Eleven Warriors

@GHALE: definitely not out of the question, I can't imagine a parent liking Kelly.

Living near Cincinnati I remember Kelly throwing fits on the sidelines.  Dude is a football coach with a bad temper, it happens.  The players liked Kelly at UC, and the TV and Radio folks liked him a lot.  I see guys purple faced and screaming at players on sidelines a lot in many sports.  Sometimes assistants have guys by the jersey ripping them a new one. 

If guys with purple faces and guys who ripped kids a new one weren't capable of recruiting Tom Izzo and Rick Pitino would never have won anything in college basketball.  So, just because he screams at the kids I don't think it means the kids wouldn't want to play with him.  I've played for coaches who yelled and cussed at us before that were pretty good guys.  I've played for coaches who did the same and were assholes. 

As a parent though, no way I'd want me kid to play for Kelly.  A student died on his watch.  It may or may not be fair to hold that over his head for the rest of his career, but A KID DIED ON HIS WATCH.  It wasn't a football accident either.  It was a totally avoidable, but he put the kid in danger anyway.  If he weren't so new and the next savior of the program, there's no way he still has a job.  If Brian Kelly made that mistake this year instead of when he did, he has no job. 

Albert: it's the total ND/Kelly package, or lack thereof. The irate sideline antics, the kid dying on his watch, the fact that ND is no longer a major program and is not producing NFL players like it once did. 

As for the last point, Kelly cannot be blamed much - yet, but it goes toward the question . . . Why in f--- would any 4/5 star kid (and/or his parents) be looking seriously at ND? That I'm so baffled by Kelly's recent recruiting successes must say something in his favor, but I still think he's a lowlife.  

Eerily similar to Ty Issac, where Michigan = ND, ND = OSU, and USC comes in late.  No offense, but I'm rooting for the underdog so we don't have to play him.

Hmmm, could Clashmore Mike (ironic handle btw) be an undercover domer???

Fido, what comment from the ND perspective would you like? There is no point in offering anything meaningful regarding what is said about Kelly/ND in this thread because nothing is going to change people's posting habits. Its the same general "OMG Kelly yells at players" or "he killed someone" that is spewed all over the internet. Its difficult to add anything to those discussions because it isn't really worth the effort.

I'd be fine with discussing ND/OSU topics if others on here could be rational about it. I usually just come here to get an OSU perspective on things that have some connection to Notre Dame, mainly recruiting. Pretty much everything devolves into mindless bashing. So again, what kind of discussion would you like?

2006 Fiesta Bowl, Hail.

For UM grads, 40-50 = 6

@Clashmore_Mike I agree that many in the Ohio State fanbase have skewed opinions regarding Notre Dame's appeal and potential, but coming here and calling people clueless doesn't help elevate the discourse. If a large segment of Buckeye fans on 11W can learn to appreciate the input of the Michigan fans on the site, I'm sure your Notre Dame perspective would also be welcomed.

@Clashmore:

People knock ND because there isn't a lot to praise ND for at this point. Not trying to troll them, it's just the truth. You guys have recruited as well as anyone and still fall short. Academically ND is a good school still so when kids go there for that reason I can't blame them. But the football program has had mediocre coaches who leave a lot to be desired in the personality department and fails on the football field year after year. Couple that with the fact that some ND fans act as if their team is God's gift and you get opposing fans who mock your team and fanbase.

ha, ok.

Clashmore - I have several ND fans who are of friends of mine, and some of them are already over Brian Kelly and some are on the fence and willing to wait till he's got his guys completely in place till they pass judgment on him as a coach there. Be honest, do you think Brian Kelly is the right guy for ND and that he can bring ND back to the 'glory days' and make them relevant again? Cause I'll be honest, I have my doubts, but I wanna hear what you as an ND fan really think.

TENN- there are ND fans on both extremes regarding Kelly. Some think he needs to win a BCS game this year or he's done, some think he is the greatest coach in history. I think I, and most rational fans (at least I hope I'm rational) are somewhere in between. He's the best fit as ND's head coach since Holtz (not saying a whole lot) because he understands what needs to happen to be successful and has a plan as well as a pretty solid track record. A lot of changes needed made at the ground level of the program and the biggest thing was changing the mindset of the team. I'm sure everyone remembers his comments last year that ruffled some of the upperclassmen's feathers. That is exactly the thing that needed corrected. I don't know if he is the guy to get ND back "to glory", but whenever he leaves, the program will be in much better shape than when he arrived.

I do get a chuckle out of the "relevant" question that seems to always pop up. ESPN, CBS, and every other media outlet talk about ND pretty much daily. If they aren't relevant on the field, the B1G, ACC, and BIG XII wouldn't be begging them to join them. They definitely haven't won enough to satisfy any ND fan, but they still have made 3 BCS appearances which I think ranks them around 15th in the country. That isn't good enough and they've had some of the worst seasons in history, but they also aren't an afterthought like Indiana or Pittsburgh.

Fido, congrats on saying worse to Michigan fans, something to be proud of in this day and age. I don't read everything on here. As I've already said, I pretty much stick to topics that have a connection to Notre Dame. Yeah, if OSU fans have something constructive to add to the discussion they are welcome on the site I visit. If they come on and post Kelly is a killer and Kelly yells at his players when they make absolutely boneheaded mistakes and nothing more, there is some resistance. There are Michigan and Southern Cal posters that will post there as well and can add to the discussion.

The one liners required as much effort as I wanted to give to the quality of posts I was responding to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPBb2W9GQAg

Seems appropriate for this thread.

But Kelly did kill a kid....(just trying to ruffle some feathers, all in good fun). But the fact that ESPN, Fox, etc. still talk about ND I think erks people BECAUSE they haven't been relevant (at least not as relevant as the amount of press they get would lead one to believe). People gave the same excuse for Weis, that he "needed to get all of his pieces in place." Same excuse with Rich Rod. Truth is, good coaches adapt to their specific players (while recruiting those ideal ones for their natural system). I think this is a cop-out excuse. I would love ND to become relevant again, it would take press away from the SEC. The fact of the matter is, though, ND has become a place for 4/5* players to die...

What really irks me about Kelly isn't his temper, it's his lying. He bailed on both CMU and UC after telling his players he wasn't going anywhere; this was especially well-documented when Kelly bailed on the Bearcats.

703, do Urban Meyer and his lies irk you too?

I love how people always say that Urban lies and never seem to say what those lies are...

Only a ND fan would say that the ACC, Big Ten, and Big 12 are "begging" them to join

I don't doubt that some were saying that. Some still think if he would have been brought back for the 6th year he would have turned everythig around. It doesn't make sense though considering he coached 5 years. His final season was made up completely of players he recruited. The passing game with Clausen and Tate/Floyd was fine. Couldn't run the ball and defense was horrible because it was the third consecutive season with a different DC/scheme. He wasn't making any progress with his guys and the team again faded in November.

Clashmore: I give you credit for responding to my question.

Still, I'm puzzled about how this tragic affair was supposedly resolved. It was fully appropriate that ND, the institution, acknowledged that it was responsible for, and therefore negligent in regard to, Sullivan's death. The university settled with the family and paid the State of Indiana $42K in safety violations.

The problem, though, is that no persons ever took responsibility, or were assigned responsibility, for the bad actions. Rather, this abstract corporate-like institutional entity called the University of Notre Dame became the responsible "party," as if the bad actions were committed by intangible forces beyond anyone's control. 

The ND investigation concluded that the CEO, Kelly was not responsible because three people who worked under him, who were supposed to provide input concerning weather conditions, safety - Dir. of FB operations, head trainer, video director - did not adequately warn Kelly. The report also concluded those three guys weren't at fault, either, though, because other pre-existing structural factors (including other previous bad decisions) came into play and presumably because their responsibily to inform Kelly was too diffusely delegated among them, causing procedural confusion, etc.

“What we have found,” Affleck-Graves said, “is that numerous decisions by many people – made in good faith on that day, and even over the course of several years – played a role in the accident.”

In other words, everyone at ND is responsible and no one at ND is responsible. Welcome to the 21st century.

If you want to call me irrational, clueless, rude for calling Kelly a lowlife, fine. But at least I'm calling him a lowlife instead of boundlessly attributing the quality of lowlife-ness to the abstract idea of ND, an institution which I actually respect quite a lot.

Urban didn't leave Florida "for another job". He left for health concerns, was offered a less stressful job with ESPN and took it, relaxed for a year, and then got back into coaching when he, his doctors, and his family felt that he could manage it and stay healthy.

I think one big reason people here don't like Kelly has nothing to do with him being purple faced screaming on the sidelines or the kid dying on his watch(which is a big deal).  I think the biggest part of animosity over Brian Kelly is that he coached UC for their 2 good seasons.  The 2 seasons where people believed they could be Ohio State etc.  People refuse to like him or acknowledge his accomplishments. 

I don't like him for how he skipped out on UC.  He constantly lobbied for better facilities and for the university to make an investment in his program. He even sold it as do this and you can keep me around.  The university put the money into practice facilities.  I pretty big investment and takes off right after.  He pretty much screwed over UC, and not just because he left.

I really don't think he was the best choice for Notre Dame and I don't neccessarily blame him for taking the job.  I do think he was a more accomplished coach than what Michigan hired and so I find it funny that many people here don't think he can win at ND, but they all seem to think Hoke is going to be a formidable foe. Kelly's success was no doubt aided by being in the Big East, but he did take UC to unknown heights.  They did lose both their BCS games, but he took a program that was really not very good, a glorified MAC team and made them a BCS team in back to back years.  His system put Tony Pike and Marty Gilyard in the NFL.

I don't really think they'll be ultra successful with Kelly, but I don't think he's as bad as the 2 coaches before him.

@Tenn: I completely agree with your post and only commented on the issue because I felt a double standard was being applied for Coach Kelly and Coach Meyer. Alas, I have contributed to the thread jack.

So about Jaylon, any new news?

^Has to be Lane Kiffin.

That is simply unprofessional...now stocking the campus tour with the best of the best coeds, well...

Has to be Kiffin.  Aren't all ND chicks future nuns? /s/

I don't really think any Michigan fan has room to talk regarding the coeds of another school.

Scott- FYI: I actually agreed with what you were saying about coaches leaving schools and lying and all. I was also trying to point out the double standard being applied to Kelly vs. Meyer by bringing up the point that all coaches lie, twist the truth, tell half-truths, tell people what they wanna hear etc. 

I wonder if Kiffin said to Jaylon (assuming it was Lame Kiffin) within a 20 mile radius of USC campus we have approximately 20,000 girls just waiting to meet you. 

Could be Kiffin, could also be any SEC coach-the universities all have football hostesses (and baseball hostesses, and...) Of course, all of the hostesses are pretty. Duh.