Buckeye Basketball
The Buckeye ballers currently sit at 17-4 (7-4 B1G). We have bad losses @Illinois and home against KU and #1 IU. We have hard fought losses @Duke by 5, @MSU by 3, and @ scUM by 2. Left on the schedule we have Northwestern twice, big road games vs. Wisky and IU, and home tilts vs. Illinois, Minny and MSU. If I was to prognosticate, my guess would be we finish 5-2 and finish tied for 3rd with MSU, behind IU and scUM. Clearly our team has some deficiencies. We need a better offensive flow. The dribble drive, with screens and hand-offs is nice for our athleticism but it doesn't improve our efficiency. Our defense is one of the best in the conference, but we have been torched by open shooters lately. The future for this team will depend on our ability to create an offensive identity, and keep our front court players out of foul trouble. Many teams have success in the NCAA tourney with strong guard play. We no-doubt have an excellent scorer (Thomas) and defender (Craft). With the craziness of upsets this year, I like our chances to make a run in the tourney. So for all you detractors who cite our lack of a second scoring option and the lackadaisical play by Williams and our frontcourt, please take it with a grain of salt. We arguably have the best combo of football and basketball in the nation this year (Florida, scUM, and Louisville can argue). I for one am happy with the state of the basketball program, seeing as we haven't won less that 20 games since Matta has been here. So before you bash our Buckeye ballers, be thankful for how far Matta has taken us.
We are at a plateau with Matta. Enjoy the view for what it's worth.
What expectations do you have for this basketball program? Do you expect us to be Duke year in and year out? Not gonna happen. We are a football school with an excellent basketball coach. What reasons do you have to assert that Matta has "peaked"? The man has won 20 games every year of his career. I, for one consider Matta one of the best coaches in the country. I mean hell look at his winning percentage and you think he has "peaked" no sir you are dead wrong.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
We will never win a championship with him. He has made a few final 4s with some exceptional talent in those years. That is as far as he takes us. Peaked. What are your expectations? Clearly just above average. No wonder you think the plateau is the peak.
That's your opinion. We haven't won a national title in over 50 years so judging Matta on that is just retarded. The man has done wonders for our program, and if you can't recognize that then I can't help you.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
How old are you? "retarded"? They should throw your ass off this site for being a child.
He called someone "idiotic" on another thread.
Clean it up before I start deleting...
"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"
No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.
Really? Now you sound like a child.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
My apologies for the use of that word. But I've heard much worse on this site, and "throwing my ass off the site" is a little extreme.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
Last year we were in the Final 4. We are a top 20 team this year.
I believe Matta has helped guide OSU to 3 Sweet 16's...2 Final 4's.... and played for all the Marbles once.....
Good one KNARCISI, it's CLEARLY JUST ABOVE AVERAGE.
I said his expectations were clearly above average. And that's where we currently are. Not what Matta has done or accomplished. Learn to read and comprehend before you call me out.
Not true. You said this team was average and middle of the pack in the best conference in the country. Not to mention you said Matta "peaked". That comment alone revokes your "basketball knowledge card".
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
Someone else said middle of the pack. Not me. Better go get your facts straight. And why do you and Optimistic have to lash out and defend to every person that makes a critical comment on here?
I apologize you didn't say middle of the pack. but you did claim Matta has peaked.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
I did. He's been a a few final 4s. That is an outstanding achievement but I thiink that's as far as he take us. That means he has peaked. Do you disagree?
Yea i disgree. I think as long as Matta has us winning 20 games every year, getting to FFs and competing for B1G titles then that is a peak I can live with. It's not easy to win it all. Look how long it took coach K to win his first. Tom Izzo is considered a great coach and he has ONE national title.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
I didn't ask if the peak was OK. I asked if you disagreed that this was it. If you don't think he wins us a championship, then you agree.
I cant predict the future, but i like our chances based on our past coaches. Obviously he has put us in the position to win a championship, and at OSU that is good enough for me. If it's not good enough for you then you need to go root for UK or Duke.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
He has already helped lead OSU to the National Championship Game. So it's possible he can do it again. That said, in a hypothetical scenario, we get back to another Nat. Champ Game, we could win it.
I see you are a bit fiesty. Sometimes it helps to remember you are on the internet, talking about sports.
What's your point?
We went to the Final 4 last year and we are top 20 this year. Here you are sounding like a spoiled OSU basketball fan.
so a year after making a Final 4.........
Matta can coach. The only potential deficiency I see is with staff recruiting. We miss Groce, although Jent and the others are no slouches necessarily.
It has not helped that Ohio has been largely void of elite BB talent for the past 1-2 years. That should change with the 2015 class.
Trey Burke would disagree
Burke is truly a definition of a diamond in the rough though. Kid had like 3 or 4 Major conference offers, and didn't even pick up Michigan until VERY late in the process. Can't blame Matta at all for this one, as he made the same evaluation as Coach K, Roy Willaims, Calipari, Pitino, and almost every other top tier coach in the country
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Oh I agree, but he has turned into a pretty elite guy
Burke was not recruited within the last 1-2 years. He was recruited 3 years ago, a year in which Ohio did have elite talent.
The recruiting is all relative to our success since Matta has been here. We have reeled in major recruits in the past so now some fans expect the Odens, Conleys and Turners with every class. Im just happy we even have the opportunity to land some of these guys. Really, the perception of our basketball program has increased ten-fold with Matta and it's largely due to recruiting. For the last two years we haven't gained the heralded classes of the last few years and everyone wants to rip our recruiting. We are not a traditional power in basketball, just convincing recruits to come here over IU, Duke, MSU, KU, UK, UNC and Many other basketball blue blood is an accomplishment in itself. Matta can coach and recruit.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
OSU loses a couple of tough games to tough teams and all of a sudden Matta isn't recruiting well and can't develop anybody and now he's peaked. This may be the second or third worst OSU team Matta has had, and it's still a top 20 team for sure, maybe even a top 15 team. If getting to the Final Four some years is "just above average", then pretty much every program is "just above average" at best.
Class of 2010.
It is kind of hard for any team to win when the refs dictate a game like that. Matta is a hell of a coach and recruiter. He has been at OSU for less than 10 years and has 2 final fours. That is quite the accomplishment and guess what, many of the best coaches took a long time before they won their first championship.
It took Jim Boeheim 27 years at Syracuse
It took the great Mike Krzyzewski 11 years at Duke
Tom Izzo actually took 6 years but hasn't won one since and hasn't been past the Elite Eight since 2010.
Plus you guys really should look at a few of the guys coming in over the next 2 years. Kameron Williams will be a pure scorer and very likely could replace LS jr as the starting 2. Marc Loving will probably battle Ross for the starting 4 spot unless Ross starts at the 3 in front of Sam. Then in 2014 I think we could be seeing a Kevin durant clone. Keita Bates-Diop is a long armed 6'7'' scorer. He looks like he could possibly grow another 2 inches by the time he shows up at OSU.
I don't get excited this year because after last year's final four and losing 2 really good starters, I didn't think they would be this good let alone any better. Relax a little and enjoy the good times. Trust me, these are some good times!
Thank You SM! Ive been trying to defend Matta and the program all night, but apparently it's not enough for some. Matta has a winning % that is on par with the best coaches in the country, yet without a National Title he "needs to soul search on the players he recruits" or "he has peaked" Its clearly a reflection on how the expectations have risen in some fans eyes.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
The OSU basketball team is above being a good team & are closer to being a very good team. Matta is a very good coach. To say he has reached his peak is totally Crazy. This team can compete & that my friends is saying a lot.
Exactly. If you know anything about this year in college basketball, it's that there are numerous teams with a shot to make a run. I'm not naive enough to think we are a great team, but we have the talent to make a run that's for sure.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
Thad Matta is an incredible coach. His issue is that he will always be compared to the football coach and that isn't fair. OSU has been a traditionally strong football school, and under JT and Urban's first season it has been no different. 1 NC 3 NCG and all that plus a undefeated first season by Urban. It is 10 times easier for Urban than Thad because of the name brand of Ohio State football. Thad has gotten us to 2 final fours and a NCG. Saying he has peaked is assanine. How many more wins would he need for us to be the champions? 1. If we were getting to consistent sweet 16s that's one thing, but if we're in final fours the next step isn't much further.
Agree 100%. Buckeyes are an annual top 10 program now thanks to Matta. I love our chances of a championship in the next 5 years because Thad is an intense competitor, he's bringing in phenomenal recruits, and he has learned a ton about managing championship caliber player development in the past 8 years.
That said, players still have to make plays when it matters.
Unfortuneatly, Matta may get run out of coaching due to health issues. His leg/back doesn't look good, he can barely stand in the second half of most games
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
We are a good basketball team just below the elite, btw there are no such things as bad losses to Indiana and Kansas. We will get a 3 to 4 seed when march rolls around and as long as we don't play teams with dominant big men we will go far. That's why we have had success against Michigan because they don't have a dominant big man.
There are no such things as "good losses". Good teams are measured by wins against quality teams...we only have tsun on our resume this year. The earlier remark about Matta being average is probably true. Outside of Sully's and Odom's one and out years, we really have nothing to show as measured by "great" years. After DT declares thihs team might be a double digit loss, middle of the pack team. Probably not Top 25 after cupcake part of season ends. Either not developing talent or not recruiting it.
What was Sully's one and out year?
2..my bad
Coming from someone who went to UD and suffered watching the "coaching" of Brian Gregory, OSU is very luck to have coach matta. The fact that we all expect OSU to make the final four every year is a testament to the job he has done.
It could be worse. We could be Kansas right now.
All that matters is a top 4 or 5 seed in March. And perhaps learning how to run a damn play out of bounds after a timeout (I'm talking to you, Jent). And rebounding. And, I don't know, getting your All-American at least a touch on offensive trips to open other things up.
Guess what? We went to the Final Four last year. Guess what else? We lost our two major point producers from a season ago, including a guy that was considered one of the best players in the nation. Guess what else? This is a down year/transition year/rebuilding year for the program....and we've still been ranked all year long and in the hunt for a conference championship in by far the best conference in the country. This is a down year for Ohio State basketball, folks. We get to hear people on here about to jump off the ledge and bitching about Thad Matta. Look at UNC, they're having a down year and have been outside the top 25 and getting steamrolled by people. UK? Outside the top 25 and had their fair share of struggles all year.
All of those losses you called "bad losses" are anything but. Every one of those was to a quality team. Thad's about to have this team that is in a down year still make the tourny, still make it to 20-25 wins and all of this coming against the no-question best conference in the country. Step off the ledge people! We found out very quickly this team was not going to be a national championship favorite, but is still a good team. We can't be the favorite to win the title every year. I still think, based on the way Thad's teams have historically gotten better toward the end of the season most years, this team could be very formidable in the tournament and could make a run. They can play defense well enough to at least hang in with anyone and give themselves a chance.
You do realize there are like 3 or 4 McDonald's All-American's on this team? That they haven't really developed yet is one of two things (or both): 1) They were overrated coming out of h.s. and Thad didn't recruit all that well despite what their rankings in recruiting might say. or 2) They had the potential coming out of h.s. but Thad and/or the staff hasn't developed them all that well.
I don't disagree about the bad losses...minus Illinois. The point is this team has closed out a top 20 team exactly one time. 1-5. 3 to 4 of those games were there for the taking. I think the point people are making is this team isn't getting better in closing out games against the top competition. The same issues persist. You'd expect some kind of improvement, but the 5 spot is inconsistent at best. You MIGHT get double digits from a guard but you never know. Sometimes Thompson and/or LZS will show up, sometimes they won't. Scott has had a very short lease since the MSU game after coming into his own and playing 20+ minutes off the bench. The lack of effort and focus yesterday didn't match Tuesday night and it showed. The defense, their supposed strong suit, was pretty pathetic. Uncontested jumpers left and right, not boxing out. I know the talent isn't there, but they didn't even play all that well given what we saw Tuesday. Inconsistency is frustrating and that's why most fans are frustrated.
Firstly, anyone with eyes can tell that Amir Williams was indeed overrated. 2nd, Williams and Scott are halfway through their sophomore season and are showing signs of development (Shannon Scott this year compared to last year is markedly better). It's not fair to treat these guys as though they're wrapping up their senior seasons. Not all players Thad recruits are one and dones. 3rd, Deshaun Thomas was the 3rd McD's AA on this team and he's one of the best players in the conference. This team is a work in progress. The core of the team is sophomores. Those sophs are going to be very good players going forward. This team has flaws in that it has trouble scoring the ball. We don't have pure scorers on this team outside of Thomas.
I wouldn't go so far as to say the defense was not pathetic yesterday (and yesterday is the only game you can even make an argument for bad defense with this season's team), I saw numerous possessions where we really played fantastic D and Indiana just made a great play or just made a tough shot. Zeller was well defended multiple times and was just throwing garbage up at the rim (don't get me wrong, he's very good at doing so) while completely off balance and getting it to drop. There were a lot of "well, nothing you can do about that" type of plays that I saw yesterday. Indiana is very good, and based on everyone that's watched them this year, the consensus is they played their most complete game of the season. The 5 spot is an issue and will continue to be an issue. Amir Williams, believe it or not, has progressed very much from last year (and even the beginning of this year). Williams was horrible coming in, but was going to be a project all along. We have a serious deficiency at the 5 and that's because Amir is a project and Rav is what he is, limited in both size and athleticism.
Illinois. Kansas. 2nd half at Duke. All not very good defensive efforts.
I saw at least 8-10 uncontested jumpers where an OSU defender kind of just stood there or even backed off. Sheehey, Oladipo, Hulls. Mid-range to 3 pointers that were just WIDE OPEN. I don't know if that was the gameplan or what.
I'd say the "core" of the team is D.T., Craft, and LZS - all juniors. I know there are 4 sophomores, but those 3 generally account for 50-65% of the offense.
Look at the teams listed there though. Those are all good teams and Duke, Kansas and Indiana are 3 of the very best in basketball. Indiana is the first team we've allowed to shoot over 50%. While I wish we could've played better and won some of those games I think it's also fair to give some credit where credit is due for those teams who played very well against us. Those are very good teams.
I'd consider Craft and Tank to be the key players for this team...but going forward the sophs are the core of the team. This team will go so far as the sophs progress both this year and in future seasons. I truly think the've all shown signs of growth, but they're by no means finished products.
My overall point is, we're very lucky that even in a down year we're still a top 25 team that contends for their conference title and still has the potential to make a deep run in the tourny. Not everyone can claim that. Not even the bluebloods like UK and UNC this year.
Someone please fill me in: What was the expectation for the team this year?
The preseason ranking was WAY too high. Personally my expectations were not very high. I believed this was a Top 25 team, but I expected the team to struggle to score but would be competitive, especially on the defensive end. Make no mistake though, losing Sullinger and Buford (although he was SO frustrating to watch as a fan) left huge holes on this team. But look, this is an NCAA tourney team, but I don't know what else can be said. And I'm not pissed about it. It is what it is.
Some people act like they don't remember 2007-2008. Oden, Conley, and Cook left early and Ron Lewis graduated. 2008 was a down year where the Buckeyes finished 5th in the Big Ten, but they still won the NIT tourney. And how about 2008-2009? OSU finished 5th in the Big Ten again, but made the NCAA tourney as an 8th seed and exited in the 1st round, getting beat in double OT by 9th seed Siena.