These guys are both very good, but we can only start one. The stats for them are:
Craft: 9.2 points on 37.5% shooting, 3.7 AST/TO, 2.9 rebounds, and 1.6 steals in 30.1 minutes.
Scott: 6.8 points on 48.9% shooting, 5.0 AST/TO, 2.1 rebounds, and 2.6 steals in 20.0 minutes.
If you only look at the numbers, then starting Scott is a no brainer. But when you consider the fact that Scott was able to pad his stats in garbage time, and that Craft contributes to our defense in ways that don't show up on the stat sheet, it makes the decision much tougher. Thoughts?
Craft is the leader of the team, controls tempo and attitude. Scott comes in and does his thing and isn't quite the quarterback that Aaron is. If that makes sense. Craft brings a bit of cohesiveness. He is not afraid to bark at guys that may be underperforming. Shannon isn't to that point yet as he is just coming under control of his own game.
Agree.
Scott is a talented athlete who has not - correct me if I am wrong - been involved in any substantive way in a meaningful game in his time at tOSU.
Craft is a proven, high IQ, complete basketball player who has had a huge role in every meaningful win over the past 2 years.
He had 20 minutes against duke and 16 in last year's sweet 16 but thats the extent of his meaningful playing time.
craft is the leader, the quarterback on the floor, play him. get scott on the floor as much as possible. kind of like how matta is doing things, especially when i remind myself of the randy ayers era.
Craft is a no brainer, not to say that Scott will not be great when Craft leaves and he's the leader of the team.
The Buckeyes are actually playing a deep rotation for once; 8 guys averaging 15+. Never thought I'd see the day, although it isn't the BIG season yet
Scott is tremendous at distributing the ball and I think he has the higher ceiling of the two. If he can keep his shooting percentage up, he will be scary good.
I think Matta has done a good job of managing them both. I like that when they're both on the floor, that Scott primarily handles the ball.
If Scott played the whole 40 minutes, this is what his stat line would be for one game (yes I did just double all of his averages haha):
13.4 points, 10 assists, 2 TOs, and 5.2 steals
He did not have a good stat line against Duke, which tells me he's not ready to be a superstar quite yet. Key word: yet
Disagree that we can only start one. They've been on the court together plenty. Craft, Scott, Smith, Thomas, Rav. Of course, that's assuming Scott maintains his high level of play against bigger fish
Personally I'm not a fan of playing them both at the same time because we then have 2 guards on the court who aren't good shooters, especially from deep.
Agree.
I still see Scott as Craft's backup. Everything Scott can do (that Craft can't), can be better delivered by L Smith. Especially when S Thompson is in (despite UNC Asheville game) we already have 1 position that we don't score from.
I see both of your points. But in my opinion Scott looks like the most complete player at the moment. He has more general offense than Thompson minus the freak athlete - both good defenders. Ross is a liability on defense but is an offensive weapon. I think Scott has the most upside on the full court at the moment. I hope these guys all push each other for pt hard. It means we're going be great in March
It's early but Scott is shooting 50% from 3point land and 48% overall. His weakness would be at the line where you want your guards shooting better than his current 63%.
What's much more interesting is what happens NEXT year between these two.
Assuming Thomas leaves early, we'll have everyone back except Thomas and Ravenel for the 2013-2014 season.
PG: Aaron Craft / Shannon Scott
SG: Lenzelle Smith / Kameron Williams / Amedeo Delle Valle
W: LaQuinton Ross / Sam Thompson / Marc Loving
C: Amir Williams / Trey McDonald
So who starts?
1. Aaron and Lenzelle are unquestioned starters on this team.
2. A big guy has to start so give it to Amir.
3. Add in a couple of wings and you have LaQuinton and Sam to round out the First 5.
But that means you're leaving one of the fastest, best distributing point guards in the nation languishing on the bench. So do we start a small lineup instead and leave Sam on the bench? Shannon, Aaron, Lenzelle, LaQuinton, Amir?
Thad has a huge job figuring out how to juggle Lenzelle, Aaron and Shannon right now and all of next year too.
I can't see starting both Craft and Thompson, unless Thompson develops a jumper. We already have a guy who has trouble putting the ball in the basket in Amir, we can't start 2 more. I honestly think next year Craft shoul not start. As strange as it sounds I can't see Scott sitting on the bench for another year.
EDIT: Unless loving steps in and can start right away
What has Lenzelle done to be an unquestioned starter? Personally, I would expect more from a starting SG at the D1 level than what he's giving. The Buckeyes starting backcourt is pretty weak when you compare to other starting backcourt's of top teams in the country. Neither Craft or Lenzelle take the ball to the basket when the opportunity is there and I bet between the two of them they don't shoot more than 5-6 free throw attempts per game!
Sorry I accidentally down voted this guy can someone cancel me out please?
NM. Didn't realize the dates of the posts. Oops.
@Themostbrain Many in the program assume that Q is gone after this year. He certainly would benefit substantially from coming back and working further on his defense. If I had to guess though on a starting 5 (with Q coming back) I would guess Craft, Smith, Thompson, Q, and Amir. Scott is my favorite player on the team, but Matta really likes him coming off the bench. If Q jumps, then I'd guess Craft, Scott, Smith, Thompson and Amir. This lineup would be a great pressing lineup!
Wow I think that's a really bad decision. I would say he's probably our third best player right now (Behind DT and Smith) and he needs one more year of development. He will get embarassed defensively if he makes the jump now.
I agree 100%. Q got a lot of attention and praise at the Lebron academy over the summer, and has a lot of potential. He's coming along, but is certainly not ready defensively to play in the nba. I think in another year or two, he could be a late first rounder though. Let's hope he follows DT's example and sticks around another year.
Not a terrible problem to have. I do believe Scott has the better upside, but as of right now, I think Craft is just in a slump. In the beginning of the year Craft was shooting the ball well. Plus, we have not played very good competition thus far, with the exception of the Duke game. When the B1G season arrives we should have a better answer to the question. Hopefully Scott and Craft will both push each other to continue to get better.
I agree Scott has better upside and his jump shot seems to be coming along. Craft is the team leader and controls the tempo on both ends of the floor when he is out there because of his stellar defense. I love what Scott brings to the table and I believe the kid will become a star for tOSU over the next few seasons. So far so good for Shannon but lets see what the kid does against more pressure when the B1G season rolls along. Also Kansas has some tough guards so it will be interesting to see what he can do this weekend when revenge is on the mind of Buckeye nation.
I like both Craft and Scott, but I like them where they are. I think Craft, Smith and Thomas play best off eachother just like i think Scott, Ross, and Amir play best when they are on the court together
I think the current mix of Craft for 30 minutes, Scott for ~20-25 is pretty good. Basically playing them together while Lenzelle is at the wing or on the bench. The team is getting used to running the floor more and more when Scott is in the game. And the defense is crazy.
9 assists, 6 steals, 1 turnover against asheville, in 21 minutes. He also scored 7 points on only 4 FG attempts. He basically went for a steal any time a guard was dribbling the ball on his side of the court. BTN honored him by making Laquinton the 6th man of the game for his worst game of the year lol.
If we keep having games where (Assists + Steals) > (Turnovers + fouls) I think we will win a lot of games.
Scott is the better player and will only get better as time goes.
Craft is at his potential, nice player, but thats it.
Craft by not being able to score is killing this team.
Scott>Craft
Craft shooting 38% for the season. Just saying.
edit: 36% after the Kansas game
Craft I believe goes from a very good player (last year knowing his role) to the most Over Rated Player (In his new role) in the country.
He has one of the ugliest shots and after he knocks one down he fools himself thinking he can do it again. His new game has taken away everything he did well before. Against subpar comp he looks ok but anytime he is up against a legit D1 guard he is going to fail this year.
Ready for you plate of crow WayCracken? (and others....)
Craft has regressed offensively...you cant honestly disagree
I think we all would agree.
He is best when he plays the point, not the 2 guard. Not sure why he and Scott have evolved over the past 5 games to where Scott brings it up and Craft waits up the floor. Scott is great on the break, and Craft is good with the ball in the half court. A Williams is the only one settiing screens except for Ravenal, who sets them at 15 and 20 feet from the bucket. Scott ignores them completely (tjhough they aren't in together often) and Craft uses the screen about half the time coming back the other way which only gives him about a step on the defender.
Scott is better in half court. Craft turns the ball over too often and he can not get in the lane nearly as well as Scott.
^^^^^ AGREED ^^^^^
I hate to say it but I think we may have seen the best of Craft and he may have reached his ceiling. I say the Buckeyes have the potential to be dangerous if Scott were to take over at pg right now...he's more creative with the ball in his hands, drives better to the basket and can kick out to shooter's like Thomas, Smith & Ross(Craft doesn't do this well in my opinion), has more potential offensively than Craft, and is pretty good on defense. I'd like to see a starting five of the following before conference play starts: Scott - Smith - Ross - Thomas - Williams...the biggest issue I see with this lineup though is no offensive firepower coming off the bench in Craft, Thompson and Ravenal...I guess Thompson could replace Ross in the starting lineup.
Craft's only contribution to the team right now is defense and I think Scott has closed the gap on that side of the ball. The halfcourt and transition offense both flow a lot better with Scott at the point. I understand the desire to have both out there, but Craft can't shoot, at all. So why would we have him playing the 2.
I think some people have just developed an affinity for Craft (understandable) that makes it difficult to be realistic about his current production. His confidence is low. His decision-making has, at times, been poor. And his backup is brimming with confidence.
People are very irrational when it comes to Craft. The fail to see the facts because they like him as a person.
In Craft's defense, he's had better offensive players(Suillinger & Buford) around him the 1st two season's as a Buckeye and whatever offense he provided was a bonus. With the lack of offensive talent around him now, Craft's offensive shortcomings are being exposed!
Look, neither guy is a very good shooter. However, I trust Scott WAY more on layups or 5 footers over Craft. AC is, wow get this, 19-50 inside the arc this year. That is flat out pathetic. He gets too out of control when he does decide to go in and drive. Craft has the edge on free throw % and on-the ball defense but that's about it. Scott is putting up similar #'s to what Craft had a year ago...and he's doing it in 10 less minutes per game. Scott has an extra gear driving to the basket and in the open court. He's shooting better, albeit still not very well. He also has half as many turnovers. It's time for Scott to start playing 25-30 minutes a game.
Good points, and it is hard to argue the fact that Craft is in a real bad place right now.
But you also have to remember that they are doing different things with different running mates. Take out all the easy buckets, steals etc. in garbage time the first 8 games and the stats would not be nearly as disparate. Also, I can recall a number of times where Craft fed Scott, but none where Scott fed Craft. Craft does not help us when he is the 2 guard. Maybe he should platoon in with A Williams, since he fed Sullinger so well and the big that he plays with mostly (Ravenal) likes to get his inside moves off the dribble. Maybe S Thompson should be encouraged to play near the post when Craft is in instead of out on the perimeter.
God, looking back at this thread is kind of eye opening. Please don't give up on our players you guys.
Well, it looks like some thought Q was our 3rd best player and would be NBA bound after this year. It seems to go both ways in terms of over and under expectations.