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Anything Else Forum

Offtopicland. This still isn't the place to discuss politics, religion, or hot-button social issues, however.

Ohio is much safer than Chicago

cinserious's picture
July 7, 2014 at 7:20pm
51 Comments

~~Chicago's Fourth of July weekend toll: 82 people shot, 14 of them fatally

I just read this MSN headline and all I could say was WOW!

 

 

 

703Buckeye's picture

That's insane! I recently watched a documentary about the Chicago city schools; needless to say, that system is a complete disaster. The sad thing is that I can only see things getting worse there.

"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter

+4 HS
cinserious's picture

We all know of Chi-town's gangster history and it is one of America's largest cities but damn! That is a lot of shootings and killings in only 3 days. I've never been to Chicago and am not trying to disparage the city. I want to visit one day and ride the L-train, watch a Cubs game, etc. One of my good friends grew up in Chicago (back in the early 90's) and he said the gangs there were hardcore as were the projects like Cabrini Green, Robert Taylor Homes, etc. were as bad as it gets. Stretches of projects the cops would not patrol because people would take potshots at them, Project towers where people would take shots out the window into Comiskey Park (White Sox) on the Southside. These are the stories I heard back in the 90's.

Most of the projects have been demolished by now but it seems like the Mexican cartels have taken hold of Chicago and opened up shop on in it's neighborhoods. A ridiculous amount of violence has ensued in recent years as a result, even for Chicago's standards.

Here in Ohio we might have a good deal of towns and cities with drug and violence problems and plenty of large cities like Cincinnati and Cleveland with an abundance of 'hoods but nowhere in Ohio is it as bad as Chicago. Hell, the Southside of Chicago probably has more bodies than any city in Ohio on a yearly basis. 

Gone ham, be back soon...

+4 HS
cajunbuckeye's picture

Chicago makes New Orleans look like Mayberry.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

+2 HS
cinserious's picture

I got wasted in the French Quarter on my first visit last year. Woke up a few miles down St. Charles ave. on a park bench with all my $$$ gone. At least they had the decency to leave me my credit card so I could walk across the street to the quickie mart and purchase an O.J. which came right back out shortly thereafter. A cabbie was nice enough to give me a lift back to the French Q (I was supposed to bring him some fare back from my room but passed out)

Gone ham, be back soon...

+2 HS
cajunbuckeye's picture

You chose wisely and stumbled in the right direction. The city is relatively safe unless you venture into the wrong areas.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

+1 HS
Seattle Linga's picture

That statement Cajun is applicable to every major city on this planet --- IMO.

+1 HS
Bolt's picture

Went down to New Orleans for the NCG vs LSU years back. Was still in very rough shape at that point. We stayed in a hotel away from the French Quarter to save money. The hotels surrounding ours were all abandoned and trailer parks were all around. Entire neighborhoods in the vicinity were completely vacated. We took a wrong turn looking for the liquor store and drove into one of the abandoned neighborhoods and a pack of 15 or so dogs were just roaming the streets. It was one of the most surreal things I'd ever seen, a pack of wild dogs of all different breeds just running around the neighborhood like they owned the place. 

+2 HS
OSUStu's picture

I spent part of my spring break one year in New Orleans and stayed in the French Quarter.  After grabbing some breakfast, my buddy and I were walking down the sidewalk.  Since we were chatting and not paying attention, I walked right into a large sticky/slick puddle of blood.  I looked to my right and there was blood spatter on the door of the building next to us, looked to my left and there was smeared blood on a car.  It was a lot of blood...we booked it out of there and back to the hotel.

I am pretty sure someone was shot on that spot the night before, and it hadn't been cleaned up.  It was pretty disturbing.

If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.  ~ Bruce Lee

+1 HS
buckeyedude's picture

My nephew, aged 23, was murdered in cold blood three years after Hurricane Katrina, in the French Quarter. He played in a jazz band there, and was shot in the chest, even though he gave the thug his wallet.

 

 

+2 HS
cinserious's picture

Sorry to hear that Buckeyedude. It could happen to any of us in any inner city. I am a proponent of concealed carry just in case that situation comes up. I've gotten held up at gunpoint a few times growing up in one of Cincy's hoods. Luckily I survived and didn't do what first came to mind by taking one of my dad's guns and exacting a little justice on the thugs!

Gone ham, be back soon...

+1 HS
One Bad Buckeye's picture

Cinserious, do you happen to have a link to the article?  

"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."

One Bad Buckeye's picture

Muchas gracias primo!

"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."

+1 HS
buckeyeinthechi's picture

I remember living there years back, and while driving to work one morning they were celebrating a 24 hour period in which no homicides happened.

CELEBRATED

Chicago is a great place to visit (not live).....just STAY AWAY from the west/south side.

There are three different types of people in the world.....those who can count, and those who cannot.

+4 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

Like most large geographical areas, Chicago is cursed by a few crappy people ruining it for a bunch of cool ones. You are, not surprisingly, speaking in pretty broad terms when you bash Chicago's south side. There are plenty of crappy areas in large urban areas, and the South Side of Chicago has gotten this rep as being a really tough place and parts of it are. There are also parts-the Beverly Neighborhood and Mount Greenwood that have some of the most scenic neighborhoods and safest streets. The problem is that areas like the wild 100's, Englewood, Brighton Park, and Gage Park that are really, really rough.

Also pretty unfair to stick "Cartel problems" on Chicago. More so "Project towers where people would take shots out the window into Comiskey Park (White Sox) on the Southside." is the most asenine thing I have ever read. The projects were across the street from Comiskey, the problem is that the street is I-94 which happens to be a 4 lane highway, samwiched between Wentworth Ave and LaSalle street, with Federal Street forming a larger barrier between the projects, LaSalle, the highway, Wentworth, and ultimately the park so technically it was across 6 streets (and plenty of land in between). You are only talking about an area that is roughly a mile long but what ever. You were more likely to get hit by a Frank Thomas homer in the 90's than you were a bullet, but keep coming with the weak information.

Is Chicago a perfect city? Of course not. It has a pretty out of control gun problem that is unaffected by strict gun regulation because those that cause the problems care little for any law, let alone gun control laws.

My point here-you paint Chicago as a cesspool but there are more nice areas than bad ones, and the nicest of the nicest places beat the pants off of anything 'cities' like Columbus have. You crossed a line with me attacking Chicago with half truths and watered down opinions (still seething about shooting at US Cell\Comiskey). Check yourself.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

-3 HS
chitown buckeye's picture

Great assessment! 

"I'm having a heart attack!"

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

More so "Project towers where people would take shots out the window into Comiskey Park (White Sox) on the Southside." is the most asenine (sic) thing I have ever read. .

LINK

+11 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

"The possibility exists but the shots didn't necessarily have to come from the projects"

That article proves nothing. Just that shots were fired in the South Side of Chicago. In other news, Coffee is often served hot.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

-6 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Well it does prove a number of things...

Stories of shots being fired at Comiskey were well known at the time (there are earlier articles in print discussing the claim). Bullets were definitely found in seats & it's possible that they came from Robert Taylor (even if only the form of a self fulfilling prophecy).

Oops, almost forgot:

Comiskey bullet probe points to Taylor Home

+5 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

Because the Chicago Sun Times never has gotten anything wrong before. Nor has every bullet ever fired ever missed its intended target and gone elsewhere.

How's the rest of that article go?

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

-6 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

I think we've safely established that Cinserious isn't responsible for the most asinine thing ever read.
 

+4 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

Oh so its the superlative you took issue with? The comment that kicked this off was the 'firing shots out of the window' thing which isn't the same as "Military grade weapon fired from a roof top". The Robert Taylor Home rooftops were notorious for being a locale for drug deals that often ended in blood shed. Stray bullet is more likely. I'll back down on the fact that a bullet couldn't reach the park-clearly with the right weaponry you can, the idea that people were shooting at the park from their apartment windows-windows that often time didn't even open-still remains incredibly asinine.

At the very least, thank you for engaging in a debate. I'm failing to see anything I said that was down vote worthy but what do I know. I presume someone capable of engaging in conversation isn't often the down voting type so you have my thanks.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

-3 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Oh so its the superlative you took issue with? The comment that kicked this off was the 'firing shots out of the window' thing which isn't the same as "Military grade weapon fired from a roof top".

There's a lot less of a difference than the two quoted phrases suggest. "Military grade weapon" just means "scary black rifle". There's nothing particularly unique about the ballistics of a 5.56 (AR15) or 7.62x39 (AK). The location of the holes & the shape of the stadium mean that the bullets could only have realistically come from one area.

(Off topic but ... The old Comiskey was a beautiful little park while the new stadium is ridiculously inefficient w/space. Also, I've never understand why it wasn't rotated 180 degrees to give fans a view of the Sears Tower & downtown.)

The bullet holes found in new Comiskey is a well known story and the urban legend goes back even further. It was just a mystery to me how one could possibly get worked up & imply the story is ridiculous when there is a very real (& easily verifiable) back story to it.

Arguing that it was likely gang members doing the shooting doesn't run counter to the original post by Cinserious, if anything it tends to support it. I don't think anyone assumed that it was little old grandmas shooting out their windows. That there are severe crime issues in south Chicago (thanks Daley clan!), isn't exactly a big secret.

If it helps, in New York there have been at least two people who were actually shot watching baseball games in the stadium. A pregnant woman was hit in the hand at a Yankees game in the mid 80's and a man was killed by a stray bullet while watching the Dodgers & Giants at the Polo Grounds back in the early 50's.

+2 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

Shooting from the roof tops doesn't equal "where people would take shots out the window into Comiskey Park (White Sox) on the Southside". Still remains ridiculous.

I'm also not arguing about the type of person doing the shooting, rather the intent of the bullet fired. It is no mystery that the RTH were a cesspool where crime ran rampant. Shooting into the stadium from a window didn't happen-its what the comment said-its what I called asinine-it remains a stupid comment.

The idea that a bullet came from a roof top after a crime went awry is a hell of a lot more likely than "taking shots out the window into Comiskey Park (White Sox) on the Southside". You can spin it how you want it-I'm aware of the stories about the bullet holes but the comment I took issue with-and continue to have issue with is the idea that someone looked at the park, opened a window (that doesn't open) and fired a shot (s) at the stadium. That's what was implied-that's not what happened.

As for the off topic-it took the Sox years (and a sweet deal with US Cellular) to make that stadium anything but hideous. Its actually a really gorgeous park now. Simply changing the color of the seats from the blue to the green had a profound affect on the aesthetics. They have continued to make a modern stadium have the visuals of an old time original. I hated New Comiskey, I LOVE the Cell. As for the angle-my guess is that they knew the projects were coming down, maybe some sort of gentrification was supposed to occur giving it a better view? Only thing I can figure. It defies reason to think they thought the current (at the time) landscape would be a better view unless there was reason to think it would improve. Regardless, it beats the tar out of Wrigley. The area's aren't comparable but neither are the stadiums.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

-4 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

You need to step back a bit. I'm not spinning anything. I don't have any emotional investment in the topic.

Given the location & proximity of the holes (I viewed a actual diagram of the impacts long ago) it's almost certain they came from one of the high rise buildings and that some feature on the stadium was the target (rather than just being an impact area beyond a far removed target). Yes, it is plausible that rounds were fired from the interior of the building on a higher floor (just as it is they came from the roof). A few tens of feet difference in the firing point is not very significant at that range.

As I said I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm looking at the data objectively without attempting to make it fit a personal platform. Someone in Robert Taylor Homes almost certainly took a shot at new Comiskey. Said person was probably not from the 'law abiding' subset of people who lived in the building. It's likely they did so after reading a newspaper story about people shooting at the stadium being an urban myth. It happened. So what? Being antagonistic & pedantic over specific details isn't going to make it the incident look any better. Just as the incident in and of itself is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things.

+1 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

(Off topic but ... The old Comiskey was a beautiful little park while the new stadium is ridiculously inefficient w/space. Also, I've never understand why it wasn't rotated 180 degrees to give fans a view of the Sears Tower & downtown.)

I never understood it either.  I went to a game earlier this year (Jeter's last in US Cellular).  It doesn't make sense for the stadium just to face open air and the rest of the southside instead of facing north towards downtown.  Decent ballpark though; the outfield is pretty cool.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

Poison nuts's picture

Brewster, I love you man - as much as an anonymous internet poster can anyway - but on the subject of why were those dv's raining in, I'll hazard a guess...

the nicest of the nicest places beat the pants off of anything 'cities' like Columbus have.

I mean, you're on an OSU board & you went to school there, so you've gotta know a line like this is going to fire up a lot of people regarding one of their state's finest cities...a city which is the home of the football team that we're all here to talk about. No dv's from me - not even remotely my style, but I'm guessing that was the cause. Don't want to be involved in an argument with anyone, but I'd read this exchange & figured I'd point that out.

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

+1 HS
cinserious's picture

~~Scarlet_Lutefisk: You are a great American!

Gone ham, be back soon...

+1 HS
cinserious's picture

@Brewster: Like I said, I don't mean to disparage Chicago in any way and I still want to visit. My account from the 90's is purely based off of one person who lived and grew up in Chicago and spent a good deal of his time in the Southside. 

As for present day Chicago? i'm purely going off of MSN articles the last few years, no offense whatsoever and I still would love to visit.

Gone ham, be back soon...

+3 HS
Rocket Man's picture

Willie Cunningham, is that you?

Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can put off indefinitely.

+3 HS
DannyBeane's picture

I love going to Chicago multiple times a year. If you stay in the Hipster/artsy/touristy areas. You're probably as safe as can be. Just avoid the hood and you'll be fine.

+1 HS
Ahh Saturday's picture

I Came to Chicago in 1992 and have never left the city.  I've lived in plenty of neighborhoods over the years and enjoyed all of them. I've lived on the south side (ok, Hyde Park), the west side (Humboldt Park), and all over the north side, and am now raising a family in Lincoln Square, which I regard as an ideal place to raise children.  After all these years, amazingly, I have yet to shoot anyone, or be shot. For those who would criticize the public school system, well, there is plenty to criticize, but it is also worth noting that some of the best schools in the state of Illinois are part of CPS.

When people base their opinions of a city of nearly 3 million people based on a TV show they saw, something a friend told them, an article they read, or a visit to the Shedd Aquarium and Navy Pier, it's a pretty sure thing they don't really know what they're talking about. Bottom line is city living isn't for everyone, but for those of us who love it, we love Chicago.

+1 HS
sox33osu's picture

"When people base their opinions of a city of nearly 3 million people based on a TV show they saw, something a friend told them, an article they read...it's a pretty sure thing they don't really know what they're talking about"

OSU football fans can relate to this. 

Chicago is a cool town. I've been there 4 times in the last year and a half and loved it. Caught games at both Wrigley and Comiskey, spent some time on the north side in Evanston (beautiful), and had a great time overall. It's not breaking news that a large city has terrible parts. Columbus is one of the easiest cities in the nation to live in and I personally had 2 guns put to my face in my college life, but also had way, way more fun times. Shit happens anywhere and everywhere. 

+1 HS
FROMTHE18's picture

Ohio is also a state and Chicago is a city. Considering how many people live in Chicago, the numbers aren't that surprising, especially when you consider how rough the south side is. 

+2 HS
OSUStu's picture

I have to agree here. Comparing crime in a major metropolitan area to an entire state isn't really fair. The metro area will lose that contest every time. And you can't really look at raw incident numbers, you have to look at crime rates. And since we seem to be pointing primarily to homicides here, unfortunately,Ohio's large cities are fairly comparable to Chicago. In 2012, Chicago had a murder rate of 18.5 per 100,000 population. Cincinnati was at 15.5 and Cleveland was at 21.3. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.  ~ Bruce Lee

+3 HS
OSUStu's picture

Double post.

If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.  ~ Bruce Lee

Toolface4's picture

I livedd in Bridgeport (comiskey park area) and had no problems at any part of the day or night. Now live further South (mt. Greenwood) and no problems. There are three or four neighborhoods where the majority of the shootings happen.

BrewstersMillions's picture

Yep. A few crazy people ruin it for a lot of cool people.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

hit_the_couch's picture

14 in one day is crazy. I thought my neighborhood, here in Columbus, had a lot at 5 in the last 18 months. I don't really live in a bad area either.

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

+1 HS
40 Degrees North's picture

I saw Indianapolis had a rough weekend too. Seven people were shot in a section of the city called Broad Ripple. The next night, an Indianapolis cop was shot and killed. It was the eighth Indianapolis cop that was hit with gunfire in the last 18 months. Indianapolis is on pace for 160-170 homicides this year. 

-1 HS
EvanstonBuckeye's picture

When folks go out for the 4th celebration with guns in their hands (not making a statement about gun control, so much as frame of mind), bad shit is bound to go down. I'm not a huge Rahm Emanuel fan on all fronts, but those calling for him to "do more" when they know their neighbors and, possibly, family members are gang-bangers packing heat is passing the buck on a monumental scale. It's a sad and complex situation.

+1 HS
cdub4's picture

If I could live in any city in America, I would probably choose Chicago, definitely be in my top 3....so much to do, very scenic...I really want to visit again soon.

Zaphod Beeblebrox's picture

Being a big fan of blues music there are three place I have to visit...Chicago, Memphis & Austin.

sbentz4's picture

It is so hard to say what cities are the most dangerous when all of the statistics are altered or measured differently.   I live in Chicago and it is pretty dangerous, but most major cities are to be honest.  It is so sad to say that Chicago is not dangerous when there are constantly shootings.  Just because you have never been shot or your neighborhood is mostly safe doesn't make things ok.  There is still a lot of violent crime in bad and nice neighborhoods in Chicago.  Something has to change, look at all the outrage from citizens of Chicago.

+1 HS
Ahh Saturday's picture

You are conflating two separate points.  Your first point is whether or not "Chicago" is safe, and the answer for that is that it absolutely depends on what neighborhood you live in.  Just because a neighborhood like, say, Englewood is dangerous does not make Lincoln Square dangerous even though both are a part of Chicago.  Your second point that it is "sad" that there are "constantly shootings" and that "something has to change" is absolutely true.  The segregation of violence in Chicago is indeed a problem and one that asks many uncomfortable questions of us all, but once again that doesn't make my neighborhood in Chicago any more dangerous than some supposedly "safe" neighborhood in Ohio.  

sbentz4's picture

Chicago is pretty dangerous in general, but obviously all neighborhoods are not the same.  Lincoln square may be safer than austin but the crime is not completely isolated by neighborhood.  A drug deal went bad and someone got shot in Lincoln square only a couple of months ago.  Someone just got shot at Montrose beach a few weeks ago.  The crime spills over into other communities, look at the flash mobs in Mag MIle.  I agree that most crime occurs in the bad neighborhoods, but its not like there is a fence confining these criminals.  Shootings at Navy Pier, Montrose beach, etc are good examples of crime in bad neighborhoods spreading to others.  It is difficult to compare what cities are most dangerous and to compare a major city to a state makes no sense, but to pretend that things on the south and west sides don't affect you is wrong.  It is probably the reason why things are so slow to change.

+1 HS
Ahh Saturday's picture

Going back to 2007, there have been 193 homicides in Garfield Park, 232 in Lawndale, 256 in Austin and 327 in Englewood.  During that same period there have been 6 homicides in Lincoln Park, 5 in Lincoln Square, 3 in Beverly and none at all in Mt. Greenwood.  The difference couldn't be more stark.  Yes, the city changes dramatically based on where exactly you live.

+3 HS
Rob Reese's picture

In fairness, Chicago isn't the cesspool our bankrupt neighbors to the north boast about (Detroit), but it's close.  Real close.  One wrong turn and you're nearly uninsurable.

-1 HS
EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Hmmm.... that may be a bit extreme. Washington DC is very much a situation where beautiful neighborhoods can change into shit-holes within two blocks. To get to Englewood, Austin, and the other extremely violent Chicago neighborhoods, you're going through blocks and blocks of increasingly downtrodden areas. To not notice it's getting rough, you'd have to be pretty oblivious.
 

+2 HS
808buckeye's picture

Da Bears!!!

A Cat Named Pickles

RickKaneWasHere's picture

I think Chicago's a has-been.

Houston is where it's at.

- The Rick

Can you put the past away?