I am just wondering why or how Urban is missing on so many OL prospects when we need more OL depth? I mean ya we signed a lot of guys last year. Also with Urban and the other assistants being such good recruiters how are they missing on so many guys.
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Weak offensive line class in Ohio, going after guys that every other major program is going after, and OSU does not have recent history of developing linemen for the NFL. Not a good combination of circumstances.
You may have hit that one right on the head Ausmos..
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Do we really have to have this same thread once a week?
If Rodgers commits anywhere but OSU it'll be once a day. For real guys, it's June. We're fine
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
I just haven't been on for a little bit, and just wondered, ya its june but a lot of OL prospects have commited that Urban was high on, and they all seem to end up at other schools. I am sure some more prospects will arise, but the list is getting pretty short on who meyer is after right now.
He just needs to get Lovell Peterson before he blows up his Senior year
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Well then to fill you in:
Rodgers looks like an Auburn lean but also alluded to committing here on his next visit so I guess we'll see.
Peterson will probably get his offer on Sunday, if you need to see him prove his worth there are some videos on ESPN's NFTC page from the Columbus camp, and he looks pretty strong. He will most likely commit soon after his offer.
JP Vonashek got an offer a few weeks ago, he seems like he likes OSU so I guess we'll see if he gets on campus.
Dorian Johnson will be on campus on the 23rd.
Munger and Price can both play OL as well, so if Munger becomes part of the class, that opens some versatility to work with, especially due to the DL depth
I think tosu will be ok.... I think one of the problem is with limited schollies the staff cant cast their net out too wide. Then when they miss on the top elite guys all others havent felt enough "love" or attention and are commiting elsewhere. I think Urban will be able to flip some guys if worse comes to worse though. Playing time at a big time school thats about to do big things. Also I dont think it would be a terrible thing to carry over 3-4 schoolies with next yrs crop being so full.
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
I'll have an article on the OL outlook on Thursday but you have to understand they are only "missing" on so many because they offer so many. Get used to missing on more prospects with Urban vs JT because he offers 3-4x the amount of players.
^^^this. More offers = more misses.
As much I hate to say it, it's not like top OL prospects are just diyng to play in a spread offense. Schools like Michigan or Alabama tend to be more appealing. Think of the great spread offense of the decade, and not a one has had an elite offensive line.
Umm Urban Meyer's offensive lines at Florida? He had the Pouncey brothers for heaven's sake. Look at the O-line haul that Auburn had two years ago.
I would argue that none of these were elite units.
From 2006-2010 Urban Meyer's teams averaged 3,068 yards rushing a season. They did this while averaging 5.16 yards per carry over that same period. Those are pretty damn good numbers.
Over that same time frame, Tressel's team averaged 2,533 yards rushing a season while averaging 4.7 yards per carry. By those measures alone, Meyer's offensive lines were significantly better at establishing a rushing attack.
Ok, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to Tebow and Harvin. Besides, my point was that none of those classes were elite when they came in.
Also, look at the sacks allowed. Urban's teams at Florida averaged right around 50th in the country.
Oregon, west Virginia, Florida(besides Pouncey brothers) Boise State..can you name how many elite O-lineman were picked in the first round from these high powered spread offenses? Besides the Pouncy Brothers I don't think any.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
In the 2006 class according to Rivals, Meyer brought in 1 5*, 2 4*, and 1 3* linemen.
In the 2007 class Meyer brought in1 5*, and 2 4* linemen.
In the 2008 class Meyer brought in 1 5*, and 2 3* linemen.
In the 2009 class Meyer brought in 3 4* and 2 3* linemen.
In the 2010 class Meyer brought in 2 4* linemen.
Meyer certainly brought in quality recruits over that span, the average star rating of an O-line recruit for Meyer during this span was 3.9-4.0*s
BuckeyeJason, Boise State was first in the nation in fewest sacks allowed this past year, MTSU was tied for 2nd, Air Force was 5th, Toledo was 7th, Northern Illinois was 10th, Army was 11th, Wyoming and Ok St. were 13th, Oregon and Georgia Tech were tied for 15th. Those are spread teams in one form or another that had low sack totals.
Urban has said a few times he is runs power off tackle football, just from different formations and different looks. I don't really think the style of offense is a real deterrent from a school for a offensive linemen. Maybe if it was like a Mike Leach style of play where they never run it at all but then again the NFL puts alot in a players ability to protect a qb in what is becoming a Pass oriented league
William, I'm not arguing that these O-lines stink or anything. I'm just saying that when it comes to getting drafted high as an O-lineman..especially tackle, NFL teams usually go after the guys in pro-style or power offenses. The only team I can think of that is the exception is Oklahoma.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I'm with BuckeyeJason... Top O-line recruits don't just want to be part of a productive college offense, they want to get drafted highly into the NFL, and Meyer does not have a track record for the later, for whatever reason.
Not to stir the pot, but wasn't Ryan Clady a high first round draft pick at OT from Boise a couple years ago?
He was. 12th overall and a 1st team All American. Maybe I've had my after work drink too early, but what does a Boise State OT have to do with Urban Meyer or OSU OLine recruiting??
I have to agree with William on this one if what he posted is in fact accurate. I havent researched to see if it is or not but this pretty much convinces me. I think it bears repeating...
In the 2006 class according to Rivals, Meyer brought in 1 5*, 2 4*, and 1 3* linemen.
In the 2007 class Meyer brought in1 5*, and 2 4* linemen.
In the 2008 class Meyer brought in 1 5*, and 2 3* linemen.
In the 2009 class Meyer brought in 3 4* and 2 3* linemen.
In the 2010 class Meyer brought in 2 4* linemen
One piece of info I found was: 20 o-linemen signed w/ Fl from 05-10. including four 5*, nine 4*, six 3* and one 2*
Okay, and Michigan currently has 5 4* lineman. I'm not saying Meyer's OL recruiting at Florida was bad, but it was not elite, and he's certainly not known for cranking out NFL prospects.
It was not elite? Do you have any information backing up that claim? Michigan has 5 4* and theyre on track to have the top class in the country. Its uncommon to have an O-Line class like Michigan has, do you think they are going to have 5 4* every single year? It will average out pretty close to what urbans looked like if you compare it the next 4 years. Thats like saying Urban Meyer will get a d-line haul of Noah Spence, Adolphus Washignton, Sevon Pittman and Tommy Schutt every single year. Neither of those trends wil continue. Some classes emphasize and focus on a need. last year for us it was D-Line/LB, this year for Michigan it was O-Line IMO. This year we desperately need WR thats why we're going after Marshall, Foster, Quick and Shelton. Most of us want ALL of them because its a need, we need to upgrade that position.
^This.
And last year, Michigan matched Meyer's best OL class ever. Just accept it - it's harder to recruit elite OL for a spread offense.
thanks for just dismissing every point I made. I wont do that to you cuz my goal isnt to just "win" this argument. no one said it wasnt more difficult with the spread but if there is a man for the job is there anyone you'd rather have than Urban Meyer? I dont ever remember playing or watching Florida and thinking to myself "their offensive line is weak" or see them get completely overmatched by an opponent like we did to them in 07. I dont know what schools you consider to be the "elite" at recruiting O-Line but I think its your turn to provide some facts and show me these schools who's numbers are drastically better than the ones either I or William presented. Im not saying we're going to be elite, i dont have a crystal ball but (hopefully Urban Meyer will bring us one:) No team is perfect but I think our O-Line will be more than adequate. Every team has a weakness, name one team with a dominant Offense and Defense? We have the ability to be dominant defensively and explosive offensively. Imagine Oregon with an SEC caliber defense.
Yeah urban had so much trouble pulling in 2 4* T and a 4* G in two months last year...Urban missed on a few guys this year but by no means was it because of our offense. Spread blocking concepts really aren't that much different then Pro style.
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Blocking is blocking ...
Guys! These kids still have to play their senior years, how many 4-5 star guys were still available when Meyer took over in November? A BUNCH! I like to think we're going to kick the hell out of everyone we play this year, think what THAT will do for recruiting. Not that I put too much stock in recruiting rankings.
"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."
^^^
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
@ COMMANDHEAD, my Boise comment was just in reply to BuckeyeJason's earlier comment on Boise, etc. not getting O-linemen drafted in the first round.
The belief that it's harder to recruit O-linemen for a spread offense is BS. Let's take a look at the rankings of Wisconsin's O-linemen by Rivals. I mean surely more elite O-linemen would want to play there, right? Seeing as they're a Pro-Style team that pumps out O-linemen.
2006: 1 4*, 3 3*, 1 2*.
2007: 1 5*.
2008: 1 4*, 3 3*, 1 2*.
2009: 3 3*, 1 2*.
2010: 2 3*, 1 2*.
That comes out on average as 3*. This argument wasn't about pro-production, it was about the attraction of o-linemen to either a spread or pro-style offense, and it's proven that Meyer outrecruited the best O-line factory in the nation, a team that runs a pro-style offense.
Some people are missing the big picture. Urban Meyer won two National Championships with his OL. The number of stars and draft picks is irrelevant. He won with what he had.
I think people are underestimating the attractiveness of UM's program. The have great facilities, an exciting pro-style offense set for the future, and stellar academics on top of a gorgeous campus. It's a great school. Ohio State has a lot of these things also, including perhaps better football currently, but if you're focusing on tradition and academics, they probably beat us by a bit.
Don't read into recruiting momentum so much. Once Urban's system is demonstrated to recruits, it'll be more attractive. For now, it's a bit of an uncertainty, whereas UM's is more of a sure thing.
While Hoke WANTS to implement a pro style offense, he has yet to do that. Their offense is just as unproven as Ohio States because it was almost entirely spread last year. Not a single O lineman has seen how UM will do in a pro style offense.
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Triv, you took the words right out of my mouth.
You always get more assuredness in a slow transition that implements pieces year to year than in a complete revamp. The only element of the spread that Michigan still uses is the mobile quarterback, but even then you see very few designed runs. The rest of team operates under pro-style condition, and everything is set for the entrance of a pro-style quarterback, though that may not happen until 2014.
Which I think is actually to Hoke and Borgess' credit... they designed an offense around the players they had, and didn't try to force players into a new system. I presonally think that was one of the biggest reasons for RichRod's downfall at Michigan, he came in with a bunch of not very good pro-style players, and immediately tried to implement a spread offense which lead to complete failure initially. This is also why Meyer is going to be way more successful than RichRod was... we have talented players in place that should be able to easily transition to the spread (not to mention I think Meyer uses much more power run in his spread than RichRod)... but I digress....
RR tried to run the pread with Tate Forcier.. so you're absolutely correct. Urban has the tools to run the spread, not to his liking yet, but adequately.
Hoke is indeed being smart about the situation, but it does hold true to my original point that the slow transition is quality assured. When everything is this measured, the train won't just fly off the tracks for transitionary reasons.
Buck-I.8: effectively, Michigan's best offense last year was DR running around, throwing arm punts.
They didn't need to "deisgn" many runs for DR last year. He ran on more than half the plays. Sometimes he threw the ball before crossing the l-o-s; sometimes he didn't. But he ran, ran, and ran some more. That was a pro offense like Tebow ran the spread.
No, I'm not saying anything they did was successful in its conjugation from the older model, nor did I say that they "ran a pro-style offense". What they did was line up the scheme in a pro-style execution, and then let Denard be fast, and create. They weren't a well-oiled pro-style machine, by any means, but the OL didn't cover spread blocking schemes. They acted as a pro-style line would, and that's the transitionary key.
Buck-I.8: fair enough, but I wonder about the level of assurances offensive recruits would have, compared to other programs in transition. Last year, any success Michigan's offense had was almost entirely attributable to DR. They might be very successul at their post-DR, full-scale pro offensive schemes, but until they actually produce on the field, that remains to be seen.
I'm not convinced that Hoke et al will be as effective at maximizing their offensive talent base, or at being as creative and adaptible in game situations, as Urbz and company. For example, Hoke's 2010 SD State had superior talent than almost every defense they faced that year.
Obviously, if Hoke keeps up this recruiting level - and his evals are solid - Michigan's future pro offenses figure to be quite productive. But Hoke still has much to prove at the very highest levels.
Let's not forget that Michigan had it's first 1000+ yd rusher RB in many years last year behind the pro-style blocking that BuckI8 already poinsted out. No doubt that without DR and a lot of luck they would not have been nearly as successful, but we started to see some evening out in the offensive production last year... it wasn't literally ALL DR as it was the year before.
@RUN, you're exactly right, and notice that they still have trouble recruiting the playmaker WRs and such, because the passing offense isn't proven in the pro style yet.
@R_F_R ARM PUNTS! That's great!Denard would throw the ball at the ground and get it intercepted in his shoe laces!
Wherever you are, there you be!
RR's offense struggled in games, but which offense doesn't struggle from time to time against a great defense? They had some hiccups, but RR's offense put up lots of points. The offense wasn't RR's downfall, it was the D giving up even more points.
Bollman's never struglle... oh, wait.... nevermind
Question for Alex or anyone with info:
Do we accept the commitment of both Peterson AND one of Meadows/Coverdale/Welsh should they want to commit before Khaliel Rodgers' announcement 6/30? With the limited numbers, unless Dorian Johnson and Rodgers both commit along with Peterson, I just can't see us taking 4 OL this year unless multiple they are elite (i.e. Johnson, Rodgers). Would be interested to hear 11w thoughts
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Hopefully we'll get things rolling on the OL soon. I think we'll do better also down the road if Warriner does a good job developing lineman and getting them drafted high, it will help disspell the commonality perception that was established by Bollman in that Ohio State doesn't do well coaching the OL.