PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
Maybe I think differently but I can't understand why Pryor is getting all the blame for tat-gate and other things. Ya he handled things bad and was not the most likeable kid. But adams, herron and all the other players did the same thing but yet we welcomed them back with open arms. ya he bolted to the NFL I can't really blame him for that, would have liked him to come back though. But I think he was worth it, he came to play in the big games you have to agree with that. And think about it if we didn't get pryor who would have been our QB? maybe we don't even go 10-2 his freshmen year who knows what the next season would have been like. Sure we lost tressel and we got banned from a bowl game for a year, but we also got Urban Meyer, and the future of the Buckeyes isn't looking to bad. To what I said before why do people treat pryor differently then Herron, adams and all the other tat-gate guys?
Good article & a fair question that has been explored here before...My opinion - TP was an amazing player and the further away we get from last year the more I try (note try) to think of him as the kid who on occasion, could win games all by himself. Damn if I wasn't happy for 8 months straight after that Rose Bowl...
Don't have a definitive answer on whether it was worth it or not. I'd rather it hadn't happened the way it did. I'm sure many feel that way. In the long run, I can say for sure I will always be grateful to both TP & Coach Tressel for a lot of truly great memories & always wonder what could have been.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Terrell Pryor made me want to pull my hair out his freshman year when he fumbled the ball against Penn State when he rolled out, instead of going up the middle. We lost a great coach who frequently drove me crazy who his predictable play calling, in part, due to Pryor. And last season...
There are many reasons to hate Pryor as an OSU fan, but I would say it was worth it. If Pryor isn't our guy who is, Joe Bauserman. Bauserman running a Tressel offense, I'll pass (they won't)! Pryor was like lightning when he scrambled. He was a winner. I have so many great memories of the Pryor led buckeyes, think Michigan games. Then he and a few other guys screwed up and a huge scandel is uncovered, and we have the season from Hell. Then comes in a rockstar coach bringing in big time recruits, with a bunch of guys I'm excited to see play in S&G.
Without Pryor, there is no UFM. We would continue to win under Tressel, which is the most important thing, but it was time for a little more unpredictability. And I'm ready for Meyer.
This may sound like a lot of rambling, but I'm having a hard time getting my thoughts together tonight.
I definitely think i'm in the minority here but I think he was worth it. Yeah he's a pretty easy kid to dislike, his actions off the field cost him his senior season, cost Tress his head coaching job, and cost his teamates any chance at a decent season last year but i think his actions when he DID play outweigh his negatives off the field. Starting with his 31-4 record as a starter, his Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl wins and not to mention his undefeated record against TSUN he constantly preformed when the team needed him to. Without TP there is NO chance OSU wins even close to the amount of games they did. Aside from the Penn State game TP came through in the clutch when we needed him to, starting with Wsconsin his Freshman year and ending with his pretty unappreciated performance in the Sugar Bowl. Yeah he was at the center of tat-gate and the cover up afterwards but look what we have now, IMO the best coach in the nation, another potentially great QB, the #3 ranked recruiting class and a really bright future. He might not have gone out the way we envisioned he would when he first came but if it came down to it....I would do it all over again.
Yeah he was worth it, I'll never turn away a buckeye and he played his heart out (I don't think that can be disputed) when he was on the field for Ohio State.
However, if he is wondering why he is not well received it is because when he had something to gain he bolted at the university's expense. When trying to get into the NFL draft he tossed out the DeGeronimo charity to prove his ineligibility tossing his teammates under the bus and probably being the stick that broke the NCAA bowl ban's back.
End of the day, he pulled a Clarett and tossed the school under the bus for personal gain, things haven't gone to plan and now he is seeking to make amends (to an extent) with buckeye nation.
Only difference is...Mo' Beast won us a national title
He will have always been the QB for 3 of the 4 years I was at OSU (That last one is on him and Tressel), and I have never nor doubt I will watch many players who are more entertaining off the field. The entire situation is just sad.
On one hand, TP was arguably the best QB in Ohio State history in terms of accomplishments. 3 seasons, 3 conference titles, 3-0 against scUM, 3 BCS games with 2 wins and 1 game that came down to the final seconds along with 2 MVP awards in our 2 wins.
On the other hand, he brought more shame and ridicule to the university than any player ever. He didn't do the same thing Herron, Posey and the others did. There was the endless string of new(er) cars, the several different accounts of money he took, etc. which all added up to a lot more than what the other guys did.
On top of that, current Clemson QB Tajh Boyd (3828 yards, 33 TD in 2011) said he was down to Clemson and OSU but decided to go to Clemson because he didn't want to potentially sit behind Pryor for 3 years.
He was only worth it if your main end game was hiring Urban Meyer.
No national title. No sniff of a Heisman. Tressel fired. Bowl ban after he bolts for the NFL. Vacated 2010 season. Obviously Tress could have forwarded that e-mail, but TP got the ball rolling.
Not to mention, he ratted out teammates to the NCAA and then just left.
I love college football and I love my buckeyes but TP never stood a chance. With that said I do think he was worth it. What I mean by that is without leaving Ohio State with a heisman and 2 National chamipionships people would still be asking this question regardless of tatgate. The hype placed on him as an 17-18 year old, by grown men and women, is everything wrong with College athletics. The problem i see is that it is only getting worse. Major college teams are already starting to offer sopmores and freshman, USC got a commitment from an eighth grader a few years ago. It is us the average fans, definately the superfans and worst of all the media, who label young men as "saviors" and are even quicker to label them as busts when they dont produce immediately. Sports are supposed to be fun to play and inspiring for fans to watch, but we demand perfection and ultimately TP made a mistake. If you said you never made a dumb or irrational decision from the ages of 17-25 you are lying. You would also be lying if you said that having TP as our QB for 3 years did not make OSU games more exciting, in spite of tressel ball and Jim bollman holding him back. People say TP was arrogant, I agree to some extent, but is that his fault. You cant judge him because you have not been told since you were 16 that you are the greatest player ever, you and your mistakes havent been exploited to sell recruiting subscriptions, magazines, newspapers or fill time on sports radio or television. People will say TP thought he was above the law, probably, but people have most likely, if not straight forwardly at least indirectly, have been telling him he was. What bothers me the most, is that you, myself, and definately the media made him this way, and its not just him but a lot of other athletes as well. Definately, some people are more responsible than others(ie $100 handshakes to young men without alot of Money), but ultimately our sports culture obssesion. I know this past year hurt to be a Buckeye but if you think what happened with TP is the worst thing happening to college football, or even questioning the worth of a player for our team. You obviously dont see the larger picture of what is becoming the game I love watching. College football has become a buisness, one which extorts young men in the name of making money and lots of it. They make the rules and destroy the ones who dont play by them. Espn sits in the background pulling strings and protecting their assests while destroying everyone else in their path. Attacking a single player is not fair, but such is life and life is not fair. All, I know is that because of TP I experienced many joy filled saturday afternoon's, and maybe its because im getting older and really realizing how the world really works works, but as kids wasnt it Saturday afternoons that we fell in love with.
The "free cars" thing involved alot of Buckeye players & was investigated 3 different times and turned out to be BS all 3 times. I found it hard to beleive that any car dealer could give away as many cars that was claimed and still be around... lol
If all of the claims against Pyor would have turned out to be true then it would not have been worth it but as it stands he's a kid that made the same mistake a few other kids made and they've all had to pay their dues.
O H I O is the Buckeye State
Let's see how many of you guys still think he's worth it after his book comes out. I don't dispute that he (and the team) gave me many fond memories. I was entertained. He is a physical specimen no doubt. If he could mature mentally and emotionally as much as he has physically, he would be something else.
I see both sides of the coin on this one. We won a lot of games with TP. He was hard to plan for and gave us many advantages. Can we accept the win at any cost attitude (The SEC one) and be content with knowing we are a winner, or do we look at this the other way? He along with his crew instigated this entire mess. (Save the Tressell lied mantra..we all know. There is no fire without the spark) Everything from his immature comments, to his poor leadership skills, his selfishness and poor judgment have gone a long way to tarnishing a very good reputation. Tressell did his part in that as well. To me, I hold the way we conduct business as something very important. Our perception is equally so. I don't want to win at any cost. So I guess I am in the later group. I am not sure it is worth it though I don't think this is an all or nothing question. I am happy we hired Urban Meyer. I am embarrassed by the disgrace that we have suffered over such a minor offense.
I think that we would not have gone 3-4 years without a good quarterback. Pryor's first year without him may have been a growing pain for us. We may have had to wait another year to land a high quality QB, who knows. JT was a qb's coach.
I don't always take names when I kick ass but when I do, they most often belong to a Wolverine.
Well put. I heard stories from a guy I knew on the team about Pryor throwing fits about the wrong flavor of gatorade in practice as a freshman.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
how many times did he beat michigan? oh, that many, huh? yeah, he was worth it. oh, you say he killed kittens and is a card- carrying member of the communist party? what was that michigan number, again? yeah, ok. still worth it.
Mastermind - Is that all that matters? I admit I admire your disdain for TTUN but when your focus is so narrow you tend to miss the right hook from the side. Granted we got Urban Meyer out of this fiasco but I was borderline depressed while dealing with the fallout. I don't ever want to feel that type of disappointment again. Losing a football game is one thing but I hadn't felt that sick since the NC blowout. To each his own I guess. Teammates are supposed to say positive things about their teammates, but even some of TP's broke that protocol at times. He was a cancer that coalesced into full blown breakout. He worked his ass off in the film room and on the field but for whose glory did he do that? Look at his recent comments about getting no love at the Raiders organization. He wants to say the right thing for perceptions sake but he can't help himself. I am thankful for the game time memories but I really dislike his character. From what I know of Braxton, he operates on the opposite end of the spectrum. He seems like a high character kid and that's how I anticipate all Buckeyes carrying themselves!
Yes, his actions and the actions of the other players should of cost them 5 games or a few more at most. Their actions weren't what got Ohio State in trouble though. The actions of a man paid millions to run the program are what cost the program the most. The question should be was Jim Tressel worth it? I know the answer everyone will have to that question.
At the end of the day, whoever you want to blame for all the trouble that hit the program was worth it. If not for their poor decisions we wouldn't have Urban Meyer coaching the team and pulling in monster recruits from all over the country. For that I say thanks to all parties involved in the scandal.
This is a question that is entirely dependent on your priorities. People who care more about wins and losses will remember him in a better light than those who care more about character and national perception. I think the farther away from the whole scandal and sanctions we get the better Terrelle Pryor's career will be looked at. The national media will comment less on the scandal, but the games and memories will always be there for us. I think in the end I will look upon it more kindly, but right now I am really mixed between the two.
Who thinks Ohio State had a pristine national perception? I lived in a world where people constantly called Ohio State cheaters throughout the entire Tressel era. It may have been because of one player early on(Clarrett) but all TP and the Tat 5 and Tressel himself did was confirm that perception yet again. Face it, from the time he took over at Ohio State, til the time he left people believed(true or not) that he was a dirty coach.
Now Meyer is the coach, and while the Sporting News may have one negative article, ESPN has been rather complientary and guys like Herbie have jumped back on the band wagon. If anything, going through all this will bring a new and better image to Ohio State. Personally, I could give a shit what the nation thinks about Ohio State's football program, but it's laughable to think that somehow Pryor ruined this great national perception that Ohio State had.
I have two words "Mike Vick".. I was more embarrassed by that than any selling of player's possessions. Given all of that I STILL would go out and try to sign the number one player in the country. You hope for the best and prepare for the worst... Great memories, especially beating the hated SEC in the season that never happened.
Yes. I would not trade the Pryor years for anything. The success and all that came with it was worth it to me. The kid (lets not forget what he was at the time) had a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease. He also appeared to have a pretty large sense of entitlement. I don't fault him for that because I wonder how I would be if I was THE top rated player in one sport and A top rated player in another sport coming out of high school. This dude had the top programs in the nation after his services. Guys have acted a lot worse in Pryor's position (not that that gives him a pass). With that said-I do not understand how fans still hang all of the last year of our lives as fans on Pryor, and only Pryor. The last I checked there were 4 other guys who got in trouble for these actions. If I understand the timeline (and the reason we ultimately got the bowl ban) correctly, it was more because of what Posey did with the summer job thing. Pryor and the tat gate started the mess, Posey's actions drove the last nail in the coffin. It was the second round that ultimately led to the bowl ban, no?
Also-Why does Tressel get a pass? I know its easy to hang this on the loud mouthed kid but lets not let JT's stately image skew our point of view here. He could have stopped the bleeding and instead of losing his job for good, he would have probably had to live with losing Pryor and Co. for 4-5 games (I'm using the AJ Green suspension as my benchmark here). But Tressel saw 2010 as a possible national title run. He and OSU could ill afford taking the news to the right people and risk losing his 4 best offensive players for %40 of the season. Pryor helped us all embrace the win at all cost attitude, Tressel didn't do much to stop it either.
I've said before that Pryor is the most talented QB OSU has ever had. There were times when his errant passes would frustrate the hell out of us as fans. And then there were the BCS games. The catch against Texas, the Oregon and Arkansas behind kickings. The slaughter of the Wolverines he engineered. The gigantic, 90,000 person middle finger to the cheeseheads in Madison. All of those big, primetime wins made his 'crimes' incredibly tolerable. I would trade three* and a half years of great wins for the one year head ache we endured.
Again-The end result of the worst thing that ever happened to Ohio State was the acquisition of one of the greatest coaches College Football has seen in the last 40 years. Pryor and company obviously didn't do what they did to get rid of JT\Bring in UFM but if OSU's punishment is a one year bowl ban in Meyer's first year, then nothing Pryor did was really all that bad. Everybody kills people, or sells their own stuff. We don't have to go to prison as fans for it. As for our image? Come on dudes. We are Ohio State. Probably the most universally hated program in the country. No matter what anyone does, non Ohio State fans will hate our school, team, and us as fans. What difference does it make if Pryor made us look bad? We are hated when we look good too. Embrace the idea that we are college football's most hated (successfull-screw you ND) program.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
"Yes. I would not trade the Pryor years for anything."
uhh...a national title?
@Brewsters...the ban came because we were "repeat offenders" (going back to the O'Brien case in basketball).
Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but didn't we run most of the years he was there against Michigan? It wasn't Troy Smith's 4 TD performance or anything, a lot of runs...plus I think Bauserman might have been able to pull off a win or two against those R-Rod teams.
So you had 3 years of no national title, a bowl ban, scholarship reduction, loss of head coach, etc. in exchange for the worst football season in decades. And you're ok with that?
It seems as though the aura of TP never faded for some. I'll say it again, he threw his teammates under the bus to the NCAA.
Don't get me wrong here, I fault Tressel, Herron, Posey, etc. as much as the next guy. All the reports are that Pryor was the "ring leader" of the crew.
Because it was our running game that won the two BCS Bowls, not that Pryor amassed more yards of offense than Oregon, or that he made Arkansas's defense look pedestrian.
I've had a few close friends around the program and have heard about similar TP rants as mentioned above. I have also witnessed him at house parties acting like an idiot. Add the troubles on top of all that, and I honestly wish he would've picked UM or PSU over us.
Well now wait a minute. He gets added heat for being the "Ring Leader" of the crew here (something HEAD COACH Jim Tressel doesn't get nabbed with) but doesn't get credit for being the QB against those M teams? I'm confused.
And no, Joe Bauserman would not have routed Michigan the way a TP led team would have. Come on dude, you are better than that.
2008-5\13 120 yards. 2TD, 1 INT. 8 Carries, -7 yards.
2009-9\17 67 yards 1TD 1 IN. 19 carries, 74 yards.
2010 18\27 220. 2 TD 1 INT. 12 Carries, 49 yards.
So against Michigan he was 32\57 for 407 yards, 5 TD's, 3 INT's and carred 49 times for 116 yards. Not "Wolverine Killer" numbers by any stretch but if we give Krenzel and Boeckman nods for W's over Michigan, Pryor gets the same treatment from me. He gets credit for leading OSU to victory in those games. And you should have watched enough Pryor\OSU football to know they were a dramatically different team with him on the field so Saine, Herron, and even Beanie all could run wild because of the threat he presented.
Of course a National Title would have been nice, seeing as though only 1 team out of 120 gets one, I'm content with the fact that the Pryor led Buckeyes went to three BCS bowls with him at the helm-we won* 2 of them. One of those being the Rose-The Bowl we as OSU fans have come to cherrish above all else when the National Title game isn't there.
But let's hang it all on TP. He was loud and said dumb things. So he's an easy guy for easily offended people to not like. I'm cool with it too.
I have to ask-Redstorm, were you not pleased with the success at the time? Each year Buckeye Football ended while Pryor was the QB, were you not happy? The Texas loss was a heart breaker but you weren't elated after the Rose and Sugar (for the fleeting moments before the bomb went off)? That's my point. We all loved Pryor when he was here winning. Now its easy to blame all of OSU's 'problems' on him.
EDIT-Then you would have watched UM and PSU absolutley man handle OSU during Pryor's tenure at M or P. I would be terrified of a Rich Rodriguez offense that Terelle Pryor was running. He was hancuffed by Tressel ball and Walrus ball. If they opened up the play book for him and properly utilized him he would have smashed every major OSU record instead of just being near the top of most of them.
Did I say rout? I said he might have pulled off a win or two against those Rich Rod teams because their D was so bad and our run game was so dominant.
Yeah, the Rose Bowl was awesome...did he follow it up with what we all expected based on that game in the following season? Not really. USC, Penn State fumble, Wisconsin. There are plenty of big-time plays he made in some important games. There's also several games where you're left scratching your head or yelling at your television screen.
I would have rather gone 9-3/10-2 or whatever those 3 years with someone else at the position. Would still have the same number of national titles and no bowl ban and all that. But we did get Urban, so...I don't know.
That whole recruiting class was underachieveing. Pryor. Adams. Posey, Brewster, Shugarts. 5 star guys...not even a sniff of a Heisman or national title.
^Like we would have been close to going 10-2 without Pryor. He was the offense and made up for its ineptitude. Without him we were an 8-4/7-5 squad every year.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again," said Meyer. "Do it a little harder next time."
Tressel said "I am going to pout and throw a fit if you don't commit to us and I will hold this spot until you finish your senior year, hoping you will change your mind." Thus, we would be left with Bauserman for 4 years. You have no idea what we would have been without Pryor. You Can't discount that just like I can't discount that we were very good (performance wise) with Pryor. He was a stud and I don't deny that. You can't deny he had piss poor character either. Ultimately what means more to you? Wins or accountability? I thought college was supposed to be about finding your way and molding yourself for the future? Becoming a better man.. I think there are some (D. Carter ohh, and that former TTun QB we crushed) that you just can't reach. My comment reflect on all of the Buckeyes involved in that fiasco, especially Mike Adams and Devier Posey. They continues to embarrass us even after they were disciplined for the tats.
I don't have the same expectations as Redstorm just because they came out of high school with 5 stars but I do expect them to be a positive example of what being a Buckeye is all about.
@Irricoir - Just a question & it's not intended to start a little fight here at all. Just wanted to ask & see what you thought. Have you considered that we aren't all lucky enough to have the type of upbringing that instills the type of character that you're talking about? I might even say idealizing? I mean at some point we are all responsible for our actions- I get that, but I have read all the comments & agree with some in that I wonder what it does to a 17 year old when the whole sports WORLD is basically telling you you're the best athlete ever? Without a rock solid family life - your head is going to blow up.
I too have a certain character standard that I would love all Buckeyes to hold themselves to & also do not believe that winning is the only thing that matters. On the other hand I know not every person learns the things I learned growing up. I would have preferred TP was a better leader - most would - but being a gifted athlete doesn't equate to being a great leader...
Poison Nuts I appreciate the way you brought this question to me. Thank you for your candor. I know that everyone comes from different back grounds and has either advantages or disadvantages as compared to me and the way I was raised. I am not perfect nor were my parents. I was raised in a very strict household and one that by todays standards might be considered abusive. I understand 17 year old kids saying this or saying that, making attempts to be the star or that person of importance. Even as adults, folks crave attention for one reason or another and they go about getting it in different ways (Blogs as one example). At some point, they need to start being held accountable for their actions. I assume from all of the talk about the way JT was a molder of men and all that, that that mission started day one when TP set foot on campus. I whole heartedly agreed with JT's decision to only allow upper classmen to media days. They typically have more maturity and have proven themselves in the ranks of Buckeyes for multiple years. With Pryor, there was no telling what he would say.
When I was in the Marine Corps everyone in my platoon at basic training on Paris Island came from different backgrounds. I didn't have the exposure to some of the cultures and folks that I was teamed up with. I was a country boy raised on a farm and the guy on the top rack was black guy from Chicago. Our origins couldn't be any more different. Our destination was the same. The corps taught me to be a teammate, a brother, a co-worker. We were all a part of the same machine. The majority of us in there were 18 years of age. We learned this. We learned how to function together. It got to the point where we were in each others head accomplishing the missions set before us. I never played college ball. I know there is a lot more freedom in a college atmosphere than there is in basic training. I expect that regardless of where a kid comes from or how he was raised that there are expectations of him to conform to some type of standard? I see a lot of the same principals and philosophies in the corps being necessary in college with a platoon sized group of men. They all need to unify for the purpose of achieving the mission. I believe JT tried to instill this in these men. Out of the entire team did I rarely hear another player say anything controversial or cast us in a negative light. Granted the Posey Herron and pre draft Adams thing took place. I don't think it would be easy to be in Pryor's shoes. I never thought it was. I do think that he can carry himself differently. If a great man like Barry Sanders can carry on humbly and respectfully, why shouldn't we expect that of Pryor. Was Sanders not one of the best ever, not just at the College level? Wrong or right isn't really the question here. I simply didn't like his character and I think that when that character became public, he tainted our image a little bit. We didn't need his help in doing so because I've noticed where ever I go that we are one of the most hated teams in America. This is just my opinion and not one I am forcing on anyone.
Tries to equate serving in the armed forces as having the same impact on men as playing college football. I hate when people use that analogy, it's tired, incorrect and isn't even close. Also tainting our image? What about Tressel repeatedly lying to the NCAA? That totally didn't taint our image or anything.
William did you serve in the military?
Treseel did his part. You are correct. Is the title of this not about TP? Thats why my focus is there. I can talk about Tressel in a different forum if you want to switch focus.
Most 17-18 year old kids do one of three things.
A) Go to college
B) Join the service
C) Start working.
Why is it that I shouldn't expect the same out of a student athlete that is expected out another kid his age?
Tough to say.
Certainly, his time provided great memories. How many OSU QBs can say they're 3-0 vs. TSUN? Two-time BCS bowl MVP, including one of the top 3 most satisfying OSU victories in my lifetime (2010 Rose Bowl). There was a lot of winning and those years were fun.
His and his teammates' antics also set up Coach Tressel to make the mistake that he did that ultimately cost him his job. He went pro and avoided punishment while the other guys from tattoogate served their suspension. And don't point to the supposed 6-game suspension he served in the NFL - he was a 3rd stringer who wouldn't have played anyway, so that's bullshit. There were reasons that he went pro, and maybe that saved us from more shit, but still, his actions helped put us in the situation that we're in right now. This stuff put Tressel in a no-win situation, and Tressel's reputation is tarnished as a result, even though those who cast the stones at him would shit bricks in the same situation
We were very fortunate to get Urban Meyer out of all of this. We were fortunate that he had retired from Florida, where he'd have been allowed to coach as long as he wanted to, and that this was the only job he'd come out of retirement for.
The ultimate answer to this question I think lies in how successful OSU football is with Urban. Is an overblown scandal and one bad season worth it? If our program ends up at a higher level than it was at with Tressel, and we can get a national title or two, then I'd lean towards yes, if the ends really justify the means. Otherwise, no.
Class of 2010.
I just find it offensive to any person that has served in the armed forces to equate that as to playing a sport like football. They're in a completely different realm. The reason people bring up Tressel is because no one in our fan base gives him shit, but every time Terrelle Pryor is mentioned you have Bobby Joe and Bill Jean coming out of their caves proclaiming how awful TP is and how we would have been better off wthout him. Or how he was a cancer to the locker room, when by all accounts he was a damn good leader on the field. Also let's not act like Terrelle was some master mind that forced the other members of the Tat-5 to participate, they have brains too (although the jury on Adams is still out about that). Also Redstorm, you honestly think that Bauserman would have ever been a serviceable player? Give me a break, the man soiled his pants faster under pressure than JoePa.
William you eluded my question so I am assuming you were not and if I am not mistaken you are pretty darn young too. So seeing as you didn't serve and you are lacking some real life experience (thought I remembered you making a comment about your age in a post a while back) I will say that you don't exactly warrant an opinion on the military and leading a large group of men in an organized activity. Sure you can express one but it's not exactly based on any experience. I have done both, just not football at the D1 level. Hell, Woody saw the similarities but what does he know? I mean this comment as a statement of facts. There is no hostility in this print.
Alright Irricoir, I don't want to get into a pissing contest, but I'll take my father and grandfather's opinions, two men who served a combined 63 years in the military. I'll take their opinion on how the two don't equate whatsoever; there, is that a valid enough base for my view? Besides if I were to ever serve in a military force it sure as hell wouldn't be our inefficient, nepotistic force, I'd serve in the IDF, but that's personal preference.
Bahh I can see who and what I am dealing with...let's move on and not subject this site to anymore of this. Take care son.
I take it William's not a huge Kellen Winslow fan...
I'm saying we relied so much on the run against those sorry Michigan defenses that all we really needed was a guy handing it off to Beanie or Boom. Pryor was what 5-13 in the 2008 game? I mean, come on...it wasn't like he was going 28-42 with 4 TD's a la Troy Smith. Those 3 wins against them are great, but it wasn't like he was facing even an average Michigan team. Those were 3 of the worst seasons (well, the first two at least) in Michigan history. And it's not like Pryor overwhelmed them, it was the entire running game.
I can't believe we even have to think about this. Yeah, he was worth it. Pryor was 100% Buckeye heart and soul on the field. He f'd up, so did a lot of Buckeyes...and coaches. And so did a lot who never got caught and never will get caught. Pryor was, and still is, made out to be the catalyst that caused this last of year of discomfort. It's a much bigger issue than one player, or coach, or one team, or one football season. We all know that.
And what is our punishment? ONE subpar season, a loss of ONE bowl game, and...a new coaching staff (that we were all secretly begging for after we gave away the game to USC in 2009)...and we now have to settle with a two time BCS national title winner as our coach.
Yeah, he really screwed us...
The Ohio State University Class of 2001
BS Aero & Astronautical Engineering
I internally debated it for awhile but its a pretty clear cut answer. YES it was worth it. One of the 10 worst days of my life was when The Florida Gators gator-stomped us in the BCS Championship game. I still remember it like it was yesterday, I believe everything happens for a reason and for 3 or 4 years I still wasnt over the beating we took, I still couldnt explain why it happened that way. Why so bad? Well it took like 7 years but I finally got an answer to that question that I thought of so often. If things didnt go down that way exactly as it did then we would not have Urban Meyer as our coach more than likely. Nobody knows but imagine if we won that game, maybe Urban fails at Florida? who knows. But he's our coach now and we WILL win, send boatloads of players to the NFL, add to the rich history of OSU, and BEAT THE SEC!
@Irricoir - just getting around to checking back here. Thanks for answering. My dad was (is) a Marine & I hear what you are saying. I understand the idea of "team first" being the mentality all athletes who play on a team should strive for or be taught. I was angry at TP immediately after he left for a variety of reasons. When I look back I was really only mad because things were looking real bad for tOSU. It can argued that having UFM hired has made plenty of people who had placed the blame on TP, now be much more forgiving...Maybe that's the group I'm in.
On the other hand I have always felt that our fan base put a lot of pressure on TP & JT both. Especially after the 06 & 07s failed NC bids. We essentially were not going to be happy without getting over that NC hump. A college kid of TPs ability is pretty much a pro athlete who does't get paid. That type of pressure, noteriety & responsibility entitle you to make mistakes IMHO. Big ones even. When you get right down to it - these were not crimes - they were errors in judgement. By all parties (although the NCAA can suck it). I don't take sides in the "who was wrong, JT or TP" debate. Neither of them did anything I would deem as horribly wrong & I view the situation as a whole as just plain sucking. A very shitty lesson learned.
I still can't say yes or no to whether it was all worth it. I miss JT as our coach. I'm also more excited than ever about the future of tOSU football. I can only come back to thinking about TP on the field & that Rose Bowl in partcular...Damn the dude was insanely good. Chip Kelly got his giant cocky mouth completely up which is still the best part of that particular game. Anyway - yeah - thanks for answering back - appreciate it.
Edit: Giant cocky mouth completely shut. Not up.
3-0 Against TTUN during the Rich Rod years....
2008 Boeckman would have won the game.
2009,2010 - T. Boyd (I predict he would have been a Buckeye) would have won
No problem partner. I enjoy interacting with members of this community and discussing our difference of opinions in the manner that we just exchanged. It is a lot easier to gain new perspective when someone reasons with you instead of attempting to make your comments look asinine. It's called tact. That is also another thing they teach in the military. There are 14 military traits that are important for leadership and it was taught to us using this acronym.
j- Justice (Not really applicable unless you count victories over Michigan)
j- Judgment (Very important in both realms)
d- Decisiveness (Very Important)
i- Initiative (Important)
d- Discipline (Yeah)
t- Tact (Not so much but during interviews it is a must)
i- Intensity (With out question)
e- Endurance (Umm yeah)
b- Baring (Showing steel nerves under fire...yes)
u- Unselfishness (Certainly)
c- Courage (Doesn't hurt)
k- Knowledge (Well yeah)
l- Loyalty (Buckeye till I die, Chris Spielman type not Herbie)
e- Enthusiasm (Please)
Yeah, I see no correlation. It's funny this topic came up. Urban Meyer was just quoted that Talent will win you 7-8 games, Discipline, which is another important leadership trait will win you 9 or 10. Leadership, which is a primary focus in the corps teaching, will allow special things to happen. I guess I can throw Urban in there with Woody as someone who understands the similarities. William, I encourage you to follow in the footsteps of your father and your grandfather. It will teach you important life lessons that you may have yet to learn and give you another perspective on life. Doing so can empower you beyond what a simple high school education can do. Coupled with a college degree the possibilities are great. I don't care what branch you choose and only joust with the seamen because its fun. I respect them all. It is ashamed that you think so little of the corps. Every branch has its unsavory, loose cannons. They also have these:
It will be worth it if Urban wins us a few natty's.
Well I mean since you predict Tajh Boyd would have been a Buckeye, then we should have never gone after Pryor at all! I mean, why go after the top player in the nation-one who lives in one of your rivals back yard? Just let that kid go to either Penn State or Michigan because... GASP...he's loud! And he (who goes to the school and plays for the team) rubs you (who doesn't play for the team) the wrong way. If OSU suffered through 8 win seasons because of a lack of a dynamic play maker at QB, each one of you to the man would be demanding more. Pryor gave OSU football a three year run of success few QB's have been able to duplicate over that period. I won't dispute he didn't beat Michigan on his own but I'll ask again-name me a QB that was on the roster at any point during Pryor's three years who win 10 games per season, get the Bucks to three BCS Bowls, win two (while being a shoe lace tackle away from a third), and have OSU in NC contention every season. Its easy to look back and say his (and Posey, Adams, Herron, Tressel, and obscure D Line dude's) actions embarrassed us as fans and that we wish we never had him. We also don't have near the level of enjoyment and revelry Pryor helped provide us with as fans. I'll take the wins and all that comes with it. Especially when "all that comes with it" is a one year bowl ban in a transition period. I find it sort of ironic Pryor is on the Raiders now. The team that embraced and invented "Just Win Baby". As fans of a football team, that's really all I care about.
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