http://www.rotoworld.com/slide/nfl/225/2013-NFL-Draft
No Simon on this list of top 32 Senior NFL prospects...my only question is...how?
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That list is bogus. Okafor over Simon is a joke to begin with, look at their stats.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I think Johnny Simon will have the last laugh! Bogus indeed!
Most rationales that I've read have said the same thing: He doesn't fit the NFL mold for DE, DL, or LB, so he inherently involves a bit of a project in his development at the NFL level. He'll be drafted high still because a project with that kind of work ethic is an easy one to take, but nonetheless, is a little bit behind Okafor in that regard.
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2012/04/inches-and-pounds
I love John Simon, but he's short for a prototypical nfl d end and will probably need to move to outside rush linebacker in a 3-4. He kind of already does play the rush linebacker in a hybrid 3-4 at times but I don't think nfl talent evaluators have seen him play in space enough to be comfortable with him playing in pass coverage. He's caught between positions, but with more tape of him playing the Leo to come this year his stock should move up.
when he has double digit sacks and more than 20 hurries he will be a top ten pick. There isnt much NFL scouts put above a guy that can get to the qb like that.
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he seems to be built like a mix of an end and a tackle. I think he'd fit in as a 3-4 end.
I wouldn't cheer for Michigan if they were playing the Taliban.
Actually Simon would fit better as an OLB in a 3-4 defense. DEs in a 3-4 play a lot like DTs. They are usually around 300lbs and take on a lot of double teams. If Simon were to be a DE in NFL it would be in a 4-3 defense, but he is even a bit undersized for that.
WILLSHIRE58 pretty much nailed how Simon fits in at the next level in his post.
Anyone know what simons 40 is, just curious?
4-3 end for sure. We all know he's strong enough to play end in a 3 front, but he isn't tall or long enough. He would be a great 4-3 pash rush end IMO.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
Seemed like there was a lot of Pac 10 players on there (other than U$C) which wouldn't seem to gel with what is generally considered the power rankings of the conferences (SEC > B1G = Big 12 > Pac 10)
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again," said Meyer. "Do it a little harder next time."
Simon is either a 4-3 end or a 3-4 OLB.
Problem is that he's too short and not prototypically fast for a 4-3 end AND he's not fast enough laterally or strong enough in pass coverage for a 3-4 OLB.
I love Johnny, but he's a classic tweener and he'll have to prove a lot of people wrong at the next level. Doesn't mean he won't get drafted (he absolutely will be drafted in the top 3 rounds), but it does mean that he's more of a rotation guy than a starting stud at the next level.
Elvis Dumervil.
As much as like Simon, and think he will have a pretty good year this year, he has yet have a year as productive as Dumervil's best years at Louisville. Not exaclty a fair comparison to make...yet.
With Vrabel he's got a great mentor to help him transition from DE in college to OLB in 3-4 in the league.
Big Swede...
Just simply a comparison for undersized D-lineman and that some do succeed and some do get drafted high. John Randle was another example.
I expect some real big things from Simon this year though but you are right, so far Simon's stats don't match Dumervil's but I wouldn't say that is because of a lack of skill, talent, measurables, etc...I would attribute that more to the system Simon's played in at Ohio State. I would characterize our system over the last 3-4 years (maybe longer) as one that ticks more towards cautious than it did towards aggressive. I can't speak to Louisville's system at the time, but we certainly didn't send a lot of bodies or do a whole lot to relieve the bodies/blockers that our d-line had to deal with. Not criticizing the defense, but by and large our d-lineman have not put big time stats up under Fickell/Heacock, sans maybe Vern Gholston (although I cringe to bring that name up talking about John's pro chances)
Point being, I hope John has a big senior season and if he does, I don't think his measurables are going to be a major deal. What he lacks in measurables he'll crush at the combine next year, remember hes a workout warrior
Carolina...
John Randle actually went undrafted and played DT so he's maybe not the best example for Simon.
The thing with the Dumervil comparison too is that it's not even a given that he'll be playing the same position as him at the next level. To me, just based on his body type (which is a bit different than Dumervil's) and recent histroy in the draft with guys similar to him, it seems like he'd be looked at as more of a 3-4 OLB. And I think that is where the trepidation comes from more so than his size, the fact that he projects best at a position that he isn't that experienced with yet.
Someone mentioned vrabel. He was a defensive end in college, and move to olb at the next level. So saying that just because simon hasn't played the position that he won't translate to it at the nfl level is kind of silly. Especialy with simons work ethic, coachability and non stop motor...I think he will be more than able to find his place at the table.
No one directly said he couldn't change positions for the NFL, or atleast anyone who did was misguided. He's a workhorse. But the point remains that the original conversation was about draft stock, and whether you agree with it not, teams will draft a proven top 5 guy at his position before they draft a top 5 guy at his position but not at the one he's projected to play at the next level.
All signs/everything we know and love about Simon say he'll succeed in the NFL, but there have been a lot of guys in his position that haven't adjusted well to the move.
If Tebow can make it, Simon can make it.
Urbz come on... Tebow is a g rather you like to admit it or not. He is a better football player than 20% of qbs, including all qbs on clevelands roster. If Tebow is so terrible then the Broncos should win the Super Bowl easy right?
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
Simon is a tremendous talent. Has the strength, quickness and speed to get to QB's and RB's. He played 2 seasons at DT and 1 at DE. I don't think he's as undersized as people make him out to be..6'2" or so around 270lbs give or take. People want to say 3-4 OLB but I think he's too stiff for the position..similar to Gholston. They both have great straighline speed and quickness, but lack that agility that LB's need. Also it seems that he doesn't have any finesse pass rush moved or techniques other than the bull and speed rush. I do remember him doing the spin move quite often. Anyways his work ethic and character will get him a great career regardless where he gets drafted. My guess is 2nf-3rdround .
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.