PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
4/50 = 8%
He also has a learning disability. Judge not lest ye be judged.
If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target
^^Didn't know. It was just the lowest "reported" score since 2006 even though I thought these scores weren't supposed to come out any more.
Still will be the top DB taken.
Here's a better article:
!00% this is leaked now by a team that wants him to drop past the Browns or by an agent of a player that wants to go to the Browns like Tannehill. He took it 5 weeks ago. If they were releasing it just to make fun of his woeful score it would have happened a while ago. Someone is trying to shake up what happens with the 4th pick.
4? Wow, how has he stayed eligible?
it was on ESPN, Bill Polian the colts old GM said he wonderlic has almost nothing to do with how they judge guys, he said it is just something else they can look at. I never played football, but at this point i think Football smarts are much different then books smarts.
They prob have a michigan type general studies major for athletes. Bayou studies perhaps.
@ThirdLeg - if he has a learning disability, how does he have the grades to play football. He has to find a way to get the grades somehow. I've taken the wonderlic, and let me tell you that that test is NOT HARD. And by that I mean it's really easy.
Lifted from Ted Ginn's wikipedia page:
"Ginn has admitted that he has a learning disability, and it takes him two to three times longer to learn something than most people. After being diagnosed in the eighth grade, Ginn had tutors to help him and graduated from middle and high school with honors."
"Ginn has admitted that he has a learning disability, and it takes him two to three times longer to learn something than most people. After being diagnosed in the eighth grade, Ginn had tutors to help him and graduated from middle and high school with honors."
I personally think it's sad that it was released, dude doesn't deserve the public shaming.
Here's one for you...einstein also had a learning disability. Id say he was pretty smart right? Makes me angry when people equate learning disabilities with being dumb. As a person who not only has a learning disability but has a parent who was an LD teacher for 30 years I take offense to comments like that. If you don't understand learning disabilities don't comment on them. We aren't stupid, we just learn differently than most people.
GABuckeye- " if he has a learning disability, how does he have the grades to play football. "
Congrats on taking the Wonderlic! What an accomplishment! I wonder if it would have been "really easy" if you were dyslexic..
How does Claiborne have the grades? I'd imagine it was from working very hard and putting in a ton of time. Given your question, you may be shocked to know that having a learning disability does not mean you are stupid, and not capable of "having the grades to play football"- That is something that should NOT hard to understand-- and by that, I mean it should be easy to understand.
Precisely the point I was trying to get at in my first post.
I heard that you have to take the test in 12 minutes (answering 50 questions). That might make it difficult for some people who feel rushed or need to read test questions a few times, depending on what the learning disability is. I'm not on either side ("how dare you" or "hes a dummy"), but I think it's pretty crappy that scores get leaked. This kid has to feel embarassed about it being public now.
"Love my State, hate the football"
I'm not going to aruge with you, but those questions are basic elementary math questions (and of course other questions). However he learned to do that for 15 years should've scored him more than a 4. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that learning disabilities are easy to cope with, but 4 is insanely low.
you do have to take the question in 12 minutes, but are not penalized for not completeling all 50 questions. It's on a sliding scale.
I do agree that it is ridiculous that the scores get leaked, however 4/50 is still a damn low score.
"...but then again 'Michigan' and 'huge mistake' are synonymous so that shouldn't have been much of a surprise to anybody." - Mark Titus
I read an article about a study where they saw if there was a correlation between NFL performance and a wonderlic score and there was no positive correlation. However, there was a negative correlation (lower the wonderlic score, the better stats) for two positions: TE and DB. Sounds like he's gonna be quite the player then.
I have no clue why they have the players take this, it's pointless.
I could see some players not giving 2-sh!ts what they get on a written test. A player like this knows he's going in the top 10. Maybe he figures he's out of school, so no more tests. He goes into the wonderlic with hat cocked/feet on desk.....puts his name at the top of the paper and thinks.... I'm a baller, everyone knows it, I do my thing on the field..... f this test.
I see the above scenario more realistic than dude going in there, racking his skull, then being embarrassed, because of what some Ohio State fans think of his score.
Some learning disabilities effect the ability to comprehend written work in that it may take multiple readings to truly understand. Given that the test is timed and that you only get 12 minutes, he may have felt rushed to finish. I can see a scenario in which he completed all 50 questions in the alloted time but since he was rushing to get through the test, he may not have been able to read through the questions enough times to fully comprehend what was being asked. I have always been good at quickly skiming questions and understanding what is being asked, my girlfriend on the other hand is not. She has to read through questions multiple times and read through class material/notes several times to understand. She had a higher GPA than I did in the same major. Go figure.
Inní mér syngur vitleysingur
Look you guys can say im insenstive to a learning disability. However, have you guys taken the time to read the wonderlic? It is extremely easy. Furthermore, this guy is a college graduate he should be able to comprehend basic math. Im sure all of you clamoring to the defense of a learning disability can comprehend basic math. He probably didnt care about the test, also while in college and highschool I'll bet you he had people do his work for him.
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
It's things like this that make me resent most sports media, every bloody thing has to be news nowadays. It's starting to seem like TMZ nowadays. Now, if the dude had people doing his schoolwork, that's news. This just sucks for him, he doesn't deserve the world laughing at him--for whatever reason he scored a 4--no one does.
@LUCKYNUTZ - Don't know if you were referring to me or not, but I wasn't trying to pigeonhole people affected by learning disabilities as dumb. The quote I used was intended to illustrate that even with a learning disability, Ted Ginn was able to graduate with honors--supporting your post.
SIR RICKITHDA3RD - " Im sure all of you clamoring to the defense of a learning disability can comprehend basic math." Yes, because we don't have one.
This is hilarious. Sorry, I'm insensitive and I don't really care. If this kid can't take people laughing at him because he failed miserably at this test, for whatever reason it may be, he's not going to survive critics in the NFL.
For those of you defending him, he's supposed to have a college degree, at least get a 10%.
Don't give up... Don't ever give up.
well i know people with learning disabilities that
A. comprehend basic math
B. would score much higher than a 4
I thought it was pretty funny haha. He's still about to make more money in the next few years than I probably will my whole life, so I don't feel too bad about it.
Dude's gonna be making more money in a year than most of us will see in our lifetimes. I doubt he cares if people know what he scored.
Go take a look at the practice/mock test that DBIT linked. It could easily be questions on a 5th grade profficiency test. Ryan Mallett (no learning disability I know of) got an 8, I believe.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
I know Claiborne is not a QB, but I found this stuff interesting:
Dan Marino scored a 16 (or 15 depending on where you look), which is considered low for QB's. I think most people think Marino is one of the greatest QB's in NFL history (albeit w/o an elusive Super Bowl ring).
Vince Young is considered by many to be an NFL bust, and took the test twice, the first time scoring in the single digits, before getting a 14 the second time. And speaking of NFL busts, Jeff George supposedly scored a 10, while Ryan 'bust is my middle name' Leaf scored a 27.
And our beloved and/or hated Terrelle Pryor took the test twice, scoring a 7 the first time and supposedly a 21 on his second attempt. And one of Pryor's Raider teammates, one large and seemingly often inebriated kicker Sebastian Janikowski scored a 9.
The average score on the test by NFL prospects is a 19, while QB's generally score in the 20's. The lowest score on record for a QB in the last 10 years supposedly was Chris Leak from Florida (I would love to forget that guy, 2007 Championship and all) who scored an 8.
Claiborne's 4 is the lowest known score on the test for an NFL prospect, and learning disability or not, I don't even know why they give the test, clearly the scores have little bearing on how the players fare in the league.
It's a 9th grade-level exam, guys. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a f'ing joke. I'd love to know if he answerd only 4 questions and got those 4 right, or if he answered all 50 and only got 4 right. Big difference in how you interpret a result, but a 4 is a 4. Pretty damn awful.
Hail- Mallett got a 26
Also, interestingly from what I've read Tim Tebow scored a 22.
SEC ! SEC ! SEC !
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Hmm, I wonder if it was a retake. I wouldn't swear to it, but I thought he got a much lower score. Either way, not a big deal. I'd trade my superior test score for their superior paycheck. Alas.
AJ Hawk got three stars on the Wonderlic.
Hawk earned one of those stars with only his hair.
im pretty sure aj scored a 27 on his wonderlic
Yeah, I care this much about a Wonderlic test....( ). I saw Mo C play football as did the GM's who are thinking of drafting him. Thinking less of him because of this test is stupid.
Bucksfan-standarized test. Awful or not it matters not. Either you can play or not. Mo C can.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Hail- very well could've been a retake. I know he was telling people he got one score and then a different score was leaked than what he was telling people. Regardless Mallett is a turd, doesn't matter what he scored.
I don't put much stock in this test or what people score. Granted a 4 is crazy low. But Claiborne, as has been said, can flat out play. He is a stud. Although I hope my Browns draft a playmaker on offense (Richardson or Blackmon, dear God please not Tannehill) you know cause Cleveland's offense is NOT GOOD and without a single threat, I would be okay with taking Claiborne @ #4.
Pretty sure TP got a 7, and was All-Academic Big Ten...........so.............
To the people saying things like "Learning disability or not, a 4 is a f'ing joke.", read my earlier post. Seriously, you cannot judge someone in this situation.
Maestro, TP did get a 7 when he first took the test. Then he took it again and supposedly got a 21.
I read that eventhough they allow players to retake the test, if the score is higher the second time but close to the first score, NFL teams will split the difference and go with your average for the two. Or, if your second score is significantly higher the second time, they do suspect that you were prepped for it OR that you cheated in one way or another. In some cases they have even thrown out a person's score if foul play is suspected and go with the first score.
I know its not as bad as getting a free tattoo, but an investigation should be launched to make sure this kid passed one college course, let alone 4 years worth of classes.
Why's that Junior? What in his results makes you think one has anything to do with the other. Ever think that MAYBE he said "Screw it, I'm top 5 anyway" and just went through the motions? No no no, can't be that. He must be dumb because the test says he is so LSU clearly cheats-we need to look into them.
Junior- Really bro?
Eye test. Eye Test. eYe tEsT. Does a player pass it? That is what matters. Not the combine. Not the pro day. Sure as hell not the Wonderlic.
Frank Gore got a 5.
Mike Mamula got a 49.
Alex Smith got a 40.
Ray Lewis got a 13.
Donnovan McNabb got a 14.
Tom Brady got a 33.
THIS TEST DOES NOT MATTER. IT LITERALLY MEANS NOTHING. HIGH OR LOW. GOOD OR BAD.
Yes, that was caps.
So I have this straight, in what could be considered an interview, with prospective employers that are prepared to make him wealthy, he decided that he doesn't care enough to give any effort whatsoever. All the while, letting these employers know that he (A) doesn't care about their stupid test, or (B) is as smart as a doorknob.
For the record, I do not associate this test score with a players ability to perform on a football field, only the player's ability to graduate college.
To better exhibit his disregard for these employers and their stupid tests, he should have jogged his 40.
One thing I want to know. If the test is multiple choice like the example test linked above shouldnt guessing every answer get way above a 4? Maybe all the players just guess on every answer and the really low scores we hear about are fluke chances by players who just guessed poorly haha
False Junior. The test has nothing to do with one's accumen on a football field. Great players (Ray Lewis) have had bad scores while busts (Mike Mamula) have killed that test. Running his 40 is part and parcel to his ability to perform on the field. Again, you aren't actually making a correlation between his test score and why he shouldn't have been allowed to graduate.
I hope you don't have a lighter on you. It might light up all those straws you grapsed at....
Read my statement again...slowly.
"I do not associate this test score with a players ability to perform on a football field"
And yes, I am absolutely making a correlation between his test score and his ability to achieve the academic standards that are required to pass college courses.
The 40 yard dash is a test that the NFL uses to gauge its prospects, as is the Wonderlic test. Why would your "Screw it!" theory not apply to all the tests?
If a player particpating in the combine declares a learning disability, measures are taken to help the player complete the test, including an untimed session. Claiborne's agent stated that, to his knowledge, his client has no learning disability.
I'm not seeing how this is so hard to understand.
What's making this so hard to understand is your perceived correlation between Wonderlic test and College degree and how you haven't explained how one has anything to do with the other. Claiborne majored in the ever elusive "General Studies" program at LSU. According to LSU's website, the General Studies degree is a combination of three minors...
Health Sciences—Biological Sciences, Psychology, Sports Studies
· Studies in Organizations— Business Administration, Communication Studies, Sociology
· Leadership and Society—History, Leadership Development, and Political Science
· Writing and Performing Arts—English, Film and Media Arts, Theater
· Interdisciplinary Studies—Three minors as approved by the Director of the General Studies program
So as the name indicates-you sort of dabble in a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Is it not entirely conceivable to think that the skills one needs to acquire a degree in the "General Studies" program don't necessarily coincide with those that make one a Wonderlic test savant? Or is it just easier to assume a kid from LSU is dumb and LSU greased him through to get a degree? I'm not saying athletes have to be brain surgeons and I'm sure schools make things easy on some kids academically but to immediately make the leap from Bad Wonderlic=Couldn't have graduated on his own is presumptuous.
You are severely overestimating the difficulty of the questions on this test.
I'd actually be amazed if Claiborne didn't get lost on his way to class at least once a week.
I like to read law books and legal briefs in my spare time, so pardon me if this is a bad analogy, but I can't help but to think that if Claiborn comitted murder, a good defense attorney would at least try to use his Wonderlic score as proof that he's not competent to stand trial (many competency evaluations utilize both a test of standard intelligence - an IQ test - as well as a a general psych evaluation).
Way to really hammer your point home Junior! Killed it!
100% agree with Junior. That test is ultron easy and there has to be a reason this happened. Even if it is the kid just didnt give a f*ck
Sir, you are eloquent in your brevity.
The point I've tried to make this whole time isn't that Claiborne is a rocket scientist. The point I'm making is that his inability to perform on this test does not have a correlation to his ability to graduate college. Junior is implying that LSU has some shady business afoot in giving this kid a degree but doesn't say why, short of saying he scored poorly on the Wonderlic test. He's drawing a line that doesn't exist.
I'm going further and saying this test matters even less because it measures nothing. It measures even less in terms of how someone performs on the field so the mere notion that this result has stirred up such a dust storm is asinine.
If I am a GM for a team picking anywhere from 3-10, I am BEGGING the teams ahead of me to care about this test. Claiborne is going to be a stud-the fact that he scored poorly on this test does nothing to show me otherwise. Moreso-the fact that he bombed this test does nothing to tell me he shouldn't have a degree from LSU. The connection just hasn't been made guys.
Why does it measure nothing (forgive me if you already answered that, I haven't read previous posts)?
I would say there is a big difference between the test measuring nothing and the measurement being useful to NFL teams.
Why do universities require an ACT or SAT score?
Somebody must think those scores can help determine one's ability to be successful in class.
My son is a senior who will be attending college in the fall. Most of the schools he applied to did not require SAT or ACT scores. They wanted HS cumulative GPA and he had to write an essay. I asked his guidance counselor why that was and she said it was because some schools believe that those tests do not give an accurate view of their academic ability. Some kids just aren't good at taking tests while their GPA's are very good. What aced my son getting into the school he wanted was his essay, his letters of recommendation and his interview. His SAT scores were just OK.
Is this a new policy? I was applying last year and there wasn't a school that I applied to that didn't ask for scores?... do you mind me asking what schools?
The only school that I applied to that didn't require an ACT/SAT score was Wake Forest. The other schools (UNC,NCSU,OSU,UCLA) all required scores. I did notice that some schools were starting to do this when I was applying last year.
Thank you for the insight, I've not heard of that either as the ACT was a requirement to get into OSU when I applied back in 2000. It does seem that some schools (at least the ones your son was applying to) are getting away from the focus on standardized tests. If you don't mind me asking, what schools? Or at if you do mind, was this multiple schools?
DBIT-I am a firm believer that standarized tests measure one's ability to take standardized tests and the importance the NFL tries to attribute to the Wonderlic is short sighted. People freaked out at Vince Young's score-he turned out to be a bust. Frank Gore got 1 point higher than Mo C did and he's one of the best players in the league. The fact that so much has been made about this test from a football standpoint is foolish as it does not measure translation to football. My other bone of contention here is with Junior who is steadfast in his belief that Claiborne's score somehow reflects poorly on LSU as an academic institution and that he could not have graduated college without LSU greasing him through. This is all based on what Mo C scored on a test that I personally feel reflects only one thing-one's ability to take the Wonderlic test.
Junior-ACT to College admission and Wonderlic to NFL success or ability to graduate college isn't an analogy. You've failed to address my question about your correlation between the two.
At some point, we have to stop offering up excuses. Not being a "good test taker" might be able to explain away a score between 8-12, but have you seen some of the questions on the test? A score of 4 is completely unacceptable if this guy was actually trying.
I've seen it happen with friends of mine where they go into a job interview and then they're blindsided when they get there and told that the first thing they have to do is take the Wonderlic. Some companies do this on purpose. They want to see how well you can do without preparing. But in Claiborne's case, he knew he would have to take the Wonderlic. He had months to prepare. There's simply no excuse.
School of the Visual Arts (NY)
The Illinois Institute of Art - Chicago
American University (DC)
Bryn Mawr College (Bryn Mawr, PA)
Drew University (NJ)
Parson School of Design (NY)
So even though some of the best GM's in the NFL have said openly that this test doesn't do much for them, Claiborne should somehow care about this test. There are plenty of excuses. Its a stupid test. Anyone, player or otherwise, who takes it seriously is wasting their time.
What about this test is unacceptable? Do you no longer want Claiborne on your favorite team because of this? Hell, I hope 18 teams take this test seriously. I'd be elated if he fell to my beloved Bears.
I can't believe this topic has gererated so much response.
IMO dumb people got all up in arms defending someone who is supposedly a college graduate recieiving 8% on a easy test.
Well that's actually not what I was defending. I've simply said (and have not been answered, for what it is worth) that the correlation between success on the Wonderlic test and the ability to graduate college is perceived and doesn't exist.
I certainly agree that the Wonderlic has no bearing on one's ability to succeed in the NFL. (I'm assuming it was intended for quarterbacks, as they need to have a mental grasp of the whole field, but didn't want to be discriminitive and thus applied it to all players. Just a guess though.) However, I disagree that it does not have any correlation with ability to graduate college. The Wonderlic is an intelligence/cognitive ability test, right? Of course, there are many other factors that play into one's ability to graduate, but I don't see how you can say that intelligence/cognitive ability isn't one of them.
Most schools that don't require an ACT score require you to draw this turtle from the back of the TV guide.
I can assure you that my son did not draw a turtle in order to get accepted to the schools I listed.
No no no Pam, you must be mistaken. If we've learned anything from Junior its that he is quite literally the Johnny Cash song "I've been everywhere". He's correctly assumed that Morris Claiborne could not have possibly graduated college without someone doing work for him and he clearly knows what your son and other applicants like him did during their application process at various graphic design\art schools. Pretty short sighted of you to think he wouldnt know. After all, he presumes. And thus forms the crux of his argument.
There has to be a reason for the test or it would not have been around for so long.
Not all NFL teams, but several NFL teams, have very complicated offensive and deffensive playbooks and I would have to believe that someone with a learnning disability would have a problem learning the playbook in a timely manner if at all. So a team with a complicated playbook could use the Wonderlic test to find players that fit there needs and im sure there are other meaningful uses for the test.
O H I O is the Buckeye State
4 for 50 sounds like Joey B's season for Ohio State last year.
@PAM with all due respect,
art schools shouldn't be included in this conversation due to their vast difference with your typical university, which is the scope of this conversation.
Secondly, suddenly I doubt the accuracy of any of your statements, because Bryn Mawr is an all girls school, and your son is, I assume, a male.
I obviously did not intend to include Bryn Mawr. I know it is a girls school. It was a copy paste error. He applied to Sarah Lawrence. FYI, I don't make up shit to make a point.
I think you can understand my skepticism when you named a school that is clearly not applicable to your son...
But in all, you named 3 art schools, which do not follow the traditional application process. Other than that you named to two schools that don't require ACT/SAT, and one that does...
This is, if you look at many schools, not typical, but the point is, whether they require the test scores or not, colleges look at them as a possible indicator or college preparedness, as is what Junior was implying, I believe.
No, what Jr. was implying is that low Wonderlic, SAT or ACT=dumb (see his comment about Claiborne not being able to find his way to class). SAT/ACT are tools, but many schools are relying less and less on the results as a way to determine college preparedness.
His exact comment:
"Why do universities require an ACT or SAT score? Somebody must think those scores can help determine one's ability to be successful in class."
Not talking about being dumb, but being prepared, as I stated. My point is, schools are trending away from standardized tests like you think they are, and the general trend is that someone with a low ACT score lacks that basic foundation of intelligence that high scorers have, simply because of the modules that are integrated with the standards.
@Buckz4ever - I'm with you. I only started it because Wonderlic scores never seem to get leaked/released anymore and it was the first time in years anyone scored that low (learning disability or otherwise).
I don't really buy the whole "I'm a bad test taker" argument. As someone mentioned, it might explain a few points here or there, but what people are basically saying is "When it comes to finding out if I actually learned and retained the information, I'm not good at that." I'm not trying to be a d*** because I felt like I've been there and could have raised my SAT and ACT scores (in the long run, it doesn't matter as long as they're good enough to get you in to where you want to go). I'm just saying that it's one of the easiest cop-outs in the book and it's a legitimate argument for a very small percentage of the population.
I would like to point to arguably the greatest defensive football player the NFL has ever seen to undo that theory. Ray Lewis is the most instinctive and intelligent football player that has ever tackled someone for a living. He scored a 13 on the Wonderlic. Don't sell your statement short either-EVERY team in the NFL has very complex offensive and defensive schemes. Things for rookies will be harder than anything they've ever encountered before. The language in a new playbook requires study by itself.
Another thing you might be doing is weighting the test too much (as most are). When teams decide what draft pick they make, especially at 3 through 8 where I fully expect Mo C to find himself, they will have interviewed him, talked to coaches, rival players, etc. They are going to make a large investment in this kid so they'll have an idea before Godell announces his name what sort of dude they are getting. They'll see his 40, his agility drills, bench numbers, and individual work outs so they'll have his physical traits scouted pretty well. They will also dig into the dude's psyche before they pick him. NFL teams don't care if he can take this test-but they generally know how much info he can digest before he's on their roster. This test doesn't measure his ability to digest a defensive scheme (one that has as many as 9 different coaches helping him with).
Thanks for that little bit of insight into the minds of NFL executives.
I wonder why the test is even administered as part of the combine. Is it just to give players a 12 minute break between their 40 and their bench press?
Haven't we already agreed that players with low test scores can be successful NFL players?
Have we? That's been my point since the opening tip. My secondary question was raised when you made the correlation between this test and Caliborne's ability to graduate-one you have yet to explain with anything beyond making assumptions about visual arts schools and Morris Claiborne's perceived inability to find his way to class because he scored poorly on this thing.
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