Hey all, this is my first forum and I want to give a solid "O-H" to BUCKEYE NATION (caps were used intentionally). I am curious to know how many tsun (lower-case also intended, but usually implied) recruits were offered by the good guys. Anyone out there that can help? Forever and for always, Go BUCKS!
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those kind of misguided folk should be talked about as little as possible round these parts.
Just remember Antonio Pittman trucking Prescott Burgess in the final seconds of 2005 Game at the goal line, and your soul will calm.
According to Rivals, 5 of Michigan's 17 commitments had offers from Ohio State.
Chris Fox, 4* OT
Ben Gedeon, 4* LB
Deveon Smith, 3* RB
Dymonte Thomas, 4* S
Logan Tuley-Tillman, 4* OT
Class of 2008
Good point, John, and I totally hear that. Pittman used the "hit-stick" (video game reference) on that play, and I LOVED it. I was asking because I felt that it was a good measuring stick from different recruiting P.O.V.'s... I was perusing these internets and I hate seeing scum #1 of anything...
Tom Crean listens to Nickelback...
Thanks for the info, Scott... I appreciate it, sir.
Tom Crean listens to Nickelback...
One thing to note is that Dymonte was offered after he committed to UM and I'm not sure if Smith's or Gedeon's were offers or OFFERS (I'll take who we got at those positions over those two)
Good point, MillerTime. You're right that there are probably shades of gray with some of the offers.
Class of 2008
The staff definitely wanted Gedeon.
Are you on the staff Dallas?
Zacisone
It's pretty well-documented that the OSU staff was really after Gedeon, and it was a big get for Michigan.
Michiganbred: Zacisone simply asked a question - an astute one at that. Ohio State's interest in Gedeon might have been "pretty well-documented" by the standards of the recruiting rumor mills, but only the coaching staff really knows how much they wanted Gedeon or any other player. Ohio State has out, what, 40+ offers?
Also, we won't know if Gedeon is a "big get" for Michigan until or unless he gets on the field and starts performing - that is, unless you consider recruiting "championships" to have some intrinsic importance beyond possibly signalling that a given program has landed what is projected by recruiting services to be a strong class?
(Don't get me wrong. I believe the rankings, taken in the aggregate, are pretty good baromoters for program success, but they're merely analytical tools).
I'll take recruiting championships because they do translate to winning on the regular ... Don't believe me ask Alabama ... Since Saban arrived I've watched then reel in top prospect after top prospect ... and oh well they won 2 of the last 3 BCS trophies ....
If we don't get the guys we want.We can always flip those committed at tsun.
Millertime: what's the difference between an offer and an OFFER? sorry, relatively new to recruiting
@Run Fido Run - First off, OSU has 108 offers out, according to Rivals. How many of those are "commitable," I'm not sure, but it's pretty common knowledge that Gedeon had a committable offer. When I say it's a big get, I meant (in this case) it was a head-to-head battle that Michigan won - public, relatively high-profile. Logan Tuley-Tillman has an OSU offer, but I'd put that in the same camp as the Bosa commitment for you guys - good pickup, but it was pretty obvious where he was gonna go. Gedeon is not like that.
@TXBuck - I don't know if you're serious or not, but I would be incredibly shocked if a single one of the current UM commits flipped to OSU. That's including. Charlton, McCray, Butt, Gedeon, and Dymonte Thomas.
Buckinbama: so, apparently you agree with me that recruiting championships have no intrinsic value; rather, they often "translate to winning" on the field of play; or, we might also argue that high recruiting rankings improve the perceptions of the program over the long run, etc. In other words, recruiting championships can be a means to actually important ends, but are not important in and of themselves.
Moreover, that Saban - who is a great teacher-of-the-game, has a top notch staff, is an excellent field general, etc. - translates very highly-rated recruiting classes into lots of wins and occasional championships does not mean that other coaches are nearly as adept at translating recruiting "championships" into real ones.
Michiganbred: you first commented that Ohio State was "really after Gedeon." I guess that's open to different interpretations, but - hypothetically - if Ohio State was high on 4-5 guys at a given position and role, and Gedeon was 3rd on that list (I don't know; again only the coaches really know), then they wanted Gedeon and were targeting him, etc., but if they end up getting their 1st or 2nd player on the list of those five they were even more "really after" that player and are better off - assuming theire evals were right.
As for Gedeon being a "big get" in recruiting terms, fair enough. But . . .
A). The recruiting battle over Gedeon or any other player might be perceived by the media/fan as a bigger battle than the coaches do. If Michigan has a player 1st on their list, but Ohio State has him 3rd and are sort of slow playing him (and end up getting their #2 guy), was it really that bloody of a head-to-head battle? Meanwhile, other very heavy recruiting battles might fly under the radar.
B). If Michigan (or Ohio State) wins several high profile head-to-head recruiting battles, but those players end up underperforming on the field, the benefits of those perceived victories will be minimal and short-lived. Really, we'll have to wait several years to begin meangingfully analyzing the Urbz v. Hoke recruiting battles.
Oh, I agree with that. But in the meantime, it makes damn good television.
@NMaxwell: I'm not completely in the know on the "offers vs. OFFERS" discussion, but I think it correlates to "non-committable vs. committable" offers. The offers/non-committable variety come with stipulations (e.g. a recruit meeting grade requirements, a position spot being open, a more desired recruit not committing), OFFERS do not. It's inside baseball, for sure.
Class of 2008
If OSU insiders are worth anything then the staff truly wanted Gedeon. Every insider that I have seen address the subject has said that the staff really wanted him.
Also, 1-3 on a recruiting board may be more like 1a 1b and 1c meaning if any of them try to commit they would take any of them without reservation. I believe they would have taken Gedeon if he had tried to commit which means they wanted him.
Brady Hoke also had a year head start with Gedeon, if we're being fair.
I believe it is also well documented that OSU was not as high on Gedeon as TSUN was. Either Bucknuts or Scout had an article regarding his recruitment. The main reason Gedeon went to TSUN is that he did not feel the same love from TOSU staff as he felt from tsun.
So what you're saying is that Michigan won the recruiting battle with a recruit that both programs wanted because they recruited harder, so that's ok?
Does not compute.
Michigan offered Anzalone but turned him away when he wanted to visit. And osu will say Gedeon didn't have a commitable offer. For me it's sometimes pointless to argue this because none of us know what the coaches are actually thinking.
@Bucknasty You make a very good point involving Gedeon, Michigan was on him very very early. Honestly I am much more interested in next years recruiting class when Michigan doesn not have several months head start on these guys. I think that will be truely compelling telivision.
@Commandhead, it all depends on how bad the staff wanted him. As I mentioned, the staff was torn on Gedeon as some coaches like him and some don't hence not the all out effort to recruit him. The staff obviously wanted Courtney Love more than Gedeon.
i love reading runfidos intelligent debates. Heres to the day when we can have one ourselves good sir. for future reference capitalization is overrated.
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again