Eleven Warriors

I think trying to get into the head of a 20 year old is pretty goddamn stupid, unless you're a psychiatrist.

Arrogance and cockiness? How about we just get a meek quarterback who gets shell-shocked and isn't confident in themself instead? I bet that would work out wonderfully.

But fuck it, you guys are probably right. Let's just play Bauserman instead, because he's probably a pretty chill bro.

+1 Denny. Tat Gate has had more of a psychological impact on the fanbase than on the team. THEY'RE KIDS! Plain and simple. I don't see TP reading Aristotle and contemplating the finer points of morality. They're football players, and (God willing) they'll do what they do best on Tuesday night.

Yeah, Pryor is a bad seed, but he is our bad seed.  There are so many posts here lamenting the poor showing of the Big 10 this year.  Stop for a moment and really take a look at the disparity between the Big 10 and SEC.  Not only is it evident on the field, it is also prevalent in the fan bases and the administration of the schools and the Big 10 Conference. 

Consider this - Newton shops his services for $200,000 and there is no thorough investigation by the school or the SEC.  And what investigation there is takes over 10 months to materialize (from the moment it was first reported to the schools).  Also, there is no fan uproar about the situation.  Not only that, but all the academic scandal and theft problems at Florida were basically swept under the carpet. 

Now consider Pryor.  He has been under a microscope since he has been here.  I am in no way defending any of his actions and/or comments to the press, but ever little blip has been scrutinized by the fans.  From his circus signing day to his charity work, to Memgate (Memgate instead of Tatgate because it was really about the selling of Memorabilia).  And, the OSU administration has been right on his tail about this stuff when it was reported (not what we would all like to see - we want all this prevented before it even happens).  The NCAA relies on member schools to do 99% of the investigating.  OSU takes this seriously and investigates and reports every little blip even if it is not a violation.  The Dispatch and Plain Dealer as well as multiple blogs are Johnny on the spot in reporting any instance to their readers.  And, judging by the reaction of most fans we would really like OSU to take it a step further and stop any possible infractions before they happen and muzzle any athletes so no bone headed comments can be made. 

SEC fans are not only laughing at us because of our lack of success on the field against them, they are laughing at us because of our perceived high moral ground.  We want the best of both worlds.  Win on the field and win in the morality circus as well.  Most of the incidents reported about Big 10 athletes would not cause any concern in the SEC.  The most vivid example of this is Cam Newton.  As mentioned above the whole pay for play scheme was at best a joke for Auburn fans.  

So how does that make us look when we want to recruit some of the elite athletes considering the SEC schools?  Nick Saban is a great example of how success can be generated at an SEC school but not so easily at a Big 10 school.  Sure he has more experience now, but the real secret to success is the number of quality athletes you can accumulate on a team.  It begins with numbers (and the SEC has allowed massive oversigning), but it also includes the ones who would never consider the Big 10 or other conferences because of "big brother" watching each and every move.  Saban could not build his dynasty at Michigan State, but is having great success at Alabama.  And there are many players who prove my point about SEC schools.  Do you really think Sherif Floyd chose Florida because he was convinced God wanted Urban to coach him?  Or was it because he did not want to be under the magnifying glass at a Big 10 school?  Seantrel Henderson is another example, although he ended up opting for an ACC school after his first choice of bullet proof programs proved that they weren't so bullet proof afterall.  You could go down the list of countless potential problem recruits who opt to go elsewhere instead of Big 10 country.  Most big time football programs do not face the kind of scrutiny that we expect from our conference teams. 

We have bloggers everyday slamming the coaches, players and administrations.  Yet, they all want us to be super successful on the field.  And, heaven forbid that a player slip up ethically somewhere along the line.  He will be scrutinized beyond belief. 

I was at OSU in the 70's.  It was much the same then - Big 10 players were held to higher standards than the rest of the country.  I'm not saying that shit didn't happen, but it was not at the level much of the rest of the country was accepting.  I remember many OSU players who were shocked at what their counterparts at other schools were getting away with.  Maybe some of it was just talk, but most of it was reality. 

Today seems to be even worse.  HS athletes take a look at this stuff whether you want to believe it or not. Most often their first concern is "What are my chances of making it Pro?" and the next concern is "How much can I get away with in school?"  Not every athlete is like this, but the majority are.  Many bloggers want OSU to just bring in kids who understand the tradition of the program and want to be part of it.  If that was the first prerequisite more that 50% of the current players would not be here. 

I shudder to think that we would have to choose between winning on the field or running a class program.  Too few people understand the truly amazing job that Tressel does in doing both.  We have so many bloggers on multiple sites slamming JT and/or the program every time a player screws up.  It is a wonder that any high profile recruit opts for OSU with this "holier than thou" fan base.  And, before any of you attack me as being a blind supporter of OSU and Tressel let me state that I too see many things I don't like about the existing program.  I just don't believe it is best to air dirty laundry in public.

A more direct answer to you question - TP is not like the Greg Simpson debacle.  Greg brought down everyone and every thing around him.  True, both were/are probably embarrassments to the fans, but TP is just more indicative of prima dona HS/college athletes in general.  Greg Simpson was leading edge. 

Denny,

Confidence and arrogance are different. Anything else I'll say will just get twisted and I doubt I have the wits to spar with you.

O-H kee Pa,

They're kids! Is that what you say to the other 18-21 year olds out there that are put in life and death situations in the military daily? Hell, they are even aremed with assault rifles, but THEY'Re KIDS! If they make mistake in war, we'll forgive them, they're just kids. I get it. There isn't as much at stake as there is in war but shouldn't they be playing like it?

Wow Irricoir, can't believe you just went with the military argument. When an 18-21 signs up for the military its much different than siging a letter of intent to college, I'd say. Sorry, just not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. That's ridiculous and stupid and I can't even have that argument.

I have much respect for the military (You served, I think.) I'd like to thank you for that. I wouldn't know first hand, but I'd imagine that the honor and duty that is expected out of you when joining the military is much different than keeping a silly little trinket or ring.

We should have high expectations for these kids and our kids serving in the military or in any position where they are handed a lot of responsibility.  Excusing them for their age is ridiculous because there are kids children, who are 18 yrs old with much more responsibility and more difficult hardships than these student athletes.  I'm sure they are told that playing at Ohio State isn't an entitlement and that they will have to earn it.  I am siding with Irricoir on this BUT I will agree that the reaction has been too harsh and the punishment of 5 games is absurd.

I agree wit the Blue Monster.

Jake we have different personalities and I don't want you to respect me for my servitude. That's something I gave freely because I care about my country though I am not always in agreement with it's policy and government. I have posted several comments and your always the Devil's Advocate. If Woody thought to run his team in a militaristic fashion, then I wouldn't question that approach. I am typically respectful on this board and if you disagree just state so, but calling my comments stupid because they don't align with yours is what got you the derogatory remark sir. I appreciate you trying to sound like the bigger man in the debate but it won't win you points there either.

I can accept your belief but I see a lot of similarities.

Getting many young men together and teaching them discipline, in an attempt to get them to work together as a team. You are uniting their goals and teaching them how to work together to achieve success. You break them of the "I" concept and impart unto them the desire to win for the team. I have heard this concept from TP. "I want to win for the seniors". A good motive but comparing that comment to all of the others he has made seems like it is coming from two different people. Maybe, he doesn't grasp it completely. Maybe, he's trying but he's doing what feels natural to him. I don't know. Like Denny said, I can't get too deep because I am not mind reader/psychiatrist. I do know that to lead young men you have to unite them for a common purpose and that is the basic concept of the military. There are different ways of doing that but is easily comparable to military tactics and training. So, I fail to see where your argument holds water. 

Bad seed? He's never been arrested, he doesn't cause unrest in the locker room, and he sticks up for his teammates; for instance after Posey dropped the TD pass at Iowa, Pryor waited in the huddle didn't show any scorn towards Posey, but instead picked him up. Also so many people here hold Terrelle Pryor to such high standards and show such scorn for him, yet Troy Smith is treated like the chosen one. Last time I checked Pryor never took money from a booster or showed up fat, slow and disheartened like Smith did in the national title. If anything Pryor has done more for our program than Smith. He's never let us get beat down by a bunch of SEC punks and very well may be the reason why we won't this year. So step back and realize that he is 30-4 as a starter, something that everyone's little golden child Troy Smith never did. I can guarantee that Pryor would never let a game like the Florida game take place while he is in Scarlet and Gray.

Alright, Pryor has been suspended for more than Smith, yet I find the fact that any of Pryor's acts are punishable a load of crap, I had no idea capitalism was now illegal. As for Pryor's sense of entitlement, we are the very one's to blame for that, were we not the fanbase that hyped his arrival so much? Did the media not only further fuel such hyping. When you have thousands of people telling you that you're the greatest, what are you suppose to think? As for his maturity he is 20. I have yet to see what he has responded so poorly to, what the rants on the sideline? I'd rather see hims get all pissed on the sideline when a play doesn't go the way it should, than calmly sit down and act as if it wasn't a big deal. At least he has a fire in him and he hates to lose. Also with his responses to Herbstreit I support them, Herbstreit has no spine and is in bed with ESPN and the SEC. He is the fake buckeye.

Jake...I apologize, I forgot about the first game of the next season.

But my mathematical inequality was still true though lol.

Unfortunately, I have a bad feeling that this all isn't over with Pryor, that just more and more stuff is going to leak out over time about him getting improper benefits, like this car deal. I mean, how can he use the excuse he sold his stuff to help his family who was in need...if he was later able to buy a dodge charger. His family is short on money and then he gets a new car...questionable.

...i didnt do 2 deployments to iraq so that i can come to this damn board and get "brownie" points and sympathy from type G...

what irr said

Military comparisons are bound to come up.  Heck, Woody even used to do this.  But, the current state of college football bears only a little similarity with life in the military.  IRR is right on in comparing discipline necessary to conduct oneself in both arenas, however the reality is that football is really more comparable to the life of mercenaries while our military is still a job of duty and choice.

Many college football players have little understanding of the traditions and legacies at the schools they attend.  They, instead, see their time spent in college as a stepping stone to riches - whether it be through turning pro or cashing in on a valuable education.  Most in the military see it as a career move that honors their country, and they do understand the tradition and honor that goes along with the job.  Mercenaries are quickly identified in the military and generally do not last, however they are everywhere on the college landscape and seem to thrive in this environment.  The teaching of self discipline and honor is much easier to teach in the military environment where a failure to learn such is a guarantee of failure (either by death in the heat of battle or by discharge from the service).  Many individuals thrive in sports with a narcissistic attitude, and the yahoos at ESPN and the like only accentuate and inspire them.  Not every athlete is like that, if fact many probably really fit the military mold and comparisons offered by IRR.  Yet, there are a good number who really fall into that mercenary role, and they are accepted as part of the landscape. 

One can easily argue both sides of this issue, but the debates will do little to eliminate the prima-donnas as it seems that the public in general demands that they be on the field. 

I think the hate for Pryor is pretty ridiculous really.  It's mostly over him talking not flashing guns, loving chronic, or choking his girlfriend.  Most places they wouldn't give a damn, but Ohio is not most places.  Tatgate sucks, and I'm not crazy about the guys making a poor decision, but let's all get off our high horse here.  He wins ball games.  He keeps plays alive because he's such a great athlete.  Last night would've been UGLY with Bauserman under center. 

There are plenty of irresponsible kids in the military, and plenty who pop off at the mouth and they keep their jobs, and have people thank them for their service, despite having zero knowledge how well or not they do their job.  So yeah, I guess you can compare the two, but its really apples and oranges. 

10's of 1000's of people don't follow the Army's recruits from the time they are 16 until they graduate.  The media doesn't scrutinize every word out of the mouth of a soldier.  Recruiters don't spend a ton of money to take military recruits out to dinner, and show them a good time to convince them to join up.  It's a whole different world.

We want to criticize the kids for thinking somehow they are special or that they are a notch above everyone else, but it's totally hypocritical.  We put them on that plane by following them on Twitter, asking for their autographs, buying every style of Jersey they come out with, stalking them since they were sophomores in high school.  So yeah, he is pretty arrogant, but I have to say I probably would be too if I were in his position. 

Type G, I didn't serve 7,341 hours in Call of Duty to hear you denigrate military service like that.  A simple thank you would have sufficed.

Not.

Cool.

Respectfully,

N00B_KILLER2341

I don't think you hate the military, I think you hate the fact that all the chicks dig my Perks setup and want to kiss me on the mouth because I am capable of setting the bomb in Demolition in like the first 30 seconds of the Demolition match.  All you got to do is set your perks up right and run real fast and then you press A to set the bomb; it's not rocket science, it's easy peezy. 

But you are obvi a n00b who has never wasted an entire weekend of your life playing a video game while drinking copious amounts of beer until you can't feel feelings anymore.  And that's just really sad.