of the term "close to the family" needed to be corrected -- was a big assumption on my part.]

But..but..but... Oh wait, I don't care. Your opinion doesn't mean shit to me, and your statements about my credibility are pretty hilarious after you create threads with double-digit mispelled words about how Urban isn't doing a good enough job recruiting, or some similar nonsense, and then you brag about your "degree" after backtracking and claiming you were drunk. Genius.

Btw, it's you're*

Why would we want PSU's football program to get punished? They've already lost a lot, and an NCAA sanction would not help matters. It deters nothing and had nothing to do with football. This would just destroy an already shaky situation and hurt a program we need in our conference to keep it strong. A stronger PSU football team is good for us. Do we want them punished just because we were?

tOSUman,

I hear what you're saying but, I think many are hoping for sanctions so that Urban can continue to raid East Coast talent that we would normally have to battle Penn State for. So yes, its bad for the conference but OSU would likely be one of the biggest beneficiaries.

I for one do not want to see PSU get punished to reap some benefits of recruiting as you say. If they are found guilty of a cover up, I want them punished because they deserve to be punished. I would much rather this whole sick thing never happened at all but it did and has to be dealt with.

Saw this article from March2011 before shit really hit the fan...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/03/jerry_sandusky_former...

Didnt JoePa sell his assets to his wife only last summer? 

what is really sickening is the comments of some of these people in March of 2011...

Looks like somebody's buttons got pushed. Looks like somebody's toes got stepped on. Its sad when a buckeye fan loses their head resulting in a irrational outburst. Just calm down and take a deep breathe I promise everything will be ok, well in your case the odds are agianst you. Good luck.

If there was a cover-up goodbye PSU hello Pitt. Probably wouldn't happen but I'd like to see it in that case.

If the Penn State Officials covered this up to help the football program, there should be punishment levied to the football program. If they didn't then it should just be a gov't issue with the school.

i don't know why anyone is allowing "Remington2323" any time of day. This troll is the definition of a troll.

Nobody respond to him. just in case anyone needs to go back:

"No need to investigate PSU, they have had enough negative publicity in the past 8 months. Sandusky is guilty, JoPa died of a broken heart what else do you want??!?!?! Leave them alone and lets move on. And if you want more negative publicity to be thrown their way you are a weasel and a douche bag that used to tattle tale on everybody when you were a kid!!!!"

"Looks like somebody's buttons got pushed. Looks like somebody's toes got stepped on. Its sad when a buckeye fan loses their head resulting in a irrational outburst. Just calm down and take a deep breathe I promise everything will be ok, well in your case the odds are agianst you. Good luck."

That ticking you hear is the bomb below State College that is the Frehe Report. The time will come for the rest of Penn State to face the music and everyone else who said "Well we don't really know enough" will be firmly, angrily, and poeticly silenced.

@ Buckeye76

No question about it. If Penn State's name was Ohio State instead they'd have a full investigation crew in town setting up camp for the long haul with ESPiN right next to 'em with a 24/7 camera rolling.

Hey @Brewster, you spelled it wrong a couple times now so I thought I'd give you the lowdown.

It's being called the Freeh Report because the man the PSU BOT hired to conduct the investigation is Louis Freeh who was the director of the FBI from 1993-2001. From then until this assignment, Freeh has been acting as an attorney and private sector consultant. 

Here is link to the story about the released emails:

http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/30/ac-sanduskycandiotti.cnn?iref=allsearch

Sick stuff. Hope these guys follow Sandusky into prison...and hopefully some prison justice is handed down to all involved.

Nope, the people defending Paterno are gonna hide now, and hope they can just be forgotten for being apologists without having a clue of any details. It doesn't get a whole lot more damning than these emails.

If true and i believe it to be, Joe Paterno was a scumbag. Dirty scumbag.

Same here. I'm not hiding, I'm the one that brought back this thread... I wanted more evidence tying in Paterno before I put him in the same category as Curley and Schultz, now it looks like I've got it. 

To your point about Vickey Triponey, I linked to a video on page 1 from Outside the Lines that aired in 2008. The stuff Triponey said - like JoePa told his players not to talk to Student Affairs.... and JoePa denied it. I think JoePa is a damn liar. Watch that video and it'll make you feel sick. 

What was Joe's slogan..... "Success with honor"? What a freaking hypocrite. 

The more and more I think about this, the more and more JoePa becomes a shadier individual. 

And what nuts is that all the a-holes at BSD think the media is trying to make this into something it wasn't. Wonder how they would feel if it were someone they knew that got abused... Blind faith is such a bad thing.

I'm waiting for the day when the ncaa and state leaders start calling for term limits for college coaches. Mark this down and remember this post. The argument will be that long term successful coaches obtain too much power and term limits will fix the problem. All arguments will be centered around the same arguments used to lmit terms for politicians.

I am not saying that I would support limits, bit be ready to hear the drumbeats.

Sorry on advance for typos...on my droid.

Explain to me how it was a violation for JT to cover up kids selling their own property but it's not a violation for Joe Pa to cover up the systematic rape of children in University facilities? Of coarse PSU deserves to be sanctioned. Their football coach was molesting children and was using the football program as his way to attract more victims. How do people not see that the football program is ultimately responsible for it's players and coaches. I'm sorry, the football program should be dealt with as harshly as possible. The lives of many people have been destroyed because of Jerry Sandusky and the PSU football program.

I've been saying this for months...Joe knew. The football program knew. The AD knew. The president knew. They allllll knew. Since the late 90s.
But around here, (western/central PA) --- everybody also knew that this was Joe's untouchable little feifdom.
Joe was the king. He was bigger than the president of the university, the AD, etc.;
Joe WANTED this story covered up -- so everybody complied upon Joe's requests.

You had me until your last sentence. 

yes, FortMeyer --- Sandusky's "retirement", at the pinnacle of his career - was strange timing indeed.

Jerry Sandusky was recruiting a Linebacker in South Carolina in the Summer of 2011.

Jerry Sandusky was seen using the workout facilities at Penn State in the Fall of 2011.

Jerry Sandusky was in a press box for Joe's 409th win in November of 2011!

You don't just walk in to a press box withouth the proper clearance/authority. And this is just the stuff that's been found out...I'm sure there's a lot more to it than these examples. Just disgusting --- because it's all lin the name of image & legacy. Covering up rape for their precious football program.

Thought provoking article from BBC. So much involved in this investigation it is a lot to comprehend as to what it could entail. Interesting to say the least.

http://www.thebuckeyebattlecry.com/2012/06/why-penn-state-matters/

I saw in my local paper today that that creep Sandusky is still getting a $58,000/yr. pension from PSU, via tax dollars.

not sure if you found that or it was of your own doing but i lol'd a little bit 

how's that?

I heard a funny Sandusky joke the other day - "Sandusky turned my tight end into a wide receiver".  HA

Removed. Didn't intend it to sound like I was trying to poke fun of the situation, but that's how it came out and I'm willing admit I probably shouldn't have posted it. My bad fellow buckeyes. I apologize

Please delete those "jokes" They are repulsive

First! Ahh dammit...