Eleven Warriors

Good article & a fair question that has been explored here before...My opinion - TP was an amazing player and the further away we get from last year the more I try (note try) to think of him as the kid who on occasion, could win games all by himself. Damn if I wasn't happy for 8 months straight after that Rose Bowl...

Don't have a definitive answer on whether it was worth it or not. I'd rather it hadn't happened the way it did. I'm sure many feel that way. In the long run, I can say for sure I will always be grateful to both TP & Coach Tressel for a lot of truly great memories & always wonder what could have been.

I definitely think i'm in the minority here but I think he was worth it. Yeah he's a pretty easy kid to dislike, his actions off the field cost him his senior season, cost Tress his head coaching job, and cost his teamates any chance at a decent season last year but i think his actions when he DID play outweigh his negatives off the field. Starting with his 31-4 record as a starter, his Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl wins and not to mention his undefeated record against TSUN he constantly preformed when the team needed him to. Without TP there is NO chance OSU wins even close to the amount of games they did. Aside from the Penn State game TP came through in the clutch when we needed him to, starting with Wsconsin his Freshman year and ending with his pretty unappreciated performance in the Sugar Bowl. Yeah he was at the center of tat-gate and the cover up afterwards but look what we have now, IMO the best coach in the nation, another potentially great QB, the #3 ranked recruiting class and a really bright future. He might not have gone out the way we envisioned he would when he first came but if it came down to it....I would do it all over again.

Yeah he was worth it, I'll never turn away a buckeye and he played his heart out (I don't think that can be disputed) when he was on the field for Ohio State.

However, if he is wondering why he is not well received it is because when he had something to gain he bolted at the university's expense. When trying to get into the NFL draft he tossed out the DeGeronimo charity to prove his ineligibility tossing his teammates under the bus and probably being the stick that broke the NCAA bowl ban's back.

End of the day, he pulled a Clarett and tossed the school under the bus for personal gain, things haven't gone to plan and now he is seeking to make amends (to an extent) with buckeye nation.

Only difference is...Mo' Beast won us a national title

On one hand, TP was arguably the best QB in Ohio State history in terms of accomplishments. 3 seasons, 3 conference titles, 3-0 against scUM, 3 BCS games with 2 wins and 1 game that came down to the final seconds along with 2 MVP awards in our 2 wins. 

On the other hand, he brought more shame and ridicule to the university than any player ever. He didn't do the same thing Herron, Posey and the others did. There was the endless string of new(er) cars, the several different accounts of money he took, etc. which all added up to a lot more than what the other guys did. 

On top of that, current Clemson QB Tajh Boyd (3828 yards, 33 TD in 2011) said he was down to Clemson and OSU but decided to go to Clemson because he didn't want to potentially sit behind Pryor for 3 years.

I love college football and I love my buckeyes but TP never stood a chance.  With that said I do think he was worth it.  What I mean by that is without leaving Ohio State with a heisman and 2 National chamipionships people would still be asking this question regardless of tatgate.  The hype placed on him as an 17-18 year old, by grown men and women, is everything wrong with College athletics.  The problem i see is that it is only getting worse.  Major college teams are already starting to offer sopmores and freshman, USC got a commitment from an eighth grader a few years ago.  It is us the average fans, definately the superfans and worst of all the media, who label young men as "saviors" and are even quicker to label them as busts when they dont produce immediately. Sports are supposed to be fun to play and inspiring for fans to watch, but we demand perfection and ultimately TP made a mistake.  If you said you never made a dumb or irrational decision from the ages of 17-25 you are lying.  You would also be lying if you said that having TP as our QB for 3 years did not make OSU games more exciting, in spite of tressel ball and Jim bollman holding him back.  People say TP was arrogant, I agree to some extent, but is that his fault.  You cant judge him because you have not been told since you were 16 that you are the greatest player ever, you and your mistakes havent been exploited to sell recruiting subscriptions, magazines, newspapers or fill time on sports radio or television.  People will say TP thought he was above the law, probably, but people have most likely, if not straight forwardly at least indirectly, have been telling him he was.  What bothers me the most, is that you, myself, and definately the media made him this way, and its not just him but a lot of other athletes as well.  Definately, some people are more responsible than others(ie $100 handshakes to young men without alot of Money), but ultimately our sports culture obssesion.  I know this past year hurt to be a Buckeye but if you think what happened with TP is the worst thing happening to college football, or even questioning the worth of a player for our team.  You obviously dont see the larger picture of what is becoming the game I love watching.  College football has become a buisness, one which extorts young men in the name of making money and lots of it.  They make the rules and destroy the ones who dont play by them.  Espn sits in the background pulling strings and protecting their assests while destroying everyone else in their path.  Attacking a single player is not fair, but such is life and life is not fair.   All, I know is that because of TP I experienced many joy filled saturday afternoon's, and maybe its because im getting older and really realizing how the world really works works, but as kids wasnt it Saturday afternoons that we fell in love with.  

Let's see how many of you guys still think he's worth it after his book comes out. I don't dispute that he (and the team) gave me many fond memories. I was entertained. He is a physical specimen no doubt. If he could mature mentally and emotionally as much as he has physically, he would be something else.

I see both sides of the coin on this one. We won a lot of games with TP. He was hard to plan for and gave us many advantages. Can we accept the win at any cost attitude (The SEC one) and be content with knowing we are a winner, or do we look at this the other way? He along with his crew instigated this entire mess. (Save the Tressell lied mantra..we all know. There is no fire without the spark) Everything from his immature comments, to his poor leadership skills, his selfishness and poor judgment have gone a long way to tarnishing a very good reputation. Tressell did his part in that as well. To me, I hold the way we conduct business as something very important. Our perception is equally so. I don't want to win at any cost. So I guess I am in the later group. I am not sure it is worth it though I don't think this is an all or nothing question. I am happy we hired Urban Meyer. I am embarrassed by the disgrace that we have suffered over such a minor offense.

I think that we would not have gone 3-4 years without a good quarterback. Pryor's first year without him may have been a growing pain for us. We may have had to wait another year to land a high quality QB, who knows. JT was a qb's coach. 

how many times did he beat michigan? oh, that many, huh? yeah, he was worth it. oh, you say he killed kittens and is a card- carrying member of the communist party? what was that michigan number, again? yeah, ok. still worth it.

Yes, his actions and the actions of the other players should of cost them 5 games or a few more at most.  Their actions weren't what got Ohio State in trouble though.  The actions of a man paid millions to run the program are what cost the program the most.  The question should be was Jim Tressel worth it?  I know the answer everyone will have to that question. 

At the end of the day, whoever you want to blame for all the trouble that hit the program was worth it.  If not for their poor decisions we wouldn't have Urban Meyer coaching the team and pulling in monster recruits from all over the country.  For that I say thanks to all parties involved in the scandal. 

Who thinks Ohio State had a pristine national perception?  I lived in a world where people constantly called Ohio State cheaters throughout the entire Tressel era.  It may have been because of one player early on(Clarrett) but all TP and the Tat 5 and Tressel himself did was confirm that perception yet again.  Face it, from the time he took over at Ohio State, til the time he left people believed(true or not) that he was a dirty coach. 

Now Meyer is the coach, and while the Sporting News may have one negative article, ESPN has been rather complientary and guys like Herbie have jumped back on the band wagon. If anything, going through all this will bring a new and better image to Ohio State.  Personally, I could give a shit what the nation thinks about Ohio State's football program, but it's laughable to think that somehow Pryor ruined this great national perception that Ohio State had.  

Yes. I would not trade the Pryor years for anything. The success and all that came with it was worth it to me. The kid (lets not forget what he was at the time) had a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease. He also appeared to have a pretty large sense of entitlement. I don't fault him for that because I wonder how I would be if I was THE top rated player in one sport and A top rated player in another sport coming out of high school. This dude had the top programs in the nation after his services. Guys have acted a lot worse in Pryor's position (not that that gives him a pass). With that said-I do not understand how fans still hang all of the last year of our lives as fans on Pryor, and only Pryor. The last I checked there were 4 other guys who got in trouble for these actions. If I understand the timeline (and the reason we ultimately got the bowl ban) correctly, it was more because of what Posey did with the summer job thing. Pryor and the tat gate started the mess, Posey's actions drove the last nail in the coffin. It was the second round that ultimately led to the bowl ban, no?

Also-Why does Tressel get a pass? I know its easy to hang this on the loud mouthed kid but lets not let JT's stately image skew our point of view here. He could have stopped the bleeding and instead of losing his job for good, he would have probably had to live with losing Pryor and Co. for 4-5 games (I'm using the AJ Green suspension as my benchmark here). But Tressel saw 2010 as a possible national title run. He and OSU could ill afford taking the news to the right people and risk losing his 4 best offensive players for %40 of the season. Pryor helped us all embrace the win at all cost attitude, Tressel didn't do much to stop it either.

I've said before that Pryor is the most talented QB OSU has ever had. There were times when his errant passes would frustrate the hell out of us as fans. And then there were the BCS games. The catch against Texas, the Oregon and Arkansas behind kickings. The slaughter of the Wolverines he engineered. The gigantic, 90,000 person middle finger to the cheeseheads in Madison. All of those big, primetime wins made his 'crimes' incredibly tolerable. I would trade three* and a half years of great wins for the one year head ache we endured.

Again-The end result of the worst thing that ever happened to Ohio State was the acquisition of one of the greatest coaches College Football has seen in the last 40 years. Pryor and company obviously didn't do what they did to get rid of JT\Bring in UFM but if OSU's punishment is a one year bowl ban in Meyer's first year, then nothing Pryor did was really all that bad. Everybody kills people, or sells their own stuff. We don't have to go to prison as fans for it. As for our image? Come on dudes. We are Ohio State. Probably the most universally hated program in the country. No matter what anyone does, non Ohio State fans will hate our school, team, and us as fans. What difference does it make if Pryor made us look bad? We are hated when we look good too. Embrace the idea that we are college football's most hated (successfull-screw you ND) program.

@Brewsters...the ban came because we were "repeat offenders" (going back to the O'Brien case in basketball).

Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but didn't we run most of the years he was there against Michigan? It wasn't Troy Smith's 4 TD performance or anything, a lot of runs...plus I think Bauserman might have been able to pull off a win or two against those R-Rod teams.

So you had 3 years of no national title, a bowl ban, scholarship reduction, loss of head coach, etc. in exchange for the worst football season in decades.  And you're ok with that?

It seems as though the aura of TP never faded for some.  I'll say it again, he threw his teammates under the bus to the NCAA.  

Don't get me wrong here, I fault Tressel, Herron, Posey, etc. as much as the next guy.  All the reports are that Pryor was the "ring leader" of the crew.

I've had a few close friends around the program and have heard about similar TP rants as mentioned above. I have also witnessed him at house parties acting like an idiot. Add the troubles on top of all that, and I honestly wish he would've picked UM or PSU over us.

Did I say rout? I said he might have pulled off a win or two against those Rich Rod teams because their D was so bad and our run game was so dominant.

Yeah, the Rose Bowl was awesome...did he follow it up with what we all expected based on that game in the following season? Not really.  USC, Penn State fumble, Wisconsin.  There are plenty of big-time plays he made in some important games.  There's also several games where you're left scratching your head or yelling at your television screen.  

I would have rather gone 9-3/10-2 or whatever those 3 years with someone else at the position.  Would still have the same number of national titles and no bowl ban and all that.  But we did get Urban, so...I don't know.

That whole recruiting class was underachieveing.  Pryor. Adams. Posey, Brewster, Shugarts. 5 star guys...not even a sniff of a Heisman or national title.

Yes.

No.

Poison Nuts I appreciate the way you brought this question to me. Thank you for your candor. I know that everyone comes from different back grounds and has either advantages or disadvantages as compared to me and the way I was raised. I am not perfect nor were my parents. I was raised in a very strict household and one that by todays standards might be considered abusive. I understand 17 year old kids saying this or saying that, making attempts to be the star or that person of importance. Even as adults, folks crave attention for one reason or another and they go about getting it in different ways (Blogs as one example). At some point, they need to start being held accountable for their actions. I assume from all of the talk about the way JT was a molder of men and all that, that that mission started day one when TP set foot on campus. I whole heartedly agreed with JT's decision to only allow upper classmen to media days. They typically have more maturity and have proven themselves in the ranks of Buckeyes for multiple years. With Pryor, there was no telling what he would say.

When I was in the Marine Corps everyone in my platoon at basic training on Paris Island came from different backgrounds. I didn't have the exposure to some of the cultures and folks that I was teamed up with. I was a country boy raised on a farm and the guy on the top rack was black guy from Chicago. Our origins couldn't be any more different. Our destination was the same. The corps taught me to be a teammate, a brother, a co-worker. We were all a part of the same machine. The majority of us in there were 18 years of age. We learned this. We learned how to function together. It got to the point where we were in each others head accomplishing the missions set before us. I never played college ball. I know there is a lot more freedom in a college atmosphere than there is in basic training. I expect that regardless of where a kid comes from or how he was raised that there are expectations of him to conform to some type of standard? I see a lot of the same principals and philosophies in the corps being necessary in college with a platoon sized group of men. They all need to unify for the purpose of achieving the mission. I believe JT tried to instill this in these men. Out of the entire team did I rarely hear another player say anything controversial or cast us in a negative light. Granted the Posey Herron and pre draft Adams thing took place. I don't think it would be easy to be in Pryor's shoes. I never thought it was. I do think that he can carry himself differently. If a great man like Barry Sanders can carry on humbly and respectfully, why shouldn't we expect that of Pryor. Was Sanders not one of the best ever, not just at the College level? Wrong or right isn't really the question here. I simply didn't like his character and I think that when that character became public, he tainted our image a little bit. We didn't need his help in doing so because I've noticed where ever I go that we are one of the most hated teams in America. This is just my opinion and not one I am forcing on anyone.

William did you serve in the military?

Treseel did his part. You are correct. Is the title of this not about TP? Thats why my focus is there. I can talk about Tressel in a different forum if you want to switch focus.

Tough to say. 

Certainly, his time provided great memories.  How many OSU QBs can say they're 3-0 vs. TSUN?  Two-time BCS bowl MVP, including one of the top 3 most satisfying OSU victories in my lifetime (2010 Rose Bowl).  There was a lot of winning and those years were fun. 

His and his teammates' antics also set up Coach Tressel to make the mistake that he did that ultimately cost him his job.  He went pro and avoided punishment while the other guys from tattoogate served their suspension.  And don't point to the supposed 6-game suspension he served in the NFL - he was a 3rd stringer who wouldn't have played anyway, so that's bullshit.  There were reasons that he went pro, and maybe that saved us from more shit, but still, his actions helped put us in the situation that we're in right now.  This stuff put Tressel in a no-win situation, and Tressel's reputation is tarnished as a result, even though those who cast the stones at him would shit bricks in the same situation

We were very fortunate to get Urban Meyer out of all of this.  We were fortunate that he had retired from Florida, where he'd have been allowed to coach as long as he wanted to, and that this was the only job he'd come out of retirement for. 

The ultimate answer to this question I think lies in how successful OSU football is with Urban.  Is an overblown scandal and one bad season worth it?  If our program ends up at a higher level than it was at with Tressel, and we can get a national title or two, then I'd lean towards yes, if the ends really justify the means.  Otherwise, no.

William you eluded my question so I am assuming you were not and if I am not mistaken you are pretty darn young too. So seeing as you didn't serve and you are lacking some real life experience (thought I remembered you making a comment about your age in a post a while back) I will say that you don't exactly warrant an opinion on the military and leading a large group of men in an organized activity. Sure you can express one but it's not exactly based on any experience. I have done both, just not football at the D1 level. Hell, Woody saw the similarities but what does he know? I mean this comment as a statement of facts. There is no hostility in this print.  

Bahh I can see who and what I am dealing with...let's move on and not subject this site to anymore of this. Take care son.

I can't believe we even have to think about this. Yeah, he was worth it. Pryor was 100% Buckeye heart and soul on the field. He f'd up, so did a lot of Buckeyes...and coaches. And so did a lot who never got caught and never will get caught. Pryor was, and still is, made out to be the catalyst that caused this last of year of discomfort. It's a much bigger issue than one player, or coach, or one team, or one football season. We all know that. 

And what is our punishment? ONE subpar season, a loss of ONE bowl game, and...a new coaching staff (that we were all secretly begging for after we gave away the game to USC in 2009)...and we now have to settle with a two time BCS national title winner as our coach.

Yeah, he really screwed us...

@Irricoir - just getting around to checking back here. Thanks for answering. My dad was (is) a Marine & I hear what you are saying. I understand the idea of "team first" being the mentality all athletes who play on a team should strive for or be taught. I was angry at TP immediately after he left for a variety of reasons. When I look back I was really only mad because things were looking real bad for tOSU. It can argued that having UFM hired has made plenty of people who had placed the blame on TP, now be much more forgiving...Maybe that's the group I'm in.

On the other hand I have always felt that our fan base put a lot of pressure on TP & JT both. Especially after the 06 & 07s failed NC bids. We essentially were not going to be happy without getting over that NC hump. A college kid of TPs ability is pretty much a pro athlete who does't get paid. That type of pressure, noteriety & responsibility entitle you to make mistakes IMHO. Big ones even. When you get right down to it - these were not crimes - they were errors in judgement. By all parties (although the NCAA can suck it). I don't take sides in the "who was wrong, JT or TP" debate. Neither of them did anything I would deem as horribly wrong & I view the situation as a whole as just plain sucking. A very shitty lesson learned.

I still can't say yes or no to whether it was all worth it. I miss JT as our coach. I'm also more excited than ever about the future of tOSU football. I can only come back to thinking about TP on the field & that Rose Bowl in partcular...Damn the dude was insanely good. Chip Kelly got his giant cocky mouth completely up which is still the best part of that particular game. Anyway - yeah - thanks for answering back - appreciate it.

Edit: Giant cocky mouth completely shut. Not up.

No problem partner. I enjoy interacting with members of this community and discussing our difference of opinions in the manner that we just exchanged. It is a lot easier to gain new perspective when someone reasons with you instead of attempting to make your comments look asinine. It's called tact. That is also another thing they teach in the military. There are 14 military traits that are important for leadership and it was taught to us using this acronym.

j- Justice (Not really applicable unless you count victories over Michigan)

j- Judgment (Very important in both realms)

d- Decisiveness (Very Important)

i- Initiative (Important)

d- Discipline (Yeah)

t- Tact (Not so much but during interviews it is a must)

i- Intensity (With out question)

e- Endurance (Umm yeah)

b- Baring (Showing steel nerves under fire...yes)

u- Unselfishness (Certainly)

c- Courage (Doesn't hurt)

k- Knowledge (Well yeah)

l- Loyalty (Buckeye till I die, Chris Spielman type not Herbie)

e- Enthusiasm (Please)

Yeah, I see no correlation. It's funny this topic came up. Urban Meyer was just quoted that Talent will win you 7-8 games, Discipline, which is another important leadership trait will win you 9 or 10. Leadership, which is a primary focus in the corps teaching, will allow special things to happen. I guess I can throw Urban in there with Woody as someone who understands the similarities. William, I encourage you to follow in the footsteps of your father and your grandfather. It will teach you important life lessons that you may have yet to learn and give you another perspective on life. Doing so can empower you beyond what a simple high school education can do. Coupled with a college degree the possibilities are great. I don't care what branch you choose and only joust with the seamen because its fun. I respect them all. It is ashamed that you think so little of the corps. Every branch has its unsavory, loose cannons. They also have these: 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/22-year-old-texas-minister-daughter-lone-survivor-small-plane-crash-kills-4-serious-condition-kansas-hospital-severe-burns-article-1.1077773