Lucas vs. Lebron: Who Is Ohio's Ultimate, "Mr. Basketball"

By Hoody Wayes -22 February 2013
84 Comments
- Basketball

Ohio is the only state that can claim two, two-time, Mr. Basketball USA winners.

All things considered, who is Ohio's ultimate Mr. Basketball: Jerry Lucas or Lebron James?

buck-I.8 on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:10am #

Well one of those names is arguably the best athlete in the world, so I'm gonna go with Lebron. That said though, few people embody "Ohio's son" like Mr. Lucas.

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:17am #

Jerry Lucas went to tOSU. Jerry wins.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Triv on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:21am #

But Lebron played 7 professional seasons in Ohio. Gotta give it to James here, despite "The Decision"

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:29am #

Since when does being a Cavalier trump being a Buckeye?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Poison nuts on 22 Feb 2013 - 9:51am #

It's been pretty well documented he would have come to OSU had he not turned pro out of HS, so while that's not being a Buckeye technically, Lebron always will be a Buckeye in my book. Then again, my book is on sale at the discount book store in the "huge discount" bin...

The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.

tennbuckeye19 on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:22pm #

I'm not saying he's not a Buckeye, because I do think he's a fan and a friend of the program. But James can say whatever he wants about where he would've gone since he didn't go to college, but seriously, do you think Jim O'Brien would've landed him? O'Brien had a recruiting policy of refusing to go after top talent.

Also, James has supposedly also said that he would've played for Akron, where his old HS coach became the HC.

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 7:18pm #

Also, James has supposedly also said that he would've played for Akron,

Wasn't that said before he announced he was going to the NBA?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 7:14pm #

Entertaining as always, PN.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Triv on 22 Feb 2013 - 2:21pm #

Since when did this post ask about Buckeyes? It said OHIO's all time Mr. Basketball. Not Ohio State's. In my mind it's not a debate. Lebron will go down as #2 of all time, and he spent the first 7 years of that pro career in Ohio after terrorizing Ohio High School Basketball for 4 years

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 7:20pm #

If you're going to bring up him playing in Cleveland, Lucas playing for tOSU is fair game.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Triv on 22 Feb 2013 - 7:39pm #

I'm aware of that. To me it seemed like Lucas playing for OSU was somehow trumping Lebrons time in Cleveland purely because this is a buckeye blog, even though the question was about Mr. Ohio.

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 8:12pm #

To me it does. Lucas helped bring Ohio State its one and only NC in basketball.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Triv on 23 Feb 2013 - 3:09pm #

Yes he did, but the question asked had nothing to do with Ohio State. It asked who was the better OHIO basketball player. If you just look at it statistically and from unbiased standpoint (I love the Cavs and Buckeyes) then its nearly impossible to argue that Lebron isn't the better Ohio basketball player. Jerry did some great things for OSU and was an amazing basketball player, but Lebron is just in a different league

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

AndyVance on 23 Feb 2013 - 3:41pm #

Ah, there's where the argument falls apart: it is impossible to objectively compare these two players, and implying that a simple statistical comparison between the two settles the matter underscores the point. The game itself was much different in 1960 than it was in 2010 for a variety of self-evident and fairly obvious reasons.

EVERYONE is better statistically today than their historical counterparts - physical development, training, coaching philosophy, etc., have all evolved in such a way as to make statistical comparisons highly unfavorable to the elder athlete.

Don't believe me? Use this classic comparison from last summer's Olypiad: The New York Times compiled the times of every medalist in the 100m from the past 116 years, and stacked them side by side. The verdict? Usain Bolt would have finished 6.5 meters ahead of Jesse Owens, arguably the greatest track and field star of the 20th Century.

Notice I said arguably. Why? You could also make the case that Carl Lewis was the greatest, but he would finish nearly 3 meters behind Bolt in this hypothetical trial. It's not just that Bolt is an amazing athletic aberration, it's that sprinters as a whole have gotten significantly faster over the past 116 years.

Same story with LeBron versus Lucas: King James has benefited from a half-century's evolution of the game itself, and everything to goes into it. You can make the argument that James is better, but simply relying on the stats as the objective end of discussion is a fallacy. The very question of who is greater is subjective, and so then will be the answers.

Triv on 23 Feb 2013 - 4:32pm #

Very true, but I just don't believe Jerry dominated every aspect of the game the way Lebron does.

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

AndyVance on 23 Feb 2013 - 6:40pm #

And I'm okay with that rationale, really I am. I'm just saying that this is a really subjective question, and for me Jerry Lucas is the ultimate Ohio basketball player for the reasons others have cited. Will LeBron go down as the greatest NBA star ever when it's all said and done with? Maybe, maybe.

kareemabduljacobb on 23 Feb 2013 - 7:15pm #

That could also be contributed to better shoes and running surfaces but I agree athletes are a lot bigger, faster, stronger now. LBJ even playing in Jordan's era would pry have us asking who would be the next LBJ instead MJ.

Buckeyevstheworld on 23 Feb 2013 - 7:38pm #

LBJ even playing in Jordan's era would pry have us asking who would be the next LBJ instead MJ.

I get that you're a James fan, but that statement is just laughable.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

kareemabduljacobb on 23 Feb 2013 - 7:40pm #

Not at all. The league then had little athleticism which is partly why MJ dominated.. now days most bench players would trump all the older generation in athleticism.. now add 2 inches and 50 pounds to MJ... you have LeBron... who is gonna come close to stopping him?? No one... and all those old bad boys/enforcers would end up 20 rows in the stands trying to foul LBJ hard. Too much of a beast and genetic freak... it wouldn't be funny.

Buckeyevstheworld on 23 Feb 2013 - 7:47pm #

You believe LeBron is a bigger version of MJ? That seriously made me laugh.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

kareemabduljacobb on 23 Feb 2013 - 7:54pm #

Talking in terms of speed, athleticism. Etc.

Buckeyevstheworld on 23 Feb 2013 - 11:30pm #

That was barely half of what made Jordan, Jordan.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

kareemabduljacobb on 24 Feb 2013 - 12:48am #

True, but it doesn't hurt being ahead of your time and having no one who could compare to you in athleticism. My point is LBJ being the size of Karl Malone moving like MJ, playing back then when LBJ would have outweighed most centers and would have bull dozed anyone who got in his path... he would have put up ungodly like numbers as well.

BrewstersMillions on 24 Feb 2013 - 11:27am #

You really have to stop, Kareem. People don't think LeBron is good because they don't like him. For some reason, its laughable to compare one of the all time NBA greats (Michael) to another one of the all time NBA greats (LeBron) because older is better and LeBron can't play in that league...which is a fallacy if ever there was one.

I get your point. LeBron has the size of an NBA power forward and can, and does, run the point when his team needs to. He also matches up on every team's best scorer. He's probably one of the best passers in the history of the game, he's improved his jump shot, and is now taking over games at his choosing.

But no, don't compare him to Michael who guarded teams' best scorer, facilitated when he had to, improved his jump shot as his career went on and took over games when ever he wanted to. They are nothing alike....

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

Buckeyevstheworld on 24 Feb 2013 - 12:05pm #

You really have to stop, Kareem. People don't think LeBron is good because they don't like him.

And here we go with this nonsense.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

AndyVance on 24 Feb 2013 - 12:46pm #

Actually, Brewster makes a really, really good point: MJ has this impenetrable aura that belie the fact that he's a much, much less likable character than LBJ. If Michael had played in the era of social media, I think the public would have a much different perspective on him. Fortunately for MJ, the lack of competition seem in the Magic vs. bird era, coupled with the Nike marketing machine, have created something of a mythic status for Jordan that would not have reached such outlandish proportions had he played a decade prior or later.

Buckeyevstheworld on 24 Feb 2013 - 1:32pm #

I've never cared for Shaq either. That doesn't change the fact that I think he's one of the 10 best players ever.

MJ has this impenetrable aura that belie the fact that he's a much, much less likable character than LBJ.

That depends on who you ask.

Fortunately for MJ, the lack of competition seem in the Magic vs. bird era, coupled with the Nike marketing machine, have created something of a mythic status for Jordan that would not have reached such outlandish proportions had he played a decade prior or later.

Why do people act as if MJ won against teams without any talent at all? You also say "mythic status" as if MJ being called the greatest is a huge crime.

LeBron has all benefited from the Nike hype machine. He's also benefited from years of ESPiN hype since he was 16. They've spent the last 4 years telling me why I should love LeBron.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

AndyVance on 24 Feb 2013 - 5:48pm #

Let me take another stab at this... The first comment, about likability, is by definition subjective (as is this entire thread, btw, as it is nigh on impossible to objectively quantify something as "the greatest" anything - it is truly an "eye of the beholder" question).

MJ's HOF speech was the most blatantly dickish acceptance speech I've ever heard. Others probably heard it and said "Right on, man." MJ has a huge (from what I've read/heard, so not necessarily the gospel) gambling problem that most casual fans don't know about. MJ appears to do very little for the community compared with a Magic Johnson, who has made immense contributions to various civic and philanthropic efforts. Maybe MJ is a great humanitarian, maybe he isn't, but I think you can make the case that he's nowhere near as likable as a Magic Johnson, Larry Bird or LeBron James. Again, it's a very subjective issue.

On the second comment, I don't think anyone thinks it's a huge crime for a fan to believe MJ is "the greatest," but you can make the claim that others are quite accomplished as well. I'm not an MJ fan, as you can probably tell, but I acknowledge he's accomplished something that only a dozen other men have done in winning at least six NBA Championships.

That said, if you look at the teams the Bulls beat in their playoff wins during the Jordan/Pippin era, you could argue that they were nowhere near as talented as the teams the Lakers and Celtics beat in their runs to the top, you can easily argue that they were stacked with all-stars and future hall of famers on a much different level.

I think Jordan benefited from a perfect storm of circumstances that paved the way for creating what I think of as "the legend of Michael Jordan," including a renewed public interest in the NBA after a decade of great battles between the Lakers and Celtics, a massive Nike marketing machine that had not previously taken the face of a single player to near the heights as it did Jordan in the '90s (he was in a movie with Bugs freaking Bunny, for crying out loud), and a softer set of opponents than faced Kareem/Johnson, etc., in the '80s.

The Jordan bandwagon was huge, and it was easy to get on board. Great player? Yes. Would he have been "the greatest of all time" if he were playing in the '80s or playing in the league today? I don't think so, but that is again, by definition, a subjective position.

William on 24 Feb 2013 - 7:25pm #

This. I work at the country club in Pinehurst during the summer where MJ is a member. Yes he does have a huge gambling problem, and he is also a King McAsshole, I also think there have been several more accomplished NBA players than him.

AndyVance on 24 Feb 2013 - 7:33pm #

Thanks for adding some on-the-ground perspective, William... I've always been perplexed at how little the average fan knows about the kind of guy MJ appears to be, while we're all painfully well aware of the off-the-court shortcomings of other stars. I genuinely think the lack of social media attention during MJ's title runs allowed the Nike marketing machine to outshine his obvious personality/character flaws. Disclaimer, for the MJ fans in the crowd, I don't know Mike personally, he could be a helluva guy. Just saying that signs point otherwise.

BrewstersMillions on 25 Feb 2013 - 8:38am #

Michael Jordan was (and might always be) the biggest heel in the NBA. It was odd for me as a fan because all I saw was the guy who took my local team to 6 titles and never lost. The guy did a kids movie so he can't be that bad right?

No one talked more trash than Michael, no one worked the refs more than Michael, no one was more despised in and out of his locker room than Michael. He took a swing at Scottie Pippen for not keeping score. In a practice game. Anyone drafted by Jerry Krause (Bulls GM) was seen as a potential replacement for Jordan and the stories about him relentlessly attacking those guys in practice have only recently begun to surface. He and Pippen mercilessly attacked Toni Kukoc in the 1992 Olympics because he had the audacity to be drafted by the Bulls. Fact is-Mike was a dick. Still is. Andy and William correctly point out a few things. His HOF acceptance speech was, well....typical Jordan. The guy still found time to attack Byron Russell. His gambling problem was the stuff of legend and has spawned two theories (one viable, one not so much) about his career-He got busted betting on basketball so he 'retired' for 17 months (Viable). His dad was killed to settle a gambling debt (Not really viable). With all of this said, he is one of the more beloved sports figures to people not in the know.

LeBron, for all intents and purposes, is on the NBA's good guys yet is still more vilified than any player in the NBA, yet there is currently a guy in LA who is more like Jordan and less disliked than James.

But that brings up the bigger question-Why does it matter? Why do athletes have to be liked or disliked by neutral parties? Michael was galvanizing because he took a lot of great NBA teams and beat them all. Think about the list of guys who are in the NBA HOF (Or will be) and never got a title because of MJ and the Bulls. Its a long, distinguished list. Meanwhile, James appears to be on that same trajectory. Anthony, Rose, Durant, Howard, to name a few will all go down as one of the best in history at their respective positions and may never win a ring because of LeBron.

Edit-Having read Williams last comment closer, it does raise a question but I see where you are going. Guys won more rings, scored more points, made more All Whatever teams. I get that. The working theory in Chicago is that if you look at the Bulls run, 91-92-93 they win the title. No one would argue them being odds on favorites the 1.5 years Jordan was gone so lets say 94-95 fall to the Bulls as well. Krause and Co. retools the roster for the second three peat of 96, 97, 98 but its clear they were on their last legs as a dynasty. With that said, had Jordan been the owner of 8 rings in a row it defies logic to think he wouldn't at least make a push at 9 and 10. The Celtics teams of days past all had players that accomplished more from a title perspective but no one impacted buckets like Jordan. Magic and Larry started turning the NBA into a huge affair but Michael made it an international game. I agree that guys may have won more than him, but I'd say no one did more in, to, or for the NBA than Jordan.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

BrewstersMillions on 25 Feb 2013 - 8:42am #

Andy, Michael was drafted in 1983 so he played against those teams a lot. It was his Bulls that closed the Show Time Lakers for good, he also prevented guranteed Hall of Famers like Ewing, Drexler*, Barkely, Malone, Stockton, to name a few that they would never win a ring while he was around.

I'm aware Clyde got his but only after he left Portland and only while Michael was on hiatus.

He did play in the 80's and once he (like Magic, Larry, Kobe, and so on) got his running mate and he got over the Detroit hump, there was no one that stood in his or the Bulls way.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

AndyVance on 25 Feb 2013 - 9:07am #

Obviously that's correct - the flip side (and I'm just being contrary for the sake of discussion, not because I passionately disagree, per se) is that he didn't "show up" until the end of that period when the other big guns retired...

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar retired in 1989.

Magic Johnson retired in 1991.

Larry Bird retired in 1992.

Michael didn't "arrive" until those guys retired, despite having won Rookie of the Year and having an amazing year three (after that second-year injury - I was like three at the time, I think). The Celtics shut the Bulls out of the playoffs, then the Pistons shut them down three years in a row, and it wasn't until the early '90s when so many of those future Hall of Famers of the era retired en masse that the Bulls went on their big runs.

BrewstersMillions on 25 Feb 2013 - 9:18am #

I guess that's where we differ. He put an end to Magic's Lakers one the Bulls put an end to Detroit. Neither franchise recovered after Jordan finalyl toppled them. He didn't really have to contend with the Celtics, so I get that part of it, but Kemp's Sonics, Malone's Jazz, Miller's Pacers, and Ewing's Knicks all were really really good teams. I guess its hard to consider the opposition Jordan faced as better than that of the Magic\Larry era because it was only one team that was winning, so its easy to say the Celtic and Lakers were great because they both got theirs, but in Michael's era, there was no sharing-And that's a testament to the greatness of the Bulls, not the level of talent in the NBA at that time. It makes sense to see a team win 72 games in one year and think "well the league wasn't that good was it? How can a team win 72 times?". There were some incredibly talented and deep teams those years and the Bulls smashed all of them. I personally feel (bias showing) that the 96-98 Bulls was the greatest dynasty in NBA history given how much they won and how little they were challenged. I know the easy retort to that is the Celtic teams that won countless titles but that was in an NBA where they could have a roster of 12 Hall of Famers-the Bulls were unable to do that.

It is also begging the argument of which team would beat which team, but the game is so much different. If you put those Celtic teams in Jordan's league in the mid to late 90's, common sense dictates the more athletic, advanced athletes would obliterate the black and white era teams and by that vein, this Heat team would eat those Bulls for lunch-and that isn't fair because it isn't Russel's fault, Jordan's fault, or James' fault what era they played in, so there is no way to quantify that discussion.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

AndyVance on 25 Feb 2013 - 9:27am #

Yep, all logical arguments. It's back to the question of parity in basketball... Is the B1G the toughest conference this year because everyone's beaten everyone, or has everyone beaten everyone because the conference is the toughest in the league? The logical follow-up is, was Jordan the greatest player because he beat everyone else, or did he beat everyone else because they weren't nearly as good?

Really, that's just a rhetorical question... I'm not heavily invested in the answer either way, because I think the question of "the greatest" is by definition subjective, and your answer will be different than mine, which will be different from four or five other guys weighing in on this thread.

I don't (personally - total opinion here) like Mike, and would be much more likely to pick one of those Lakers greats or one of the old timers on the "50 greatest" lists to say he was my favorite. But, I don't fault anyone who says MJ is their guy. I just think his rise to prominence came on the back of a perfect storm of factors that made him an "overnight success" in his 8th or 9th season, and that he wouldn't be as dominant in the league today.

D. Anthony on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:24am #

Do not like Bron-Bron at all, but he is the clear pick here.

D. Anthony

Oakland Buckeye on 22 Feb 2013 - 11:34am #

Sweetest Icon ever!

Chise47 on 22 Feb 2013 - 8:02pm #

".....Bron-Bron..........", really?

Don't like LeBron, then you don't like basketball!! Also one of ,"those", who think college BB is better because, "...in the NBA, 'they', don't play defense until the playoffs!"

Bucksfan on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:26am #

If it's just these two, gotta go with LeBron. LeBron might be the best basketball player to ever play. Period. I'm not the only one saying that (you've got guys like Dan Patrick saying it, too), and I'm not saying it because he's playing right now and I'm some sort of prisoner of the moment. There is one other player to have played the majority of his career in Ohio that can lay claim to the kind of numbers that LeBron is putting up, and it's Oscar Robertson - who was born in Tennessee, but played his college and pro ball in Cincinnati. So, if it's just native born players, Lebron is in a class all his own.

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 7:24pm #

Dan Patrick saying it, too

Well if Dan says it, it must be true. :/

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

BuckeyeChief Mod on 22 Feb 2013 - 8:09pm #

Uhh...Bonjour?

"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"

No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.

lamplighter on 24 Feb 2013 - 12:59pm #

is Dan Patrick the new "Rolling Stone"?

Buckeye Beast on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:54am #

I'm sorry, but I just don't see any debate. LeBron is an Ohio guy who came right out of high school as the #1 pick in the league, & he'll go down as the 2nd greatest of all time when he's done. He may not be on the Cavs, but I respect an Ohio guy who does big things in the league. It reflects well on the quality of Ohio Basketball players.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere, & Michigan still sucks

BuckeyeChief Mod on 22 Feb 2013 - 6:09am #

Lucas; he won a National title at Ohio State.

"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"

No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.

lamplighter on 24 Feb 2013 - 9:24am #

Lucas also won a HS championship (2), Olympics gold, and an NBA title. The decider will never match those 5 wins.

He played with the Cincinnati Royals until he was traded

From Wiki:

"At retirement, Lucas ranked fourth all-time in rebounds per game to Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell and Bob Pettit.

He was named to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 1980, and was later named one of the 50 Greatest NBA Players in 1996."

Not bad for a 6'8" kid who could shoot from outside

Actually, these comparisons are really inane - who was better the 27 Yankees or the 75 Reds? Run all the sims you want, the Reds would beat the Yankees. Jack or Tiger is really the more interesting matchup or Ginger and Mary Ann

BuckeyeChief Mod on 24 Feb 2013 - 9:30am #

Mary Ann

"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"

No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.

cajunbuckeye on 24 Feb 2013 - 10:55am #

No way, it's Ginger.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

BrewstersMillions on 24 Feb 2013 - 11:23am #

LeBron won 2 HS championships, Olympic Gold and an NBA title-so no he hasn't an NCAA title but that's because he was good enough to be the first pick taken in the draft out of high school.

If they did a new top 50 all time, LeBron makes that list too. He was 12 when that list was made.

He is 6'8 and can shoot from the outside.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

William on 22 Feb 2013 - 12:30pm #

Neither. John Havlicek. I understand that he didn't win Mr. Basketball, but as of now he's the best basketball player to come from the state of Ohio. He won a national title at OSU, he won 8 titles in the NBA, he revolutionized the "sixth man" role, he was the first player to score 1,000 or more points 16 seasons in a row, he's 11th all-time in the NBA in scoring and Bill Russell said he was the best all-around basketball player he's ever seen. Now I do think it's entirely possible for LeBron to pass Havlicek, but I'd argue that he hasn't yet.

Edit: I should change my statement to that in which I view Havlicek as the 'ultimate' Mr. Basketball because he has had far and away the best career. I do agree that LeBron is the more skilled/talented player, however 'ultimate' in this sense is rather subjective, and I'll go with the guy that has had one of the best careers in NBA history.

BrewstersMillions on 22 Feb 2013 - 12:34pm #

I get that-but LeBron has had a better career to date and appears to be making the metamorphosis that Michael made at a point in his career. LeBron no longer has to out athlete everyone the way Michael no longer had to just out jump and dunk everyone. LeBron is already having a HOF career and appears to be PROGRESSING.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

William on 22 Feb 2013 - 1:50pm #

I get that, and I agree that it's only a matter of time before he surpasses Havlicek's marks, but he hasn't yet. Right now give me Havlicek's career,but 5 years down the road I'm sure LeBron will have surpassed him, but he hasn't yet.

BrewstersMillions on 22 Feb 2013 - 8:38am #

The guy who 'revolutionized' the 6th man-which of course is a back up, over arguably one of the 5 greatest NBA players to ever set foot on a court?

LeBron. By a mile.

Who's a better basketball player? It isn't LeBron's fault he hasn't played in 1200 games. The question does beg some debate but if I am going through the history of the NBA, and I have the second pick in the all time fantasy draft and I can draft any player to build my team around I'm taking LeBron, because its safe to assume MJ would go first.

In the same scenario, would you take Havlicek?

So far, LBJ almost averages a triple double. 27\7\7. Compared to John's 20\3\4.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

kareemabduljacobb on 22 Feb 2013 - 10:12am #

King James. Easily.

BROSEPH on 22 Feb 2013 - 10:30am #

Mr. Diebler was awesome to watch in high school.

northcampus on 22 Feb 2013 - 10:48am #

Two vastly different time periods, two vastly different players. It's much more convenient to instantly react and choose James because he plays in the present. Many of the people on this site probably never saw Lucas play (in person or on TV). Lucas is strictly a big man and James is a back court player. I would have loved to see James play at the college level to see how his individual talents stacked up against college players. Lucas could dominate at the college level while James never played a college game. Lucas won championships at every level he played while James has not. Both players needed more talented players around them to secure NBA titles. Lucas averaged a 20/20 for an entire season. The only thing more impressive to me is Oscar Robertson averaging a triple double for an entire season. I say Lucas over James.

rdubs on 22 Feb 2013 - 11:11am #

James has won titles at every level he played, he just skipped one level. Must have found a cheat code.

Also James can play all 5 positions at the highest level. I don't think I have ever seen anyone else do that. And likely never will.

BrewstersMillions on 22 Feb 2013 - 11:39am #

Maybe Magic, that's about it. That's why I hate the LeBron to Michael comparisons. They just aren't sound. Compare Bron to Magic and Kobe to Michael.

Of course, LeBron is playing in an era where positions aren't so defined like they used to be. Guys who are 7' aren't necessarily 5's. LeBron has the physical skills to guard (and shut down) an MVP in Derrick Rose in the ECF, and a year later shut down a perennial MVP candidate in Kevin Durant in the finals. Both guys will be HOF'ers, both guys play drastically different games, one is about 10 inches taller than the other and LeBron took both of their lunches.

Actually, LeBron has won at every level he's played. He won in high school, the NBA, and the Olympics.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 8:25pm #

He shut down Durant? Didn't Durant average 30pts on 51% shooting.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

BrewstersMillions on 23 Feb 2013 - 8:20pm #

What finals did you watch? When OKC was desperate for a bucket, Durant wasn't available for comment. LeBron took him away when it mattered and did what he wanted on the other side of the ball with Durant guarding him.

And seeing as though there is like 1 legit, actual back to the basket center in the NBA, yes, LeBron can play center if pressed into it.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Feb 2013 - 7:22pm #

You think he can play as a center at a high level? Please tell me that you're joking.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

rdubs on 22 Feb 2013 - 9:47pm #

He did in the playoffs last year.

AndyVance on 22 Feb 2013 - 12:30pm #

While I don't have the LeBron hate a died-in-the-wool Cavs fan would have, I still have to give this one to Jerry Lucas, and Kyle's front-page piece says it all:

The other basketball championship Lucas won during his career was a gold medal at the 1960 Rome Olympics, becoming the first basketball player to win championships at the high school, college, professional and Olympic level. Only two others have matched that feat.

Triv on 22 Feb 2013 - 2:23pm #

Do you really think Lebron wouldn't have won a title had the one and done rule been in effect when he came out?

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

AndyVance on 22 Feb 2013 - 2:53pm #

We'll never know. Ohio State has had lots of amazing players over the years who should have won a title by that logic (granted, none that I'd say are Lebron/Lucas caliber exactly), but winning the tournament today takes so many variables that I think it's far from a sure-thing that LeBron would have won an NCAA title in a single season.

Hey, and I give him all the props in the world - he's already had a Hall of Fame career and as others have noted, he looks like he's only getting better. But only three men in history have accomplished what Jerry Lucas has, and he was the first. That's good enough for me.

Chise47 on 22 Feb 2013 - 8:04pm #

'Melo did, is he as good as LeBron?

BuckeyeChief Mod on 22 Feb 2013 - 8:12pm #

Melo hasn't won an NBA title (though I hope he does soon).

"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"

No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.

gobucks96 on 22 Feb 2013 - 2:55pm #

winning at every level, Lucas...

WashingtonStateBuck on 22 Feb 2013 - 8:39pm #

As a Middletown High Alum, I am biased. But I have to go with Jerry Lucas. He won a title at every level.

Knarcisi on 22 Feb 2013 - 9:10pm #

Oscar Robertson?

tampa buckeye on 22 Feb 2013 - 9:25pm #

Mr triple double.

Hoody Wayes on 22 Feb 2013 - 9:36pm #

Born: Charlotte, TN

HS: Crispus Attucks (Indianapolis, IN)

tampa buckeye on 22 Feb 2013 - 9:24pm #

http://instagram.com/p/QF_g0-jDpJ/

Does Jerry have his own shoe?

Bottom line is Lebron makes Ohio State a "sexy" pick for a top recruit. Just like MJ did with North Carolina. Ohio State should ride the coat tails of LBJ to some titles.

BuckeyeChief Mod on 23 Feb 2013 - 6:43pm #

In all fairness, who did before Jordan? Bird, Magic and Dr J all wore the same.

"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"

No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.

tampa buckeye on 23 Feb 2013 - 10:17pm #

I had the black larry bird's back in the day. Magic had some god awful purple/gold/white converse that only a Lakers fan could love.

All I'm saying is Lebron maybe the closest thing to Jordan we have seen or will ever see. Cavs haters need to get over it. He tired to get it done in Cleveland.

Knarcisi on 22 Feb 2013 - 9:43pm #

Gotta be Lucas. HS, college, and pro all in OH ...

zacisone on 22 Feb 2013 - 9:49pm #

Jerry Lucas totally dominated the college game at OSU, sat out a year, then went to the Cincy Royals to team up with the Big "O" for 5-6 years, then went to the San Fran Warriors for several years and finished up in New York with the Knicks and an NBA Championship!

Who was better? Can't say. Two different types of players, playing 40 years apart. I know I did love watching Lucas!

Zacisone

cajunbuckeye on 23 Feb 2013 - 7:41pm #

Ohio's ultimate Mr. Basketball. The envelope,please. The winner is...Jerry Lucas. Dominate at all levels. Champion at all levels.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

steensn on 23 Feb 2013 - 8:29pm #

Why is this a question? Comparing LJ to MJ is a real question, Lucas isn't even in the picture in that type of convo...

bigbadbuck on 24 Feb 2013 - 2:55am #

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!!!

Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.

kareemabduljacobb on 24 Feb 2013 - 3:44am #

LBJ was also the first sophomore ever named USA Today 1st team All-American, making 1st team 3x as well as winning 3 state titles, Gatorade player of the year and Ohio's Mr. Basketball 3x as well as being the MVP in the Jordan Classic, Roundball Classic and McDonalds All-American games.

Not too mention he was probably better than 80% of the NBA today in HS alone... and pullin' off dunks like this in HS games that would have won the NBA dunk contests up until 15 years ago..

Or damn near pullin' off MJs famous FT line dunk (about a foot in front of where MJ took off) in an actual game without needing to get a running start...

lamplighter on 24 Feb 2013 - 10:29am #

No love for Jay Burson?

BuckeyeBoyer85 on 24 Feb 2013 - 10:49am #

Hard to compare eras, but the sheer force of nature that is LeBron James cannot be denied. If he continues to play at this level (or even get better?!!!) for the next 10 years, his numbers will be hard to argue. As an Ohioan, I am loyal to Lucas for what he did at OSU and dismissive of LeBron's public persona and shameful "Decision". Lucas=cooler person. LeBron=better player.

Wayne Woodrow Hayes

Knarcisi on 24 Feb 2013 - 11:23am #

I enjoy the debate, but think we have lost the framework of the question. It is Ohio's Mr. Basketball. Lucas, hands down. Starred and won championships for Ohio on all 3 levels. Now, Bron comes back at the end of his career and wins a championship for the lowly Cavs, and the city of Cleveland ... Interesting discussion. Intriguing as well, because you would think he would love to do this.