When the offense is struggling you can't leave one of your top scoring threats (Ross) on the bench. This HAS to be the year you finally develop your bench. Every year Izzo plays guys like Ross, who he knows will make mistakes and may cost him an early game or 2 but will be so much better and another huge weapon later in the year. Your reluctance to trust and play these second tier guys has been the one and only valid knock on you. Please play Ross and McDonald in meaningful minutes. Over the last few years nobody else has left McDonald All Americans on the bench for most or their Freshman and Sophomore seasons like you have. Tonight we showed our starters (with excepting of Thomas) are below average shooters so please free up Ross. I agree D has to come first but you need your top 2 scoring threats in the game together a lot more. I know Ross isn't one of the top 5 defenders on the team but we'll need his points to out score the better Big 10 teams. Tonight we looked like Florida St of the last few season: Great D but a shooting percentage well under 40%. I love Thad and he's a great coach, my favorite, but as a season ticket holder who watches almost every minute of all the games we play against bad teams early in the year I've never understood the how he hasn't played these blue chip kids more early and almost not at all once Big 10 season rolls along.







My suggestion to Thad: Tell Craft and Scott to learn to shoot if they're going to decide to just not even pass it to Thomas when we're down on the road
Yup. If Craft is shooting well, he can go for 20 tonight. He and Scott need to consistently make their pull up jumpers, because Duke was not going to let Thomas be free on any of those screen rolls in the 2nd half.
This team will be much better by March.
I agree with playing ross more. Having said that our defense is tough n will win us a lot of games maybe not against the number 2 team in the country with the top center ( sorry zeller) but I think this teAm will be good once rotation is set with ross more. I remain optimistic abt this season just stinks we r prob top ten in country but 3 or 4 in r league. In thad I trust
O'Deez330
stark county football
Agree with this 100 %. Matta also has to learn to make in game adjustments. How many times have people said this? We continue to kill first half momentum once adjustments are made at the half. I never wanted to agree with it but the "Matta is not a good in-game coach" train is picking up steam
Thompson has trouble drawing iron.
Note to Thad: Grumble, grumble, grumble. Rawr!
The offense is going to be a struggle for most of the year I think. We just don't have enough guys that can shoot well consistently. I don't know what it is with this team, we always seem to grab momentum and then give it right back (this happened in the tournament last year quite a bit even in the games that we won)
Good game. Craft struggled mightily tonight on the offensive end. Wasn't sharp with anything. Biggest problem? Lenzelle is our #2 offensive option. Not where I'd want to hang my hat. Played hard and we'll keep improving. Liked what I saw out of extended minutes with Ross, Scott, and Williams.
Thad left Ross on the bench last week in that blow-out until it was under 8 minutes in the 1st half and we had a huge lead... tonight he got decent 1st half minutes only because of foul trouble. Did you notice he didn't get back in until the last few minutes of the game, even with all the offensive struggles we had that 2nd half?
D. Anthony
Please forward your concerns to Thad Matta @ matta.5@osu.edu
One things that concerns me is that Matta never has a deep bench. Tonight it showed where we can be exposed but a learning lesson for the coach and players.
Ohio State's band SLAUGHTERED Michigan's band. If this were a football game, it would have been Florida State vs. Savannah State. - SB Nation following OSU vs. UM 2012
Did you just put Matta's email address on a blog? That may be something people can find themselves - but that's a pretty lame thing to do. Lot's of people read this blog - not all of them are stable...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Some of them might live in a stable.
You can find anyone's OSU email address unless they've asked for it to be removed.
https://directory.osu.edu/findpeople.php
Yeah it's nothing new. Coaches don't check their @osu.edu emails. If you really wanted to find the email he checks, you could.
It isn't great to lose to Duke, but it will help this young team grow and get ready for the Big Ten season. Plus, I like what Coach Matta did in the first half with Craft and Thomas out with foul trouble, he used the bench and got our bench players valuable playing time. Once Ross get more confident in his shot and defense. Watch out for Ohio State in the Big Ten and Tournament seasons.
Agreed... But he used the bench because he had to. No coach would leave those guys out their with 2 fouls relatively early in the 1st half. I wanna see them get time when it's not forced and continued into the 2nd half, especially when we couldn't score and desperately needed a spark.
D. Anthony
Williams was fantastic!!!!
Feel bad for Craft - he has never come up short before in a big game --- and he was puny tonight
The Scott experiment was a bust ... let him transfer if he is not content with 4 minutes at the end of the 1st half to rest Craft. He has a low basketball IQ; his shots are from bad angles, he forces passes on the perimeter that have no reward for the risk, and when he finds guys down low, it's always to a guy underneath the basket or at a terrible anle, or moving away from the basket.
We are already playing 3 guys who cannot score: Thompson is athletic at least, but his experiment is close to being a bust also; Williams became a man tonight, and is instrumental for this team's future success; and Ravenal is a high IQ guy who plays big and plays smart to make up for his lack of offense.
That leaves Scott and maybe Thompson as the fall guys.
Williams was better, but fantastic is too strong a description. Amir needed to be a bit stronger to the basket. I was more impressed with Ravenel. He should have got more minutes in he 2nd half. The guy was 4-4 in 14 minutes.
How is it Amir gets all those rebounds on offense and not score more? Evan can score and he never looked rattled. He man'd up Plumlee.
Less Thompson and Amir, more Q and Ravenel. I think Ravenel is a better scoring option.
I'm sure Thad will be on to read this later tonight...
Q plays terrible D, rebounds only when he feels like it, and tries to go one on one with his man every possession. Until he learns otherwise, he will ride a lot of pine.
Best options offensively outside of Tank or Q and Amadeo. The point of the game is still to put the ball in the basket. 32%?? Pathetic.
I agree that Thad should have brought in Ross earlier. The problem with playing Ross is he is a huge liability defensively. He would either guard Suliamon or Kelly, both of which were hot in the second half. I also think that Scott should have come in earlier in the second, and that the guards looked tired at the end (mainly Smith and Craft). However, this game isn't on Thad. The offense took too many bad shots, and missed too many of the easy ones. You can't beat good teams, especially on the road, when you shoot that poorly.
Ross is already better on D than Thomas was when he first started getting real floor time 2 seasons ago. Yes he's not solid on D but he's still an overall plus when he's out there. We have a whole lot of guys we can call on I the game dictates we need more D on the floor but he's really the only potential instant offense we can call on when need be. We definitely need more scoring threat on the floor or teams will continue to over play Thomas and sag back with others to keep is off the offense glass. That's the blueprint and adjustment Duke made...we made none. Stayed with denenders who shot 34%
D. Anthony
@D.Anthony The problem is, that when Thomas and Ross are on the court together it creates too big of a defensive hole. The comparison with Thomas a few years ago is fair, but Thomas was playing with four other guys that knew what they were doing. I agree that Ross should see more time, but understand where Thad is coming from on this.
We'll see if they both get to play more together and if having 2 big scoring threats with a drop off on D still gives us the better chance to win vs our 4 best defenders and one true scoring threat. It will be an interesting season to see how this unfolds.
D. Anthony
We'll see if they both get to play more together and if having 2 big scoring threats with a drop off on D still gives us the better chance to win vs our 4 best defenders and one true scoring threat. It will be an interesting season to see how this unfolds.
D. Anthony
Note to Thad:
Those drills we talked about last week . . . don't forget to run them at practice today.
Also, make sure that Q doesn't forget to get his fluids again.
P.s., remember to drop off four tickets to the Kansas game for me at will call.
Teams that play championship caliber basketball in November have a hard timing maintaining that high level through March.
This team will be fine, guys. You realize Duke has a 97-game winning streak against non-conference opponents? Remember they just defeated Kentucky and Louisville? They've already been in a tight game against a good opponent and came out on top. For this Ohio State team, this game was their first experience together in an environment like that, yet they shot 32% from the field and lost by only 6 points!
I don't like the loss, but everything else about this game screams to me that this Ohio State team will be very, very relevant in March/April. Craft had probably the worst game of his career. Thomas was in foul trouble and rarely had any time or space with the ball. Some bad shots were taken and bad fouls committed. Those will all be rectified, and this team will get A LOT better. Thompson, Scott, Ross, and Williams have not played many extended minutes against good opponents. For their first taste, in probably the toughest road environment imaginable, I was impressed overall.
You get nothing for winning all your November/December games. It's not like this team won't make it to the Big Dance. Get there and put yourself in position to make something happen. This team can do that.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
Very well stated. I came away from the loss more optimistic and impressed by the Buckeyes team than I was before. They need to get better, but they have a lot of potential, and this loss might very well be the best thing for them at this point in the season.
Why don't you guys just start a 'Fire Thad Matta' thread?
You guys act like you know these players better than their freakin' coach who sees them in practice every day.
TENN,
I like reading your posts, but I think you are not right on this one.
Sometimes, NOT being intimately acquainted with a kid allows for a more objective assessment. I don't know whether Shannon Scott is a beast in practice (or a dedicated son/student/church goer), but I know his shot selection sucks, and he makes perimeter passes with high risk and low reward I KNOW that Sam Thompson doesn't understand how to use the backboard while Evan Ravenal does.
I KNOW THIS and that is unaffected by the fact that Thad Motta wins a lot or gets paid a lot.
Even the great ones are sometimes biased or blinded. And just because the answer is easy or obvious (e.g., Williams should shoot 100 freethrows a day, even if that means less weight-room) doesn't mean that Motta or anyone else necessarily has seen it or addressed it properly
Those are fair points. My original post was reactionary and made out of frustration over comments that seem like overreactions to last night's game. I am in no way saying I agree with everything Matta does personnel wise or anything. For example: I'd like to see more Ross and less Thompson. And I don't think it's wrong for fans to question the coach. I just think we shouldn't all jump off a cliff this early in the season.
Mine was probably one of the posts you deemed an overreaction.
I understand Shannon Scott is 19 years old, and that I am a 50 year old nobody ripping on a kid. But, that does not change the fact that this team is going nowhere if led by Shannon Scott, that Thompson likewise has a low basketball IQ, and that Motta has changed the mindset (and/or allowed it to happen) of the highest basketball IQ kid - Craft- to the point where he now plays like a dumb ass.
For the lack of experience the young guys had against big time opponents last year. I'm not too down on this loss. Look at how all of the rest of the B1G teams did this past weekend against inferior opponents.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault.
JACK TATUM
I'm so concerned about this November loss, Not. Last year's team had 8 losses and still made it to the Final Four! Losees are not crippling in Basketball until double digits. Lots of ball still to be played this year.
Matta's philosophy first and foremost is that you must be able to defend. Thomas, while not known for his defense, is servicable enough and has a large enough offensive upside to keep on the court. As much as I would like to see Ross, he needs to be more active with rebounding and play within the offense (which we didn't do too well of overall). Unfortunately, having both Ross and Thomas on the floor at the same time creates too many opprotunities for Kelly (who had a good enough game as it was) and Suilamon, or you free up one of Curry/Cook, both of which are strong offensive players. Matta relied on defense in the second half. If he were a better (read: serviceable) defender, I think you would have seen Ross more in the second half.
Overall, I came away impressed. If either Scott, Zelle, or Craft shot a marginally better game, we would have won, in Cameron. That in and of itself is impressive. This game told Matta exactly what he has with this team. They need to work on shooting and confidence, and he has time to do that before Kansas comes in on Dec. 22nd. It was disappointing to lose in the fashion we did, but I'm overall encouraged.
On the outcoached note, I would have to disagree to an extent. While Matta and his staff didn't adjust during the second half, he did put his players in a place to succeed. It was the lack of execution that killed this game more so than game planning. If we made our open shots, we would have won, and I promsie you that there would be much less of this "outcoached" talk. While we are more athletic, Duke is a fundamentally sound, veteran team, on their home court.
(Side note: I was surprised by how even the fouls were. We didn't get hosed like I thought we would. There was one totally BS foul, but the rest were okay in my opinion. I was expecting a reduex of last year in Bloomington with regard to the officials. They called a good game, even if it was an ACC style of play.)
Plus what's up with Dukes obsession with food names? Lets Cook some Curry. Oh, the puns.
Excellent comment, but I don't quite agree on the officiating.
The officiating was almost invisible for the first 10-15 minutes of the game - meaning that it was superb. K wasn't content with that, so he started riding the officials incessantly.
Thereafter, Duke started to hand/body check dribbers and cutters on the perimeter like crazy and hack on drives to the lane and offensive rebound attempts, but was only selectively called for fouls. That enabled them to play "aggressively" and disrupt Ohio State's offensive flow. K knew what he was doing all along and the officials let him take over on his home court, as usual. That's partly why they've won 90+ non-conference home games in a row.
Sure, the end result might have been relatively parity in foul calls, but it should have been solidly in Ohio State's favor.
Fair points, but I would argue that Craft and to a lesser extent Zelle and Scott were allowed to be rather physical for the majority of the game. There were some silly fouls, and some ACC/Duke fouls, but for the most part, I could put a rational behind most of the fouls called, both ways. The foul calling was not as bad as last year's Elight 8 game against 'Cuse or the game in Bloomington.
And fair points by you. But my perception - and I'm biased - is that much of Craft's physicality comes from his footwork, hips, lower body - he uses his hands, but he's sly about it and understands the limits really well. Opposing fans complain that he's "mugging" their point guard when he's mostly chasing the poor sap around and constantly cutting of his angles of escape, etc.
Sure, Duke also picked up its efforts in the 2H along those lines. It wasn't all hand checking and interferring with cutters. They started to move their feet better, etc. But I'd suggest that Duke's "aggressive" play was a bit more tilted in the illegal direction. It's a fine line, but my perception was Duke was allowed to skirt the limits on defense.
As you said, Duke is a veteran team.
I agree with you on how Craft plays D. He puts himself in the right place at the right time to take away driving angles and disrupt his opponent's offense. I do agree that Duke came out in the second half with a second wind, and they were aggressive on the defensive side, toward dirty. There were a couple strips that Cook had that should have been fouls against Craft.
As for the fouls, what I'm getting at is that the fouls did not really decide the game. We could have overcome them and won. The refs didn't play too much ref ball.
I agree. Ohio State's defense really went downhill in the 2H. Offensively, they were less patient and when they got good looks, missed a bunch of them. Otherwise, they should have been able to overcome the "aggressiveness" the refs were allowing Duke to employ. Eventually, they'll need to learn to fight through such things if they're going to win 4+ games in the NCAA tournament.
Yes we will be fine and nobody is panicked...it's all about doing what we can now to get our bench and our 2nd tier guys ready. We don't do as good of a job as some of top programs in getting some of our bench guys to make that jump to the next level of being a big contributor by seasons end. It's almost like if you're not heavily into the rotation once the season begins you aren't worked into it somewhere along the way.
D. Anthony
I think it depends on what you want out of your second tier guys that's important. Some teams want them to press and play heavy minutes a la Izzo. That's fine, and so they develop their players and teams to match that. Other teams rely on a tighter rotation that results in greater cohesion within the rotation as a whole. The biggest question is what does Matta want out of his bench. We as a fanbase may not always agree with his rotation management, but he does develop players over time and generally puts his teams in the position to succeed. We will have to see how he manages the rotation going down the road. Right now, these young kids haven't played that much, and Matta doesn't trust them.