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Anything Else Forum

Offtopicland. This still isn't the place to discuss politics, religion, or hot-button social issues, however.

Tony Stewart runs over and kills competitor.

BassDropper's picture
August 10, 2014 at 1:19am
143 Comments

Not a NASCAR fan in the slightest, but I can't ignore the major story developing. Reports are surfacing that Stewart ran over a 17 year old kid, Kevin Ward,on the racetrack out of anger. Some tweets have since said that the 17 year has passed away. 

 

highwire's picture

Just read that too...absolutely crazy and terrible if it's true.

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

I'm not reading anything else until 6am. Right now, no one seems to know what's going on.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+2 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

I'm pretty pissed about the terrible reporting on this so far.

(There are times when 11W could use an IM app)

+4 HS
ITWASME's picture
+1 HS
NashBuckeye's picture

Why is Tony Stewart racing against a 17-year old? Hope the story is not true!

+1 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Ward was 20 years old.

Stewart regularly races Sprints on the side and has been using it to help get back into shape for NASCAR (he's been out since he was injured in an accident last year).

+3 HS
exnwohiobuckfan's picture

He actually owns a pretty cool little track

+2 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Eldora? He's part owner of a couple of others as well isn't he?

+1 HS
CGroverL's picture

I'm a NASCAR fan as most of us in the Daytona, FL area are. I +1'd you for knowing about Stewart's leg break as most here probably don't dig Nascar too much. As you said, Stewart regularly runs these Sprint races and on this next sentence I am not getting RELIGIOUS...........but from the 2 different shots (neither were great vids) that I saw, Tony Stewart ran that kid over on purpose and I think (right now as there has been no GREAT NEWS on the "accident" mostly due to possible lawsuits, in my opinion) that Tony didn't think he was going to kill the kid but tried to teach him a lesson "the very hard way". In the shots I saw (especially one), you could see Stewarts car turn hard right and hit the kid. God bless the Ward family and help Tony Stewart. If what I saw was not murder, it definitely was manslaughter and I still feel that is why we have heard no solid reports on almost anything as of yet. I am a Christian and don't hit me too hard for saying religious things. I know our rules, and I normally adhere to them.

Some different video views may change my mind, but Nascar lost a racer last season in a Sprint race and if it is that easy to DIE by racing in them and Tony Stewart is still alive, maybe some changes need to be made. I am going to leave my message up plus the 1HS for "Scarlet" but I'm so shocked that I may be talking out of my arse right now.....

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

-4 HS
jeremytwoface's picture

What did you say that was religious? 

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+4 HS
nfischer's picture

He must not think it is proper to say "God bless the Ward family" in a post.  

+1 HS
b_pbucksfans's picture

You are absolutely talking out of your ass.

+2 HS
AngryWoody's picture

Reading a lot of stuff on this and seeing everything from "He flew 50 feet and died on the spot" to people saying "nothing to see here". It's hard to tell what is going on exactly because most of the major news outlets are not touching this with a ten foot pole right now and most of the information has been left to leak out via twitter. I'm assuming it had to be pretty serious because they called off the race after the incident. Waiting to see what happens. I just hope it's not as serious as it is sounding like it could be.

*Edit* Video of the incident is out now.....fuck.....wow....I think i just watched a guy die before my eyes. The guy is dead. He has to be dead. Tony Stewart is going to prison.

Our Honor Defend!

CGroverL's picture

Right now....I think Tony Stewart did it on purpose and belongs in prison. That is why no one will speak about it. To think that Stewart was actually going to race today...I was gone all day and just got home to see this news...is altogether ridiculous and is simply a way of Stewart to try to weasel out (acting like the Ward kid just ran out in front of him and killed himself was a ridiculous way to try and get out of running the kid over). It may not be murder, but it is manslaughter and Stewart should be prison bound in my opinion.

"I hope they're last in everything"

Thanks, Urb!

-5 HS
BassDropper's picture

WARNING. GRAPHIC CONTENT. 

DIRECTIONER

+1 HS
BUCKfutter's picture

i just watched the video too. not pretty.  the guy does run right into the path of oncoming traffic, but what is hard to determine (and will be hard to prove i think) is if stewart intentionally hit the kid. you can hear his engine rev, but it looks like he literally didn't change his direction at all - the kid walked right into his path. he did stop his car immediately afterwards. awful tragedy at best, and sick, sick act at worst.

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

+4 HS
AngryWoody's picture

It's official, Kevin Ward is dead.

This is the worst sports story I have ever seen. Tony Stewart is going to prison for a while.

Our Honor Defend!

-5 HS
CC's picture

Just like Carlos hit that girl... Let the story develop a little before rushing to judgment.

+11 HS
AngryWoody's picture

Have you seen the video? He killed that guy. It's not up for dispute.

Our Honor Defend!

-9 HS
CincyOSU's picture

He did kill the guy, but only Tony knows what really happened. Not you, not me. So stop speculating on what you think he did or didn't do. 

+2 HS
AngryWoody's picture

There is no speculation. He hit and killed the guy. I don't get what you're not understanding about this. 

Even if the guy ran out on the track where he shouldn't be, you can't just kill a person and say "whoops, my bad guys" and be off the hook as if you didn't do anything wrong. I want you to drive downtown and run down the first guy you see who is jay-walking and say "Whoops my bad, he shouldn't have been jay walking" and see how that works for you. Your ass would be in cuffs in five seconds, but for some reason Tony Stewart gets to kill a guy with a car and it seems like it's no big deal to most people. Guess what, whether it was on purpose (which I don't think it was) or and accident, it is a big deal. It's a big fucking deal and seeing him running around free when just about anyone else would be rotting in a jail cell is a farce. The guy is a killer, accident or not.

Our Honor Defend!

-10 HS
DannyBeane's picture

I don't think hitting someone down town verses hitting someone on a closed course race track are the same thing. Down town there is the expectation that somebody could cross the street at any time. Also people aren't driving their cars a 100 miles and hour. The kid did something stupid. He ran out on a race track and got himself killed. It could have been any other racer on that track that hit him, it just happened to be Tony Stewart

+7 HS
AngryWoody's picture

Is a life somehow less of a life because you kill them downtown instead of on a race track? If you kill a pedestrian on accident (say it is bad weather and dark and you couldn't see them) on a dark country road where you don't expect someone to be walking is that somehow ok because you don't have the expectation that someone would be crossing? Of course not!

The kid did something stupid, yes. Did he DESERVE to die? No.

Nothing you are saying excuses killing him. Nothing. 

Our Honor Defend!

-9 HS
CincyOSU's picture

~~Nothing you are saying excuses killing him. Nothing.

What's your point? Just because someone dies during an accident; freak, intentional, or otherwise does NOT mean someone has to go to jail.

Suppose Ward had flipped out and jumped on Stewart's hood and died in the process...does all the blame still fall on Stewart?

Just terrible, terrible logic at play here. I mean do you REALLY think that in the example you gave(dark country road) anything would, or should, happen to the driver of this vehicle?

+3 HS
BassDropper's picture

Suppose Ward had flipped out and jumped on Stewart's hood and died in the process...does all the blame still fall on Stewart?

He didn't do that...so no need to speculate on what would happen in that situation. Tony saw the driver, he sped up instead of swerving out of the way...his car showed no change in direction besides the fish tail he did when he sped up. Every other car passed Ward, but it just so happens that the guy Ward was trying to confront was the one who killed him. 

DIRECTIONER

-8 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Every other car passed Ward, but it just so happens that the guy Ward was trying to confront was the one who killed him. 

Imagine that, Ward ran up to the car he was trying to confront...that couldn't have had anything to do with the accident...

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

-2 HS
CincyOSU's picture

WHAT!?!?!

Do you even understand what you are saying?

Even if the guy ran out on the track where he shouldn't be, you can't just kill a person and say "whoops, my bad guys" and be off the hook as if you didn't do anything wrong

Umm, yes you can if it's not your fault. If some idiot decides it a good idea to go run up and down I-71 and someone hits, and kills, him; then by your logic the person should be thrown in jail. Doe that make ANY sense at all? Just because someone dies doesn't mean someone has to go to jail.

In this case, there isn't nearly enough evidence(at least at this point which is why you are speculating) to support the claim that Stewart did anything intentionally. The video doesn't show Stewarts car until right before impact and more importantly, we don't know what Stewart saw while on the race track.

Your logic, and examples, are WAY off here.

+6 HS
AngryWoody's picture

I'm wrong. You're right. The examples I am using are bad.

In a case you like this you have to prove one of two things to make it manslaughter. You have to prove there was negligence, or you have to prove there was intent, and in this case you can't prove either unless you could enter Tony's mind and see what he saw and that's not gonna happen.

I still think he is getting the benefit of the doubt way too much when you watch the video. Lots of other cars missed Ward, and then here comes one of the best race car drivers in the world on a well lit track and he accidentally revs the engine right by Ward, and accidentally has his back tires shoot out from under him, accidentally striking him. Just seems like people are being pretty generous here when they just assume one of the best race car drivers in the world randomly lost control of his car on a straight-away on a well lit track right in front of a driver who was taunting him. I think Tony needs to explain why he hit the damn gas when a guy was standing so close to his car, and I think he needs to answer it in front of a jury. I think that is fair.

Our Honor Defend!

-10 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Stewart didn't 'accidentally have his back tires shoot out from under him'. He was still sideways coming out of the the turn. If he had tried to make major corrections he would have lost control and endangered his life or the lives of drivers who weren't standing in the middle of the track.

The real problem is that people are making some very bad assumptions about what happened.

+7 HS
AngryWoody's picture

The real problem is that people who don't understand the physics of short dirt tracks are making assumptions.

Phew, thank God you're a dirt track racing physicist. Just a question for the expert: If you're coming out of your turn sideways and you nail the gas, wouldn't that cause the back end to shoot out even more? I mean, isn't going too fast the main reason cars lose traction in the turns and crash? Just asking because I'm not an expert. If that's true doesn't it stand to reason that if you were coming out of your skid and nailed the gas for no apparent reason your back tires would shoot out even farther?

Another question, if the cars were on a caution lap (and they were on a cation lap mind you) do they even have the kind of speed you would need to skid coming out of a corner on a caution lap? Wouldn't the sprint car rules set the caution speed very low so that cars wouldn't be skidding around, which would be a major safety hazard?  If Tony was sideways wasn't he going far too fast for a caution lap? Wouldn't speeding in a caution lap be considered negligence and prove Tony Stewart was at least partially responsible for killing Ward?

So I'm just asking the expert, why was Tony going so fast when he wasn't supposed to? And why did Tony nail the gas at that exact spot when he was on "caution"? Here's why: He was speeding and his negligence cause Ward to die.

Our Honor Defend!

-10 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

There's assumption #1. You don't know that he hit the gas. The source for that claim is a buddy of Ward's (he also claimed the car 'threw Ward 50 yards'). Fans sitting on the far side of the track wouldn't be able to tell over the din of the other cars.

That being said, if he did hit the gas that's actually supports the view that he was trying to avoid Ward as that's the only way to straighten the car back up (remember it was the rear wheel that made contact with Ward).

Assumption #2. That Stewart was driving unnecessarily fast. From what little can be seen it looks like most of the other cars that passed by Ward were traveling at least as fast or faster than Stewart. Most of them also were traveling in the same line or a bit higher (with #45 being the sole exception).

Ward got out of his car, he came close to being hit by at least one other car traveling a higher line than Stewart. Ward then RAN farther down into the track, almost coming into contact with a car that was almost in the infield. If you look closely at that car (blue & white #45), while it was trying to avoid Ward it's rear end comes around in an almost identical manner to Stewart's.

Ward is dead because he decided to run in front of oncoming traffic. That's the story here.

+5 HS
Grande Gustavo's picture

He didn't hit the gas he downshifted which raises your RPMs. He downshifted because there was a caution flag out because of Ward's wreck. 

On the "well lit track" part, have you ever been to a dirt track? There is dirt flying everywhere, you can hardly see, and the tracks are not well lit enough to really pierce the dirt when the race is going. Ward's almost entirely black fire suit also contributed making it that much harder to see him. 

It is a terrible accident, and it really sucks that a 20 year old guy died last night. Thinking that Stewart would kill a guy on purpose over a low level sprint car race though is one of the silliest things I have ever heard. 

The answer may not be at the bottom of a bottle, but it never hurts to check. 

JYBUCKEYE's picture

You can't downshift a sprint car. It is either in gear or out of gear.  

+6 HS
Grande Gustavo's picture

You're right, my bad. That doesn't real change any of my other points. 

The answer may not be at the bottom of a bottle, but it never hurts to check. 

-1 HS
smithwessonBuckeye's picture

There are many factors that would contribute to losing control of the car when the gas was hit during a turn at race speed. The stagger of the tires along with spring compression, wing angle, and degree of banking in the track. For the most part, these guys don't lift their foot from the gas under race conditions, but throttling will help put the car in proper position to pass or exit the turn.

The pace under the caution is significantly slower, but it is also set by the race leader at certain tracks. Any time under caution during a dirt track race is a big game of follow the leader for this specific reason. Low visibility creates different problems, either from the dirt that is blowing around the track or due to the nature of the car. Tony was following the other cars around the track just as he should.

There has been plenty of speculation as to why Tony hit the gas at that exact moment, but the only people that know right now are the investigators and Tony himself. Maybe he was surprised by the figure that close to the car? Who knows? 

+1 HS
osu78's picture

It would depend - do dirt track cars exhibit trailing throttle oversteer? If so, gas would be the way to correct the loose tail.

-1 HS
Silver Bullet 10's picture

Oh my goodness. God help us. Prayers to all the families involved. A very, very unfortunate incident. I don't want to speculate on anything. I just wish the best. Oh my. 

+1 HS
FROMTHE18's picture

Very very sad news. I have watched the video. Difficult to determine anything from it IMO, other than the driver being hit and appearing to die instantly. I am unsure why Ward (alleged victim) would get out of the car during a race and watch towards the field. This is a tragic circumstance and I hope, simply for my mind, that this was an accident rather than a deliberate action, as some have said, its a sport and to use the car as a weapon against a out-of-car driver is atrocious (if true). 

+2 HS
ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

Stewart and Ward made contact on the track, and Ward wrecked.  He was mad at Tony, so he got out of his car and ran down the track to show his displeasure to Tony as Tony was driving by. 

Class of 2010.

+2 HS
Rob Reese's picture

I remember a few years ago Home Depot always threatening to pull sponsorship from Tony's car/team when with Gibbs Racing due to his pattern of erratic behavior, fights and confrontations with other drivers and seemingly uncontrollable temper.  Still, I don't/can't believe this was intentional until I hear more.  This is a shocking tragedy.

tOSU class of 2009, College of Arts and Sciences

TheAFBuckeye's picture

To me, doesn't look intentional at all.  The cars are traveling at a high rate of speed on a small dirt track. The incident happened just after Stewart came out of a turn and the other driver clearly walked into the path of oncoming traffic. If you watch racing at all, you'll almost always notice that drivers take the same line during most of the race and especially in and out of turns.  Definitely an unfortunate event but I find it hard to see any malicious intent. Just my 2 cents.

Let's Go BUCKEYES!!!!!

+16 HS
Rob Reese's picture

My first impression too.  Why walk down the track with oncoming traffic like that outside of your car?  Such a senseless tragedy.  

tOSU class of 2009, College of Arts and Sciences

+13 HS
Buckeyebrowny919's picture

Not only this, but a sudden movement on dirt track will kick the back of the car out. Heat goes out to the family, but that was a bad bad bad move on Ward's part.

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

+6 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Just saw the video. My take - it's absolutely horrible first of all. What I saw was Ward do something incredibly dumb & walk into oncoming traffic on a track filled with cars moving fast. All respect for the departed, but that was a flat out stupid thing to do.

Now, In my opinion, looked like Tony Stewart fish tailed on purpose *(see edit below). Whether he meant to scare him is unclear, obviously - but I'd say the fishtail was intentional. I'm not a NASCAR fan & have no dog in the fight, so trying to look at it in an unbiased way...Tony Stewart may do some time or at minimum this situation will be looked at very, very closely. Still, I'll go back & say again, walking out onto the track in the middle of speeding cars (even if caution had come out) - not a good move. 

Edit: having looked at the video & read on this quite a bit, thinking now the fishtail was not intentional at all. I'll be letting time sort through what really happened. Lot of people here, DVing simple opinions on a serious matter though. Sad that you can no longer have any sort of debate on this site without people jumping on you for difference of opinion...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+7 HS
TheAFBuckeye's picture

The fishtail to me looks post contact and could have easily been due to the contact.  The video isn't great though.  Horrible tragedy.

Let's Go BUCKEYES!!!!!

+4 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Certainly tough to say for sure. I heard the engine rev, the camera comes back to Ward, car seems to be fishtailing beforehand to me, but you're right - the video does make it tough to say for sure...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+4 HS
Buckeyebrowny919's picture

He was cutting on dirt to get out of the way is how I view it. You don't just turn on dirt.

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

+3 HS
TheAFBuckeye's picture

I agree with that and coming out of the turn where he was already sideways...

Let's Go BUCKEYES!!!!!

+1 HS
Rob Reese's picture

I  heard the engine rev

I hear an engine 'rev' too, but I'm not convinced it's Tony's.  The mic on that phone is obviously next to the lens itself, I'm 99% certain that "rev" we hear is from a car out of view in front of the camera-man, to his left -- my amateur take on the audio anyway.

tOSU class of 2009, College of Arts and Sciences

+2 HS
OvalBeachBum's picture

My, first impression, along with my second, third and fourth impression, is that Ward should NOT have been out in the middle of the track.  WHY GET OUT OF YOUR CAR? Also, on dirt tracks such as eldora motor speedway it is very common for cars to fishtail wide out of turns.  I don't think his fishtail on purpose.  From what I understand from people who do race modifieds, trying to fishtail on purpose on dirt tracks makes you much more likely to spin out.  Just food for thought.

"In the words of the late great Colonel Sanders, I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Ricky Bobby

rbesr's picture

Doesn't look intentional to me either. Smoke may have a temper but no driver wants to kill another on the track. This is a terrible tragedy that shouldn't have happened but it did. Claiming it to be intentional is foolish. My heart goes out to all involved in this.

+6 HS
DaytonBuck1980's picture

Just heard on ESPN radio that it's being looked at as an on track matter and not a criminal one. Also, Stewart is planning on racing today. 

Still not giving a damn for the whole state of Michigan. 

+2 HS
sox33osu's picture

He's backed off of that and is not going to be racing.

+5 HS
DaytonBuck1980's picture

That's good to hear. Intentional or not, that's probably the wise thing to do. 

Still not giving a damn for the whole state of Michigan. 

+4 HS
AWalk3r1's picture

Okay first things first, Lets all step back for a second and say a prayerf for the young man who lost his life.

My View of the video I saw. First My Father and my Brother have raced dirt track in southern Ohio all my life. I grew up around it, Be sides a sprint dirt track racer I feelI know a lot about how the tracks are and the way they race cars on dirt.

When some takes a turn on a small dirt track like that, They basically drift around the turn. On the lap that i saw, One I see no contact between Stewart and the Other driver. I see Stewarts Car slide up wards, Where he would want to be, to be prepared to enter the next turn. I have no clue why the young man was mad, only that maybe he felt tony pushed him up the track. 

With all that being said when Tony came back around he was in the same, line he was in when he went around when the crash happened. Lets not forget that tony push the man up the track because of the line he was using. So it is very realistic to think he would have been at the edge of the smooth part of the track, where the wrecked car was.

Everyone sees tonys car jump to the right like he was turning into him. More then likly he was counter steering, to help him slef drift correctly out of the turn. If he tapped his breaks at all, In fright, in surprise, for what ever reason. His car would have caught traction and  jumped to the right. 

It may not look like it, in the video but these sprint cars are moving very very fast, on a small track.  Like nascar looks like slower on tv, so does this. 

That dirt is like ice. Esp if that was the feature event. you can see the shine on the track.  My Dads car would have been set up to race on a slick track, if we would have been there. Coming out of a turn on a track like that is when you have the least control on the track. 

I would compare this to a deer jumping towards your car on a snowy day. thou your front end passed the dear you would still make some type of adjustment out of shock. 

I do not at all thinkhe had any ill intent, One in pushing him up the track, (two men trying to hold thier line) Or in hitting the Young man. 

I pray for all familys involved. With a heavy heart go bucks. 

+22 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Really solid thoughts & insight - Thank you. One thing I wanted to mention, as I've been reading about this all morning - There have been a number of people (other drivers & eyewitnesses) who said there was indeed a bump between the 2 cars when Ward hit the wall.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+3 HS
smithwessonBuckeye's picture

I really appreciate this statement. I agree on all counts. I have also grown up in and around dirt tracks across the midwest and have spent a lot of time around sprints. This young man made a horrible mistake that ended his life due to allowing his emotions to get the best of him in this scenario. This will make a profound impact on the racing community for the near future.

+4 HS
FROMTHE18's picture

Great comment. I have to ask, it sounds like controlling a car on these types of tracks is very difficult. If so, hypothetically speaking, if Stewart was aiming to scare or hit the other drive, would he have been able to do it with that much precision? I mean, as you said, he may have well just been following his line, and a part of that has to be because making adjustments on a dirt track is incredibly difficult because of the lack of traction. I just think if he were adjusting to go toward the other drive (who was moving/not stationary) it would be very hard for him to do without completely slamming into him or sending his car either into other cars or the wall. 

+3 HS
AWalk3r1's picture

There was not trying to scare the kid in this, You have to understand, Coming out of the turn you wont your car to slid up the track, to prepare to the next turn at the right angle. think of putting a mrable in a bowl and spin the marble around it, it is that type of kenetic energy that would takehis car up that way, Ever one keeps saying he fish tailed it, to hit or scare the kid, No he was coming out of a fish tail. His car, as in dirt track racing, was face one way , but moving another. Like drifting.

+2 HS
bigtenspeed's picture

I was stunned to see the kid walking right into the line of traffic. I don't watch NASCAR but have never seen anyone do that before.

Kid Buckeye's picture

Getting out of the car after an accident is fairly common nowdays in racing along with using their cars to settle things.Why they do that is stupid and just asking for something bad to happen. Like to see the old days  of racing where they settled their differnces with their fists and not their cars.

+2 HS
bigtenspeed's picture

Do they normally march right into the middle of the track? Usually when I've seen confrotations it's been in the pit or guy standing on the side of he track throwing his helmet at the other car.

+6 HS
Deadly Nuts's picture

With all respect to Ward and his family, what the fuck was he doing? YOU DON'T RUN ONTO A TRACK WITH SPEEDING CARS IN A BLACK SUIT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!

LEBRON

+19 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Correct. That was the strangest thing to do. Whether people  do it or not in racing, he did it at night in a black suit. That was something I hadn't even considered & now I really don't know what you'd have to be thinking to do that..

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+3 HS
UFest57's picture

Do you think if someone other than Tony Stewart had cut him off he would have ran into the track to confront him? Or was he trying to be a 'tough guy' and get in the face of one of NASCAR's best?

All in all, a real tragedy. 

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Do you think if someone other than Tony Stewart had cut him off he would have ran into the track to confront him? Or was he trying to be a 'tough guy' and get in the face of one of NASCAR's best?

I think that is a fair question to ask, and one of the reasons that Stewart has faced criticism in the past for racing in dirt track events. It was almost a year ago to the day that he was involved in another serious accident that rendered someone with a broken back. 

He also broke his leg in one of these races and hasn't been the same since.

To him, it is a hobby and to the other drivers it is their livelihood. In all likelihood, that wrecked sprint car was a serious financial investment for Ward and his team, where as Stewart is worth $100m and could wreck one a day and never feel it in the wallet.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

hit_the_couch's picture

Why did the guy get out of his car and try to run up another one pointing the finger and likely venting? I don't watch outlaw/ sprint car racing (or really any auto racing), but I heard they can go 130mph sideways around corners on dirt. Also, dirt traction is gonna be an issue on those tracks; this should have been known by him.

It's hard to tell from the angle and small video window the whole picture of what happened. My condolences for his loved ones that have survived him, but he shouldn't have gotten out of his car and ran towards the others.

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

+5 HS
livinginthegrey's picture

Horrible tragedy. I don't know racing or cars, so someone with more exp chime in... Would Stewarts engine rev if he downshifted upon seeing driver on track. Doesn't the engine help brake without losing control of the car? 

hit_the_couch's picture

I drive a stick, and anytime one downshifts the RPMs are gonna raise; how much they raise depends on speed, engine size, operating range (e.g. a V-8 typically operates at lower RPMs. It goes V-8, V-6 and I-4) and gear shifted to. I would think that sprint and race cars are engineered differently though, so i'm not sure how much a difference it would be.

Yes, downshifting will slow the car some. It can cause traction problems on certain terrains due to speeding up of the engine and how much is transferred to the wheels (basically there would be a considerable difference between engine and wheel speed). I don't watch racing, but know that if it is a two wheel drive car without a posi rear end it can cause a swerve. 

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

RPMs would be tied to the gear ratios of the transmission, not the engine type.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

hit_the_couch's picture

RPMs would be tied to the gear ratios of the transmission, not the engine type.

I am not an expert (or close to one), but there's a lot more tied to it than just the tranny. A number of things matter including engine size, cam type, bore to stroke ratio, etc. For example, diesels run very low RPMs because they make more torque; this is somewhat true from down the line of engine size and tuning. RPM is essentially the engine speed. Yes, engine type and tuning matters along with tranny ratios (which change the engine speed).

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

-1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

What you are describing are different types of engines and how they operate, not what makes/causes the engine speed, or RPMs.

An I4 going 35 mph with a 3.42:1 gear ratio engaged would impact the engine speed the same way it would to a I6, V6, or V8. 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

hit_the_couch's picture

It's possible, but i'm pretty sure not all cars can run on the same ratios due to power, weight and other factors. However, like I said i'm not an expert or close to one. I was simply a certified tech for a few years, but have forgotten much of what I knew (been out of the business since '09 or '10).

Touche', sir 

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

osu07asu10's picture

It's possible, but i'm pretty sure not all cars can run on the same ratios due to power, weight and other factors.

Absolutely correct here in that cars absolutely do not run the same gear ratios for the exact reasons stated. However, bore and stroke and everything you mentioned has nothing to do with how an engine reacts to the gear it is in, in regards to engine speed.

Just in general, a more powerful engine (torque, broad torque band) can run on much higher gears to achieve similar performance and better efficiency (higher gears equal lower ratios 2.73:1 is a high gear...4.10:1 is a low gear).

In classic muscle car applications, drag racing, etc where acceleration is key, you'll see a lower gear set up.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

smithwessonBuckeye's picture

Sprint Cars run on a single gear. There is no shifting at any point when a driver is in the car. 

+4 HS
GlueFingers Lavelli's picture

I also believe they have a single rear disc brake.

Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.

hit_the_couch's picture

Sprint Cars run on a single gear. There is no shifting at any point when a driver is in the car. 

Good deal, I know little about racing other than motor/ super cross and downhill MTB. I occasionally watched school buses and figure 8s when I had speed channel. 

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

BUCKSOMIES's picture

Simply put, this is a awful thing for that young man and his family.  Prayers to them.

+1 HS
Furious George 27's picture

Black suit, dimly lit track and ward purposely walking into traffic. Unfortunate accident but a dumb ass move on his part with all 3 factors taken into account

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

+8 HS
rosycheeks's picture

Pure speculation here. If you've ever had a moment of road rage, you could imagine that Stewart, from a distance, could have seen Ward out of his car, making gestures at him. Stewart could have thought to himself that he was going to give the kid a little scare and come a little close for comfort. But then the kid stupidly lunged even further out in traffic. As stated, this dirt is like ice, and Stewart couldn't change his course to avoid the kid. So some culpability on Stewart's side, but certainly no intent to kill. Obviously this is pure speculation, and I'm not purporting this as the truth. Seems plausible though.

-1 HS
My buck's picture

Ward, obviously blinded by anger, made an incredibly stupid decision that lacked any good judgement. If people are willing to give him a pass to using "clouded judgement in the heat of the moment", we have to use that same logic with Stewart for revving his engine, perhaps trying to scare Ward. In my mind, this was a TERRIBLE accident. I do know that if Ward would have stayed put, this shocking chain of events would've never happened. If you play Russian Roullette, you may die. 

+5 HS
BTBuckeye's picture

This is a terrible tragedy. I can't blame Stewart for this though. Incredibly poor decision by ward...You don't do that on a live track.

+2 HS
Knarcisi's picture

We will see some new rules now about guys getting out of cars and charging other cars after accidents. Suspensions, etc. This having to happen to change this mindset is just silly. 

+2 HS
Kid Buckeye's picture

Stewart will not be racing today.

-1 HS
Kid Buckeye's picture

My take is that Stewart was trying to scare him and things went wrong. No way Stewart would run him over on purpose.  Stupid moves by both drivers but more with Stewart for even getting that closeto him. Stop the car and have it out like real men.

EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Ward was in the middle of the track. He moved down a couple of times from where his car was to get to the middle to get in front of Stewart's car. Very, very sad, but also incredibly reckless.

+5 HS
GlueFingers Lavelli's picture

Is it possible that Stewart didn't see how low the kid was on the track? If you watch the video you see the first blue car before Stewart flash by and seemingly come close to hitting Ward. I mention this because most racers usually take the same line which Stewart was doing. So is it possible that going into the turn Stewart didn't see the kid because of the car in front of him, and by the time he realized how low Ward actually was on the track it was too late???  Him goosing it in the turn could have been to scare him like mentioned above, but I'm pretty sure sprint cars even during caution flags, do that to keep their tires warm. I highly doubt Stewart intended to hit him if he indeed was aware Ward was out of his car. I guess the question we are waiting for has to be told by Tony. Did he see him, of was he concealed by the car in front of him?  I'm also curious to see if there was a Go-Pro camera on the car, that might paint another picture.

Either way it was terrible judgment by Ward. Dimly lit track at night wearing an all black race suit and running towards oncoming traffic is just foolish no matter the circumstances. I can't imagine how Tony felt when he realized he hit him. I'm sure he went into shock. Just a terrible tragedy.

Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.

+3 HS
KingsRite's picture

I'm a devout NASCAR fan and I view this as a horrible accident. No way Tony Stewart intentionally tried to hit Kevin Ward Jr. In fact, if you watch the video closely, he attempts to steer the car away from Kevin but can't react quickly enough.

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” -Urban Meyer-

+1 HS
Young_Turk's picture

I have a question for those that know dirt-track racing.  If Stewart hit the gas before hitting Ward, is that either an error in judgement, or is it something a dirt-track racer would do to assist the turn in an effort to avoid the collision?  

All I know from dirt-track racing is from the Play Station racing games, so laughably little.  Isn't the point to swing the rear around before the straight-away as a way to break the drift?  Does hitting the gas aid that?

What I see in the video is Ward making a very poor decision and putting himself in harm's way.  I hear the drivers slow down as the sound of the engines dies down.  Then, before impact, I hear what I assume is Stewart hit the gas on his car.   Without judgement, if the above is true, does that prove either negligent or humane intent?

Thanks for all constructive replays and may Ward's family have peace in this tragedy.

AWalk3r1's picture

How do you know he hit the gas ? there are a bunch of other cars out there, Ar you telling me that out of all those cars you hear his car ? But to answer your question i think it is common knowledge that by the time someone is coming out of a corner they hit the gas....

+2 HS
bbb's picture

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=239_1407652391

it's the only car in the area, you can specifically hear it accelerating. hard to say if he saw the driver but i highly doubt any of these drivers close their eyes, as it's extremely dangerous to take your eyes off the track in these races

rbesr's picture

IMO, you hear the car closest to the microphone accelerate, not specifically Stewart's car.

+1 HS
Poison nuts's picture

One thing I am certain of with all authority, that is Tony's car we hear accelerate or rev. 100%. Not implying that means he did something bad because the engine revved, but that is absolutely his car we hear. I do video/audio production for a living. I own a business doing this - I was extremely curious about what happened, so I downloaded the video & analyzed it. I believe for certain it's Tony's car that revved. It would make sense that if he saw him last second, he would turn & accelerate to try to miss him...

Edit: I guess I upset some people by stating the above - does anyone want to speak about it? Happy to discuss it.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

Poison nuts's picture

.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

CincyOSU's picture

I didn't down vote you, but how can you tell it's his car? The camera/microphone is on the other side of the track. Isn't it possible we are hearing cars that are closer to the mic on the same side of the track as the camera?

-1 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Well, it probably came off as arrogant sounding - which wasn't the intent - but I've worked in video for 20 years. I've worked a few times with law enforcement on various projects, mostly just making video, but I did do a job for the sheriff where I was asked to analyze/work with bad video. I have a pretty solid understanding of audio too - especially as it relates to video. Almost every video camera's microphone has a directional microphone, meaning it picks up audio best from the direction the camera is pointed. Not unlike a shotgun mic, although camera mics are not technically shotguns, they do pick up audio best from where the camera is pointed.

So, I used a program which enables you to download videos on YouTube. I put the the video into an editing program & slowed it down & messed with the audio. I was fascinated to know if it was for sure his car that made the noise. It's my opinion after 1/2 a day of messing with the video & audio that it was from his car. Now, I've actually stepped away from thinking there was any intent at all, but I can say with a degree of certainty that it was his car that we hear in the video. I probably shouldn't have said "100%" a even if I am convinced of my opinion. This is an area I have expertise in so that is why I said what I said. I hope this is a solid explanation & I appreciate the feedback.

To answer your question of could it be another car, I do not believe that is possible as it seems to match perfectly with how the camera comes back to Stewarts car. The audio raises & syncs perfectly with the car in the picture - which is Stewarts.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

I think it is the veracity that you claim you know it is Stewart's car that we hear.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

Poison nuts's picture

Yes, see above explanation to Cincy. I may have sounded overly confident or cocky, but I am also convinced what I said was correct.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Appreciate the insight PNuts. I balanced you out with a few +1s.

I too spent a pretty good amount of time listening, looking, replaying. I did also slow it down (via downloaded clip). 

Not being an A/V guy whatsoever, I am a pretty big NASCAR fan (I lived in the birthplace of NASCAR for 4 years, once you go to a race, it is great filler in the summertime for the sports void). I do also believe it is Stewart's car that revs the engine.

I came to this conclusion because there are approximately 4 cars that pass in front of the camera before Stewart does. None are accelerating, half don't take the high line as they clearly see the wreck, and the other ones narrowly miss Ward but have enough control to safely move down the track to avoid Ward.

My take, FWIW: Stewart was going to dust him as he went by and definitely was taking a high line out of the corner. However, Ward kept moving down the track and into Stewart's path. Those cars don't change direction on a dime and I think that the throttle blip was to kick the back end up and throw a little dust on Ward and Ward wasn't expecting it and moved down into his path.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Thanks for the feedback. I always appreciate when someone is willing to debate or discuss something they disagree with/see differently. It's why I come to this site (my old lady says way too often).

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+2 HS
Whoa Nellie's picture

You cannot know, as a matter of fact, what you claim based on reviewing audio.  No matter how well qualified you are; no matter how sure you are that you are correct; it's still an opinion, not a fact.  Stating your opinion as a fact: (1) is arrogant; and (2) cuts off any chance for debate.  This is off-putting.  I know you called it an opinion at one time, but you've also said, in essence, "I'm right and that's all there is to it."  FWIW, I accept that your opinion is most likely correct until someone qualified disputes it and backs that opinion up with solid reasoning. 

IMO, the problem with any thread like this is it's open season on speculation, bias and unfounded opinions.  And, it's usually starts off with a sensational, attention-grabbing headline.  It's the bane of social and, unfortunately all too often, mainstream media.  Anyway, that's why I'll await the completion of a thorough investigation before deciding that anyone is a "murderer" (clearly not your opinion, but that of some posters).

“Don’t fear criticism. The stands are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down on the field are the doers, they make mistakes because they attempt many things.”

-2 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Did you read my reply to Cincy? I said I probably shouldn't have said 100% as it is still an opinion, albeit an educated one. I said that above to both of the people that responded. BTW - I did not review the audio only - it was the audio & video. What I am using to do this with is not a home movie editing system, and this is my profession so while it may sound arrogant, it's not meant to. It's just that I feel as though I'm qualified to make a sound judgement. While I am certain of what I said to be correct, I admit that the way in which I did it could have been done a bit better. If it means anything, if I was to be in a courtroom & asked, I would say that I was my opinion it was his car. It would be an anomaly if it wasn't - but I suppose it's within the realm of possibility. If you are still bothered, I cannot help you out, I did my best to explain my position & I'm sorry you didn't like what I said.

Edit: I just saw your edit. I too will no longer be speculating on anything & will also wait to see what comes out of it. Initially, I thought he (Stewart) had some intention to "dust" or scare Ward. Now I actually have no opinion on what Stewart's intention was. To be honest - the only thing the video shows for sure is that Ward got out of his car & put himself in harms way. He could have easily been hit by the car prior to Stewart's (45) so my only thought on the matter is that it was tragic, & could have been avoided. I imagine there will be laws within the racing community that say that you cannot get out of your car & run toward other racers...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+1 HS
Whoa Nellie's picture

I did.  Just taking a stab at opining as to your question about the reason for DV's.  I think most of those preceded your most recent posts clarifying that this was your opinion, and not a fact.  I probably should have just let it lie, but this thread is so full of pure speculation, I probably over-reacted.  To be clear, I don't dislike what you said, only the way it was earlier stated as factually certain, e.g. "for sure".  I appreciate you sharing your expertise.    

“Don’t fear criticism. The stands are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down on the field are the doers, they make mistakes because they attempt many things.”

-1 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Gotcha - fair enough - no harm no foul. I'm out of this thread for good now, as I'd feel much better about reading & talking about OSU football! ;)
 

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+1 HS
Young_Turk's picture

So the caution is out, because of an accident that Stewart was a participant in, and it's "common-knowledge" logical for him to hit the gas coming out of the same corner where the accident occurred?  Sorry, but that simple answer doesn't answer in this case for me.

I did some research on the internet in the meantime.  Here's what "some guy on the internet" said back in 2011.

From my perspective, it's because you can step out the back tire, which points your force vector (from the back tire's torque) inward in the turn, helping you to turn sharper than you can if you don't break the back tire loose. There is a balancing point where the back tire (or tires for a car) are out at the best angle to give you the best speed and acceleration through the dirt turn. If you step it out too far, you slow down and go too far into the direction of the inside of the turn. Don't setp it out enough, and you head towards the outside of the turn....

Read more: http://www.physicsforums.com

If hitting the gas aid's the turn, maybe Stewart had kindly intent if that was him hitting the gas.  I don't have an axe to grind on either side of the equation, but I think if it did boil down to a charge, prosecution would have to prove…1) that was Stewart that hit the gas, 2) He did so with non-beneficial or harmful intent (could this be derived based on the timing and force of how (assuming) Stewart hit the gas?), 3) and somehow mitigate Ward's unfortunate role in his own demise.  I think that would make for some pretty tough sledding.  

+3 HS
cdub4's picture

Witnesses said he hit the gas

+1 HS
Poison nuts's picture

AWalk3R1, no disrespect intended, but I've read your comments & it seems maybe you're looking at this, at least somewhat, as a fan of Stewart. You don't seem to be considering that he may have made an error, intentional or not. He is the only car that came out of the turn that fast after the caution was out. Again, really crazy & wrong of Ward to do what he did, but there is a possibility Stewart was somehow in the wrong. I'm not saying he tried to hit him, but seems to me like one of the world's most skilled drivers could have handled his car better.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+1 HS
AWalk3r1's picture

nope not a fan of him, and we can site his skill all these things people are pointing out, and have all these theory's of what happen, truth is no way no how should any of this should have happened. I do not blame Tony at all for this, hell I do not even blame him for the contact that caused the wreck, rubbing is racing. If i got mad at every time my Dad got wrecked and acted out like this, i would have had my tail kicked over and over. Tony is a dick head tony is a this and a that, Truth is none of that played a part in this young mans death. I am sure the last thing any one expected coming around that corner was someone dressed in black preparing to jump at the car, as my Dad said, when the caution comes out that is when he looks down and checks his gauges and makes sure the car is not over heating oil pressure what not. who even knows. but lets say that tony 100 percent saw him, and he hit the gas, I think if some one was running at my car i would wanna get by them as fast as possible also. Sadly fault lays with the young man who, did what all young men have and will do, since the beginning of time, that is over react.

+5 HS
Poison nuts's picture

I actually agree in full with this comment. It is at the end of the day Ward's emotion that caused it, I was simply stating Stewart may not be blameless. No insult toward you intended.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+5 HS
AWalk3r1's picture

I agree with you do not get me wrong, this is a great discussion, Sadly in this very optionated age, where we all are able to use hindsight to over analyze everything, sometimes the most important things are forgetten. We simplify someone. It is done every day weather it is with race sexuality or another thing. I do not know Kevin ward and nor am I a Fan of Tony's. Ward should not be judged by this act, but he will be, maily cause it was an act that was partly to blame for his lose of life, Tony who is judged by his antics and behavior, Is judge as an agressor in this, solely on his past actions. So to simplify this even further, No blame should be put on anyone.confutation  Like this one happen ever weekend at your local track. The differnce in this one, and to simplify it down to the bone, this was a freak accident. With my knowlege of dirt track racing, I see a little more of the complexities that maybe some people might not. Not in defesne but to help the over simplifiers see a little more. But fi we blame anyone, Lets blame Brady Hoke. go bucks !

+1 HS
Poison nuts's picture

One last thing - although I know nothing about racing a car on dirt track - I did used to film a lot of this type of racing several years ago. I'm a videographer & worked for a guy who promoted racing in Charlotte county Fl. I have never seen anything like any of what happened in this instance. The whole thing is seriously bizarre & a complete tragedy...

Anyways - yes, Go Bucks!

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+2 HS
Go1Bucks's picture

A driver's field of vision is restricted.  If Stewart was looking in the opposite direction, he may not have seen him.  And if he did, he may have tried to speed up to get past him.  That guy should not have been on the track, sad and stupid.  Prayers.

Go Bucks!

+1 HS
512buckeye's picture

Three other cars pass the guy without striking him, then Tony Stewart hits him. This is why you don't get out of your car.

Let's party, Columbus.

+2 HS
rbesr's picture

Three other cars pass him before he got into the middle of the track.

+3 HS
2002osubuck's picture

All the speculations pointless. A mans dead and that's all that matters. My prayers go out to his family. My younger brother was struck and killed by a drunk driver in 2005. The woman had no license and left the scene but was charged with vehicular homicide. Unfortunately, the "justice" system has a ridiculously low sentence for that charge. The woman served 6 months in a rehab facility and got probation. My point is, this should be about helping the young man's family with this tragedy, because when the "news" is over, that's what matters in the end. Regardless of who did what, how and why.

cdub4's picture

It isn't pointless. There is a huge difference between an accident and manslaughter.

+3 HS
2002osubuck's picture

My point is the kids dead and his families effected forever, regardless what happens legally. And having gone thru something like this, even if it's a crime the punishment isn't shit even though a life is lost. 

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

I'm sorry to hear about your brother and subsequent punishment or lack there of for the drunk driver but this is in no way similar to what happened to your brother.

Also, laws vary greatly from state to state and if Stewart was found to have done this at all with intent (even just to scare) there could be serious punishment both criminally and for his racing career.

I do agree though and I think most posters do, that everyone should keep the Wards in their thoughts and prayers.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

Kevin Ward was wearing a black helmet and black firesuit on a not-so-well lit track, so it's possible that Tony didn't see him, or he saw him too late.  He ran too far down the track to try to tell Tony that he wasn't happy with getting wrecked by him.  Drivers do this all of the time, but they don't usually get as close to the car driving by as Kevin did.  And you shouldn't get that close especially on a dirt track where cars have less grip than on the asphalt/concrete tracks of NASCAR.  Tony didn't do it on purpose, it was just a horrible accident.  I believe Kevin got hit by one of the right side tires, he didn't get hit head on by Tony's car. 

Stewart can be a dick, but he's not a murderer.

Class of 2010.

+5 HS
BassDropper's picture

Stewart can be a dick, but he's not a murderer.

Him being a dick led to him being a murderer. Whether he meant to kill him or if he was just trying to scare him, it led to the result that it did. 

And Im just curious, how do you really know if someone is a murderer or not...video evidence is not in his favor right now. Can you look at someone and determine they are a murderer? There are millions of cases worldwide of people not fitting the profile, but had a momentary lapse of judgement that led to someone dying. That is still murder.

It makes me sick that Im seeing comments/post (not on this site) that Ward was intentionally committing suicide, or he deserved what he got because he left his car.

DIRECTIONER

-10 HS
FloridaBuck's picture

And speaking of knowing things that you can't possibly know... You know that Stewart either meant to scare, or straight up hit him?  How the hell do you know that?  Are you secretly living a double life as Tony Stewart's consciousness?  The video tape shows absolutely nothing conclusive, and you weren't there. I'm assuming you aren't a part of his race team or family. I'm also assuming you aren't associated in any direct way with anyone else who was racing that day. 

I could care less about nascar and don't know a damn thing about Tony Stewart as a person. However, jumping to conclusions about murder seems a little ridiculous in this scenario. 

+2 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Truth is, nobody can know for sure what really happened. I'm of the mind set now that he may have been culpable, & he may be completely & totally innocent of any wrong doing. I'll let time sort it all out.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+2 HS
BroJim's picture

Murder -the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another

Stop throwing lables around, Bass. At this point premeditated cant be proven or disprove.

Like im sure others have said, let's wait a little and keep young Mr. Ward close to our hearts.

I season my simple food with hunger

+3 HS
BassDropper's picture

murder isn't always premeditated. 

DIRECTIONER

-9 HS
BroJim's picture

You should have specified degree then, it's an all-encompassing term.

The point is, stop labeling people.

I season my simple food with hunger

+4 HS
FloridaBuck's picture

Correct. It's not. However, your description of him hitting the dude in the middle of the track, on purpose, in a vehicle, at a high rate of speed, would be considered murder or vehicular homicide with intent to inflict great bodily harm. That is premeditation. 

+2 HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

From everything I have read, it seems that the throttle is the best way to actually control these types of cars. As such, you'd hear Stewart's engine rev when coming out of a turn, or even if trying to avoid Ward if he had seen him at the last minute. I am not a Stewart fan, but I do not personally think that he hit the other driver or purpose, nor do I believe by any definition that he is a murderer. What happened was tragic, and had a significant amount to do with the actions of the deceased to be honest. 

From what I have seen and heard, there was possibly very little Stewart could have done to avoid the incident if he did not see Ward quickly enough. Before we start piling on the guy, who in all likelihood feels badly enough about what happened, let's get all of the facts. It is best to neither acquit nor convict anyone until the most information and evidence possible can be gleaned from the facts and thoughts of those involved.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

+1 HS
GlueFingers Lavelli's picture

The toughest part with him gunning the throttle is that it's common in sprint car racing during caution for drivers to kick the ass end of the car sideways to keep the tires warm. If you watch a sprint car race you will see how common it is, especially right after a tire change. I believe it was said that Stewart recently changed tires before the incident. I'm not defending anyone, but it's certainly plausible that he was gunning it through the corner to kick it sideways to keep his tires warm. It could honestly be so many things, that only Tony Stewart will ever truly know. If you forced me to guess I would say that Stewart knew Ward was getting out of his car, and Stewart decided he was going to "warm his fresh tires" by gunning it in front of Ward, while at the same time sort of rubbing it in his face that he ran him up the wall. Sort of a student-pupil moment. The old veteran known nationwide reminding the kid who they each were respectively. I don't think it was ever Stewarts intention to hit Ward. I'm guessing that when Stewart entered the turn he didn't see Ward because Ward was clear down in the center of the track and was almost hit by the car in front of Stewart. So Stewart assumes that Ward is back up by his car, and guns it into the turn, not knowing Ward is in the process of dodging the first car, Ward steps back right into Tony's path(higher line on track), and Stewart strikes Ward not seeing him, and potentially while in a controlled slide which would make it harder to brake.  Only Tony Stewart really knows what happened, but that's how I saw it. I don't think Stewart had any reason to be the aggressor given that all he did was push Ward up the turn and caused Ward to lose his line, Ward was clearly out of control and upset. He was his own worst enemy in that moment, and I don't Stewart realized how far down the track Ward was. Is it possible that a young kid just wanted to make a name for himself by getting into it with a nascar racer for publicity or to prove something to himself?

Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.

-1 HS
brandonbauer87's picture

It seems like many of you have an axe to grind about vehicular manslaughter. People die in racing accidents from time to time. It's terrible. It's dangerous. There doesn't have to be someone punished. The guy should have waited until the track was clear. Plain and simple. 

+6 HS
NorthwestOhioBuck's picture

My only question because I don't know of the track, how far away could the drivers see that Ward was out of his car? Was it a quick oh crap he's right there! Or could he be seen down the straightaway?

In Urban we trust. That is all

+2 HS
KingsRite's picture

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” -Urban Meyer-

+8 HS
thowen79's picture

Thank you! I'm so sick of people who have never been around sprint car dirt track racing accusing Stewart of being irresponsible or worse when they have no clue what it's like being in that situation. I don't race but have spent enough time around sprint car racing and in the pits to know it's extremely dangerous for pedestrians who are not acting safely. Let alone on the racetrack!

+1 HS
smithwessonBuckeye's picture

Just thought I would leave this here for those who haven't been around Sprint Cars. This track in the photo does not have a high degree of banking, similar to the track in N.Y. that the incident took place. Now imagine a dimly lit raceway with a racer in a dark fire suit and dark helmet with the view of the racer scene from here. 

+7 HS
KingsRite's picture

Also, If you watch a good quality video version of the accident with the audio. The engine rev appears to come from the 45 car that is in front of Stewart. It appears he loses a little traction or just revs it out of disgust. I also hear what sounds like a brake squeal or some type of high pitched noise during the moment of impact.

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” -Urban Meyer-

+1 HS
Poison nuts's picture

I now think it was just a shitty, terrible accident, but the engine revving is Stewarts engine. For sure.

Edit: I'll withdrawal how I said that & say that it's simply my educated opinion that it was Stewart's engine, which I talked about in depth above.. While I'm convinced, my wording wasn't the best way to say it.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

-3 HS
HeuermanTheFireman's picture

Tonys rep as a hothead is not working in his favor now. I don't believe Tony would purposely hit someone and I don't think he had time to react (if he saw the kid at all). You have to remember there is a ton going on in and around the car. Dirt isn't easy to drive on. It sucks that one bad decision, in the heat of the moment, cost the departed his life.

The person responsible for toes clearly wanted you to stub them.

+1 HS
KingsRite's picture

Go back and watch the video closely. Tony's car is not even in the camera shot when the engine rev is heard. Whoever is filming this appears to be using a camera with a fairly directional microphone. One car is in the shot when the engine rev is heard, the 45 car ahead of Tony. The only sound you can hear from Tony's car is a high pitched whine or squeal like locked up tires or brakes at point of impact. 

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” -Urban Meyer-

+1 HS
11UrbzAndSpices's picture

After watching the video, all I can say is that it's a very bizarre situation with a lot of ambiguity and probably nothing will ever be proven definitively. So why argue it?

Cardale Jones. Cardale Jones! CARDALE JONES!!

+1 HS
ponder10's picture

A couple things...

1) Not sure why I just watched that.

2) I dont know much about NASCAR and even less about dirt track but it seems like there is a lot of drifting in dirt track and when Ward got out of his car he was making a lot of erratic movements down the track as if he was trying to step right in from of Tony's car.

3) I dont know how anyone could reasonably say the "rev" of the engine was from Stewart's car.

4) The point of impact wasnt really on camera but it actually appears as his car comes into the frame Tony is fishtailing trying to avoid the situation which leads me to believe it wasnt intentional.

5) Sad tragedy

“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum

ponder10's picture

How does one take away a helmet sticker for the comment above? Was I insensitive in any way?

“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum

+2 HS
ronbizi's picture

Just accept it, it just happens on this site.  You'll also learn quickly about what happens when you question/complain about downvotes.  I'm hoping our fellow 11W community will refrain from teaching a newbie like you a lesson.   This is my favorite OSU website, but nonetheless you can't avoid all trolls.  Here's an upvote for a trying to contribute.

+3 HS
Frimmel's picture

I've read the engine rev is likely from trying to steer around Ward. Given the cars are drifting throttle is required in any attempts at steering.