As of last year most of us seemed to figure that Deshaun coming back to tOSU for at least one more season was a good thing, and weren't too surprised when he chose to come back. Last night I was looking through ESPN (I know, I know) and found Chad Ford's big board for the NBA.
Many of the names you would expect to be high were with Nerlens Noel being the top overall player. (Sidenote: For some reason I really don't think Noel that great as a player, but I digress) It took me a few pages before I found Deshaun and he is currently sitting at #69, which would place him as an undrafted free agent. Chad Ford's prediction is Second round/Undrafted Free Agent.
Couple things: 1. I was surprised he would be rated this low with his pure scoring ability. 2. Do you guys think he leaves after this year, assuming he stays pretty consisten with where he is?
EDIT: for those with an insider account:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/top100/_/year/2013/set/3
DT is a really good player, but he isn't the most athletic guy. He's like a poor man's James Harden. If he had a little more bounce/agility he'd probably be a 1st rounder. If he keeps improving his 3 pt shooting, he'll get drafted by someone.
God damn that's a pretty f*cking good milkshake! I don't know if it's worth five dollars, but it's pretty f*cking good.
-Vincent Vega
As close as he came to leaving last year I'm sure he's gone after this year if he keeps scoring 20 ppg. NBA teams are probably worried because he's a bit of a tweener. At 6' 7" can he play the 4 in the NBA? Is he quick enough to defend the athletic freaks that play the 3 in the NBA? His ball handling is not ideal to play the wing either. That said, I'd be shocked to see him fall in the draft or go undrafted. A team will see his scoring ability and take a flier on him to play some pick and pop ball
I'd agree here. He's definitely talented enough from an offensive standpoint, but I don't think he's big enough to guard an NBA 4 or quick enough to guard the top NBA 3s. He's gotten much better defensively, but rarely is he asked to guard a big-time scorer on the opposing team.
Also, I think there will be some concern over his maturity. I really like what I've seen from him over last year and so far this year in that respect, but that was a BIG negative for me his freshman year and I'm guessing that NBA teams will consider that.
I love DT, but I am concerned about the tweener thing. IMHO, that's hurt Derrick Williams and Mike Beasley, who were both great in college but have had a tough time transitioning to the pros. In any case, I am going to enjoy every minute of DT while we have him.
I didn't think he should have gone last year but I was surprised he came back! The way he was talking and the possibility that he could have gone at least 2nd round with a possible first round would have made him jump.
but seriously though. DT can score, no doubt, but in bunches early most of the time and he wears down fast. I don't think the sole reason we don't see him taking the last shot has anything to do with the team not getting him the ball. I think he lacks energy enough to work the whole 40 minutes and gets tired. His shot gets lazy, he doesn't try to get open all the time. He isn't more aggressive in asking for the ball which he should be. He doesn't beat his man off the dribble despite that he could if he worked a bit more at it. Plus for someone as good as he is at getting a good read on rebounds, he is lazy at defending and going for more rebounds.
I think if he put in some more effort in getting open for shots and better defense, he would succeed at the NBA. but until then, most scouts won't see him as a good pick. Plus him being a tweener (too small for PF, too slow for SF) doesn't help either!
I've looked at several mock drafts, and without knowing their reliability or credibility, every one I've seen has him listed in the 2nd round.
The questions I would have though, if he comes back, does his stock go up, down, or stay the same?
He'll get drafted, not lottery but I think a late first round pick would be good. I had questions about his mental focus, and his ability to carry the load, and he has more then answered those. He's not athletic enough to be a lottery pick.
DT will pry return.. where hes projected to be drafted goes to foreign players who just get left overseas for a few years or their whole career. I don't.think he'll get drafted and.should.come.back next yr
By the time the draft comes around, Thomas will be late a first or early second round guy. His draft stock is taking a hit right now because he plays on a team with zero consistent scoring threats outside himself, and yet he is still one of the top scorers in the nation. His athleticism isn't optimal but his ability to score overshadows that. Barring injury, he will probably be one of the most impactful Buckeye players in the NBA since Michael Redd.
I think DT will have a tough decision to make at the end of this season. I really don't see him as a 1st round pick unless he finishes strong and puts together a nice tourney run and maybe leads the Buckeyes to the Elite 8 or Final 4. If he struggles a bit against better competition down the stretch and say tOSU gets bounced in 2nd round of tourney he may want to come back since the rest of the squad minus Rav will be returning. I love DT and believe he can be a solid scoring threat in the NBA but with his lack of athleticism compared to most NBA players his size I truly find it hard to believe anyone will take him in the 1st round. I know Sully had some injury concerns but damn he dropped to 21 in the 1st round and teams will be concerned that DT may be too slow to be a 3 and not big enough to be a 4. I think he takes a shot at the NBA draft and gets taken in early to mid 2nd round because I'm a homer who thinks he will finish strong and lead the Buckeyes to a solid showing in the Big Dance.
How Ohio State finishes out has nothing to do with where he will go in the draft. Sometimes a team's success can call attention to someone who was otherwise flying under the radar -- e.g., Mike Conley -- but DT's name is already out there among the scouts. Ohio State is in many ways a one-man team in that no one else can score with any kind of regularity, which means defenses can focus on Thomas and make things very difficult for him. What could help Thomas and his draft stock is the emergence of a second or third scoring option. That would enable him to show his versatility. Right now, because we have no one who can make threes, Thomas has to basically play like a guard, which he isn't.
If DT were to carry tOSU on his back and lead the Buckeyes to a Final Four that would absolutely increase his draft stock. When you are playing at a high level against high level competition in the tourney and have plenty of pro scouts and national media watching that can only help your value. I was just suggesting a scenario that could affect his decision at the end of the season.
It didn't help Sullinger. We made it to the final four last year and his draft stock dropped. All I'm saying is that Thomas is going to be a high pick either way. Ohio State could tank in the tournament and he will fine. We could do great, he'll be equally fine. First round probably, maybe second. He is the best scorer in the best conference. He is junior who has proven he has an amazing skill set. People can say he is unathletic or not the right size. That is all neither here nor there. The proof is in the pudding.
Sullinger dropped because of his back being red flagged by NBA doctors, not his production. Had they not said he had a bulging disk he would have gone higher. If your a middling team you can't take a risk while a consistent team that is simply aging like the Celtics has the luxury of allowing him to develop.
It wasn't just the medical exam. It was his performance in the combine coupled with his struggles against athletic centers and power forwards over the course of his career at Ohio State. Sullinger muscled his way to most of his points in college against undersized and underdeveloped college forwards and centers. When he went up against defenders with NBA size, he performed considerably worse. That is why NBA teams were not high on him and also why his 15 points a game and 8.8 rebounds a game during the tournament last year didn't help his cause one way or another. The point I'm making is that Thomas is already a known commodity. Scouts know what he is capable of. Remember last year in the tournament: 19.2 points, 7.8 boards? That is why he doesn't have to carry a very one dimensional team to the late stages of the tournament to improve his draft stock. It is already in good shape. Whether or not Ohio State goes far into the tournament will not change that. You can ask William Buford which is more important: combines, career numbers, or the tournament -- he averaged a very respectable 13.2 points and 5.8 rebounds on a team that came with a few points of going to the championship game. Didn't help him one bit.
@bhartman: Ohio State plays against high level competition all the time: Duke, Kansas, more than half of the schools in the Big Ten. Pro scouts are watching all of these. Take also into account the fact that Deshaun Thomas is a junior. Scouts are basically going to have three years of tape to watch. That's a lot of games. 3 or 4 in the tournament will not signficantly affect their projections of what Thomas' true abilities are.
Okay I can agree with this but doing work in March is slighty different than regular season games against top tier competition. The fact scouts have 3 years of tape is a very valid point but I still think some big performances in the tourney can slightly elevate his stock because that may stick out in the minds of some coaches because it just happened a few months prior to the NBA Draft.
I just re-read what I wrote earlier. I pretty much gave this team 3 or 4 games in the tournament, which we all know is by no means a given. Maybe that was just wishful thinking. But to your point, I can also agree that a big performance could sway someone in the front office to push Thomas around on their draft board but I still maintain it wouldn't be a scout. I think with Mike Conley shot up the board because scouts only had one year of tape on him and nowhere within that did he display the high level of play that he brought to the tournament. Thomas was one of the leading scorers and last year's tournament, so people know what he is capable of. But you are right to say that a big run could generate some hype and someone might buy into it.
I was shocked DT came back this year. Most of the year last year he was pretty open about leaving after the 2011-2012 season. I agree with many of the above points, but know that DT was expecting to be gone by now. I can't say whether the draft projections will influence his decision to come back, only that many within the program were surprised to have him this year. Thank God he decided to come back, think about our offense without him!
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/
Draft express has him #49, mid 2nd round
The NBA is about scoring Defense is optional.
Thomas will do just fine in the NBA as a 3 IMO. He will be a mismatch those same athletic slender slashing freaks will have to D up on Thomas on the post and he was scoring over 6'10 guys at Wisky last night
THIS
Not for the best teams. Most of the premier NBA teams play lockdown defense.
DT may not be your typically athletic NBA wingman, but I predict him having a similar impact in the league as Michael Redd. Both are lefty, pure scorers with very similar size. Redd was also a mid-2nd round draft pick who wasn't known as a leaper or speed demon and he average 21+ points for 6 straight years in his prime.
I'd say that DT's game is more like Paul Pierce. He's got this awkward ease of scoring that is just simply effective despite not being the most athletic guy, & PP still scores over guys like LeBron even when they know what's coming. I just think DT needs to refine his strengths & play crafty & he'll be a great rotation/6th man type of player in the NBA.
"Leave...Your...Mark..."
Firstly, he's gone. Secondly, would be shocked if he doesn't work his way into the first round. Guy can flat out score, regardless of athleticism. Almost uncanny ability to get to the ball and score. Very quick release and can create his own shot. D getting better too. Lots of time left in the season. Conley literally made himself a top 10 pick in March.
Well prepare to be shocked. DT is a great college player, but he just isn't athletic enough to crack the 1st round.
...sounds a lot like what people said about Sully
Not really. Projections had him going in the 1st round pretty much from the time he stepped foot on campus.
People said he was a great college player but lacked the athleticism to play in the NBA, he is proving them wrong
SE, if you are such an expert, make some points other than not being athletic enough. Guy was born to score. See Mark Aguire, Adrian Dantley.
Thomas is a baller. The guy falls out of bed ready to score. Have truly enjoyed watching him these past few years.
Its probably been brought up in this thread already but I just keep thinking back to this time last year when there were a significant number of people saying the DT was the better NBA prospect than Sully.
One thing I will say is that I think DT can succeed in the NBA for the same reason that Sully can. He is smart and knows how to play the game. Based off of his shooting range, I think DT gets drafted. Maybe not first round, I don't have a feel for how NBA scouts rate him, but definitely drafted. Heck Diebler got drafted and Thomas is athletic as Deibs.
Chad Ford answered a question about DT in his chat yesterday.
Danny (Cleveland)
Please explain to everyone Deshaun Thomas won't be that good in the NBA
Chad Ford
He can really score. He might be the best pure scorer in the NCAA right now. NBA teams are always interested in players like that. The problem for NBA scouts is that he's not a great athlete, plays no defense, is a tweener on the offensive end and is already 22 years old. Could I see a team taking him in the late first or second round. Yes. Like I said, great scorers always come at a premium, but he's not quite the prospect his college stats suggest.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/46923/nba-insider-chad-ford
Tweener ... as in versatile? He can play outside, from the post, and can score from offensive boards in cleaning up the garbage with an uncanny nose for the ball and the hoop. I call that a strength rather than a weekness. He's every good offensively as his stats suggest. Points and rebounds are unmistakable facts. His defense has improved tremendously, and not sure when defense was tagged a premium for NBA prospects. Like I said, early in the year, and think his stock will rise. Again, no one on the face of teh erath had Conley as a top 10, let alone a draft candidate at the end of Feb. Mr. Ford might be an expert, but that argument doesn't hold water to me.
Just from the eye test, DT seems like he will be a 2nd round steal for someone. I think the only thing holding him back from being much higher, albeit on Chad Ford's (who always seems to have a questionable BB) list, is a more polished post game. Since hes going to probably be a matchup problem for a lot of defenders, he has the polished mid-to-outside game to befuddle bigger defenders, now he just needs to polish his post game for the smaller defenders which he will see a bunch of with a lot of teams playing smaller 3G lineups. I think the most underrated thing that no one talks about much is his great body control and ability to slip between defenders off the dribble and mostly in the air. He will definately find a home somewhere, pure scorers will always find a home, not volume scorers who score due more to the volume of shots they launch, but a guy who seems to get the roll, or the bounce on the sometimes not so pretty looking shots.
Thomas is a great post player. Go back and watch what he did against Wisconsin against guys much bigger than him, and then after that, go back and watch his first two years at Ohio State. He lived in the post. He has a different role this year because we have no one who can shoot from the outside (and make it) with any kind of consistency besides DT. So if anything his success this year is just a testament to his amazing versatility to thrive from the outside as well as from the inside.
And I'm really not sold on all this talk about Thomas not being athletic. He is the leading scorer on an extreme high level division one college basketball team. I think he has a style that is different, kind of throwback, but I've never seen any data regarding how fast he is or how high he can jump that would warrant any claim about his athleticism. KIthink this year he has actually had some pretty authoritative dunks that have shown glimpses of athleticism that he doesn't necessarily utilize because that is just not the way he plays the game.
I really think a lot of players greatly improve their draft status come tourny time if he is able to put the buckeyes on his back and have a great tourny showing i see first round for him if he buckles under the pressure and has a bad tourny i can see late second or free agent.
Michigan Sucks!
I think he's gone after this season, and I certainly envision him getting drafted. He should make a great 6th man off the bench in the NBA, with the ability to come in and score right away. NBA teams love guys like that. Not only can he score, but he's a very good rebounder, especially on the offensive end. He'd be a lottery pick if he was a better defender (which has gotten better), and could make plays for others, which he really needs to work on.
It's rare to find guys that when watching them play, you can't tell if they're 0-5 from the field, or 5-5.... he's just that confident in his ability. His shooting range coupled with his improving post game is just too much to pass up IMO.
I'm calling BS on these draft projections. He is the best pure scorer in NCAA and I haven't seen anyone really shut him down yet. Yes his defense is at best average but this is the NBA and I think he hasn't hit his ceiling on defensive side. He reminds me of Antwan Jamison in a lot of ways. (A junk scorer that will give you 14-18 ppg) DT will be fine in the NBA and I'd take hime in the top 15 picks and would love to have him with the Cavs.
The Cavs would be a great fit for DT. He could come off the bench and give them some much needed offense from the wing. I think the fact he is a tweener SF/PF because of his size, speed, and athleticism really puts off a lot of coaches and scouts. If he does last to the 2nd round the Cavs better snag him!
I think Thomas will carve himself out a nice niche in the NBA as a guy that can come off the bench and score in spurts. Seems like a perfect San Antonio pick at the bottom of the first. Guy can just put the ball in the bucket.
Regarding the original post on Noel, he has no offense but he basically won Kentucky that game against Ole Miss the other night with his defense. He swatted two dunks and a layup carrying 4 fouls in a tight game. It was impressive.