McCray will announce his college choice on March 8 and does not have an OSU offer. Looks like Tennessee, Michigan, Illinois, Arizona, Oklahoma, and South Carolina. My guess is he picks Tennessee, but that is purely a guess.
This tells me one of two things:
- The staff told McCray he was never getting an offer so he decided to make his decision now. If this is the case, you have to think the staff either knows of a linebacker commit or two (Courtney Love) or feels REALLY good about the way certain prospects are leaning
- McCray wants to get "in" early somewhere to "save" his spot and could flip to OSU eventually if Meyer offers
We shall see how this one plays out.
I still don't get it. If we get Jaylon Smith, fine, but if not then we missed out on a great prospect.
I definitely feel that if he commits to Michigan he would be a late flip to Ohio if Urban offered. As a Michigan fan I really would not trust this kids commitment to us. It would not be too big of a loss because word is Levenberry is very high on us and may commit at the spring game, "if it feels right". Also, Dorian O'daniel is very high on Michigan, I just feel that if he commits to Michigan it may rub O'daniel the wrong way and force him to look elsewhere.
I do want to Note though, that Under Tressel there is no way a kid like this who is an Ohio legacy leaves the state. I think Urban will be more successful than RR in recruiting nationally, but god this all looks very similar.
I like this kid, I was hoping he'd be a Buckeye but sounds like Meyer isn't sold.
Don't count on Levenberry committing to ANY school any time soon ... and that means spring game soon...
Here is an article on Levenberry: his words not mine
http://looking-disciplined-coachespn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/story/_/id/7606196/ej-levenberry-watch-list-lb-family-
Especially with this kid going to Trotwood (and being Cam's teammate) you would just think out of sheer expectation that we would offer this kid. If he goes to scUM, I just hope Urban isn't setting himself up that we miss on in-state kids who go to scUM (because lets be honest they need Ohioians to have a team at TSUN) to get back at us, so we can recruit nationally and then it comes back to bite us later. However, I will say I completely trust Urban, time will tell if that trust pays off.
Mfan; not what I'm hearing. I'm pretty secure in the info I have with someone close to the situation.
Regardless of when he is going to announce, Spring game or signing day, as of today I really like our chances landing him.
Please don't ever compare Urban Meyer to Rich Rodriguez...one has two national titles in the SEC the other has a BCS win at West Virginia.....their spreads are different, their levels of recruiting are different, the level of talent they produce is different.....I get what you're saying but I will eat my own feces if Urban Meyer is Rich Rod at Ohio State
Alex, that last sentence cracked me up... LOL
Did I not say Urban will definitely have more success than Rich Rod doing that? I just do not think Urban Meyer is gonna lock down Ohio the way Tressel did, that is clearly evident early on. Rich Rod let sparty take the 3 or 4 recruits in Michigan that are always Michigan locks because he was out recruiting the south. Urban Meyer is going to be very successful but it will not be as successful as the Tressel era. That era was complete dominance! He MAY win a national championship one of these years but he will not dominate the big ten and Michigan the way Tressel did! I can guarantee that!
Okay, rational, let's see how "rational" you are, below is a list of the top 10 (per Rivals) of the players in Ohio:
1) Cam Burrows- Ohio State Commit
2) Jalin Marshal- Ohio State Commit
3) Dymonte Thomas- TSUN
4) Evan Lisle- Ohio State Lean, Ohio State Offer
5) Mike McCray- without a Ohio State offer
6) Shelton Gibson- Ohio State Lean, Ohio State offer
7) Billy Price- Ohio State Commit
8) Lovell Peterson- Ohio State Lean, without a Ohio State offer
9) Ross Douglas- I haven't heard much chatter on this guy, so please feel free to add your own comments
10) Caleb Day- Ohio State lean, with a Ohio State offer
Now, the leans is only what I've read, so take these as IMO. However, I think this list PRETTY much speaks for itself. So I think, and again, IMO, I think your comment is WAY off base. I pretty much, eat, drink, and sleep Ohio State Recruiting, if it could be my "second" job I would probably do it. I can see how you can say that the fence won't go up like Tress had it (and I think a lot of us wonder why we haven't offered some kids as opposed to others) however, Urban has a track record of success (thanks Alex!) and we have to trust what he's done. As far as the "domination" of the B10 and scUM, first, thanks for acknowledging it, but more importantly second, all I can say....is time will tell! And I can gurantee that as well!
Thank you JasonBuck....was just going to say that name someone Meyer WANTED in Ohio that he didn't get...Dymonte Thomas is it....and he may be a Buckeye come next February....there are over 100 D1 players in Ohio next year....Ohio State can only take about 20 players and I expect 12 or so to be from Ohio...someone else has to get the rest...
You're welcome Alex! And I couldn't agree with you more. Just bothers me that these scUM fans come to our board and start talking without seeing both sides (as I've commended M Man more times than I can count) which is something I think is essential and respected here. However, making gurantee's and comments without knowing the facts, that's just....(insert your own word here)!
If McCray does in fact soon announce his commitment, I'd consider it the first casualty of the scholarship reductions. If we could take 25 this year, he'd already have an offer, and if he were a little more patient, he might still have seen an offer for this year. Unlike some of the other Ohio guys who have decided early to go elsewhere, I'm sorry to see this one get away.
You guys are clearly not understanding the point I am trying to make. I am saying that there are kids in the past that Tressel would keep such as as a Jake Butt who fits a Tressel like scheme who would not leave the state. Taco Charlton would of got an offer under Tressel as well. That is the point I am trying to make.Mccrary as well and it seems like he is leaving the state. I was at a coaches clinic in Cincinnati and chatted it up with a lot of HS coaches who were from Ohio and they even said they are not happy that some of the kids who would get offers under Tressel are not getting them with Meyer.
In regards to the top 10 in ohio:
* Jalin Marshall did not have a Michigan offer
* Lisle did have a Michigan offer, but I do not think it was a commitable one, he clearly was not one of our top targets. I also find it interesting that he was offered hours after Saban offered him last week. Maybe an Alabama offer was good enough for Meyer to pull the trigger.
* Gibson does not have a Michigan offer
* Peterson, Douglas and Day do not have Michigan offers. Douglas may get one late in the game.
This is based on Rivals. It can go both ways guys.
I have said repeatedly that you guys will have success recruiting but you Ohio guys should know that there is a different sense of pride playing for your home state rather then having a kid from Arizona play for Ohio or Michigan for that Matter. Ohio kids who play for Michigan though still understand the rivalry.
@AHHH SATURDAY (like the s/n by the way!) I completely agree with you. I think a lot of what we are seeing has to do with the scholly reductions. However, it's not like we aren't going after Ohio kids. I just think Urban knows he has to get in early with out of state kids to really have a chance to land some of them. He's taking time to evaluate in-state talent because he knows he can. This is all just IMO of course.
Hey, Alex, "Your a moron!"
Sorry, that just seemed like it should be posted here as well.
Anyone else care to counter point "rational", I'm done at this point. However, when it comes to "I was at a coaches clinic in Cincinnati and chatted it up with a lot of HS coaches who were from Ohio and they even said they are not happy that some of the kids who would get offers under Tressel are not getting them with Meyer." I would link you to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ2Rvb68pwc
I mean, I would be "un-happy" too (sarcasm).
Well it's going to be between 3 schools, Illinois Michigan and Tennessee and he has a visit to Michigan on March 6th. I don't think he will know where he wants to commit until after he hears the scUM coaches give their spiel.
The fact that these Ohio kids leaving state just goes to show that Meyer will not offer, nor accept, commitments from fringe Ohio kids. He's going after the very best there is. Whether that need be filled from California, Texas or Florida, so be it. This "fence being down" under Meyer is in fact his strategy after all; he's a national recruiter with national appeal to pluck not only the nations best, but the "few" Ohio kids deemed worthy to fit his program. Meatchicken fans allude to this "fence being down" when in fact it's not a part of Meyer's recruiting scheme.
@JasonBuck, as long as we're agreeing with each other, I agree with you on Urban's approach to extending offers to OOS prospects first. The thing is many on this board seem to think that this is new whereas it is standard operating procedure for nearly every coach -- except possibly Mack Brown. In fact it isn't even new here at OSU. People are either misremembering JT's recruiting approach or maybe they never knew what he was doing, but here are some facts about his last few recruiting classes to add to the discussion: 2011 23 signed (9 out of state); 2010 19 (9); 2009 25 (11); 2008 20 (11).
I am done talking about this too. That is all coach speak. We will see what happens I guess.
With that said, love the football talk and recruiting. I am not someone who is trying to troll on here. I really just enjoy Michigan/Ohio talk and recruiting.
Good point Saturday, I just think it's more in focus since we are in the national spot light (I guess it comes with having a rock star recruiter/coach). Time will tell how everything pans out. And Rational, appreciate your points of view, but I think our (and everyone else) loyalties shade every opinion. True in real life as it is here (sometimes I think more so here).
@ "rational", maybe nobody is understanding your point because you're not making a point. You are simply patting yourself on the back because michigan received commitments from two guys that weren't going to get OSU offers, and now you want us to pat you on the back as well.
The "Ohio" picture made me laugh and AHHH Saturday, it's just his "coach speak" we aren't meant to understand (now that made me laugh when I typed it). Not attacking "rational", but you have to admit that's funny!
No I do not need anyone to "pat me on the back". What Hoke is doing speaks for itself. A few of you guys just want Michigan fans to come here and stroke your ego and if not they are not welcomed here. I left Mgoblog because the guys are the same way towards Ohio fans. Guess healthy dialogue is not welcomed here either.
@RATIONAL - I don't think that it's just Meyer's national recruiting that is freeing up Ohio kids. As previously mentioned, the 3 scholly loss is hurting us, and is probably the biggest reason McCray isn't getting an offer. But, looking at who Meyer's picked up for LB already, it doesn't really seem like McCray is an outright "fit" for the new, speed-conscious Silver Bullets. Kid's a hard hitter, no doubt, but he clocks a 4.6 in the 40--which is too slow for the speed Meyer's trying to recruit. Shazier, Marcus, and Perkins are all 4.5 or under--that's where Meyer's going, and a 4.6 lagacy didn't merit an early offer with reduced scholarships, even if it meant neglecting a pipeline.
I'm sure we're going to see a more national approach than we did under Tressel, no doubt. But keep in mind, Tressel's dominance was also fueled by a weak Big Ten, and a rare downturn in Michigan (who is, coincidentally, the second-best recruiter of our great state). The momentum you're seeing is because Hoke's a smart guy, and he recognizes two things: (1) his program has a lot of momentum now, and (2) Meyer is offering the best out-of-state kids and holding back on a lot of in-state guys (but keeping in constant contact), to get better looks in camp. Hoke's getting in there early and getting Ohio kids on Meyer's backburner (with the exception of one Dymonte Thomas). Not to mention that Hoke and Meyer are sometimes targeting fundamentally different players (a point you previously mentioned, I think).
Personally, I think you'll still see Meyer largely getting his choice of the litter here in Ohio, probably taking a lower percentage of in-state kids (but I don't think it'll be a drastic difference compared to Tressel), and being a little less conservative with schollies once we get back to 85.
**EDIT - It also should be mentioned that since Meyer's only looking for two LBs in this class, that too would explain Meyer's hesitance on McCray. He'd have been a lock in last year's class, but then again we picked up Williams (MA), Marcus (NC), and Perkins (IN)--that's 60% of the LB haul coming from out-of-state.
healthy dialogue is welcomed....Rational is definitely not trolling and makes points that are biased, yet legit from his point of view...I wouldn't expect completely unbiased comments as he is a Michigan fan...just like our comments are biased towards OSU.....you are welcome here Rational
Agreed Rational is welcome here, and I like Hodge's post (although I thought Marcus had closer to 4.6 speed).
Thanks Alex and I personally enjoy talking to Ohio fans about the rivalry rather than Michigan fans because the Michigan fans always have rose colored glasses on. With that said, I definitely love what Hoke is doing and he has really excited the whole fanbase and think Meyer is going to have a lot of success as well setting up for a new 10 year war.....I hope.
I stand corrected, he's clocked at a 4.6 as well. But it was his athletic abilities that he showcased on his highlight reel that piqued Meyer's interest in the first place.
Yes Rational, definitely welcome here! Like I said our loyalties will always shade our opinions. I appreciate a healthy debate, even though we'll probably never come to a conclusion. Plus, during our "point counter point" conversation I found out about a prospect I haven't heard any chatter on. Alex have you head anything on that kid on my list? He's a athlete out of Avon I think?
Ross Douglas is his name. Sorry, couldn't recall his name.
To all those saying we missed out on a "great" prospect, consider this:
Urban Meyer and Mark Pantoni know what they're doing. McCray has often been criticised for his speed in pursuit, something SEC defenses destroy offenses with. Maybe he just didn't fit what Urban wanted at OLB?
I've heard some say McCray could outgrow the LB position and become a DE, and, this season, we may only take a DE if they're a big time talent. Thoughts?
A legacy getting a scholly is a nice story but I'd rather have Marcus, Perkins, and Perry than mccray. He's a good player but apparently not good enough for us anymore.
I just don't think Meyer/Fickell/Pantoni see what others do in McCray. He also plays in Division II, so it's not "the best" competition in Ohio. I trust their scouting evaluations. You don't always need to pick the "acclaimed" recruit, Urbs is looking for people to fit his system and style of play. Maybe McCray doesn't?
Rational,
Just stop calling us the Bobcats!
You can kill a fly with your slipper or a cannon. Either way, the fly dies. -Ramzy
@Bassplayer- McCrays size is definitely a factor here, IMO. IF OSU didn't get Jamal Marcus, I'd imagine that McCray would definitely have an offer by now because they're similar in build and in the same spot. But as it is, with the LB haul we had last year, we're only taking 2 in '13 and looking at kids like Jaylon Smith and Anzalone, who both are very fast, sideline-to-sideline type kids.
If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target
@BASSPLAYER - I can see that as well. Personally, I think this is a non-issue when we sign another top 5 class on NSD. It's a well-known fact that Meyer gets a lot of kids later on in the process at hat ceremonies (I think Alex mentioned this earlier, but it's worth repeating). Give him time to work his magic, and we'll be reaping the benefits of a loded (and lauded) class.
He's one of the best at playing "the hat game"...
I'd agree about the staff wanting fast kids at LB. I know I want to see a dominant Defense and not a D that struggles to keep up with the Offense like we've seen a time or two...
Agreed with all of you. I just think the recruiting "game" for tOSU is on a whole different level now. @Hodge, definitely agree with you. After NSD in Feb '13 we'll see how it all wraps up and of course start talking about NSD Feb '14!
I just don't see the issue with locking down Ohio or not locking it down. Mc Cray didn't get an offer because there are several other LB's on Urban's radar who are better for his system. Ohio Guys like Mc Cray would've been OSU locks with Tressel, to be sure. He liked big, physical, plodding LB's. They worked in his system and he got some good ones. Urban like fast nasty guys like Shazier and Brandon Spikes.
If Michigan gets McCray, more power to them, but Urban doesn't want the kid. Legacy or not, Ohio Kid or not, he doesn't fit the system. Good luck where ever you go kid.
To me the question isn't would Tressel have landed guys like McCray, the question is would Tressel have been able to land Burrows, Marshall, or Adolphus Washington from last year's class. I'm not convinced that answer is yes.
Yeah Rational, if you want to discuss Ohio, you can go here :)
If Tressel were still the coach and Hoke were coming into Ohio and grabbing kids like McCray that would've been Tressel locks in the past, then yeah it'd be a problem, but Urban is landing the elite talent from Ohio. Thomas picking Michigan as early has he did, had nothing to do with Meyer either. It was more because of the staff not showing interest early on before Meyer came aboard.
Hoke can have the guys that Tressel would've had on lock down. I'm not saying they won't be good players, they just aren't what Urban wants. If hoke starts stealing the Elite Ohio Kids on a regular basis, then I'll be worried. At this time he's just not doing that. Sure he got Kalis and Thomas, but those really had not much to do with Meyer and Thomas isn't over just yet.
I'll drink to that BT.
Just on a feeling and pure guess, I doubt he goes to UofM. If he's already set to decide and hasn't even taken his official there yet (not until the 6th), I see him visiting to just make sure he's not missing anything and is 100% on the school he already chose.
"Love my State, hate the football"
I know some tsun fans just like rational.. they make a couple nice comments and try to sneak in something like calling Ohio State ..... Ohio and then he probly goes back to the mgoblow blog and laughs about it..
Speaking for myself I'll let you know you wont get any respect from me
O H I O is the Buckeye State
I don't understand why other teams fans post here? I mean what are you trying to do? Call them Ohio State or leave, like everyone else. We don't call you guys the maize and blow, the pee and blue on here. Your posts are valueless as soon as you add a "snarky" comment like that.
actually recruitbuck, we do call them scUM, Ann Arbor Community College, TTUN, M*chigan., almost anything but their real name. so I am torn on this issue. Maybe since it is a site dedicated to OSU he could call us by the right name here and whatever he wants everywhere else...
I'm with RECRUITBUCK on this one. Not sure why UM fans would want to be active on an OSU sports website? Not sure I really trust an opinion from a UM fan, kinda feels like they are fishing for info or fuel for the fire. Only reason I could think to go to UM websites is to pick pointless arguments for shits and giggles.
I see no other reason for scUM fans posting on this website besides the fact they just dont have a site as awesome as we do. Do I hear jealousy anyone?
I honestly don't give two shits if they call us Ohio... it just makes them look stupid since there is a different school by the same name... whatever floats their boat
Cause I couldn't go for three
I come on this board just to get another perspective. I am a member on a few Michigan Boards. Like I said, I like talking to other fans because when you talk to your own fans they can be homerish at times. By the way all I ever see on here is scUM, TTUN, Ann Arbor Community College ( that is one that makes no sense, considering UM is a top university) Hoke came in and started calling you guys Ohio and to be honest I thought it was corny at first, but it has grown on me only because I see it has made buckeyes furious. Case in point here. Lol sorry I am sticking with it just how I would expect you guys to keep calling us those little nicknames. Not jealous at all, the set up here is very good but the Rivals Message Board is great. It is really all you need if you are a Michigan fan.
Xtremebuckeye (fits well) I never came here asking for anyone's respect. I can't stand Ohio more than you cannot stand Michigan. But I respect the hell out of you guys as a program and I love this rivalry. It is part of who I am and it is what I grew up on. I just come on here to chat it up so I can experience it a little more than 3 and a half hours every November.
The whole Ohio, OSU issue is wierd especially since I actually will be going to OU due to scholarships. My OSU loyalties were bought with money =P I'll always be an OSU fan though, born one and will die one.
Favorite Buckeye: Obviously BJ Mullens
Call me crazy, but I dig the banter betwixt Michigan and Ohio State fans. I think it makes the site better as a whole. I don't think anyone we've got on here is trolling or anything, and it gives us someone else to bounce opinions off. I'll come clean, I don't hate Michigan with the veracity of others on this site, but like everyone else here, I live, eat, sleep and breathe buckeye football. The rivalry goes beyond hate for me...it instills a certain reverence, almost brunging me to tears. Yes I know i take this too seriously. Sure, i hope they lose almost every game of the season (while paradoxically hoping they maintain their elite status as a football power) It's a secular religion to me, and like it or not--something we share with our enemies up North. HAIL, RATIONAL, and M MAN are the same as us, they just happen to offer insights to the contrary of ours. Do we have to like and agree with said views? No, but that's what intelligent banter is for, and what separates our online community from the ESPN boards. But, should we respect each other and value opposing insight? I think so.
The thing that I love about this site above all else is the intelligence displayed over the discussion. Sure, we may disagree and the discussions may get heated, but we never resort to trolling or name calling. 11W is gaining in popularity and Michigan fans are to be expected to join in the banter. Our mods will take care of the trolls, of that I'm quite sure (back me up M1EK). Until then, enjoy the debate, we may not like each others views, but I enjoy defending mine, along with the rest of Buckeye Nation's!
You're a good man Hodge. You may remember that you & I see the rivalry in a similar light.
On visiters - I tend to take the view that 11W is so good that other fans flock here. It's not just UM fans but SEC people (Catch 5 & Amos) as well. I'm proud to say I don't know what the hell goes on with other teams sites. I don't have time or interest to visit them, so when other fans do come here it speaks volumes about the quality of this site and the lack of quality elsewhere...
As for the "Ohio" thing - my wife & her whole UM graduate family has been saying "Ohio" instead of Ohio State for years. I'm personally used to it. I think its funny that some M______n fans think that Brady Hoke started it. He didn't. He's just trying to pretend hes a real Michigander or whatever the hell people indigenous to that state are called. Michiganites? Who knows....but if Rational wants to come here and call tOSU "Ohio" in every post - which does seem like an obvious attempt at some subtle shit-stirring - so be it. The poor guy doesn't even like reading his own sites and like all folks from that state has had to come to Ohio to find something good...I understand completely.
Edit: probably should have written "like all folks from that school" above but I didn't.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
I care about fans of our rival posting here equally as much as I care about fans of our rival calling tOSU "Ohio" which basically means I could not care less--life goes on.
If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target
"The poor guy doesn't even like reading his own sites and like all folks from that state has had to come to Ohio to find something good...I understand completely."
Depending on interests, Michigan (the State) has some of the best freshwater fishing in the world, great camping and wildlife in the UP, sleeping bear dunes, the most coast line of any State etc. Not sure why MI people would be flocking to OH for fun. I'm really not being biased because I live in MI as I spend probably 3 months out of the year in OH in Cbus and the surrounding area. Columbus personally is one of my favorite cities to spend time in (including MI cities), but outside of that, I can't call OH a FUN State. I'm not saying OH doesn't have fun aspects though and I don't live there to fully appreciate it. I'm not looking to get into a "flame" war here and won't respond anymore to this...just a little defending from comments that generalize the population of an entire State. Hating a team is what NCAA football is all about, thinking the population of "your" State is superior in every way to another State is arrogant at best
Go Buckeyes!
"Love my State, hate the football"
I have not been back to this site since since I questioned the scUM fans on here and was "chastised" for it by only a few, not many. I thought my feelings were in the minority but I see it may not be. I was even put in my place by an OSUfan saying I could not conduct proper healthy dialogue. Quite amusing. It seems there are now more scUM fans coming here. They are here, IMO, to push their POV, in order to feel better about their team. And I feel, IMO, that is all there is to it. These posters are even questioned about sincerity on scUM boards and some go back to scUM boards to gloat about their musings here. To even have the name "rational" says alot about what is wanted to be perceived in order to get time and ears to hear this self-indulging view. I originally came to this site because I thought it was an OSU only news and recruiting site which is what I loved about it. I really only want OSU info and updates. I do not care to read about scUM WR needs or what some random fan thinks scUM is looking to do in recruiting. Why waste my time reading who knows scUM fans opinion on scUM? Just my two cents as I am only one person. Please no OSU fan get ruffled over any of my personal thoughts as reading the latest pushed me to post. Peace.
Like Rational Mfan said, we come here to get a viewpoint from the other side. This is a very nice site, for a Buckeye site, and, for the most part, most of the OSU fans are pretty decent that I've run into. ESPN and Bucknuts is pretty much the opposite and the fans on there are stuck behind their Scarlet colored glasses beyond reason. At least here if something negative happens to OSU or Positive happens to U of M, most people can acknowledge that. Plus, I can get on here at work ;)
I don't call OSU "Ohio" on here, mainly because I don't want to see the 5-10 replies about how you're not Ohio (Even though you spell out O-H-I-O and script "Ohio," etc.) I do find it humorous how a lot of you get worked up about it. I've always liked being called TSUN.
And don't be farsighted in thinking that MGoBlog, Tremendous, TTB, and our 247 board aren't quality Michigan sites, among others. And for those that don't visit any of our blogs, know that there are quite a few Buckeyes, Domers, Spartys, and even Alabama fans that frequent them.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Actually, I think the Bobcats may get more upset about the "Ohio" comments than tOSU fans, but I've been wrong before...
@BASSPLAYER7770 The Bobcats certainly do get more upsethttp://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/02/michigan-brady-hoke-ohio-state-upset-ohio/1#.T0zgmfApqCk
M Man is the only non Ohio State fan who has been commenting on this site for quite some time. Others come and go and I expect completely that will continue to be the case. Michigan is hot in recruiting right now, and unfortunately, Hoke won his first "The Game" last season. So while they are landing recruits left and right and have that win to be proud of, their fans will come to this site to see if we are talking bad about their class, coach, or discounting the guys they recruit. It's much the same as how fans run to MGoBlog to see how their fans are rationalizing that landing Marshal or Burrows is no big deal.
I have a feeling when Urban's class is up to 13 and appears to be the best class in America at that point, we won't hear so much from other fans.
Although, overall I don't mind the guys who have come on here. They all are respectful and aren't trolling really. Although, I'd say that many of the comments that have been made, like sneaking Ohio into every comment, would be punishable by Banhammer on the Hippie's site. Seems like they have not tolerance for anyone that's is a fan of a team other than the skunk weasils.
In my opinion, that is the most over rated blog on the internet, I've never understood the hoopla. I can't blame fans from leaving that site and looking to other sources like 11W.
Alex, or does anyone have any inside info on why exactly Urban isn't offering this kid, beyond the general we are after better players?
He's a great player (Top 50 Nationally) with great measureables, sure I would rather land Jaylon Smith (Yes his brother is on the team but he is no way a lock and in interviews doesn't seem very interested) and no we cant take many LB's. But, McCray is an Ohio Kid who clearly wants to play for Ohio State, I don't want him going somewhere else especially tsun!
Obviously Urban recruits differently than Tress and thus far I have no complaints results speak for themselves. But during his introduction speech Urban said something along the lines of "We are going to get the best coaching staff... and the best players especially the best players from Ohio." Trotwood is one of the more fertile programs in the state I don't know why Urban would jeopardize landing any future players out of that school. Even with Cam Burrows on board you never know what effect not taking Mike McCray might have.
I understand the coaching staff will have to be more selective with scholarships over the next few years, but with no guarantee of kids signing see Stefon Diggs. I don't see why you would potentially let a top 50 player Nationally walk out of your own back yard. I also don't like the precedent that might be set by coming back to him in a few months if the "primary options" don't pan out and trying to flip his commitment. While I think the "gentlemens agreement" is BS and that recruiting isn't over until its over. However, I also think there is a big difference between zealous recruiting and underhanded recruiting and letting a kid commit elsewhere only to come back to him later and try to flip him is dangerously skirting that line. Further, its puts the kids in a very tough spot that 17-18 year olds shouldn't be put in.
Stepping off the soapbox, anyone got any info?
@UpNorth - I was being a smart ass. Don't know how else to say it. I felt like one of the UM "commentors" was fanning some flames in a "friendly" way and I was just throwing it back. Just a few jabs...It was supposed to sound arrogant but more like jokingly arrogant. I've been to that state and it has some good stuff. It also has Detroit. I was speaking mainly to that school depending on Ohioans to do great things in the athletic department not the fishing & camping which I'm sure is great...But they also have Detroit. The fact that you're a student at that school but an Ohio State fan is an anomoly. If you ever see me razzing rival fan - its in good fun. But I'm dead serious about Detroit. Its bad there.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
@POISON - First off, thanks for the kind words, seems like the two of us always wind up on the same threads haha. I'll concede Michigan's superiority to our great state only once, in one arena; their Microbrew scene blows Ohio's out of the water. Not that ours is a slouch (I love Great Lakes as much as anybody, and CBC, Hoppin' Frog, Thirsty Dog, and Rivertown are pretty good as well), but Michigan's the home to some of my favourite breweries. I mean, Bell's, Jolly Pumpkin, New Holland, Dark Horse Brewing and (my absolute favourite brewery ever) Founder's--ALL IN ONE STATE?
Went to a Founder's tasting here in Columbus, best beer of my life. Highly reccommended to any of you beer geeks out there.
@Corveyer:
That is the thing I was trying to get at. But I guess the approach is just different with the new regime and that is fine if it works. Will it? Probably so, since UM is a proven recruiter. But, at the same time I am glad that this frees up guys for Michigan in the State.
Also, just an interesting note that I realized with players we got from the south with RR. They tend to be more soft when the weather got cold. Not all of them of course, but it is something I started to realize with some of the players from the warmer climates. They also had trouble holding on to the football. Denard Robinson was and continues to be at times a fumbling machine. He has had a few big fumbles against you guys in the last two years at critical moments.( First drive of the game last year in the shoe in the redzone) Not saying this will transcend to the recruits you guys get it but just something to note as a fan.
In regards to Mccray, the former staff in Columbus was very high on him. To be honest, that was enough for me to know Mccray is a great player. Say what you want about the former staff and the playcalling, but those guys knew defense and I trust guys who developed the likes of AJ Hawk, Bobby Carpenter, James Laurinitis etc. With that said, I am almost 95 percent confident he picks us on March 8. But, only 50 percent confident he signs with us on February. I think UM comes in with a late offer and swoops this kid from us. I really do not trust this commitment and hope our staff is smart enough to realize this. Especially with that way UM loves the publicity flips late in the recruiting process.
@RATIONAL - I didn't think McCray had visited you guys yet? I thought he was taking his visit like two days before announcing? Or are you just figuring that Hoke will close him on his OV?
Hodge, I'm a beer geek, and now I'm thirsty...
Rational, I'm not sure I see UFM offering McCray late unless we end up not getting any of our current targets. Out of curiosity, why are you 95% sure McCray picks TTUN when he'll be deciding 2 days after his visit? Has he already visited?
He has visited us in the past, was at our night game against Notre Dame and he talks to a lot of our coaches on a consistent basis. He also has struck quite the friendship with Taco Charlton. Again, I could be totally off with this, but I do feel good about him committing to us on March 8th. In February? Well we will see.
I also think him visiting on the 6th is to just come up there and reassure himself on his decision. Take it for what it is worth, I think his decision is already made. Also, the other choices really just do not compare to Michigan. Not an elitist view by any stretch, Just do not think Illinois and Tennessee are on the same level as us or you guys for that matter.
Southern players have been pretty good at Ohio State. I'll take Brian Rolle, Santonio, and the new blood like Shazier any time. There are others from the south like Abdallah who wound up being pretty good players for Ohio State too. I don't buy the cold impacting southern players excuse too much. I've said as much many times to people on this site about southern teams playing up north in the cool/cold weather. It rarely gets cold during a football season anymore anyway, at least not cold enough to matter, plus the guys live in it and practice in it, so it's not as if a day where it's in the 50's is a shock to a guy who is walking to class every day and practicing outside every day, like it would be for a guy from Miami flying up to play one game. Although even then I'm not convinced it matters.
Ohio State still has the top players in Ohio coming in. The top 2 in fact. So, we don't land all top 10 from the state. I'll take 7 of the top 10 plus the top player in New Jersey, Indiana, and some of the best in Florida, Georgia, or Texas. I think people are making too much of McCray not being offered. Urban has shown star rating doesnt matter. He went after a 3 star LB from North Carolina last year and got him. He wants a specific skill set. If a 3 star from Ohio has it but McCray doesn't, he'll be with that 3 star. Maybe he sees McCray as one of those project guys who could need a redshirt to be ready to contribute. He would be perfect for Tressel or maybe what Hoke wants to do, but for whatever reason, he's not what Meyer wants. Good luck to the kid where ever he goes, but it's not going to be a huge loss. If Ohio State went after him but didn't really want him, it would be detrimental to both the school and the McCray. He would never reach his potential and the team would waste a schollie on someone who just doesn't fit.
If he goes somewhere else he may become a much better player than he would here at Ohio State. Urban can use that schollie to bring someone he wants in that will make Ohio State better.
Great post, BTAlbert- I agree with pretty much everything you said.
If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target
Due to the schollie reductions I don't see anyway OSU takes more than 3 LBs for '13. We will wait until LOID for J. Smith, though I hope we don't have to. Many have suggested that C. Love is already in. That leaves one spot and plenty of offers: Anzalone, Gedeon, Levenberry, O'Daniel, Kalambayi. IF none of those prospects is showing interest --unlikely imo-- the next offers go out, and my guess is that T. Kimbrough is probably next in line for an offer. In other words, a lot had to go wrong for OSU before McCray got an offer. He knew it, and has decided to go elsewhere. Come signing day, my guess is we'll look pretty good at LB, and Urban will not be trying to "flip" McCray.
@AHH Saturday-- Hinton has told multiple LBs in the '13 class that they want to see them at camp because they are only taking 2 in this next class and they want them to be the best 2 in the nation.
Agree though, don't see any way Urban will be trying to "flip" McCray down the road.
If you ain't a Silver Bullet, you're a target
@TLL -- I think J. Smith is the key to LB numbers. Imo, Smith is certainly no lock, but I think we're in good shape for him. If he commits early, we'll take two LBs, but the longer he waits the more likley it is that we take three. If he does go elsewhere, the number will be two.
I don't mind the TSUN fans being here, but let's try to stay on point. This thread is suppose to be about McCray announcing. Why don't you guys start your own thread on the subject of TSUN posters on this site.
Why are we blaming Urban so much for McCray's lack of an offer? Does anyone not think that any of our two D coordinators might not have some little bit of say on who does or does not get an offer to play defense as tOSU? Glancing at an article about the linebacker showings at the combine (originally from NC, so am a bit of a Panther's fan, not that the NFL game is as fun as the College one anymore but I digress). As I read through a really great write up of the LB prospects in this year's draft, one that jumped out at me was Zach Brown, a beyond impressive athlete coming out of UNC. Slowing down, the kid ran a 4.5 at the combine. This is the type of athlete, obviously, that Withers wants for his defense, that I'm sure Luke wants as well. Not someone who is a legacy, great, but maybe is more the "traditional Big Ten LB" than the speedy athlete that they are now targeting. Not that Love is the flash from what I can tell, but perhaps he's a better all around athlete than McCray (both are listed at 4.6 range 40's) - Alex or someone else would be better qualified to say tham I am. I agree with all of the talk of scholarship numbers being the biggest enemy - where before we could afford to take that third LB which might have been McCray, this year we can't. Especially if we have true need elsewhere. No hard feelings from that, and it is unlikely Tress would have done much different. He would take J. Smith, then the first Ohio LB of the bunch to commit, and call it a day on his LB recruiting. Just keep in mind, Meyer's not the only cook in the kitchen. While he'll get the headlines for being the closer, he does have a braintrust behind him helping make these offer decisions.
Quick side note, I agree with Rational that UT and the Fighting Zooks (forever shall they be), are not in the same ball park as the Big 2 or the best of the SEC. I'm sure they're good schools, and good fits for a lot of kids, but both of those programs would be fighting to win their conference on a very good year, vs. UM and OSU and the 'Bamas of the world who are shooting for much higher goals. Can't say I follow the "Ohio" thing though, given there is, in fact, an Ohio already in the state of Ohio. If anything, its more weird/annoying, and I think if anything, any "anger" comes at the Ohio U getting dissed in the process. As, to the best of my knowledge, there is in fact no Ann Arbour Community College, but rather Washtenaw Community Collegen - that and the "School up North" or what have you at least has some historical context.
Zach Brown of course being different from this Zac Brown, just to be clear. I'm sure Wither's ain't tryin' to get anyone up here who can out sing him. Hence, Courtney Love, having learned from his mistakes at UNC?
I think he commits to Michigan. I think the visit right before he announces bodes well for Hoke and Co. Most of our commits have come the day of, or right after, their visit. Bosch, for example said he was pretty sure he wanted to go to U of M but wanted to go back to make sure he got the same feeling. I'm thinking that is why he made the declaration of announcing on the 8th.
I think the theme of this thread overlaps with a lot of the other "top" Ohio recruits. It's not just a lack of an OSU offer for McCray that is perplexing (though with his dad playing for OSU, maybe the most), but there are some other kids that were all about OSU that Urban didn't offer.
FWIW, Below is a list of the top players from Ohio per 247 and the breakdown between Michigan and OSU. This list was put together by a fellow named Ducksworth.
1. ATH Jalin Marshall --- OSU offer but no Michigan, committed to OSU
2. CB Cameron Burrows --- offers from both, committed to OSU
3. S Dymonte Thomas --- offers from both, committed to UM
4. WR Shelton Gibson --- OSU offer but no Michigan
5. DE Taco Charlton --- UM offer but no OSU, committed to UM
6. QB Malik Zaire --- OSU offer but no Michigan
7. TE Jacob Matuska --- UM offer but no OSU
8. LB Mike McCray --- UM offer but no OSU
9. CB Darian Hicks --- offers from neither
10. DT Billy Price --- offers from both, committed to OSU
11. RB Argeros Turner --- offer from neither
12. DT Donovan Munger --- offer from neither (both should be coming shortly)
13. OL Evan Lisle --- offers from both (although UM has stopped recruiting him due to high numbers of OL)
14. ATH Ben Gedeon --- offers from both
15. ATH Jake Butt --- UM offer but no OSU, committed to UM
16. C Lovell Peterson --- offer from neither
17. LB Darrien Howard --- offer from neither
18. RB DeVeon Smith --- offers from both
19. CB Ross Douglas --- offer from neither
20. ATH Marcus McWilson --- offer from neither, committed to Nebraska
21. ATH Caleb Day --- offer from neither
22. LB Courtney Love --- OSU offer but no Michigan
23. QB TraVon Chapman --- offer from neither
24. RB Chris Davis --- offer from neither
25. WR Kevin Gladney --- UM offer but no OSU
26. LB Shane Jones --- UM offer but no OSU
27. QB Kyle Kempt --- offer from neither
28. WR Jaron Dukes --- UM offer but no OSU, committed to UM
Michigan Offers without OSU offers
DE Taco Charlton --- commit
LB Mike McCray
TE Jacob Matuska
TE Jake Butt --- commit
WR Kevin Gladney
LB Shane Jones
WR Jaron Dukes --- commit
WR Rob Wheelwright
CB Gareon Conley
OSU offers without UM offers
ATH Jalin Marshall --- committed to OSU
WR Shelton Gibson
QB Malik Zaire
LB Courtney Love
OL Evan Lisle
QB Mitch Trubisky
OSU and UM offers
CB Cameron Burrows --- committed to OSU
S Dymonte Thomas --- committed to UM
DT Billy Price --- committed to OSU
ATH Ben Gedeon
RB DeVeon Smith
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Good post Hail. The only two I would take on that list of UM commits and UM offers w/ no Ohio State offers are McCray and Dymonte Thomas.
I agree with BT as well. I've been watching that video of UFM at the Ohio HS coaches meeting and I'm impressed with the way he wants to do business. His whole theory of competitive excellence is on point. I have the utmost trust that he will fill this class the best, most competitive players that he can find. He'll recruit on a national level & will have plenty of Ohio guys as well as great players from the south & other regions. The goal is to assemble a team that wins games & competes at the highest level. Maybe McCray just didn't fit that plan maybe he wanted to see more of him before offering. Either way, at this point I believe the Coach has a plan and is looking like he was born to coach at tOSU. Having Ohioans on the team is good and there will be plenty...but having a team that is hungry to win is the ultimate goal.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
My buddy/Buckeye insider here at work thinks that a lack of speed is the reason Urban isn't interested (or as interested) with McCray, and why he wants Courtney Love so much.
My conspiracy theory (God forbid) is that Urban is telling the Ohio kids to commit to Michigan and then commencing a mass flipping on NSD to screw Michigan over.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
^^^ haha, that would be intense if that actually did happen
I am with you Hail, I feel like that is definitely the case with this Mccray Kid. I think the other kids are solid though as of right now.
Urban kind of reminds me of Bobby Bowden. He loves the national day signings and publicity around it. If you remember, Bobby Bowden used to have kids not come out public with their decisions until signing day so his program can steal the headlines. Urban kind of reminds me of him.
I am very hesitant at taking this kids commitment and then it turning off O'daniel or Levenberry and then him screwing us at the end.
I'm not so sure. I genuinely think that Urban has other LBs above McCray at this point (Smith, Love, and other national guys). And, we're only taking 2 LBs this year so schollies are at a minimum.
Now, if we strike out on some of the higher guys on our list, I can see Meyer going back after McCray later in the cycle, but I don't think that happens.
Clicking on the rivals pages linked above shows both kids (Love and McCray) run about the same times, in the 4.6 range. Any additional comments on their athleticism would better come from Alex, but on paper they seem similar four star kids. That would lead me to believe that perhaps Love is the better athlete of the two, and that for this reason Urban is gunning for him first. From what I can recall, J. Smith runs in the 4.4 range that Urbz and company is now shooting for, having grown tired of faster players running around our slower LB's. In the past, we seemed to target more the kids who could stop the Big Ten battering ram RB's first and foremost. Look at the LB offers pre-Urban and post-Urban to highlight some of that difference. Urban is looking at the big picture, that's all.
Comparing the list of top Ohio kids with and w/o OSU offers doesn't reflect very much. We are loaded at DE. It makese sense then, that if we are going to take anybody, it would be an elite prospect. Taco may be a solid four star kid who will do great at the U of M, helping to advance along the rivalry and win them some ball games. However at tOSU, he would have been pressed for playing time and ultimately a transfer casualty. Something I hate, as in our present system that means he would have gone to a smaller school, and suffered in the educational department as well as athletically (rather than signing on with UM from the get go and merely suffering from having to wear maize and blue all the time). In the cases UM hasn't offered, its bc they had a snowball's chance in hell, or the kid doesn't fit their system. Not that the kid wasn't "worthy," which is silly to hear some of the UM fans go on about in other message boards.
Dymonte is a horrible head to head comparison, as he was failed to be offered by the last staff, got a bad taste in his mouth, and has been drinking the blue kool aid since. Only time will tell how that works out. As much of a nightmare scenario a mass flip might be for M!ch!g@n fans, and hilarious for us, there is a bit of a chance such a thing might occur. There's a lot of kids out there jumping on board and commiting to programs because they want that security of having a spot. Some of these national kids, Urban is going to get to become Buckeyes, and some not (and by national, keep in mind, some of these kids are from here in the midwest and their commiting is more than realistic). There's gonna be some he misses out on however, and in those cases, it's not a stretch to see Urbz offering a lifelong OSU fan who committed for some security and flip them without too much of a problem. Something that has been lost in all of this is its not like Urban is completely ignoring these kids without offers - he's still building that relationship, just in case. Which will just make schools more careful with how they recruit Ohio kids in the future. Not just UM but other Big Ten schools - something I thought about with Nebraska after looking at this list BSD put together. Marcus didn't have an offer yet, was told he might earn one at camp, got one from Nebraska, jumped on the offer. If Marcus has a nice year at Cardinal Mooney and becomes a solid 4 star across the board with more film to evaluate (and Urbz feels we could use the safety help), don't think for a moment he won't try that phone call. Something tells me there's gonna be a lot more butthurt this recruiting season when it's all said and done - perhaps a reason you won't see the Badgers recruit heavily in Ohio for the next few years.
HAHA - there is no way a coach would allow a kid to commit to its biggest rival so that they could ATTEMPT to steal him back. That's too risky. Funny idea though!
@Hail Like DMC said "good post"
very informative list and i like your conspiracy theory but I dont think you'll have to worry about that many kids flipping
O H I O is the Buckeye State
Honestly, IMO this commitment to whereever he decides doesn't mean anything.
If, before next Feb, Urban and the staff decide they want to offer, he'll flip without hesitation.
And that probably only happens if we miss out on other LBs we want more which I don't think happens as I think we get Jaylon Smith and Courtney Love.
Looks like his announcement may be delayed....possibly thanks to Gedeon committing to Michigan....I think OSU gets Anzalone and Love and then maybe Smith....McCray would always be a fall back option
Gedeon committed to scUM? I'm a little surprised by that...didn't Urban want him?
Gedeon is a great prospect, but if we get Anzalone and smith I'll be more than satisfied
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
What position does McCray project to? It seems from the dark side that they have a need for SAM backers like we have for offensive tackles.
Sorry meant if Gedeon commits, McCray would be out potentially....but looks like McCray moved UP his announcement, not BACK....could mean he's a Wolverine sooner