Just curious what Alex's thoughts and everyone's thoughts are on Meyer's recruiting approach to nationally recruiting as a opposed to Tressel's Ohio based approach. This isn't to say Tressel didn't recruit nationally (had success in Texas, NJ, FL , and even Georgia) or that Meyer isn't recruiting Ohio hard. To me, it just appears that Meyer is more focused on the national recruits and then the Ohio recruits secondarily, whereas Tress looked to lock up the in-state talent early and chase the national prospects later.
I am sure there are many factors at play; schollie restrictions, establishing relationships with the in state schools, an opportunity to view in-state prospects from an early age (freshman and sophomores) that may have an affect on Meyer's offers in-state this season.
I'm indifferent and in a wait and see mode before I truly form an opinion. I know the fan base had problems with Coop relying too much on FL and I did feel Tressel was starting to have holes poked in the fence from Kelly, Hoke, etc.
I look at Zaire's commitment to ND and I feel like he is a player that Tressel would have made a really strong play for. I know that we are high on JT's list and he is graded higher by the staff but the Texas distance truthfully worries me. Also look at the OTs that have committed to ND recently and it has me a bit worried. Maybe I'm just conditioned by Tress to have 15 players committed at this point.
Would love to hear the thoughts, no bashing, just insight. GO BUCKS!
I know only one of the OTs were in state, but both were targets of the buckeyes. Another aspect to his recruiting tactics that Alex highlighted in the JT article was his commitable and non-commitable offers, maybe the non-commitable offers aren't really much more enticing than Tressel's summer camp invites
^^^ I agree. I also think there has been a recent trend to commit early and "save a spot." I think this has been due to coaches trying to shore up a strong class early while leaving a few spots open for higher profile players which they can pitch on joining an already stellar class. Unfortunately, I do the class rankings play somewhat of a part in some kids decision making process and I think coaches have just learned to capitalize on that.
That being said I think Ohio is very important for Urban and his staff, however, getting the right player is more important. What I mean is that while Tressel traditionally took the best talent in Ohio and likely would have signed prospects like McCray, Butts, Charlton, and Zaire. Urban is just more focused on getting the right player. He is going to go after the people he has identified as being the best for his system. The Barrett/Zaire situation is a great example, Urban clearly has Barrett atop his list and until that didn't work out that was going to be his number one focus, and thats not to say Zaire wasn't a priority or that he isn't a great player as well.
But you hit on it exactly this year and the next few years while under a restriction I think Urban will be very careful with his offers as we have seen thus far. I think that is especially true this year because his last recruiting class was not made up completely of kids he recruited. Thats not to say they aren't all good players or not deserving of the opportunity, but had he come in earlier he more likely than not would have evaluated some of those prospects differently. So I think this year he is honed in on making 100% sure he gets guys who will fit his system and the style of play that he is going to implement.
I also have been slightly bummed that we haven't had more commits to this point, but that being said look at the commits that we already have. Four are from Ohio (4 of the top 10 prospects) and they are all studs. I think Urban's track record speaks for itself and I think when its all said and done we will end up with one of the best if not the best class in the country pound for pound. I also think there is a good chance a few kids who have committed early may re-evaluate and end up coming to Ohio State, particularly if my theory about class rankings play a role, and especially if Ohio State comes out next season and starts dismantling people. See half of last years recruiting class for proof.
Don't forget that Meyer has gotten verbals from 4 of Ohio's top prospects, so it's not like he's ignoring Ohio. I think we're also seeing the effect of two other factors. One, there's a plethora of talent in Ohio (clearly the most in the Midwest). So much so, that no matter how much we talk about a "fence," there's going to be talented players from Ohio that go to other schools regardless of how many Meyer gets. Two, recruits are signing earlier and earlier every year. This creates concern because we see all these guys already committing to other schools, when I doubt any more kids from Ohio will commit to other schools than in any given year.
That said, it does seem like Meyer is focusing on national talent over Ohio talent in this phase of recruiting. It could be because he has fewer scholarships to play with, and so he doesn't want to put out too many offers too early. It could be that he and his staff haven't had as long to scout and develop relationships with Ohio kids as other Midwestern coaches. But it is a little anxiety producing that if he doesn't get the national kids he wants, by the time he turns his focus back to Ohio, all the good ones will be gone. I think there's still enough good ones in Ohio, that it shouldn't be a huge concern.
For now, I think we have to trust the coaches and see how things turn out.
I don't ever remember Tressel having 5 kids locked up this early. It may have happened but I'm unaware. I don't think we need to fill out a majority of our class from Ohio kids just because they're from Ohio. For instance, Mike McCray. If Urban Meyer feels a kid would better fit his system from Florida, or even California, why would you fill that spot with a kid whom is from Ohio who is not your top priority? I think people think we need to fill our roster with 15 Ohio kids every single year and fill the rest with out-of-staters. I understand recruiting is local and a majority will come from your own state/region but it makes no sense to just accept Ohio kids so we can say "yeah, we got more than half our class with kids from Ohio" when you have better options with another kid from PA; MI; KY; ;FL ;TX ;CA, etc.
I know when you look at Michigan's class, it has some people freaked out. We need (we -- myself included) to relax! As of right now, we only have 9 or 10 schollies available. There may be more attrition but as of right now this class is going to be small. Probably anywhere from 15-19 as of now. Urban has to be selective. He can't just accept commits for the sake of having commits. What would be the point of that?
Also, don't freak out about the Ohio kids. We know, and knew even before Urban was hired, that he is a NATIONAL figure with a NATIONAL stature. He can recruit from anywhere and prospects all across the country not only know how damn good of a coach he is, but also the Heisman winner he has produced and 2 national titles. If a recruit from Ohio is what Urban is looking for (Jalin/Burrows/Price/Lisle/Dodson/Decker, et al.), he WILL recruit them. NO need to recruit from Ohio when you don't need to fill out your class with players that do not fit your system.
Another thing ... people point to Cooper and act like Urban is making the same mistake. The problem is, is that Cooper was an outsider at Arizona State (him beating Michigan in the 1987 Rose Bowl I'm sure played a part in his hiring) and did NOT FULLY understand 'The GAME' and what it means to both Ohio State and Michigan. Cooper was a helluva recruiter (much better than Tressel) but didn't know squat about the Rivalry. Urban Meyer was born and raised in Ohio, grew up a Buckeye, idolizes Woody Hayes, coached at Ohio State (1986 TE's) and got his Master's Degree from Ohio State (1988). Don't tell me Urban doesn't know what the Rivalry means. You're damn sure he does. He knows what it means to Buckeye Nation to beat the Wolverines. Michigan fans point to the fact that Meyer recruits nationally/abandons Ohio so I'm sure they think that Urban doesn't understand the Rivalry. He does. He gets it. He may recruit somewhat like Coop, but the difference is Meyer is homegrown here in the Great State of Ohio and knows all about the traditions, excellence & history of Ohio State football AND the Rivalry.
And one more thing -- Urban is not only recruiting to beat the B1G, but also to take down the SEC and win national championships here at Ohio State. That is his goal. He said it. "I want to make the state of Ohio proud."
Cooper didnt uderstand the rivalry, he did recruit out of state very well & very often but the top talent from Ohio that he didnt get most often ended up at tsun and it did play a big part in his losing that game almost every year. Tressel came in and kept most of the top talent in Ohio and sent Carr packing with a loosing record.
Woody Hayes understood the rivalry and owned it (close to 70% win) until Bo got the tsun job and started pulling some really good players from Ohio and made it a back n fourth battle for several years
I dont see Urban repeating Cooper era but i understand the concerns fans have when it comes to keeping top Ohio talent in OSU and it is the history of the rivalry that taught us what happens when alot of really good Ohio kids end up at tsun, they seem to play with a big chip on their shoulder.
So far i dont see anything wrong with what Urban & co are doing and yes it is also important to get Top talent from out of state but i think a good balance of Ohio kids will be important for "The Game"
O H I O is the Buckeye State
It's not as if Meyer is ignoring Ohio though. I mean, of the commits he has so far the majority are still from Ohio. He has many other targets that are Ohio kids as well. Maybe Tressel wasn't casting a wide enough net. I for one don't mind missing out on 3 or 4 kids from Ohio per year that Tressel would've taken if it means Meyer is going to land guys like Woodard or hopefully Foster later on.
This has nothing to do with any of your comments, but aren't you (Buckeyes) sick of hearing these points raised against Meyer and refuting them? It seems like every Michigan and OSU board has a thread just like this pop up once a week or so. I just want to shout from the mountain top "Wait until February 6th before Urban is burned at the stake."
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
@ Hail We all are spoiled though and we don't like to see the other school getting ahead. UM is clearly at the top in recruiting so far. You are right about waiting for February, but this is America and we want instant gratification.
@HAIL - In a simple word: yes. I love to follow recruiting, but we've been running in circles here about this. But I don't get upset, because it shows lots of people wanting to get in on the discussion. I also think the anxiety has been heightened with Hoke pulling a Mack Brown and locking down 16 top prospects in the first month after signing day. I think Rational and I discussed this earlier, but I didn't expect Hoke to be this good of a recruiter (I'm sure that Mattison has been instrumental here, as well).
I like the new dynamic though: Urban's high-intensity rock-star status, and Hoke's more family based approach. Not that Urban doesn't portray a family at OSU or that Hoke isn't high intensity, that just seems to be the general consensus from recruits. It would appear that both approaches are working, though. Good for the rivalry, and the Big Ten.
Onward and Upward.
It's apples to oranges when comparing Tressel to Meyer....Meyer wants to cast a huge net and work out then come in, having his Ohio guys as his base to come back to....with the way recruiting is going he may have to prioritize them a bit more than he is used to...Tress used to work in and move out, meaning he'd work from Ohio and then sprinkle in some national stuff...Meyer's goal is to get the 20-25 best players in the country to come to Columbus year in and year out...whether that is 20 guys from Ohio and 5 national guys or vice versa, that is his goal...either way I anticipate 10-12 guys from Ohio each year in Meyer's classes, just like JT had about the same...the end results will be slightly better under Meyer, although JT was pretty good too, just how they get there will be different
I'll keep my two cents short and simple. I LOVE the fact that UFM is being compared to Cooper on a recruiting level and I LOVE that UFM knows what The Game means.
Everyone is getting so freaked out about ohio/notohio that, IMO, they lose sight of those two facts.
“The teams that don’t respect their coaches and don’t trust their coaches are the teams that go .500"
~Zach Boren
So Urban will pull in (hypothetically) Barrett, Bosa, Foster, Heuerman, Pocic, Smith, and Montelus and others then all that we will hear again is how great a national recruiter we have. Just relax and enjoy the ride, we will be just fine. AACC has pulled in some decent linemen and the players from Ohio that weren't on our radar. They would go somewhere else regardless. We will always get the Ohio players that fit our program and get the majority of national players Urban puts the full court press on.
For the last time stop doubting Urban. He isnt as successful as he is up to this point from luck, he is one of the best recruiters and he knows what he is doing and what he wants on this team. People need to stop worrying and look at the big picture in all of this. We will NEVER get all of the good players in Ohio and we need to recruit well outside of Ohio. End of story. Im sick of this garbage.
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
Here's one other way to look at it. Hoke is nailing guys that Tressel would've locked down no doubt. Very small sample size of course, but how did Tressel's recruits play against Meyer's recruits?
I like our chances.
Honestly, I think Hoke is doing a fine job, but as it has been said time and time again, not many of the guys Hoke got were guys Meyer wanted. Some of them were never going to get an offer and some were far down the pecking order. I don't worry much about Hoke landing Taco or Brian Kelly coming in and getting Zaire, because those are guys that Urban just didn't really want.
If Hoke comes in and starts nailing down guys like Marshall, Burrows, or Adolphus Wasington, then yes it's time to get concerned.
I have faith in Urban... hes won everywhere. his 2 rings say all I need to hear. Dont be surprised if some of these guys flip 2.... I mean Meyer does seem good at that.
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
who cares if he doesnt gets guys from OH, when it comes down to it all we care about is national championships, big ten championships, and beating TSUN. In the end when UFM holds up that national championship trophey no one will be thinking, boy im happy they won but he did it without a bunch of Ohio guys. If taking players from Ethiopia is going to win championships then by all means I'm down. Ohio State is a top tier school and should and will recruit like it. The critics will be silenced when UFM hoists up that crystal football in two years!!!!!
@Grayskull I don't like for you to get sick, so you might want to stop reading and posting on these types of threads. ;)
@BUCKEYEJIM......lol
O H I O is the Buckeye State
Appreciate all the responses, and I'm glad most saw that my post in no way was critical of Meyer's approach. I know it has been a much discussed topic but each day we go and each recruit we offer, we learn a little more about the madness behind Urban's methods, as Alex stated.
BTALBERT - Love the point about Hoke having Tress's recruits, but see how they performed against Meyer's recruits at UF. I think that can almost be said of the type of offense he is trying to run as well.
Also a quality points that we have the top 4 prospects in the state of Ohio locked up and that we are a talent flush state and can't keep them all at home.
Again, I'm not critical or judgemental of Urban's approach. I don't fully understand the "madness" but I certainly believe in his methods. I know when all is said and done, we'll have a top 5 class and we'll have the type of players he needs to fit his system.
Sorry if some of you are tired of talking about this, it is the off season, it was before we had spring practice to start, and Alex's article on JT got the wheels spinning in my mind about his approach.
To switch gears, Lachey, Spiels, Coop, Bruce (and I'm sure many others) at the first day of spring practice...
URBAN GETS IT!!!
@BuckeyeJim
Well I really like this website and the setup of the forums but what I dont like is the stupid speculation and people doubting Urban before he gets an entire recruiting year under his belt. Have a little faith people and step away from the cliff.
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
When it takes Mark Pantoni (Director of Player Personnel) to have to watch The Rivalry on HBO (two weeks ago) to understand what this is all about - it has me scared as hell !!
Don't believe me, go back in his twitter timeline.
Pantoni isn't from Ohio and graduated from Florida. At least he's being proactive about learning more, and he seems to be enjoying it at tOSU. I'm not scared about him at all. In the end, it's the on-the-field coaching staff that matters most. With that said, Withers is the only one without Ohio ties, but he has a great attitude and just wants to win. Plus, I have a feeling Coach Meyer would encourage all staff and players to learn more about the rivalry if necessary.
Agreed on Pantoni, Bassplayer. Besides, if you need a crash-course on what the rivalry's all about, there's not many better ways to go about it. I've lived in Ohio all my life, and though I know that the Iron Bowl means a lot to Alabama, I'll never understand it the way that my Auburn-graduate uncle does.
Bass - I'm good with that, but just hope he has "researched" what a even 12-1 record with the "1" being against a certain team will get him if that's repeated consistently over the next several years.
Hodge, you just made my point. Do you think think you or your uncle would be more qualified to be Director of Player Personnel for Alabama football?
I'm not sure the record reflects on Pantoni like it does the on-the-field coaching staff. I'm pretty sure Coach Meyer understands the rivalry, so he knows he needs to win those big games.
I'm sure if Hodge was to get a job at Auburn, he would start learning about their rivalries and traditions rather quickly. Not to mention he'd be sure to drink plenty of microbrews including some from TSUN...
@GraySkull. I was joking with you. I do need to change my mindset. The rivalry was the game for me, then get a nice bowl bid. Meyer is balls out NC. I have not seen a coach of his caliber and tenacity. Personally, I cannot wait for this season. I get pumped just thinking about it. Go Bucks!
Well played Bassplayer, well played haha.
Buckinin, I'd say that if I was a very well-regarded identifier of talent, I'd be a much better hire than my uncle. Pantoni's job is not to recruit players, it's to identify what players are on the coaches radar--and in that respect he's an absolute beast. Now, as a head coach, that would raise every last red flag imaginable, but he doesn't really interact with recruits--save for twitter. Besides, look at Withers, he has zero ties to our great state, so Meyer has put him to work recruiting his stomping ground. He's absolutely cleaning up in that respect, as well.
I fully understand your tepiadation, though--I just don't think Pantoni's job is one that necessarily requires Ohio ties. Think about Marotti, would you mind if he had no Ohio ties? I might for a second or two, until I saw his results. Regardless, I think we can both agree that the HBO special is some pretty awesome stuff--I watch it every year before the game with my Wolverine-loving best friend. Good stuff.
And Bassplayer, don't know if you fancy yourself a hophead or have sampled any of Green Flash's offerings--but if you dig insanely hoppy IPAS: check this out. Should be in nationwide very soon
Hodge, IPAs are my favorite, and I've had one of their IPAs before (probably the West Coast IPA). I will keep my eye out for it. Thanks!
No problem good sir, their West Coast is insane, I also really dig Great Divide's Titan.
Titan is also good, but my fave has to be Stone Ruination. On the topic of brews from TSUN, I like New Holland's IPAs, and Bells Two Hearted is also hard to beat.
Best I ever had from Michigan was Founder's Looking Glass, it's their Double Trouble Imperial IPA aged in brandy barrels. Probably one of the top ten beers I've ever had--along with about 4 other ones I had at their tasting.
I'll definitely have to consider some Founders brews next time that's an option. Speaking of options, have you ever been to a Binny's in Illinois? We need some here in Ohio!
Never heard of them, I take it they have a good tap selection?
I get so sick of listening to OSU fans talk about the rivalry. I've said this before and I'll say it again...the rivalry means way more to the fans than the players. As players, we wanna win the Big 10 and then a National Championship. Beating Michigan is a step in that process. But so is Michigan St, Purdue, Penn St, etc. If you polled most players, I bet more of them would consider Wisconsin our most hated rival right now over Michigan. I think most of you would rather have a 9-4 season with a win over Michigan than 12-1 and losing to them. To me that doesn't make sense at all, and it never will.
Urban is recruiting guys to win National Championships plain and simple. Yes, he wants to beat Michigan, but only because you can't win a NC when you lose during the regular season. At least for anyone other than SEC teams.
Hodge, Binny's stores are stocked full of adult beverages. http://www.binnys.com/index.cfm
Formerbuck, I happen to think Coach Meyer also wants to beat TTUN because they're TTUN. This rivalry has been pretty heated for over a century from what I've read.
@Formerbuck
Have you been listening to Mike and Mike the last few days? They've been debating who the rivalries mean more to--players or fans.
To me, if Michigan has already lost 3 or 4 games, before OSU and U of M meet, beating our mosted hated rival does salvage the season a little bit. If I could pick between beating OSU and going to play for the title, it's an obvious choice. Beating OSU or OSU beating Michigan is all about bragging rights---I'd rather be bragging about holding up the trophy (in which the other would appropriately respond with "we were better than you, etc").
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
@BASSPLAYER - If you ever are in Cincinnati, check out the Partysource. It's over in in Bellvue, KY--right across the border. It's like a supermarket full of beer, wine, and liquor!
@FORMERBUCK - I'll take a 12-1 BCS season with a loss to Michigan and a B1G championship...but I'd prefer a 10-2 BCS campaign with a B1G championship and a Michigan win.
Bassplayer and hodge,
Either of you guys try LAGUNITAS Hop Stoopid? One of my personal favs. Some of those you mentioned that I've tried are awesome as well.
As far as recruiting, I think we"ll be just fine. I am anxious to see some commitments(and think we will this weekend) but trust Meyer to do what he does best. When all is said and done, we're gonna have a great class, and as someone said earlier who's to say some of these recruits don't flip if offered? Signing day is a long way off, and we're gonna be just fine
Alpo, I have not tried that one. Another one I'll keep my eye out for. Thanks!
Bigtime hops my man, and if you can find it, Sierra Nevada's Hoptimum is also excellent. Both highly recommended IMO. If youre a fan of IPA'S, You wont be disappointed, I promise.
I have seen Hoptimum at Whole Foods, but I haven't tried it yet. I like pretty much everything else they make (Pale Ale, Torpedo Extra IPA, and Ruthless Rye IPA), so I have no doubt that Hoptimum would be great.
Formerbuck if you think players don't care about the rivalry and they think Wisky is our bigger rival then you are very mistaken my friend
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Bass, I love Sierra, and that's one of their best! Try it ASAP! It's rare around my parts and I've only been able to drink it twice...phenomenal...
Triv - Agreed.
There are a few former players on here we just don't label ourselves as such. Not sure what era Formerbuck is from, but that certianly wasn't even close to my experience. Take what you read here with a grain of salt - you have no idea who you are talking too.
@FORMERBUCK - I couldnt imagine any current or past Buckeye players sharing your same thoughts on the Michigan game. If you dont care about "THE GAME" and if its not the undisputed most IMPORTANT game of the year then you dont deserve to wear a Buckeye uniform....
I think the Michigan game matters to players at OSU and michigan, I just think fans take it to a different level. OSU has a ton of players from ohio and Michigan as a lot of players from Ohio as well. It is just like with Kyle Kalis he choose michigan over OSU and OSU fans bashed him like crazy. He almost certianly does not like OSU now and that plays a part in the rivarly.