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Famous Winston wasn't charged, but the 2 other guys in the room are now getting it

johnblairgobucks's picture
April 3, 2014 at 3:24pm
58 Comments

http://deadspin.com/fsu-investigates-jameis-winston-charges-2-teammates-...

according to deadspin, the 2 other guys in the room, the night Winston had his event that may or may not have been rape, are now being charged by Florida State......

This article isn't so suprising, just makes me shake my head.  One of the guys is currently a player, has yet to be publicly disciplined by the team.

Go Noles!

 

Deadly Nuts's picture

So the superstar is going to get off free while the two other guys are getting charged... You gotta love Florida's legal system.

LEBRON

+9 HS
Squirrel Master's picture

so Casher is getting in trouble for trying to get into a "devils threeway" and supposedly took video (and he just happened to discard a cell phone after the fact. uh huh) of a supposedly consensual act. I can see how he is getting in trouble but how did this go unheard of till now and the girl said Winston raped her but didn't call out these two for all of this.

and what did Darby do that was so awful if it wasn't rape? all he did was acknowledge that he knew they were having sex.

again, this is all very odd if he didn't actually rape her. So it begs the question...

 

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+3 HS
johnblairgobucks's picture

why weren't they concerned enough about a student's rape allegation, that the school didn't do their investigation and come to a conclusion, month's ago is a complete bullshit mystery.  The Tallahassee PD knew of this 16 months ago....... so did Jimbo Fisher and the football program, because Winston was appointed with the football program's attorney, then.  The rape allegation resurfaced 5 month's ago, the university is just now getting around to dealing with this?

Send your daughter to FSU, just tell her to avoid close contact with any football players, because the legal system isn't the same, when it comes to them.

Literally the football program was and is more important than what happened in this case.

+2 HS
Squirrel Master's picture

and not to get anything started but I find it funny that Malik McDowells mother was more comfortable with him going to FSU than MSU. I don't want to talk about Malik but FSU would have been a much more concerning choice IMO.

I know the FSU campus. We all know FSU's history with their football program. I am stunned more parents aren't put off by this stuff with that school.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+4 HS
Colerain 2004 G.O.A.T.'s picture

If this were any other situation I would say they are using these charges to get the lesser known two too sign a statement against the celebrity,but we are talking about FSU and their heisman,National championship winning QB and the rape of a co-ed.

I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne

tennbuckeye19's picture

This story continues to be completely messed up...

+6 HS
Seattle Linga's picture

Kinda makes you think huh???

FROMTHE18's picture

IMO, the Winston case was horrifically mishandled and I believe showed an incredible bias/favoritism towards FSU's star QB. Shameful to the judicial system. 

+3 HS
M Man's picture

With all due respect -- I mean that seriously; with all due respect to all of you -- you are all missing the gist of this story.  Just like the boyz on the MGoBoard are missing this story.

Everybody wants to turn this into a competitive/rivalry story.  FSU has no discipline.  The Criminoles will do anything to win.  They are such football-obsessed cheaters in Florida.  The Tallahassee police work for the athletic department.  It was pressure from the girl's dad that got an investigation.  It was pressure from football to kill the police investigation.  Blah-di-blah-blah.  The MoGoBoyz are every bit as bad as anybody else.

That's not it at all.  No sir; this story is about all of the new overweening federal pressure exerted by the Department of Education and the Department of Justice under the Obama Administration.  And now it is going to get much, much worse as the Executive Branch, always exquisitely sensitive to media pressure (which is now going to roar up to historic levels) wants to be seen to be doing something about a supposed epidemic of sexual assaults on campuses.

I've written about it here before, as most of you know, in the context of Brendan Gibbons.  My serious, non-trashtalk warning is that it won't be too long before there is a case in which an OSU athlete is exonerated and/or not charged in a sexual assault case, and that result will be followed up with a Title IX claim.  That's not a rivalry thing; it's not trash talk; it's a prediction that I have always remarked will be viewed with precisely as much suspicion on my part as my suspicion over the administrative charges that Gibbons faced.

These cases belong in courts of law, not student-activity-building conference rooms.

+5 HS
johnblairgobucks's picture

 

Winston's case and Gibbon's case are different....... To your point, yes, OSU will at some point face a situation within it's program, we have in the past, with MoC, tats for trinkets, Pee and Flee, DUI's, even Troy Smith's disputed parking lot fight..... I hope OSU goes as far as necessary to find the truth.   To say a school's investigation is in some way over bearing, unecessary or out of bounds is crazy to me.  I wonder how the parents of the girl that committed suicide at Notre Dame over an assult accusation feel about the lengths schools should go to to protect their students.  He said, she said and it's not logical to think that the he's are always right and honest.

 

+1 HS
M Man's picture

I want to be really clear about this.  I am NOT one of those rival fans who claims that the opposition are cheaters.  I don't think that.  If anybody tried to argue that Michigan is somehow superior to OSU in the criminal/discipline area I'd argue against them.  I liked Coach Tressel; I hated what happened to him.  I respect Coach Meyer.  I think he is showing himself to have a superior reputation for discipline at Ohio State.

I didn't defend Gibbons because I singularly knew better than anyone else what happened on that November night in 2009 (two-thousand and NINE!).  I don't know what happened.  What I know is that the prosecutor declined to charge Gibbons.  And I know that some serious federal pressure was applied to the University of Michigan to do something about the case, long after the prosecutors had ended their activity on the case.  I know that Michigan's Athletic Department had nothing to do with the police investigation or the subsequent University investigation.  There was never a question of any delay or coverup in the Gibbons case; the only question was why, so long after the fact, was a federally-motivated proceeding taken up?

I'm not predicting an "OSU-athlete case" in the future because your athletic department has any failings.  I'm predicting it because I predict that just about any big high-profile program is going to face this.

+5 HS
johnblairgobucks's picture

the decline by prosecuters to file charges and then have to take a case to court and prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt by no means proves innocence.  Killers have roamed the streets for years, even as leading suspects, because investigators have lacked the evidence to nail the case closed.  I don't know.  The 4 people in Winston's room know..... well three for sure do, because according to reports the girl was drunk..... so I don't know for sure.  However the timeline, reports and investigations of the FSU situation don't add up, to me.  IMO, Winston was given a celebrity pass through the deal, because of his football status.

+3 HS
villagebuckeye's picture

Just how is it you "know" there was serious federal pressure and "know" the athletic dept had nothing to do with the police or university investigations?  Source please.

 

+2 HS
M Man's picture

Federal pressure.

As for the Michigan Athletic Department having "no influence" of any kind in the police or university investigations (the police investigation led to no charges; the university investigation led to Gibbons' expulsion); I don't know exactly how to prove a negative for you.  Perhaps you could detail who, how and when anyone in Michigan athletics interfered in any way in any investigation.  Don't tell me, "Taylor Lewan," whose comment to friends (and never to the purported victim) were investigated by the university as well.

+4 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Federal pressure.

The DOE deciding to investigate several months after the fact is not evidence that there was pressure placed prior to the fact.

M Man's picture

Right.  Okay.

So here is Michigan, saying in effect, "There's a new sheriff in town; we just got the memo from the feds..."

Thanks for asking about this.  I knew that this was out there, pre-dating the Gibbons re-investigation, but you inspired me to pull up the official link.

Citrus's picture

That Title IX claims are being used in this way is a huge federal overreach *** the remainder of this comment has been censored so that the author is not in violation of 11W's political speech prohibitions, however, the full text of this comment is viewable to premium members ***

+5 HS
AngryWoody's picture

Damn what a rip-off! I paid the 111.11 and I still can't see it!

Our Honor Defend!

+3 HS
AngryWoody's picture

M Man, you made the exact point I was going to (I think we were talking about this during the Gibbons debacle). The notion that some unelected, unaccountable bureaucracy that operates in secret can just run around punishing people with absolutely no due process is insane. In both the Gibbons and Winston case, the incidents were investigated by law enforcement and there wasn't enough there to amount to anything. Then all the sudden the DOJ comes out of nowhere and starts unilaterally handing out (or pressuring the school to) punishment on people who were never found guilty of anything. Whether you think they're innocent or guilty, and I really don't believe Winston in this case, this isn't how it should be handled.

To everyone who is downvoting M Man for bringing it up, I would say It's a big deal and you should be upset about it because it could be one of our guys next. I mean imagine if the girl who lied about Hyde beating her up had said he raped her too? Would you feel comfortable knowing that even though no charges were pressed El Guapo could have been kicked out of school in some secret proceedings by the DOJ?

Our Honor Defend!

+4 HS
johnblairgobucks's picture

venturing into the hypothetical possibilities, say an athlete was accussed of rape.  The only two that know the truth are the accuser and the accused.  The accuser files a police report and gets a rape kit administered at the hospital even after local police advise the accuser that her life may get uncomfortable due to who she is accusing.  A full year goes by and the accuser still holds steady on her claim.   Her claim is again "investigated", but enough proof to press charges were not found.  The accused lawyered up.  16 months after the incident, the accuser still claims the rape happened.  So is injustice being done to the athlete, when the school investigates another student's claims that have been steady for 16 months, or is injustice being done to the accuser, who the school would not try to help, because a football player may get suspended?

If ballers are worried about getting falsely accused of rape, maybe they should have more respect for themselves and the girls they want to get with and get to know them  before they feel the  need to go back to their apartment leave their DNA on them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1 HS
Run_Fido_Run's picture

John Blair: you lost this argument. MMan and Woody are right.

We're talking about legal/policy precedents, so whatever principles you support, they must apply broadly in just and workable ways. Yes, we all want justice to be served in each individual case, but it's a bad precedent to have the federal Justice Department concentrating extra-legal and illegitimate pressures on universities, with the universities then deploying kangaroo court-style proceedings on students to placate the extralegal federal authorities.

Such a process might succeed in dispensing appropriate justice to a few additional perpetrators that otherwise might have been able to elude the criminal justice system, which as you point out has high burdens of proof, etc., but at what costs?

johnblairgobucks's picture

 the topic of the Winston case is all I have interest in.  The Gibbons case is different, and I don't know much about it.

As far as an argument, well, I'm not here to argue anything.  Just discussing what I'm feeling.  I have no need to be right.

Winston's case had witnesses and DNA evidence that make it a CERTAIN event.  Winston lawyered up, didn't cooperate and the case was stalled.  IMO, the lack of evidence to support a legal case, doesn't mean that something wrong didn't happen to the girl.... maybe nothing wrong did, but I find it ok that the university is willing to go to greater lengths to defend the rights of it's students.

Again, the Winston case is all I I am trying to discuss, because all events are different and therefore can't be lumped together.

+2 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

The notion that some unelected, unaccountable bureaucracy that operates in secret can just run around punishing people with absolutely no due process is insane. In both the Gibbons and Winston case, the incidents were investigated by law enforcement and there wasn't enough there to amount to anything. Then all the sudden the DOJ comes out of nowhere and starts unilaterally handing out (or pressuring the school to) punishment on people who were never found guilty of anything.

 

+1 HS
AngryWoody's picture

You get all the upvotes ever lol

Our Honor Defend!

sgehrich's picture

While I understand the point you are making, I will remind you that Urban has already set a precedence of how he will handle these situations. And I'm not referring to Hyde. Remember Se'Von Pittman? He was accused of rape and immediately dismissed from the team. 

+4 HS
M Man's picture

This is a point that I have made, repeatedly (but not much noticed) on this and other blogs.

There is a wall, somewhere in the WHAC; on it is painted (per orders of Coach Meyer, I believe) and it says something about treating women with respect.  Now a lot of fans (notably fans of your hated rivals, something of which I have a bit of knowledge) have ridiculed it as sort of bumpkin, lowbrow, elementary; you choose your own descriptive term.

I didn't quite get it at first.  Now I do.  The new Title IX initiatives, which were being rolled out at the same time that Urban Meyer was traveling around the country, working with media elites, and considering the OSU job, were the reason.  At least that is what I think.

Urban Meyer is being openly proactive on this with his team and he is smart to do so.  (Somebody correct me if I'm mistaken; was this wall a Tressel-directive or a Meyer-creation?)

I want to make a promise and I expect ElevenWarriors to hold me to it:  I hereby promise to give the first scholarship athlete at The Ohio State University who may be subjected to a Title IX-inspired investigation, the exact same defensive consideration that I have given to Brendan Gibbons in Gibbons' disputed case.

Like this.

+5 HS
AndyVance's picture

My understanding is that the wall was Urban-inspired, but I think your read on why he's included the edict about treating women with respect... He has two college-age daughters, right? A lot of us joke about having the talk with our daughters' future boyfriends in which you are cleaning the family shotgun and making references about not being afraid to go to prison (favorite line from the classic film Clueless: "I've got a .45 and a shovel, I doubt anyone will miss you."), but I think Coach probably genuinely expects his players to treat women with respect, as they should, and along with potential drug usage probably sees athlete/female relations as one of the biggest "off-field issues" that might get his guys into hot water... Title IX or not.

M Man's picture

Andy, don't mistake me for thinking that Coach Meyer isn't genuine.  I think he is.  And, I think he is smart.  And he pays attention.  When he came up to Michigan for the Sound Mind Sound Body camp, he couldn't believe that it was legal per the NCAA.  He turned to his guys there and said, "We've got to do this."

So I stand by what I said -- I think Meyer was paying attention to Title IX and he was smart to do so.  And I didn't ever mean to imply that his personal motives were in any way suspect.

+1 HS
AndyVance's picture

I hear you - I didn't think you were downplaying Meyer's sincerity, I just think that the Title IX stuff is so - this is sounds dumb even as I type it that it hurts - new, in this context at least, that I have a hard time thinking that it's that calculated. But you could be right... we talk about Meyer being the mind master all the time, so it's certainly possible.

M Man's picture

The Title IX "stuff" started with the "Dear Colleague" letter of April, 2011.  When Urban Meyer was recently out of Gainesville, getting started with ESPN, and just going around the country visiting spring camps of coaches he knew personally.  Including Michigan and its then-head coach and a favorite personal friend of Meyer's, Rich Rodriguez.

Coach Meyer in Michigan's Glick Fieldhouse, spring '11; taking in a practice with the legendary Schembechler-era OL coach, Jerry Hanlon:

 

+1 HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

this story is about all of the new overweening federal pressure exerted by the Department of Education and the Department of Justice under the Obama Administration

Really? I think that perhaps you're watching way too much Glenn Beck and FascistNews...

This story is quite simply about what has been true ever since we were children - those who excel, in virtually any walk of life, but especially sports and entertainment, live by entirely different rules. That's just how it is. That's life, it's not fair, we get it.

The truth is that the feds are permitted to be involved when states fail to appropriately protect the civil rights of their citizens. Got a problem with it? Well, that's how segregation was defeated. That's why separate but equal is not equal. If people are upset at the feds for getting involved, then take it out on the local police and FSU administration. Otherwise, you are simply buying into the hateful narrative that blames everything on Obama, or Bush, or whoever, rather that holding those accountable who are supposed to protect the public at large. It's pretty simple. If FSU screwed up, the victim deserves justice. If they didn't, and Winston is guilty of no crime whatsoever, even better for everyone involved.

I do wonder what will happen at Vandy now, since the victim's story has changed. NO ONE is covering that...

"I can accept failure, but I cannot accept not trying." - W.W. Hayes

-1 HS
M Man's picture

Nope; it is NOT just about star athletes or celebrities.  See below; my reference to James Taranto's remarkable (remarkable for his having gotten access to how they actually "deliberated" in the Josh Strange case) story on the Auburn case for the Wall Street Journal.  It can happen to anybody; it's not just star football players.

As for your political taunts... Here is where I respectfully draw the line.  I won't go after your chosen news sources in a punch-for-counterpunch exchange.  I will simply say the following.

As Taranto (link just below) points out (and as the Gibbons/Michigan case has dramatically demonstrated), it is a new directive from the Department of Education that has kicked off this whole issue.  The timing, and the origin of the Dept. of Ed. "Dear Colleague" directive are essential parts of the story, no matter whom you may have supported in the last election.  There is a reason that nothing happened in the Gibbons case, from 2010, to almost 2014.  What happened, in the interim, was a federal executive branch change.  That's a fact.  Nobody even argues that point.  Nobody in the Obama Administration would argue the point.  It is their stated, acknowledged, policy.

You wrote:

It's pretty simple. If FSU screwed up, the victim deserves justice. If they didn't, and Winston is guilty of no crime whatsoever, even better for everyone involved.

The place that our society and our system of jurisprudence has (rightly) consigned those questions, is a court of law.  If someone wants to insist that universities are free to demand a code of conduct higher than legal conduct in the rest of civil society, okay.  Just tell us how such a system will provide a tribunal and a fact-finding mechanism that protects the rights of the accused.  And will be accountable to the public that has endowed the University of Michigan, the Ohio State University, Florida State University, Auburn University, etc., etc.

+2 HS
AngryWoody's picture

This story is quite simply about what has been true ever since we were children - those who excel, in virtually any walk of life, but especially sports and entertainment, live by entirely different rules. That's just how it is. That's life, it's not fair, we get it.

The truth is that the feds are permitted to be involved when states fail to appropriately protect the civil rights of their citizens. Got a problem with it? Well, that's how segregation was defeated. That's why separate but equal is not equal.

I think MLK  would be rolling over in his grave if he saw you were trying to use segregation as an excuse to get a young black man labeled a rapist and thrown out of college without a fair jury trial.

Our Honor Defend!

+1 HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

If FSU screwed up, the victim deserves justice. If they didn't, and Winston is guilty of no crime whatsoever, even better for everyone involved.

That is the gist of my message. My apologies if I conveyed it in an ineffective way. Because if Winston is innocent, which we all must assume at this point, then this investigation should confirm it. I see it truly as just a mistake by four young people who should have known better. We'll proably never know exactly what happened, because Winston, rightly so, has not addressed the events and probably wants to move on with his life. However, I do not see how anything I said is attempting to label him. Let's be honest, most of us have heard of similar situations, and the male, unjustly so, is always assumed to be guilty.

MLK sought equality, where one is not judged by anything other than "the content of their character." That means that the victims has rights too, no matter who the alleged perpetrator was. One thing that is unfair is assuredly this - when anyone is accused of any sexual crime, it taints their lives forever. Some people will never move past it. From what we know currently, the school certainly seemed to take some strange steps. The alleged victim also has changed her story, or at least has waiverred in her willingness to proceed with the case, which is typical both of actual victims, and those just seeking attention. This is traditionally what makes sexual assault cases so difficult. At least, that's one side of the story anyway.

Let me be clear, until there is evidence to the contrary, I believe Winston did not rape the alleged victim. However, some people just assume his guilt.

Please don't twist or misunderstand what I said. We are endowed with equal rights, which include the fed becoming involved if there is a civil rights issue that a state might have ignored. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. I certainly do not want anyone of any race, religion, nationality, sex, or age to be labeled anything that they are not because of how they look, or how they are different.

Once again, I reiterate, that what is interesting is that the Vandy scandal is proceeding, but no one is discussing  all the controversy surrounding that case, simply because Winston is a star. Again, different treatment for different individuals.

"I can accept failure, but I cannot accept not trying." - W.W. Hayes

jamesrbrown322's picture

As I understand it, this is more an investigation of the process that the school used, rather than the guilt or innocence of the parties, correct? Perhaps I am misunderstanding the new use of Title IX, but that's how I understand it.

"I can accept failure, but I cannot accept not trying." - W.W. Hayes

AngryWoody's picture

It's all good man. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I will say this though, I would bet that 99% of sports/news site conversations on this went like this:

"LEL JAMIS WINSSTIN? MOAR LIEK RAPIST WINSTIN AMIRITE?"

We were able to have a really good well thought out discussion over it and whether we agree or not this is what makes 11W one(if not THE) best sports site out there.

 

Our Honor Defend!

+1 HS
M Man's picture

Agreed, AW.  11W is the best blog and the best discussion board.

You're right about the lowest common denominator of other blog-board discussions.  #DontEvenWantToThinkAboutIt

+1 HS
M Man's picture

No, JRB322; it is an entirely new level of inquiry and a wholly different level of proof.

A "suspect" in a Title IX case will be judged on the basis of a "preponderance of the evidence."  And his crime may simply be having sex that he genuinely believed to be consensual, but with a woman who is judged to have been of diminished capacity, i.e., drinking.

Again, see the Joshua Strange case at Auburn.  A reminder; the Auburn case is unique, insofar as there was a recording of the proceedings that was leaked to the Wall Street Journal.  That hasn't happened in any other cases that I know of.  There is litigation over some of these cases; the Auburn case won't be the last one in which we see the inner workings of how sausage is made under Title IX.

jamesrbrown322's picture

It does bring the issue of sovereignty into question that's for sure. 

"I can accept failure, but I cannot accept not trying." - W.W. Hayes

bleedscarlet's picture

Whether Gibbons was guilty or innocent belongs in a court of law but whether the university will allow him to continue his education there or not DOES belong in a student activity building. They have every right to weed out unsavory characters like him and send them on their way. The Winston case is a glaring example of how law enforcement has let the public down by dragging their feet until it's too late, at least someone is doing something.

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

+3 HS
M Man's picture

Maybe; but not if the university student discipline/sexual assault review board handles its job in a way that is incompetent, denies the accused his procedural and substantive due process rights, and results in permanent reputational harm to the subject of any punishment.

Like what happened at Auburn, to Joshua Strange.

bleedscarlet's picture

Due process? Character is taken into account before admission without due process, why should it change after someone is enrolled? Especially someone there on scholarship and who is a visible representative of the school. Even a perceived tolerance to this kind behavior can be damaging to the school and some schools are simply deciding it isn't worth the risk. I don't know about you but if it were me making those kinds of decisions, I would rather err on the side of caution and be known for being too harsh than too tolerant. Fair/ unfair, competent/ incompetent... these things would mean zilch if nothing was done and a kid ends up committing the same act again later on. I get what you're saying but those things are easily said when it isn't you that is charged with the student population's safety.

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

M Man's picture

BleedScarlet:

...these things would mean zilch if nothing was done and a kid ends up committing the same act again later on...

To the best of my knowledge, Brendan Gibbons was never in trouble in four years after his redshirt freshman year, when the incident arose with the female athlete whom he was later accused of having assaulted.

bleedscarlet's picture

and we may never know if he didn't do anything else or if someone simply never came forward due to the lack of legal action the first time around...... like I said before, at least someone is doing something now. UM is well within their rights not to want to have someone associated with their university that is even alleged to have committed rape. Maybe they're wrong, maybe they're right but in the end it is their decision to make because attendance there is a privilege that they allow to who they want on their campus.

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

buckeyedexter's picture

What kind of creepy weirdos hang around their friend while he's having sex with someone?  Were they standing in line or keeping look out? 

+3 HS
Go1Bucks's picture

As I said before, JW is a rapist.  Even knowledge of a rape, is a crime. Or at least impeding an investigation.  Either way, he should be in jail.

Go Bucks!

+1 HS
Colerain 2004 G.O.A.T.'s picture

They were gang banging these fine lil white chics on a daily basis. There was a story and it added up that they were also adding something to the alcohol to make the chics consent faster and to make their memory cloudy. If any of us were to add something to a hot college chics drink to make her want it faster and harder we would have been sent down the river for 10 years. Here is a bump of adderall"Opps its heroin" type of thing. JW and his roommate said they did these things all the time and it was no big deal.And they filmed it regularly. The chics put themselves in messed up situations probably most of the time but when one doesnt follow suit this is the type of situation we have. And the way the FSU and local police handled it was down right scary.

I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne

Alex Boones Liver's picture

John, I want this T-shirt.

 

+5 HS
johnblairgobucks's picture

wait 5 years and there will probably be a few back in the gift shop of the Tackle Box, in Fremont, next to those stylish shades.

+1 HS
Alex Boones Liver's picture

No, they have run out things to wipe down tables so they have already started using them in place of a wash cloth.

+1 HS
Seattle Linga's picture

It wins the internet today

+1 HS
Toilrt Paper's picture

So, the guy having all the fun doesn't get charged and the 2 standing are taking the fall? Only at a Florida football school.

+3 HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

Only at a Florida football school.

Careful, our coach was previously at one...

"I can accept failure, but I cannot accept not trying." - W.W. Hayes

Deadly Nuts's picture

Wasn't Jameis thanking God and such after he  won the MNCG? Is he religious?

Don't want to start anything but I haven't come across many religions that agree with premarital sex.

LEBRON

+1 HS
BamBamBuck's picture

Hope Winston is expelled from the University as it sounds like FSU has grounds to do so. In reality, I would be very, very surprised if that happened. So on to wishful thinking plan B, I hope that POS has every ligament in both knees shredded during his next athletic outing!!! While I really do not like to wish ill on others I have no sympathy for assholes like these three, F'em.

BamBamBuck

+4 HS
Deadly Nuts's picture

Casher also said he'd walked into the room "to see if the female would agree to allow Casher to participate in the sex acts that were occurring." Denied, he filmed the two having sex on his cell phone.

 

LEBRON

+4 HS