Rumors out in the Twitter/blogosphere that Clemson has agreed in principle to join the Big 12 (didn't the ACC just up their exit fee?). So much for adding Pitt and Syracuse...
If true, this could set off another wave of re-alignment. Have to say, the Big 12 has responded pretty well to losing Nebraska, A&M, and Missouri...and Colorado if they even count.
This also throws a wrench into the "four super-conferences" theory for now. It is going to be pretty dumb having Clemson and West Virginia playing conference games in Waco, Texas and Iowa.
Losing track on how many schools are going to be in each conference...13 in the ACC? Wasn't Clemson on the verge of joining the SEC? I'm confused.
interesting...
if the ACC has 13 I would love for the Big10...11...12, to try and add Maryland and or Virginia. If another round of expansion goes around the leagues, and super 16 team conferences get formed, I hope that the Big 10 leaves 1 spot open for Notre Lame.
I definitely see the SEC wanting to add a team from the State of Virginia and one from North Carolina.
I might be in the minority, but I hate realignment. One of the many things I love about CFB is its regional nature. PAC represents the west, SEC tells you who it represents right in its name, Texas is the Texas conference, and the B10 is the midwest. Nebraska seemed like a good fit for the B10. ND fits as well. But as soon as Maryland, Rutgers or GaTech enter the B10, the fundamental character of the conference has changed.
Im with you AHH. I hate this off season realignement bullshit. I love college football, and all this stuff just makes me nervous.
I hate the realignment...wish it were mostly geographically-based. SDSU & Boise State to the Big East? come on
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
I loved that Nebraska joined the Big10, but I also am not a huge fan of the realignment in CFB. I kind of feel bad for the smaller schools in a conference that get screwed by schools leaving, but that's just my 2 cents.
Why does clemson want to join the Big 12? I feel like the Big10 is missing out on some top schools that make much more since graphically then going to the Big12, West virginia made much more since to the Big 10. I know people don't think they are good and they might not be but I think West virginia is better then Minnesota,indiana,purdue. Clemson would make a lot more since to go to the Big10 as well, they are a pretty good football program that has a lot of success in recruiting. It would open up more recruiting in the east coast for the Big 10 as well. Delany needs to get on the phone and start talking to some schools. The big10 can offer the most money of any conference. FSU has even openly talked about leaving the ACC, now that doesn't make since graphically but its FSU I would gladly take Clemson and FSU if we could get them both. Honestly with this realignment do you guys think it could go to Teams go to conferences for Football only and keep all their other sports in a different conference. For football travelling won't be that bad but for the rest of the sports that is the problem.
Alex Root, the BT would never, ever consider West Virginia for membership in their academic fraternity. The BT and P12 (both consist mostly of public schools) are neck and neck for best non-Ivy (mostly private schools) academic conference, with the ACC right there on their heels.
I wouldn't mind the B1G moving to 14 teams, but 16 teams is too much. 14 I think is the most a conference can get away with and still be somewhat intimate.
With the position the ACC is in, I think this is the best chance the B1G has ever had to get ND. Maryland would be a good second team to add, given they play in a division with Penn State and Ohio State, so their attendence will rise.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
I've been dreaming of the B1G adding Notre Dame and Boston College for quite a while..... I would also love any of UNC, UVA, and Duke.
I'm trying to read between the lines of the playoff and conference expansion chatter and I see two more likely scenarios based on an assumption deduced from that chatter.
First, the assumption: the Rose Bowl would never accept an arrangement whereby any time a team from the BT and/or P12 finish in the top 4, they never play in the Rose Bowl; therefore, the Rose Bowl is part of the mix, not just a consolation prize. The same principle applies to the B12/SEC bowl game, which I suspect probably will be the Sugar Bowl.
Scenario 1: In the event that a BT and/or P12 team are in the top 2, one or both host/play a Jan. 1 semifinal in the Rose Bowl1. Same thing with B12 and SEC for Sugar. If an ACC team were top 2, they'd host at the Orange. If a wildcard was top 2, they'd host at the Fiesta.
The corporate-style championship game would then be played on the Monday 7-12 days after the Jan. 1 bowl games at a rotation sites that are bid-out years in advance.
Scenario 2: the problem with scenario 1 is that the powers-that-be are concerned about having games well into Jan., causing viewer fatigue, cutting into ratings, etc. So, instead, they do the corporate-style event for the semis. Force SEC and other conferences to finish their CGs on the last weekend of November. Play both semis, back-to-back on the second saturday of December at pre-bid rotational sites. Then, the championship game is played at whatever bowl claims ownership to the highest seeded semifinal winner. That way, the Rose Bowl would get the BT/P12 team(s) win or lose.
Footnote 1. In the rare case that, say, Ohio State was #1 and USC was #2, they'd still play in the Rose Bowl because it would be worth it to the conferences to trade tough matchups for the opportunity to have classic Rose Bowl games; if Ohio State were #1 and USC #3, same thing; however, they wouldn't get the same benefit if Ohio State were #2 or #3 and USC were #4, as USC would get shipped elsewhere.
If the ACC is going to get raided, I would like to see the B1G go after Maryland, Virginia, NC, and Duke. All are very good academically, in recruiting hotbeds, and not great at football. Maryland and Virginia would also give the B1G access to the Baltimore and DC tv markets. They would give the B1G all of those benefits, while also not making it more difficult for OSU tO win the conference, and therefore, get a spot into the playoffs. They would also make the B1G basketball season even more entertaining.
Re-post from yesterday's Skull Session.
Commenters from BC Interruption are also talking like FSU & Clemson to the Big XII is a done deal. For them it has become a matter of postulating where the schools with a football pulse eventually land: Va Tech, Georgia Tech, Boston College, and Miami. BC and Miami are really on the fence as to whether they add any football value.
For my part, I say we add BC and ND and stop. I think all four conferences should stop at 14.
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
Ausmos: I like your train of thought. If we go to 14, add UVA and UMD, then UNC and Duke for 16. Though, I must say that UVA and Maryland will do nothing for TV markets. No one here gives a crap about those two teams; the Chokies get most of the attention, followed by Georgetown.
But there's always that "Irish" issue... The way things are going with the ACC, the "Fighting" Irish are gonna be stuck with the B1G.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
What I don't understand about all the expansion talks is how everyone seems to want all the crap teams from the acc and big east, UVA maryland and BC all are bad football programs. They are no better then illinois, iowa, and the other medicore teams in the Big 10, The SEC and Big 12 are adding teams that are good. For me academics is out the window now, you can't say this schools academics suck so we don't add them. Go get Clemson and FSU, those two schools would add a ton of value in recruiting for north carolina and florida. Duke is awful at football and UNC is so so. So if the Big 10 ends up with the left overs from the big east and acc I will be Highly dissapointed and the Big 10 will be the weakest of the 4 super-conference in IMO. We already have to many crappy teams in the Big 10 so why add more?
I thought Missouri fit well for the Big 10, but Delaney never raised a finger when they were leaving for the SEC.
If Notre Dame is too dumb to join, then let's stop worrying about it. Also, 3 teams from Indiana might be tough, but ND would give a broader national appeal for the big 10.
I thought Pitt made sense for awhile, but all of the talk is "new TV markets" - that's why Rutgers and Georgia Tech always show up in these discussions. But we just added Nebraska...man, a lot of TVs in Nebraska apparently.
Clemson to the big 12 would leave big 12 with 11 and acc with 13...common sense says another ACC team would join the big 12 to make it even for divisions.
Redstorm: Nebraksa does add a lot of TV's, they are a national brand.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Alex, if we go to four superconferences, we should be focused on adding schools that will increase tv market share, are good cultural/regional fits, and fit in with the B1G academically. Unlike the Big XII, our league gets along really well with each other. And unlike the ACC, it has been the most stable of the conferences.
FSU and Clemson don't add enough in market share to compensate for the other two factors.
Other than ND, no one among these schools is a homerun. And although FSU and Clemson are currently trending upward competively, there hasn't been a lot of separation between them and the remaining ACC football schools in the last decade. The exception being Va Tech which has separated itself from the rest of the ACC. Besides, I'm not convinced that adding more competitive football schools actually helps the league win national championships in the superconference era. In fact, the opposite could be argued.
Last I'm biased because I'm a college hockey fan. In 2013 the Big Ten will have six hockey schools, the minimum number to get an auto-bid to the NCAA tourney. Adding ND & BC not only adds two great hockey programs but it also gives us a cushion for entry into the NCAA tournament.
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
I understand its about TV markets and all about money, but doesn't FSU and clemson or even Va Tech have a large fan base that adds value, I mean if the Big 10 can over the most money don't you think some top programs will come? I here when the Big10's tv contract is up in 2014 or 2016 can't remember which that each big 10 team will get upwards of 30 mill a season that is by far more then any other conference so why can't we get better schools to come to the big 10. I would say that BC is not horrible and they would bring the boston market but how popular are they? Notre dame is a good option but how many times are we going to ask and they say no. This will never happen but I would be all for kicking some scrub schools out like minnesota but then again they bring the twin city market so that won't ever happen either. I guess I just don't understand becuase the big10 has the perception it is a weak conference and the only schools we seem to go after are medicore teams, when we should add better teams.
OH NC buckeye I thought that the big10 doesn't actually have hockey I thought they are in some national league?
@703 - According to DJ, not anymore.
I don't want Maryland, Georgia Tech, Rutgers.... Maryland and Rutgers have no tradition and can't fill thier stadiums. Tech is a southern team.
I'd like to see the ACC go after Uconn, Cincy, Louisville, and maybe USF.
I think the conferences should have some sort of regional relevance. I'd like to see Boise State get into the big12. They need a basketball program to even get their foot in the door. I think FSU or Clemson to the Big12 would just be dumb. Proves its about money and they don't care about their fans.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
Alex Root- The Big 10 mens' hockey teams are currently members of CCHA (Central Collegiate Hockey Association) and WCHA (Western College Hockey Association), since a number of schools don't have mens' college hockey. Once the Big 10 has a hockey conference, CCHA will dissolve, and the college hockey landscape will change with new conferences and merging of others. Lacrosse also does not have a Big 10 league at this point.
Unless a university has a very strong national academic standing/is a member of The Association of American Universities, an organization of leading research universities, chances are it will have a tough time gaining entrance into the Big 10. All Big 10 universities are members of AAU with the exception of Nebraska, who was a member when they joined the Big10. ACC or Big East members UVA, Maryland, Rutgers, Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt and Duke are members of AAU. Not saying that I would want any of them except for maybe UVA or UNC (yeah their football teams are middling, but they are strong in other sports and are very strong academic state schools), and even then, they are not a geographic fit. But geography may might not matter in a few years.
I know that football and money drives all this conference expansion and realignment talk (and basketball to a lesser degree) but Clemson to the Big 12 and even West Virginia to the Bog 12 is ridiculous. Adding Boise State and San Diego State or whoever else to the Big East is also dumb. Sure travelling across the country for a football game might be reasonable, but waht about all the other sports your school plays that already don't make any money. Can you imagine the women's field hockey team from Clemson travelling to Austin for a game against Texas on a random Tuesday afternoon?
10buckeyes that is why I asked the question could some of the schools going to these conferences so far away could things changed to football only conferences. For instance the big12 they add clemson and FSU for football only and the rest of their sports play in the ACC, now I know that wouldn't work becuase the ACC would not allow that. But something along those lines is what I think would be a good solution, but I doubt it would happen.
Re: hockey, we're in the last two years of the CCHA as are Mich and Mich State. The CCHA is going to fold after we leave. Minn and Wisc are in their last two years of the WCHA. Penn State starts their brand new hockey team next year. Big Ten play starts in 2014.
Also no one is ever going to be kicked out of the Big Ten. Never. Which makes it all the more important to make the right decision as far as expansion.
We are the oldest and most stable DI college athletic conference (1896). Plus we have the most desireable revenue stream at present. (Once the PAC Network takes off the PAC may overtake us -- it's debatable though.) And believe it or not, the CIC adds to the Big Ten's attractiveness. After being in the Big Ten for five years, Penn State's USNWR ranking jumped like 10 or 15 spots... which many attributed to their increase in research which almost certainly happened as a result of their membership in the Big Ten's CIC.
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
Big 10 takes ND, Boston College, Maryland and Virginia
Big 12 gets Clemson, Florida State, Miami
SEC gets NC State, Va Tech
the rest of the ACC merges with Big East powers Uconn, Cincinnati, Louisville and others to create a hoops super league.
I've seen a lot of comments that don't include where the Pac-12 comes into all this expansion hoopla. Wouldn't they need more teams to be level with the 16 team power-super-mega-conferences that everyone assumes were headed toward? Who do they add?
Also, I can see the scenario play out where the B1G and the Pac-12 don't add any more teams and stay at 12, regardless of how many teams are in the ACC, B12, SEC, and Big East. We don't really need any more teams.
Everyone, including the PAC, is going to have to add teams to ward off anti-trust lawsuits.
Boise and BYU seem the most natural fit for the PAC (although Boise's size and BYU's religious affiliation are problems). But then they have the same problem as everyone else -- a bunch of really mediocre candidates.
I kind of think 14 might be the ideal number instead of 16.
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
NC_BUCKEYE: I think Boise's terrible academic standing may be a barrier to the PAC as well. They would be considered a terrible community college, if they were one.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
The Pac-12 could look at SDSU...which might actually increase their basketball standing as a conference.
NC Buckeye is right...as much as we'd all like to lose Northwestern, Minnesota, Purdue, etc. for competitive purposes, it's just not going to happen. It looks like 14 teams is the next logical step (the ACC seemed to get there for a blink of an eye), but you don't just want to add teams for the sake of adding them. They have to be the right schools. I thought Mizzou would have fit really well.
I disagree about wanting to lose NW, Minny, and Purdue...there's a lot more than just football that makes up the B1G. Competitive purposes? I think OSU has had enough competition with Purdue over the last decade or so, and at least Minny and Purdue bring up the basketball side of things. Mizzou would've made a lot more sense to come to the B1G instead of the SEC.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I think adding Va Tech makes a lot of sense if the BIG decides to expand more. I see no value in UVA, Rutgers, Maryland. If the BIG could add Notre dame and VA tech . Put ND in the Legands and Va tech in the Leaders and put it at 14 teams would be pretty solid.
VaTech and ND would be great. I'd be happy with UVA and VaTech, though. UVA is a phenomenal school, just not elite when it comes to Football/Basketball, but they're on an upswing in both and can easily be top 25 teams.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Yeah i agree UVA is on a upswing I would just rather bring in teams that increase our standings in football sense afterall thats what all this is about. If the Big 12 adds Clemson and FSU and the BIG's answer is Maryland and UVA i wouldnt be to excited. I guess what im saying is I think if a team isnt a great football school i would rather us stay at 12 then add just to get the number up and add teams that will never be relevant.
If I can pick anybody from the ACC give me VA tech they seem the always make it into the top10 in football, but I don't know about their academics compared to other Big10 schools.
thedudabides: Don't worry about VT's academics, they are just fine.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
703: Thanks for the heads up, I thought so, but wasn't sure so I hoping for someone to inform me.
If we were to absorb teams from the ACC, I would take VaTech, UVa, NC State, UNC, Duke, and possibly BC.
I lived in Richmond for three years. Plus my sister is a long-time resident of Baltimore. So I have some exposure to the collective fanbases of UVA, Va Tech, and Maryland. In Richmond, my take was that there were many more Va Tech fans than UVA fans... by a wide margin.
UVA fans were a different crowd altogether. I was always surprised when I found out someone was an alum. You'd never know it from them showing their colors as in an interest in cfb or cbb. And when you did get them to talk about their alma mater they were very snobbish and judgemental about it. Llike they went to Harvard or Yale instead of a highly academic institution yet still a state school. (Sound familiar?)
Va Tech people were salt of the earth. Very knowledgable about the game. Wore their colors with pride. Buy you a beer or invite you to their tailgate type of people. Very similar to the average Big Ten fan.
And Maryland fans just seem very bandwagon when it comes to football and still living in the past when it comes to basketball. I don't forsee Maryland's football fortunes turning around in the forseeable future. Especially with Randy Edsall at the helm (man, was I wrong about that guy).
So yeah, if I had to pick between one of the three, my vote would go to the Hokies as well.
[edit: I don't want us taking any more than one or two schools from the ACC if it happens at all. Trust me. We don't want or need a Tobacco Road pod in the Big Ten.]
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
@WILLIAM, i like those choices based on the B1G's tradition of excellent academics, but I don't think any of those schools would do well for the competetiveness of the conference. If we take schools like UVA, Duke, and BC, we have to go for some big boys also
Va Tech is a very good large land grant research-oriented university with a loyal alumni base that travels. Its engineering, ag science, math and business programs are very strong. According to US News and World Reports, it is tied with Michigan State and Iowa in thier Top 100 rankings. The biggest knock against them is that they do not have a medical college. They are a different university than UVA is, UVA has more of a liberal arts school bent that also has a superior business school and medical college. I totally agree with NC_Buckeye as to the characterization of VT and UVA fans and alum. I have lived in the Northern Virginia area for a while now and know many students and alums from both schools.
As to Maryland, yes, they are strong academically, but football is umm, not so strong, it is a mess right now. Their stadium seats 43,000 or so, and they are lucky if they fill half of it. If they did come into the Big 10, they would probably sell the football stadium out with Penn State, OSU, Michigan, etc., fans from the DC area who can't get tickets to their own games or don't want to have to spend a bajillion dollars for the weekend. Basketball? Mmm, on the brink- and not sure if it is the brink of another resurgence of MD basketball glory, or brink of middling obscurity. Lacrosse, soccer and field hockey are what they are known for. Yeah, I love those sports, but they don't bring in the accolades or big bucks.
The Pac-12 has some options, though none of them are great...UNLV, Air Force, Boise State, San Diego State, BYU
I know they aren't the traditional powerhouses in football...but what about a Kansas or Kansas State for the big 10? Or Louisville? I agree Va Tech makes some sense, but the ACC seems to be on fairly solid ground right now (even if they lose FSU and Clemson they'd still have 12 and can probably just absorb some more big east teams).