Jalin Marshall has been tweeting up Jaylon Smith pretty hard since he committed.
JalinMarshall Jalin Marshall
@
@JaeeSmiff9ENT Idk what your waiting in. Your next....
JaeeSmiff9ENT Jaylon Smith
“@JalinMarshall: @JaeeSmiff9ENT Idk whatyourwaiting inYournext....”haha we'll see whats up jus tryin to enjoy this ride, it only comes once
JaeeSmiff9ENT Jaylon Smith
@JalinMarshall yep yep are you goin to their junior day in feb.?
JalinMarshall Jalin Marshall
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@JaeeSmiff9ENT most definaltly
Let's hope Smith is one of the next dominos to fall into the Urban Meyer Train.
One of the great things about Burrows and Jalin committing this early is that they will both be very active in trying to make the 2013 class as good as possible.
That was awesome: @JaeeSmiff9ENT Idk what your waiting in. Your next.... : that legit gave me chills. haha
I'll be mildly surprised if Jalyon Smith goes elsewhere as long as Rod is on the roster
Alex - What's the deal with Rod anyhow? Is he staying on the RB depth chart or is he going to make the switch to LB?
Rod will be a RB next year....at least as of today....
Sox, last I heard Rod was back to the RB group full-time, and that was before the bowl game.
Caveat: This is pure speculation.
I kind of consider Rod Smith to be a top attrition candidate via transfer because of how loaded we are/will be at RB and the fact that he has not been able to break into the rotation. Also, I'm not sure how well he fits into Meyer's system.
2012: Hyde/Hall
2013: Hyde/Dunn/Smith/Marshall/Ball/Isaac?
2014: Dunn/Smith/Marshall/Ball/Isaac?
Lots of big talent there and I wonder if Rod might look elsewhere if Spring Practice doesn't see him rising up the depth chart. Thoughts?
He was getting playing time last year until he proved that he could not hold onto the ball. From what I remember, he was the guy everyone thought would step up lastyear to fill in during Herron's suspension. If he can correct the fumbling problem, I don't see why he can't contend for playing time.
If Dunn et al are appropriate for Meyer's system, according to the man himself wanting big backs, I don't see how Rod Smith wouldn't be given his 4.5 40 time and skillset. Don't forget, he was kind of a big deal coming in. I'm sure Meyer will get him more touches this year, and as long as he's not putting the ball on the ground, that may not be a bad thing. With the impact having a brother on campus has had for bringing in top recruits at other places this year (namely Nebraska and Oregon), I won't discount how much of a positive factor that would be, but realistically Rod would have to transfer somewhere less attractive for Jaylon if he did leave because of playing time. I don't think Jaylon would fault Meyer for not playing his brother more if we have other guys who are legit players pushing for time. There is also the thought of Rod moving to LB as well to consider - spring ball is gonna be interesting. Wow, we really are being spoiled right now - what a difference a year makes!
Rod Smith runs faster than a 4.5 fyi......and that is a fact
Good point Alex. And as someone else mentioned, how quickly we forget the hype behind this kid. He should be part of what Urban wants to do with the running game moving forward. To be completely honest, I'm not THAT sold on Hyde as a full-time starter like Boom Herron was the last few years. I see Hall getting most of the carries and then Smith and Hyde will split the year after.
Yeah, Rod hasn't been the only RB to struggle with fumbles his Freshman year. I swear I recall Beanie and even Eddie struggling with that a bit when they were Freshman.
Spot on Bass....Beanie and Eddie turned out OK
Don't know where the notion that a power runner doesn't fit in to a spread option game came from. Anyone watch Legarrette Blount and Jonathan Stewart at Oregon?
DeShawn Wynn was the leading rusher for Florida the year they beat us. He was 5'10" 230. Meyer runs a power spread, the big backs are going to fit into his offense very well.
Urban has said he wanted power backs, and he also wanted somebody on the Offensive staff that had experience with the power running game. I'm assuming that person was Coach Warinner and is why he is co-OC.
I've mentioned this in another thread, but in theory, spread offenses require speedy backs. Big powerful backs have pros and cons just like small speedy backs.
Big back: Pro: Can break tackles, yards after contact, excellent in short yardage situations. Con: limited breakaway speed, not elusive, takes too much of a beating
Speedy back: Pro: home-run threat, elusive, can turn broken plays into large gains. Con: goes down easily after contact, will not shed too many tackles, limited in short-yardage situations
In a traditional offense, like the one that OSU's ran my whole life, and yours too, a big back is preferable. The more physical the running game the more you need a big back to be able to take the hits, shed tackles, move the ball forward in short yardage situations, have the endurance to carry the ball 30+ times and control the clock. You can't run a speedy back out there in the I formation. He will average 2 yards per carry if you do. Your only hope is that he can somehow break a run if he hits the hole at the perfect time or if he somehow pulls one out of his posterior and finds a seam during a broken play.
In a spread offense, it's the reverse. The entire point of the spread is to literally SPREAD out the defense. You motion and have different zone blocking schemes to create more 1 v 1 matchups in space. In this scenario, the speedy back is preferable. With less chances of getting hit (because the defense is spread out) you want a back that will be more elusive and can break away from the linebacker/safety that is lined up on him in a 1 v 1. With a speedy back, you have the best chance for a long gain and the home run TD run. With a big back, your best case scenario is that he will beat his man in space and then go for 5-10 yards until another linebacker or DB easily catches up to him.
This isn't to say we cannot be successful in a spread with a big back. There are of course, many variations to the traditional spread offense and I'm sure whatever Urb runs here at OSU will have different wrinkles than the one he ran for Rainey and co. at UF to account for our bigger backs. He already mentioned that he may have a hybrid spread that incorporates some of the traditional fullback I-formation running plays we've used at OSU since forever. This is simply a response to the questioned posed earlier asking why people associate spread offenses with speedy backs as opposed to bruising backs. And to the person who mentioned Oregon backs, keep in mind that Chip Kelly didn't become head coach until a short time ago, and it wasn't until then that the Oregon spread as we now know it really came to be. And it's no surprise that someone like LaMichael James became a huge star in it either.
I'd like to see you explain to Urban Meyer and Chip Kelly that their use of big backs in their spread offenses wasn't succcesful or ideal. You do realize that Meyer's power spread is essentially like running the I-formation but it's been adapted to the shotgun? Meyer did use a big back at Florida every year he won a title. Wynn and Tebow in 2006, and Tebow in 2008. His teams have been more succesful when they have a big back, look at Florida's offense with an inside runner like Tebow or Wynn and Florida's offense without one. Look at Oregon's offense with Legarrette Blount and Jonathan Stewart versus Lamichael James, Kenjon Barner and De'Anthony Thomas. They've both been stellar and extremely succesful. The spread is merely designed to use the entire field. What you do with that entire field is up to the coach, whether you run zone read like Oregon, an Air Raid like Texas Tech or a power spread like Meyer's which is based on I-formation and read option plays. The "Spread doesn't favor a "scatback" or a "big back." The coach adapts their offense to the playes they have at hand, there is no "ideal" player for the spread. The beauty of the spread offense is that you can adapt your offense to utilize the players you have and create mismatches on the perimeter and between the tackles.
Good point William. And while the OHD article listed his 40 at 4.5 (and Scout at 4.6), I'm fairly certain Rod runs in the 4.4 range. If he can make some corrections, he still has a lot to offer, which was my original point. Hate to write him off just yet, although we really won't know until after spring ball. That said, if he sticks around, you can't help but think that we're a lock for Jaylon. My only concern would be Rod perhaps leaving after Jaylon commits, leaving the door open for Jaylon to be flipped elsewhere. While I'm loving these early commits, and being Ohio boys they are unlikely to end up somewhere else, kids from out of state worry me a bit.
Ha William is spot on regarding the use of a big back in Meyer's version of the spread. Couldn't say it any better than that.
Shendig
Watch the highlights of the OSU-UF game from 2007. Florida scored 5 touchdowns. 2 Passing, 3 Rushing. 2 of the rushing touchdowns were runs between the tackles. So 2/5s or 40% of Florida's touchdowns scored in the title game were between the tackles. One with Wynn and one with Tebow, his two "big backs"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eto0QX2d5oU&feature=related
I don't wanna watch that.... :(. My Tuesday is ruined from poor memories
William, Jonathan Stewart and Blount you have your facts wrong. First, Jonathan Stewart is anything but a big back. He also wasn't a traditional scat-back, but he was more towards that end of the spectrum. He ran a 4.4 forty. Sure he was 235lbs but he was extremely quick and had excellent breakaway speed. It's no surprise that when Kelly was brought in as the OC in 2007 that Stewart had a breakout year in the first year of the spread at Oregon.
As for Blount? He wasn't recruited by Kelly, he was recruited by his predecessor to be more of a traditional back. He also never shined in the spread. Granted he was suspended for most of his last season at Oregon (he punched a BSU player), but even the year before he split carrying duties with...Jeremiah Johnson, a traditional scat-back player that had a lot of success in Kelly's spread. Blount went on to be undrafted. You think of him as a success because of his success in the NFL in a traditional power-run offense that features him, not because of his time in Kelly's spread offense. Take a look at his stats during his last two seasons at Oregon (I put in the 2009 totals in there but disregard it as, again, he was suspended almost the entire year):
2008 season statistics: TOTALS 137 1002 17 7.3 2 2 0 1.0 1004 17
2009 season statistics: TOTALS 17 46 1 2.7 2 0 0 6.5 64 1
Kelly was hired as the head coach in 2008 and since then he has taken his spread offense to unimaginable heights. Shattering all types of records. And making a huge star out of LaMichael James--a traditional speedy back perfect for the spread.
I respect your opinions, but you don't really make any analysis and again, your facts are wrong. And for the last time, this doesnt mean Dunn won't have success, etc., read my post above, Urban will run a non-traditional spread, he'll figure out a way to make it work. No doubt. But we'll see this year whether guys like TJ Logan will start getting more love in the recruiting trail than more traditional backs like Ty Isaac. We'll get a sense of who Urban sees as being his prototypical back for his spread offense.
It's a false dichotomy to argue that there are "big backs" and "scat backs" only. Truly elite backs have a combination of size and speed. Brionte, Rod, and Carlos aren't slow, plodding fullback guys - they simply have bigger frames. I certainly appreciate Jordan Hall's shiftiness and determination in his running, but calling him a home run, breakaway speed threat is false. In fact, Hyde posted the fastest 40 out of the RBs during camp.
As Urban said recently, if an offensive coordinator or head coach cannot adapt his offense to his personnel, then he should be fired. As Chris Brown at smartfootball has hammered repeatedly, the spread is more of an offensive philosophy than an offensive system. Urban will make sure that the guys who deserve to touch the ball will - both in space and between the tackles.
Buckeye In Athens -- I agree with you. Absolutely. And maybe the next wave of spread offenses will feature traditionally larger backs, it's certainly doable. This was less of an indictment on this team or what Urban will do here than on what has traditionally been done, in the past. The traditional spread as we know it is now old and many coaches like Urban Meyer and Chip Kelly are reinventing themselves.
NYC - yep. I'm extremely excited to see what Urban and co. have in mind. The fact that he was able to convince Brionte that the new offense would utilize his talents makes me think that we may well watch the evolution of the power spread before our eyes. Think about that - innovation on the offensive side of the ball in Columbus?!?
235 lbs a scatback doesn't make. Herschel Walker was a track star but would you consider him closer to the "scatback" or "big back" position on your "running back spectrum?" As the stats show below his offenses were much better with an inside running presence such as a "big back." Without that inside running presence his offenses suffered severely as in the 2010 season. Meyer has admitted before that the biggest impact from Tebow's graduation was the loss of an inside running presence. Meyer uses "big backs" and they have more of an impact on his power spread than "scat backs."
Florida Stats
Without a "big back"
2010
Rushing: 2,165
Passing: 2,396
PPG: 29.8
With a "Big Back"
2006
Rushing: 2,240
Passing: 3,305
PPG: 29.7
2007:
Rushing: 2,602
Passing: 3,341
PPG: 42.4
2008
Rushing: 3,235
Passing: 2,995
PPG: 43.6
2009
Rushing:3,105
Passing:3,305
PPG: 35.9
If youza coach,witch I ain't sure SECUM is. You win with what you got. The one time he took on TSUN sure didn't turn out real good.History learn from it.
I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.
Bofuquel,
Your posts are some of the most confounding on this site. As for the UM-UF game in 2008. Tebow was injured and sat out for a portion of the game as Florida lost their inside running presence which once again shows how vital that is in Meyer's spread, and their entire passing offense. Also it's a miracle that UM won that game as Mr. H2O, Mike Hart tried to give that game away repeatedly.
Urban Meyer has made it clear that he will be useing other formations than just the spread , like power I & some proset. His offense will utillize any decent running back, fullback, tight end, wr
I think he is good at working with the talent at hand whatvever the level of talent and/or position might be. That ball will go to any player that will do something with it
O H I O is the Buckeye State
William, if you think that the power inside running game was featured in the UF offense under Meyer then we were seeing two different teams. Meyer tailored his offense around guys like Harvin, Demps, Rainey, etc. The only power-running I saw out of them was in the goal-line and that was because Tebow happened to be built like a truck.
But, again, agree to disagree. I'm not sure why you're fighting something that is as uncontroversial as "spread offenses have traditionally utilized speedy backs as opposed to bruising backs." Meyer said so himself when he recruited Brionte and told him that he never had a Brionte-like back at UF.
Moving on.
Just providing a rebuttal to your claim that a speedy back is more ideal in the "Spread" which it's not. Florida's stats over the past 5 years directly show that in the Power Spread that Meyer ran, his offenses relied on his ability to run the ball up the middle. Also a lot of Florida's home run plays were shovel option plays, or trap plays, going in between the tackles. Their rushing game was based on their ability to run the ball up the middle, not on running sweeps to the outside.