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ASU EDWARD SARAFIN PUBLICLY COMES OUT

BAR43's picture
August 14, 2014 at 10:48am
86 Comments

Arizona State offensive lineman Edward "Chip" Sarafin told Compete Magazine that he is gay, becoming the first active Division I college football player to come out publicly.

 

Didn't feel like attaching link to espin article. Anyways, I have absolutely nothing against gay people, personally I love 'em. Typically great people, entertaining, and glad they are getting same rights as everyone else.

The issue I have is I don't care if you are gay, straight, bi, etc.... what the hell does it have to do with sports? Why is it important? I had the same issue with Sam from Missouri.

You don't hear other players going around proclaiming to be straight, so why does anyone need to know when you're gay. I understand the coming out is a big thing and something that should be done in a personal matter. But not sure I understand the need to broadcast it through a magazine or media outlets.

Don't mean to rant and have nothing against this kid or any other coming out. But I don't feel that the general public needs to know or really cares. Furthermore, the accolades Sam got for his "courage" is borderline ridiculous. Save that for real courage, not someone bringing a spot light on themselves.

Oyster's picture

I'm Catholic, just wanted to tell everyone.

R.I.P. Otsego

+33 HS
Northbrook's picture

You are a brave Oyster.

+5 HS
One Bad Buckeye's picture

Oyster, you supposed to book a conference room and summon major media outlets BEFORE "coming out" with big news like this.  

"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."

+2 HS
buckeyedude's picture

I'm shocked you didn't get one DV for coming out, Oyster. Amazing.

 

 

+3 HS
OSUmuFAN's picture

That's some Chris Duhon level courage

Buckeye Rocket Sci's picture

Although I agree with you on some points, there is some reason to them coming out.

First, let me see I am in the same boat in that the only way to be close to equality is for race/sexual orientation/whatever to be so insignificant that there is no reason to differentiate at any point in time (surveys, tests, politics, "coming out," etc.)

That said, I believe the stance here is that these young men recognize that, despite recent sucesses on the legal front, there are still a very large number of homosexual children out there that feel abnormal and distant from society. They feel like they can't be a normal part of human society based on the fact that they may like a different gender than is "usual." As such, these young men can serve as examples to prove them wrong, to show them that they can do whatever they want despite what others may say.

You can see this same sentiment when a woman does something for the first time (e.g., complete a certain course on the show American Ninja Warrior for the first time, be elected the first woman president, etc.), or when an African American does the same thing (Obama, Barack), or just when a poor kid becomes a millionaire. Although I do not like all of the media and attention they receive after the fact because of it, the simple act of showing to kids/others that just because you're different doesn't mean you can't do things is in and of itself quite powerful and necessary for today's society.

Sorry for the long post!

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence" - Calvin Coolidge

+12 HS
BAR43's picture

Although I see a validity to some degree in all these points and why it is important to come out, the way it is approached and praised is a bit much to me. the Sam situation was actually a bit more aggravating than this one, as I felt Sam's outing was more of a publicity stunt than anything. This kid at ASU is not as big, but still reinforces the feeling that being gay or not, really isn't important and the more light you shed the more it is seen as "abnormal" or being different IMO. Its only a big deal, if you act like its a big deal. I can see both sides, just wanted to see other perspectives.

+2 HS
Buckeye Rocket Sci's picture

I agree. As I mentioned, the publicity of this does get carried away, IMO, but that doesn't take away from the significance of such announcements initially. The bologna that follows it oftentimes just annoys me to no end, but that's the "news" and ESPN for ya! Good discussion!

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence" - Calvin Coolidge

+3 HS
RK84's picture

Its not so much that its important, bt it breaks away from what is percieved as a social norm. I think as more players come out, it will fade away, much like other barriers have been broken down.

+1 HS
brandonbauer87's picture

This conversation went very poorly last time. 

Anytime I hear of someone coming out in a generally masculine setting, I think of I Now Pronounce You Chuck And Larry. Answering the phone with "balls and wieners" still cracks me up. 

+7 HS
OH1O State's picture

I would like to publicly announce that I prefer Vegetable Lasagna over Chicken Lasagna. 

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

+11 HS
Phillips.449's picture
+14 HS
OSU_1992_UFM's picture

Stop it with these shenanigans

UFM_Renewal

-1 HS
Deadly Nuts's picture

Today is a very special day. A man had the courage to come out to the public and tell them that he is different and that he doesn't care what they think. That mans name is Deadly Nuts and I SIT DOWN WHEN I PEE!

LEBRON

+7 HS
Oyster's picture

I didn't know you were married?

R.I.P. Otsego

+11 HS
buckeyedude's picture

I thought I was the only one that did that, Deadly? Nice. Maybe we could form a club or something?

 

 

mh277907's picture

Furthermore, the accolades Sam got for his "courage" is borderline ridiculous. Save that for real courage, not someone bringing a spot light on themselves.

You are greatly mistaken if you think a male college football player coming out to a group of male college football players isn't courageous. One day there won't be a need for people to make these types of announcements. It will be because these guys weren't afraid to.

Annnnd that's all I have to say on the subject.

buckeyebobcat

+19 HS
BAR43's picture

I understand there is courage needed to go against the norm. However the level of recognition was more my issue. Save those accolades for military, people overcoming debilitation injuries or illnesses, etc. I don't fee like sexual preference needs to be a public matter, regardless of being normal or abnormal.

+5 HS
mh277907's picture

Save those accolades for military, people overcoming debilitation injuries or illnesses, etc. Sexual preferences does not need to be a public matter.

Giving praise to the troops and giving praise to someone for having the courage to come out are not mutually exclusive events.

buckeyebobcat

+14 HS
BAR43's picture

Well put, I guess it would come more down to people who don't recognize one or the other. To me there are many more cases of courage that could be covered and I am looking at it from a ranking stand point, or which one is more important... I admit that is not really the right way to view it, but media coverage forces me to want to think "why this and not that?"

+4 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

Also, ESPN praises troops and people overcoming disabilities/injuries all the time. It's not like their treatment of Sam is taking anything away from those people.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

-2 HS
robobuck's picture

Name the last time the military guy was top of the list on sportscenter two weeks straight...no pun intended

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.  1 Corinthians 9:24

+4 HS
NW Buckeye's picture

One only needs to take notice of the reactions of people like Tony Dungy to understand the need for some gay athletes to 'come out'.  If society in general was as accepting of gays as you appear to be ("I have absolutely nothing against gay people, personally I love 'em. Typically great people, entertaining, and glad they are getting same rights as everyone else.") there would indeed be no need to 'come out' as a homosexual.  However, there are still deep seeded feelings among much of the population that stereotype gays in quite a negative light.  It is only through the realization that gays are contributing members of our society that the general population learns to accept them.  

And, as for the 'courage' necessary to announce such for an athlete, particularly in a macho sport, well, I think the comments of people like Tony Dungy show that it takes a certain amount of courage to step out and admit that you are gay.  It is different than the courage it takes to defend your country while serving in the military, but it is courage none the less. 

+5 HS
jrunyan's picture

That vile, wretched Tony Dungy. How dare he say he wouldn't have drafted a 7th round draft pick! What a horrible person!

+13 HS
BAR43's picture

I believe you are taking tony Dungys words out on context... something many media people have done. Dungy never said he wouldn't draft Sam because he was gay. He said he didn't want to deal with all the issues around it. Knowing Dungy is one of the most upstanding people in the NFL I took his words to be in reference to not wanting to draft a guy who wants the spotlight on himself, not to mention that Sam agreed to an entire TV series on the O network surrounding him and his journey through the season. As a coach or a teammate I would not want that distraction either. Once again, nothing to do with him being gay at all.

+7 HS
NW Buckeye's picture

The only reason I mentioned Tony was because he did make remarks about the announcement.  In a society that is accepting of gays in all facets of life, he would not have to make remarks about it because it would be a non issue (no need for televised announcements, TV shows, etc).  The point is that society is what turns it into an 'issue'.  So, yeah, until more gays come out in situations like this it is going to be difficult for the few who do.  And, it is going to take a few people like Sam and Safarin to make a difference in society in general. 

-5 HS
BAR43's picture

I personally disagree with both parts. Dungy said what he did because of how Sam addressed his coming out, not because he came out. Secondly, both these cases (more so Sam's) don't need to be the norm to make coming out more accepted. When someone comes out and the media swarms them about it and that person says "yea I'm gay and play **insert sport**, so what?!", that is when society will view it differently in my mind.

+2 HS
NW Buckeye's picture

So, you are making the same point that I am.  When an athlete can come out and say "yea I'm gay and play **insert sport**, so what?!", that is when society will view it differently in my mind.  My point exactly.  Your concept of how Sam came out probably differs a little than mine, but when your statement holds true, there will be no avenue for someone like Sam or the media to make a big deal out of it. 

And, for what it is worth, Dungy stated he would not take someone like Sam because of the spectacle.  Yet, his second pick in the 2000 draft for Tampa Bay was Nate Webster, a LB from Miami who was cited for 3 counts of battery in October of 1999 (charges were later dropped because of a financial settlement with the victim) .  That is just one example of the "spectacles" that Dungy accepted into the club house, yet the spectacle of a gay player coming out was just too much for him.  Imagine that. 

-2 HS
jrunyan's picture

Yet Nate Webster was never asked to star in a reality TV show, while Michael Sam was (and he initially accepted). A 7th round pick starring in a reality show about being a gay football player is clearly a distraction and a spectacle. Why invite such an unnecessary media circus for a 7th round pick when your coaching career solely depends on winning games?

Disagree with him all you want, but to refer to him as "people like Tony Dungy" is much overblown.

Ironically the uproar over Tony Dungy's comments actually validated them. 

+5 HS
elitesmithie's picture

The problem is the media(typically left leaning), asks questions over and over again to people who are conservative or Christian and then get shocked when they give an answer they knew they believed. Tony Dungy didn't go out of his way to talk negatively about Sam; a reporter asked him repeatedly to answer a question he knew would be "contreversial" and then the media, which creates distractions, blames others for said distraction. 

I think there are ways to do this in a way that proves a point. If its not a big deal, and you are "just one of the guys"; show up to a team gathering with your BF and act like you always do. Doing a press conference and then claiming its not a big deal doesn't mesh. Just show up with your BF and people will put 2 and 2 together. Mission accomplished. And then when reporters bug you(and they will..again typically left leaning) you can say , "whats the big deal? I live my life like everyone else on my team"

+2 HS
awlinBrutus's picture

I think people confuse personal opinions and tolerance. The gay community has gained a lot of acceptance  among the majority of americans the last 20 years. I think Dungy personally thinks homosexuality is wrong and immoral as many Christians do. Yet I do not think he would deny a gay person equal rights or discriminate against them because of their sexuality. You can't legislate personal opinions and thought. In 20 years young people may be aghast at the thought that just 20 years earlier sexual discrimination was alive and well in modern American society. There was a time when women could not vote, remember that,lol. Sounds archaic right?

MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS

+4 HS
Hovenaut's picture

There were a couple of Michael Sam threads here that were complete horror shows.

Just a friendly reminder to share the news, and discuss in a respectful and courteous manner.
 

"Success...it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

+6 HS
BAR43's picture

Absolutely. My intent is not to smear either individual or be negative, but state my opinion and get perspectives from others. There is never a need for something to turn nasty or into a horror show.

+2 HS
Hovenaut's picture

No worries Bar...appreciate the post (I'm finding that I keep up on current events more on 11W than anywhere else - which would say I'm here more than anywhere else), just want ensure said opinions and perspectives stay constructive.

"Success...it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

hodge's picture

As long as a sizable portion of the country's population discriminate against homosexuals, coming out in a publicy-visible position is a big deal -- especially when doing so will make you a very visible minority.  I'm looking forward to the day when this isn't news, but it's going to take a while and we're going to hear about a lot more gay athletes before that happens.

It's okay if you don't agree with his lifestyle, but discrimination is a pretty nasty thing.

+9 HS
Butch_Driveshaft's picture

The announcement or 'coming out' doesn't bother me, nor does the idea that someone is homo or heterosexual. What bothers me is the constant bombardment that you see afterward, as if we are still living in 1950's America and no one has ever heard of homosexuality. When Michael Sam came out, there was a solid week where that was all every sports website, station, and show was talking about. It almost made it look like some sort of a freak show, when I think most people shrugged their shoulders and said 'meh, good for him.'

+9 HS
Nick_Satan's picture

And....? who cares.

I am German so english is not my first language. Even though grammar Nazi's like to point out my mistakes all the time. It makes them feel better about them self.

+7 HS
Butch_Driveshaft's picture

Yes, exactly. This is 2014

+1 HS
Riggins's picture

Right? It's not like we have rampant anti-gay legislation percolating throughout many statehouses across the country. Nobody cares if you're gay or not. You can't still be fired for being gay in many states. Or denied access to partners in the emergency room. Why is this a big deal?

Oh, wait.

+5 HS
Butch_Driveshaft's picture

Maybe it's just the way I was raised, but hearing a person you know, whether personally or not, is gay just doesn't set the world on fire for me. People are who they are. 60 years ago hearing someone come out might have been a big deal to me if I was alive and all old-timey, but not in 2014. I'd like to think as a society we've been able to get to the point where this sort of thing isn't big news, but apparently we have not, given the amount of coverage over stories like this (granted, this particular story hasn't seen NEARLY the coverage Michael Sam got.)

+2 HS
mh277907's picture

YOUR FORUM TITLE IS COMING OUT, TOO!

buckeyebobcat

+1 HS
Oyster's picture

Annnnd that's all I have to say on the subject.

You said you were done?

R.I.P. Otsego

+4 HS
mh277907's picture

I lied. Go to confession together?

buckeyebobcat

+3 HS
Wilkins78's picture

Was Jackie Robinson breaking the race barrier important to sports?  The obvious difference is that everyone could see that Jackie was black, so maybe it seems like a much bigger deal, because it was known and they couldn't ignore it.  People don't go around proclaiming to be straight because nearly everyone assumes heterosexuality, unless they are told or shown otherwise.  Stereotypes aside, there's no visual indicator that forces people to confront any issues they have with this difference like there would be with someone who has a different color skin.  That is why publicly coming out is important for sports and society as a whole.  Now it can likely be debated in a case like Michael Sam what is good for social change and what is marketing/attention-grabbing/commercialization/etc, but I don't think it makes it any less courageous. 

+2 HS
BuckeyePoetLaureate's picture

That's a good point and a good parallel. 

In 1947, there were unpleasant people who felt that African-Americans didn't believe in baseball.  You could read their editorials in newspapers and hear their awful opinions in the neighborhood bar.

Today, there are unpleasant people who believe that homosexuals shouldn't play football or have other rights that are otherwise afforded to them by the status of being human.  You can read such editorials in newspapers and on countless web sites.

It was a big deal when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier and endured a lot of terrible hardship.  Firsts are always going to grab more attention because they represent a change in our culture.  Can you name the second African-American ballplayer (Larry Doby)?  Can you name the last man to have walked on the moon?  (Gene Cernan)

In time, folks will no longer even hear about players who are gay, just as we Buckeye fans don't even think about race when we look at our recruits, etc.

Proud alumnus of the Ohio State Creative Writing MFA Program.  Creator of the writing craft site Great Writers Steal.

Scott's picture

Hiding who you are sucks; it sucks even more that announcing who you are can lead to being shunned, disowned by family, harassed, and emotionally and physically assaulted.

As long as this is a reality, it will be courageous to come out no matter who you are and newsworthy if you are a "first" in your respective field.

Class of 2008

+8 HS
OSU2002Grad's picture

"Who cares?" "So what?" "Keep it to yourself" "You don't see other athletes coming out as straight!" "I'm announcing that I'm (identifying characteristic that has faced very little discrimination)"

... say the people who start these threads and comment on them. Code man. Code.

+5 HS
ponder10's picture

What does Ray Rice punching out his fiance have to do with sports?

Just because you have a personal life as an athlete doesnt mean that it always remains personal. The reason this is an issue is because society says it a big issue, not because of anything to do with Sarafin. Obviously its a big issue because you took the time to write 5 paragraphs on the subject.

Straight people dont have to announce it because they're expected to be straight. Gay people either have to live in the shadows OR admit that they're gay and listen to the whispers about them. He came out to his teammates some time ago so you can only imagine there are whispers around campus that would eventually go to the local media and then to the national media. Rather than being "outed" by some news organization he is able to control his story and his moment.

I'll give you a different example... what if you had a child, your first child, but rather than you being able to announce that to your family and friends someone stole that opportunity from you and told them before you could? You no longer control the story and no longer have the opportunity to own the emotions of that event.

Finally, "courage" is relative. There is battlefield courage, which cannot be denied but their is also societal-stigmatic courage. For example, Robin Williams hanged himself because he was going through severe depression. There are people that commit suicide daily as a result... admitting you have a mental health issue takes "courage". Admitting that you are gay when many aspects of society tell you that it's wrong takes "courage". Military/Police/Fire cannot monopolize the word "courage".

“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum

+5 HS
BAR43's picture

valid point... I noted above that I was being simple minded in my approach that one act is only courageous if it supersedes another, rather than looking at the fact that many situation require courage. I agree that it takes courage to come out, so I misspoke in the original post. The issue I had or tried to portray, whether right or wrong, was the level of coverage that is received by coming out. furthermore, where to we draw the line of when someone is going against the grain and overcoming an obstacle? For instance, does it take courage for someone to proclaim an "abnormal" sexual fantasy or preference? as mentioned I just like to get other perspectives on the matter.

+1 HS
Oyster's picture

I prefer high heels with a strap around the ankle.  And I'm Catholic.

R.I.P. Otsego

+2 HS
GoBucks713's picture
I'm a Lumberjack too!
 
I'm a lumberjack too
 

-The Aristocrats!

+3 HS
Oyster's picture

I think you were a little too anxious to tell everyone that.

R.I.P. Otsego

+1 HS
GoBucks713's picture

Says the guy throwing around his Catholicism for everyone to enjoy

-The Aristocrats!

+1 HS
ponder10's picture

This is a hot button issue with you, I get that... but the level of coverage Sarafin has received is minimal. Sam did get a lot of coverage for about a week or so and it died down. There was some coverage after his first preseason game but that is to be expected.

I would argue, and would probably be backed up by the data, that Johnny Manzeil has received somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-times the amount of coverage that Sam has received. Every day when I turn on ESPN there are at least 2-3 stories about Manzeil.

So, on a "level-of-coverage" scale being a partying flashy douche gets you WAY more coverage than being gay.

“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum

+3 HS
BAR43's picture

Not really a hot issue for me at all and I agree Sarafin is much smaller. My opinions were more so with Sam's situation, and this just helped it resurface. Valid point on the Manzeil and the douche thing, touché! I just enjoy a discussion on a topic where people will have many different views. That's the purpose of a forum, to discuss.

robobuck's picture

Yes and he's also good at football whereas Sam isn't, relatively speaking. If manziel was as bad as Sam you wouldn't know his name. That's somewhat telling.

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.  1 Corinthians 9:24

Fatpants's picture

One player's orientation is not news. The news is that things have changed to the point where it's no longer unheard of for someone to come out.

+1 HS
awlinBrutus's picture

bingo! uv

MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS

sivaDavis's picture

I think even bigger news will be when a professional athlete comes out as gay and it's NOT news. Just my opinion. It's 2014. Good for Edward and Michael Sam. Beat Navy. Naaaaavy.

"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes

+9 HS
crusher's picture

Who cares? Why announce your sexual preference to the rest of the team anyway? It's nobody's business and it has nothing to do with playing football. Is it for a pat on the back and to have people tell them how brave they are? I don't get. It's not a big deal anymore. I can't wait until the media tires of these stories and covers some actual news.

A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT US IN THE TITLE?!?!?!

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

VintonCountyBuck's picture

I celebrated National Left-Hander's Day yesterday with everyone. By smoking a left handed cigarette...

I'm not even left-handed.

“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.” 

+3 HS
Northbrook's picture

That's great but can he play football?

+3 HS
Hogan1's picture

Gays in football is so last year. 

+1 HS
YTOWNBUCKI's picture

I have no problem with the kid coming out.  I have a problem with the media making a big deal out of it.  Let the kid play ball and move on with his life.

+1 HS
e135800's picture

Big Deal,  Saying that you are gay is gay anymore

Eph97's picture

I remember when Doug Williams was the qb for the 'Skins in the Superbowl. It was a big deal because he was the firs black qb to start a Superbowl. Now, no one cares if a qb is black. Gays still face hostility and are ostracized in football and basketball, so if this guy thinks by coming out he can serve as an inspiration for gay teens, than what is the harm in that. 

+3 HS
Citrus's picture

There is a perception that gay is less "manly" and "girlie." Thus, athletes stating they are gay destroys some of those stereotypes. It also shows that football is a more accepting environment might have been previously thought. 

+2 HS
Nappy's picture

Fifty-four comments in and no issues.  Good job, Dubsters.

As to the topic of conversation.  Good for him.  Now let's discuss his 40 time. 

Fan of bacon since 1981

+5 HS
BAR43's picture

Do you ever want to discuss a linemen's 40 time?!?! I think the coming out topic may be more interesting still..

+1 HS
Nappy's picture

Looks like I forgot to use the sarcasm font.

Fan of bacon since 1981

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

It isn't a big deal to me, because I just don't care if someone is gay or not.  As long as players can get it done on the field, in the classroom, and are upstanding citizens, then I wouldn't care if the entire team was gay.  However, I can see where it can be a big deal for someone to come out, especially if you think (some of) your family or your friends (or teammates in his case) may not accept you for it.  I see where coming out even today is still courageous to a degree, but I agree that the media blitz about it gets to be too much.  If true equality is achieved, there won't be a media blitz because nobody will care.

Class of 2010.

+1 HS
Grayskullsession's picture

I'm Polish. I'm considered brave now too right?

"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."

+3 HS
BAR43's picture

I would say so, because I sure as hell wouldn't admit that....

+2 HS
Jeeves's picture

Upvote for a fellow Pole!

awlinBrutus's picture

now I'm hungry  for stuffed cabbage and kielbasa. throw in some kwasnica and call it a day.

MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS

+1 HS
Buckeye Chuck's picture

I know one reason Sam made his big announcement is that he knew NFL teams were asking around about the rumors. Coming out is one way to end the whisper campaign -- you just end the mystery right there.

These will likely be a one-day story everywhere but Tempe, in part because it's becoming more routine. Remember all the concern about how Michael Sam was going to create a circus for the Rams? As could have been predicted, and I think I did predict it, it was a story when he showed up for camp, and a smaller story when he played his first preseason game. It will be a significant story when he makes the team (or if he doesn't). But aside from those milestones, it's basically just another Rams camp. The circus has not materialized. 

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

+2 HS
buckskin's picture

A big problem with this issue as it relates to sports is railroading. I have heard many talk show hosts speak bad about Tony Dungy for his views. His opinions for not wanting him on the team had two main points. First, he knew it would be a major distraction for the team with the media feeding frenzy. Second, he didn't think that Sam was necessarily good enough to play for an NFL team. These are legit reasons to not draft any player. Now SOME in the media are writing the story "Dungy wouldn't draft Sam because he is gay." Not true. Hopefully it's not a story if Sam gets cut from a team.

Sexual orientation has no bearing on the skill level of any player. I personally don't care if a player is gay or straight, if I'm a coach the only thing I want to know is are you good enough to help my team win football games. Period. My freshman year in college we had a senior all American who was gay but it was a complete non issue. First of all, he was good enough to make the team. Second, we were a better team with him on the field.

+1 HS
Buck Commander's picture

I'd prefer a Clam over a pickle any day!

Every time I set my DVR to record Biggest Loser......It always records Wolverine Football Games!

-1 HS
FROMTHE18's picture

still amazed by the people who think dudes coming out as gay is newsworthy. It doesn't make a difference if the dude is a football player or an astronaut. Nothing to see here. 

buckeyedude's picture

I really don't want to debate this shit, again. Next topic.

 

 

+2 HS
USMC11917's picture

This is as close to political conversation as I can tell. Simply put if we all are equals then this isn't worth mentioning. I could care less if he is homosexual and that doesn't mean that I am not entitled to comment. My reason for commenting is in regard to the OP of this thread and their intent to push an agenda. It is nobodies buisiness whether anyone is straight or gay. The fact that it keeps getting thrown in somebodies face or that those of us that don't agree with the choice or lifestyle of the individual, yet still accept the person making it is what bothers me. If you have a desenting opinion, you get ostrisized by the pro-gay public. If your gay, great for you! It isn't some type of achievement that needs to be celebrated. If thats what you are into then I am sure that there are plenty of websites that allow that type of conversation to take place. I would rather not see it here. Just my personal opinion.

I have two friends that live that lifestyle. They know I don't agree with the physical aspects of their life so they don't mention it around me or my family. I don't put them in the position where they have to discuss it either. We are very casual about it and great friends that respect each other.

+1 HS
Hogan1's picture

 Breaking News: Ed Hochuli  first gay NFL referee.

-2 HS