PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
Holy balls, what a trade deadline.
who all did we trade?
Sieve Mason to Philly for Leighton AND a 3rd round pick (2015) - trade raped (it's from "The League" - I'm not suggesting anyone actually got raped here).
John Moore, Derrick Brassard, Derek Dorsett, and 6th round pick (2014) to NYR for Marian Gaborik, Steve Delisle (who we traded in the Nash deal), and Blake Parlett. Ironically enough, we could have drafted Gaborik in 2000 if we won the coin flip with Minnesota.
5th round pick to Calgary for Blake Comeau (basically a clone of Dorsett with less fights).
I'm not really a hockey fan but I'm not sure I love this trade. Brassard and Dorsett seem like 2 guys they don't want to move.
Brassard has underachieved his whole career. Outside of his shifts on the power play, I couldn't care less that he's gone. Get rid of $3.2 cap hit as well.
Dorsett - eh, he's injured right now anyway. Plus, he's just a true grinder - nothing special offensively and Boller and Prout will fight. Not sure he adds much with the emergence of Calvert and Atkinson forechecking so well.
Moore - I liked him. Real big guy who is one of the better skaters I've seen. He can pass well, but he's been a healthy scratch recently. Not terrible considering we have Erixon, Prout, Goloubef, and Ryan Murray all as young guys - 2 or 3 of whom will have to play 75+ games next year.
Holy crap they are active! Also heard that they were in the Pominville sweepstakes before he was dealt to Minny. Heard we are discussing stafford of buffalo for the kings 1st rounder?
Trade deadline was 3:00 p.m. May have happened, but I think Stafford would be worth more than just a 1st rounder.
IIRC it's 3 pm mountain west time. Stafford is having a rough year and has a decent sized contract, so maybe we could get him on the cheap this year?
my bad, you were right about it being 3pm. Good call!
This trade deadline was fantastic for the CBJ. They got Gaborik without losing a 1st, they dumped Mason for Leighton+a 3rd round pick, and they added Comeau (Dorsett with a little more offense) for a 5th round pick.
I'll miss Dorsett, a hard worker who never complained, and I'm a little concerned that Brassard might still develop into something. It's good to see the Jackets being buyers for once, though, and all the first rounders are still here--plus, our pick from the Rangers is looking more and more like it might be our highest pick this summer.
Getting a third rounder and a warm body for the last month of Mason's tenure in Columbus is an insane steal.
So with Moore and Brassard gone, this means Johansen is now the only former first round pick on the current team? Wow.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Johansen and Murray. Who, outside of Rick Nash, are probably the only sensible 1st round picks Columbus has ever made.
I still think Moore will develop in a top 4 defensemen fairly quickly. Just too many bodies on the D Line right now to get ice time in Cbus.
The Rangers now have 3 of our former 1st round picks (Nash, Brass, Moore).
The whole division next year will be littered with CBJ players - New York, Philly, etc.
Agreed on Moore, but the CBJ have Murray, Erixon, Goloubef, Prout and Savard. His loss doesn't hurt at all.
Pump the brakes there fellas. Anything you gave up for Gaborik is too much. He's a dog who's playing at a whopping -9 right now. He's also lost a ton of the explosiveness that made him so great in Minnesota-when he was healthy. Guy's played a full slate only 4 times in his career. I really don't see how he makes you better at all. The Mason trade was nice-not shocking at all Philly just handed you a draft pick. Leighton is a non issue, the third is always nice, seeing that's when he was picked anyway. You always hate to see trading a former first rounder for like a 4th-just a friendly reminder that your team jacked up the draft pick in the first place.
You mugged Philly no doubt, anything for Mason is a plus but Leighton is a total bum. New York took you to the wood shed. Sorry.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
I'll buy that he's overpaid and past his prime, but he still instantly becomes the Jackets' best wing--and all they give up is an injured grinder, a defensemen who is interchangeable with several other guys in the organization, and a mediocre center who is still "developing" in his fifth season. Worth the gamble.
But now with Brassard gone, the Jackets really need Johansen to get his head out of his ass. That's looking like a draft day risk that blew up on the part of the old regime.
Lol wut? Johansen has been fantastic since his call up from Springfield. Have you been watching the games? It's not his fault that Umberger couldn't hit a barn with an elephant.
What exactly did NYR get? Brassard is a bust, Dorsett is easily replaceable (he was replaced by Comeau today), and Moore is a young, talented Dman, but the CBJ have Erixon, Murray, Goloubef, Prout and Savard already. Gaborik is hardly a 'dog'. He's scored 105 goals the past three seasons. He's 31, but has the ability to play for at least 4 more years. Also to say he lacks explosiveness is silly, he scored 41 goals last year. If he wasn't playing for an ultimate shit-head like John Tortorella, who has been playing him on the 4th freaking line, he'd have more than 9 goals, and a better +/-. Also citing +/- as a major factor of a player's ability/production is ridiculous. +/- is such an overrated statistic in ice hockey...
Absolutely incorrect. Plus\Minus is over rated to to people who don't like to hear what the stat has to say. It is a telling sign of what happens when a guy is on the ice-especially for forwards who see less ice time on average than D men anyway. Marian Gaborik is harming his team more than he is helping it. That's what a -9 says. I would argue that 105 goals in 3 seasons is the more over rated statistic on its surface because you don't know where those goals are coming from and when they are occurring. Dany Heatley made himself a ton of money on garbage goals in garbage time. +\- is an indication of what you are doing on both sides of the ice. New York doesn't allow a lot of goals-5th best in the league with 2.4 per but is 30th in goals for. He's a -9 on a team that doesn't allow goals and is part of the reason they aren't scoring them. I really don't know how +\- is treated as over rated. Its the stat that tells me more than any other, with the exception of maybe GTG\GWG and PPG\PPA. In conjunction with ice time, +\- should tell you plenty about a player and Gaborik's minus 9 tells me all I need to know.
1) He's an offensive winger that has been placed on the 4th line. How is he supposed to produce offense when he's playing with guys that are simple grinders, and not capable of hitting the broadside of a barn?
2) Plus/minus is so overrated when you have a shit defense in New York (they're 18th on the PK which is a better indicator of defense than GAA), a goalie that is getting peppered with shots in Lundqvist, and an idiot coach in Tortorella that is trying to cram square pegs into a round hole by forcing his defensive, shot-blocking concepts on a team filled with offensive minded players. Basically Tortorella is trying to go off-roading in a Ferrari right now.
3) Example of how +/- is hardly indicative of a player's impact: Matt Calvert of the CBJ. He has +/- of -11 on the season, but anyone that has watched the CBJ would tell you that he's been anything but detrimental to the team.
1) He's an offensive winger who still only averages out about a +6 over the course of his career so he's never been an impactfull guy. The +\- is telling for guys exactly like Gaborik. They have a lot of nice goal and assist totals but you can't figure out why they can't put their team anywhere. Gaborik, the aforementioned Heatley, Ilya Kovalchuk-All guys who's inflated (sometimes eye popping numbers) don't mean a lick of difference for their team because they allow the opposition good looks just as quick as they score a highlight reel goal.
2) PK isn't more telling of a good defensive team than GAA, I'm not sure why you feel that way. 1\3 is a bad night on the PK, but if that 1 is the only one you allow, you're winning more times than you are losing. Simple as that.
3) That isn't an example of anything. Jonathan Toews is a +20, one of the Hawks' leading ice time forwards, and the Hawks are the best team in the NHL. Sidney Crosby is a +26, is one of the Pens leading ice time forwards, and they are the best team in the East, a close second to Chicago. Sheldon Sourray and Francois Beauchemin are the best D tandem in the NHL right now and are a combined +47 and pose the biggest threat to Chicago's run to the Cup. You can attribute some of the + or - the a players linemates but once you cross out of -5 territory, a lot of that falls on you. Calvert is no exception.
Couldn't edit, but here's more:
4) This can't be stated enough, but he's no longer playing for a massive shit-head in Tortorella. The guy is a mega-douche, and decided to sit Gaborik on the 4th line or bench him throughout this season. It's amazing that Gaborik even has 20 points when he's been benched or played on the 4th line so much. Why do you think Richards play has suffered as well? Tortorella is driving the Rangers into the ground. I'd be amazed if he isn't fired after the season's end.
5) You mentioned that when the goals are scored factors into the importance or value of the amount of goals scored, and Gaborik has 4 game winning goals this season, which is the same amount as guys like John Tavares, Eric Staal, Ilya Kovalchuk, Derek Stepan, Joe Pavelski, and Evander Kane. And more than guys like Jonathan Toews, Taylor Hall, Henrik Zetterberg, Daniel Sedin and Zach Parise.
6)PK% is a better indicator of defense, and especially team defense, as you're down a man, and it emphasizes a team's ability to close off passing lanes, prevent zone entry, and block shots. I don't see how that is hard to comprehend.
7) Career +/- is overrated too. Jack Johnson has a career+/- of -92, but he's been anything but detrimental to the Blue Jackets.
Long term-how does he help CBJ? Scratch that-beyond this year how does he help? He's at the end of an injury plagued career and on the last year of a stupid money deal. CBJ winning the cup? They resigning him next year? New York won this deal in the long run. As for Gab's 4 Game Winners-that's impressive. I can't argue that point, almost half of his goals are deciders.
No it isn't. It can also be misleading. Teams can be great defensively and not take a ton of penalties. When said team allows a PP goal on a sparse PK attempt, the percentages get skewed. NYR is in tied for 17th in PPGA but tied for 6th in fewest times short handed. So their 2.4 GAA per game combined with their lack of penalties tells me more that they are a good defensive team despite what their 'tell all' PK Percentage says. I'M not sure what's so hard to comprehend. New York's problem is offense. Why would they trade away an offensive 'dynamo' like Gaborik....unless they know something Columbus doesn't. They acquired a guy based on past performance he is incapable of recapturing. Now, if the other guys CBJ got help them for years down the road, you might have a chance of winning this trade but if (when) CBJ doesn't resign Gaborik next year, they basically got nothing out of him, seeing as though they aren't going to the post season this year-or very far if they eek themselves into it.
8) Yes, because Columbus is winning games hand over fist with -92 on their roster....
I don't understand the pushback on this trade. Gaborik is signed through '14. CBJ give up no players of their future, keep all their picks. Gaborik is 31, he has another 3-4 years in his prime. They needed scoring up front, what else could/should they have done. Can't win at 2 goals a game. Gaborik gives them a game changing forward. You can't look at stats this year, Torts had him on the fourth line. So, if this trade was so bad, what other options did they have? Stop hating on this trade simply because its a trade. Spoiler: you have to give up pieces to try and get better.
This. I can't understand the opposition to adding a guy that scores. Also who says the CBJ aren't going to make the playoffs? They're a point out of 8th place with 12 games to go. They have the hottest goalie in the NHL, play solid defense, and just added one of the best pure scorers in the league to their line up. You honestly think Gaborik is going to have a hard time scoring when he is receiving slick passes from Johansen? Johansen has been dazzling all season long, and if he had a player like Gaborik on his line earlier, instead of deadweight like Umberger, or a guy who is really a 2nd or 3rd liner in Foligno (still a good player), he'd have 15 assists at the least.
The Jackets are a first round exit at the absolute best in the playoffs-Chicago or Anaheim is what's waiting for them. Enjoy that. Next year (Mea culpa on the remaining time on his deal) isn't a cup run either. If they get him at a bargain after his contract comes up, then I'll change my stance. This is a fluff player who's goal totals take away from the fact that he's an absolute dog. Him, Heatley, Kovalchuk. All in the same lump of players who make 5 Mil plus and are worth no more than 3 at the absolute best but people see goals and assume value and it isn't there with Gaborik. 35 career points in 54 career playoff games. But hey, he scores 40 in the regular season! He's a dog. Enjoy it, that's all I'm saying.
Or you can properly construct yourself from the outset and not have to make 'splash' aquisitions like a past his prime bum who can't stay healthy, scores 40 plus when he is and vanishes into thin air in the playoffs-if he gets your there (as 'game changers' are supposed to).
For a team that's borderline 7/8 playoff spot, yet still rebuilding in a sense, this trade makes sense. They desperately need top 3 forwards and scoring. They have an influx of defensive forwards or grinders and average centers. So they lost an injured grinder (Dorse) who can be replaced. They lost an average center who hasn't been the prospect he's been since his two shoulder injuries. And they lost a young defensemen, where they are also loaded with talent. Moore has been outplayed by Erixon and Prout, and Murray will be here next year. So, while Moore could pan out into a top 4 D, it's not a terrible loss. They keep all their first round picks in 2013 to, as you say, "construct properly." No point to hate on this trade because Dougie Mac and Scott Howson messed up building the team.
I'd like to clarify-I hate the trade because I hate Gaborik. He's a player that is part of a fundamental misunderstanding on how winning teams are constructed. The NHL is very stringent in their salary cap limitations and adding a guy at his expected price tag is a false positive in terms of impact. He gives you goals when he's healthy, He gives you nothing else. His money can be spent elsewhere to improve multiple positions. Same with Ilya, same with ol Drunk Dany. Seeing guys like him get their paper at the expense of the rest of their roster infuriates me. Now CBJ has the cap to support him so in that sense its not as bad-but that gets into the second problem I have with him. What he does add-goals-isn't enough to detract from what he doesn't add. He is the closest thing to the NHL's version of Adam Dunn as anyone I can think of. For every goal he scores, he botches a play defensively. You'll see it in the next two weeks.
I'll clarify-This trade is exactly what Columbus needed. We dumped two of our 2nd-4th line players, of which this team has too many, and one good, young defensive prospect, of which we have another five, for a guy that goes out and just scores goals. Columbus didn't need another two-way forward, or one that plays good defense, we have too many of those. We need a guy on the wings that will just produce goals, which is exactly what Gaborik does. I don't know how you can suggest that Columbus isn't building properly when we have 5 young defensive prospects in Ryan Murray, Tim Erixon, Dalton Prout, Cody Goloubef and David Savard, two young goalies in Sergei Bobrovsky and Oscar Dansk, several young forwards in Ryan Johansen, Artem Anisimov, Matt Calvert, Cam Atkinson, Boone Jenner, and Jonathan Audy-Marchessault, and we still kept our 3 1st round picks for this year... Jarmo Kekalainen and John Davidson know what they're doing, see: St. Louis Blues, Ottawa Senators
Calling Gaborik a bum is just plain ignorant. Dude is not a super star or a well rounded player but Brassard is the only impactful guy that CBJ gave up. Gabby>Brassard
+/- doesn't mean much. I bet you can't even walk and chew gum, but you would have gone positive playing with bobby orr. you control .166 of your +/-. you know what that means? you have zero. goddamn. control. over. the other .833.
+\- illustrates how a guy plays within the confines and structure of his line and team. Playing on the same line as an NHL great certainly helps but if one of Orr's team mates consistently makes bad passes\failed clearing attempts\turn overs, it undoes everything said great player does. If Bobby Orr takes over a play himself, takes it coast to coast and scores an unassisted goal-4 guys get a plus. And if one of those 4 screws up the next play and gives up an easy shot that leads to a goal, that's all undone. +\- in conjunction with ice time tells me just about all I need to know about any player you present to me.
I don't care about any of the players lost, nice guys sure but nobody you're upset isn't on the roster. Moore was the odd man out on the blue line, but we have about 5 young guys who are just as good. Only hurts if he turns into an all star.
Columbus already has a guy most likely destined to be an All-Star in Ryan Murray.
How I see it:
Ryan Murray>John Moore
Tim Erixon>John Moore
Marian Gaborik>Derick Brassard (Man this isn't even close)
Blake Comeau>Derek Dorsett
Michael Leighton=Steve Mason (Really who cares? They both suck, but Leighton costs a lot less to suck)
Brewster & William - A pleasure reading your posts - I'm not a hockey fan, more of a casual observer, but I feel like I learned some things reading your posts. Thanks. And William I see you are an Arsenal fan. Fulham here. I like the cannon avatar.
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
Yep, I've been an Arsenal fan since the early 2000s. Watching the Invicibles was pretty awesome. The avatar comes from the Columbus Blue Jackets' 3rd jersey, which is a doozy:
Thanks man, don't take my oppisiton as hostility either. I do like a good argument and William is one of my favorites to exchange with.
Pretty damn cool jersey. Hadn't ever seen it before.
Brassard: Goal, 3 assists in his first game with NYR. *sigh*
sure hope this trade pays off...Gaborik has been pretty weak sauce this season, especially compared to last year...need his offense...the playoff race is going to be extremely close
John Moore scored as well (wow, his offense finally showing up) in addition to Brassard's 1/3/4. But it's one game.
It's honestly what the Rangers needed though. Dorsett will bring "grit" as well. But Dorsett is replaceable. Brassard has never been the same since his two shoulder injuries, and he'll show up in flashes about 10-12 games a year. Moore is still raw, but we'll forget about losing him with Erixon, Murray, Prout, etc. coming up the next few years. None of those 3 are "have to keep" players for the future, and JD and Jarmo kept all of those first round picks this year.
I also think the cap hit we take on with Gaborik is significantly reduced by getting rid of overpaid players like brassard, dorse, and Mason (to the flyers). Its a 1 year rental for kind of a steep price, but one the Jackets can readily afford since they did not trade away the future. And while I certainly understand that Gaborik has been poor this season, it is worth noting how often a change of scenery can benefit a player. Who knows what Gab will do when out of what seems to be a toxic situation with Torts and gets back to playing with Anisimov, dubs, and Vinny.
"Who cares? Go Bucks." - Aaron Untch
Except it isn't a rental... He's signed through 2013-2014, after which if he does continue to play, he'll take a pay cut, because no 32 year old is going to get $7.5 million a year. It was nice to dump Brassard and Mason's cap hits. Now it's time to get rid of Umberger.
Sorry, I didn't make it clear, he is still a 1 year, 12 game rental. I meant it in the sense that there is no way the Jackets sign him long term unless he has a hell of season next year, in which case, they really shouldn't pay him anyway. I don't see there being any possibility of him being in a Jackets sweater after next season.
Ehh, with a player of his skill he can play until he's 35 and still have an impact like Jagr or Iginla. I see him re-signing with Columbus next year to a 2-year deal, nothing more. He'll provide Johansen with a sniper on the 1st line, which he desperately needs.
You hope. The entire crux of your argument hinges on him being comparable to two NHL all time greats (of which Gaborik is not)-and his skills not diminishing to the point that he ISN'T a first line scorer any more. His game resembles neither of those guys either. Jarome Iginla is an iron man by NHL standards and Gaborik is a trip to the IR waiting to happen.
I get that your excited. He's a big name. I'm saying he's a big name in name only who isn't nearly as impactful as his goal totals appear. He also has missed 160 games in the last 8 years. So there's that. Enjoy it. That's all I'm saying.
^That is freaking pathetic. $4.6 million cap hit, and he has a NTC through 2014, and a modified NTC after that. He apparently likes it in Columbus so not only would JD and Jarmo have to get him to waive his NTC, they would have to find a partner willing to take on that contract. Yikes. He's maxed out as a 50 point guy, and I think those were in better days.
The New York Rangers and the Columbus Blue Jackets have received these players/picks in their trades with each other over the past year, CBJ win this 10/10:
1st round pick
6th round pick
3rd round pick and Steve Delisle to NYR.
Steve Delisle and Blake Parlett to CBJ.
The 3rd round pick should've been included, but Delisle and Partlett are going to be career AHLers/ECHLers.
True, but still included in the deals for bodies and whatnot.
Still, if Gaborik can just come close to Nash's production that's a wash. Gaborik = Nash? (Nash has more years left and a better defensive player, so it's a bit of wishful thinking there)
Anisimov > Brassard
Dubinsky > Dorsett
Erixon > Moore (although I think Moore has more upside since he's still a bit raw, could turn into a really good defesemen)
1st > 3rd and 6th (obviously)
Delisle = Delisle and no one cares about Parlett but he's still just 23.
Or put another way on those last few - 1st > 3rd. Delisle = Delisle. and Parlett = 6th (roughly).
I'm not a huge hockey fan but I try to follow it.
Can someone tell me straight up whether these trades were good?
I know they are close to that last playoff spot... does this put them over the top for the playoffs or is more of a 'brick by brick' move?
In all honesty, as serious as I can be, I think both teams came away feeling like they won. In reality, I think both teams traded crap for crap. I don't like Gaborik at all, but he'll help Columbus score more-which is what they need. The question is at what cost. His goal scoring can easily-and will-be offset by his lapses and lack of effort on D, but if Columbus starts winning games 6-4, he'll be part of the reason.
If they make the playoffs, he'll be a non factor though. That's the book on his career.
I'm referring strictly to this New York Rangers deal. Someone might arrest Columbus for the assault\theft\mugging they pulled on Philly and New York in the off season. What CB got from New York in the Nash move was an utter trade forcible intercourse.
These moves were more short-term than the "brick by brick" approach, but could have a long term impact.
They got rid of a good young defensemen (which there are a stockpile of in the franchise, so no big deal), a gritty heart and soul guy (could be hard to replace, but see: Calvert, Dubinsky, etc.), and an overrated 2nd line center (see: Anisimov - more upside, and Johansen). They got Gaborik, who is a 3-time 40 goal scorer and is under contract through 2014 (Jarmo has said he would like to try to sign him after the end of next season).
Kept all three 1st round picks this year, which is huge and fits the "brick by brick" motto.
Got rid of an overpaid, soon-to-be-RFA Mason for another crappy backup AND a 3rd round pick in 2015. Great deal there.
Gave up a 5th round pick for a Dorsett-type guy in Comeau.
Still are 2 to 3 great to elite scoring forwards away up front. They have plenty of 3rd and 4th line "glue" guys who work incredibly hard. With the talent coming on the back end, it's hard to upgrade on defense without a massive salary cap hit (Aucoin will retire but Murray, Prout, Erixon, Goloubef can and will fill in nicely). Bobrovsky is hopefully a diamon in the rough and not a Steve Mason one season fluke. Could use an upgrade at backup G but we'll see. They have 12 games to make a playoff push this season, very realistic. Next year should be even better if they can sign all of their RFA's and hit in the draft (or use a pick to swing a deal).
I think the biggest thing about this season was holding on to those 3 1st round picks, which will allow them to move up and get a guy like Jonathan Drouin (player I think they need most, a scoring winger).
For what it's worth, Gaborik has played good defense so far tonight...
Still needs 2 more points to match Brassard's opening night with NYR
Fleury is a fricking joke. Also Brassard will do things like that. He'll dazzle for 1-2 games, but he'll never break 50 points in a season. Now I don't think Gaborik is going to come in and pot a goal every game, but he came in and did exactly what the CBJ needed. He led rushes up the ice, put shots on goal, and gasp, got back and played solid defense.
Also just wait until Brassard starts throwing no look passes to nobody and causes odd man rushes. He has great vision and is a good passer, but he's just never been able to put it all together. Dubinsky was great tonight, and the Atkinvert twins were stellar.
Lol at the downvotes. To all of the Penguins fans, please downvote some more. Your team has lost its namby-pamby All-Star and is falling apart. Fleury should be wiping windshields and pumping gas at a service station in Quebec instead of getting paid millions to get scored on.
Not sure they're "falling apart." Just lost 2 in a row, after a 15 game win streak, without Crosby and had to bring in all of their new pieces. Seriously though, when Crosby is healthy...Crosby, Malkin, Sutter, Jokinen, Iginla, Morrow, Kunitz, Dupuis, Neal...who am I missing?
I agree, they are hardly "falling off". Malkin was injured for awhile, Crosby takes a puck to the grill (I bet the Crosby haters loved that) and they added quite a few pieces as well. I will agree with William about Fluery, he has always bugged me with his inconsistent play. After that barnburner series last year with Philly he just doesn't have the confidence.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
a.) I'm not even a Penguins fan, I'm a CBJ fan, and
b.) I can't upvote or downvote yet, but if I could, your asinine comment would surely get a downvote from me.
c.) You seem like a jealous Penguins hater, or somebody that's just waaaay too bitter and mad about everything at a young age. That's a shame.
Now, you say: "lost it's namby-pamby All-Star" ?
First of all, anybody playing professional hockey is tough as nails, and I've watched Crosby play many times. Not only is he THE best hockey player in the world right now...he is one tough kid. I'd like to see you take some frozen vulcanized rubber at about 80-95 MPH straight to your grill -- and see how you feel. Ok, tough guy? The guy took a freakin' slap shot right to the mouth, with zero time to react. He ended up losing many teeth and getting a broken jaw. He played two seasons ago with a concussion from a cheap shot, and then took a bad hit a few days later and got two bad concussions in about a span of 3 days. He takes more BS cheap shots than anybody else I've seen play since Mario Lemieux. People can't stop him - so they have to resort to cheap shot tactics...and they still can't stop him! It seems you're just a Penguins hater.
I mean come on man, I want the Blue Jackets to win as much as the next guy, BUT, I respect and appreciate great hockey when I see it. It's hard not to love the way Crosby plays the game. Sick passes...eyes in the back of his head...great leader...tough...plays hard every single night...best all-around player in the world, & it's not even close.
Next, you say: "team...is falling apart" Dude - wishful thinking, much? They lost 2 games this week. Big deal, they're still 15-2 over the past 5 weeks. You expect them to win every single game? They're top 2 defenders (Letang and Martin), esp. on the power play, are injured. That's why they've been a little off the past week. Falling apart is a trollish statement as well.
Lastly, you say: "Fleury should be wiping windshields and pumping gas at a service station in Quebec instead of getting paid millions to get scored on." I assume this dumb statement was for attention. Look at the stats I've posted above. Fleury is an elite goaltender. Even elite goaltenders have off games. I think you went a little overboard there and know you did.
Overall, you just seem like a jealous bitter guy, I don't know you - but don't litter the interwebz with that garbage.
p.s. You've just been served :) Thanks for playing, guy.
I'm just happy to be here
1) Crosby is an uber-talented player, but he isn't tough as nails. He's one of the least physical centers in the game.
2) Not every hockey player is physical, even the great ones, example: Wayne Gretzky.
3) Fleury is extremely overrated, and has always benefited from being on a team that can generally outscore its opponent. He couldn't even hold Rinne's jockstrap.
4) Of course my statement that the team is falling apart was hyperbolic. I know they just won 15 in a row. Doesn't matter, without Crosby that whole team looks like a hot mess filled with some talented players.
5) I'm not bitter, just critical. And yes I'm young, that doesn't make my perspective any less valid.
6) Lol at the "you got served" line, solid stuff.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Pittsburgh has a very deep team that is loaded from top to bottom. They just happen to have two of the top three best players in the world but to say that the Penguins are a hot mess without him is just extremely inaccurate.
Two of the top three? No. Crosby yes, but Malkin isn't one of the Top 3 players in the NHL right now. I'd take Steven Stamkos, Patrick Kane, Ryan Getzlaf, John Tavares, and Eric Staal over Evgeni Malkin.
Geno falls somewhere in that 4-10 range in my humble opinion. I'm pretty sure most people would have a top 3 unanimously Alex\Sid\Toews. After that, you got a lot of really really good players who don't distinguish themselves a ton from each other. Geno falls in there comfortably.
Ovi is quickly falling out of that top 3 category.
lmao, Ovechkin isn't even top 10 at this point in time. Now he is playing real well right now but he hasn't been anywhere even close to what he used to be. Also Toews I would think would be in the top 5 category and is probably the most balanced player.
@9Route, You state "Look at the stats I've posted above." However, you posted no relevant statistics pertaining to Fleury's ability to stop pucks. Unless you are referring to them winning 15 straight games, which is not reflective of a goalie's singular abilities as it is a team effort. If you have some comparisons of Fleury v. Rinne as concerning GAA in the playoffs etc. (as well as their pay scales), I think that would be helpful in discerning who is better.
See below. Every statistical measure (outside of career wins and a Stanley Cup) has Rinne as the better goalie.
Duncan Keith took a 100MPH missle off the teeth, had his mouth explode, missed a shift and came back stiched up and missed no time in the playoffs in 2010. I like Sid for what he is but I'm sorry, tough he is not. Dude isn't soft per se but he isn't what I think of when I think of "grit".
I don't know about that. Gotta look at the whole body of work. Rinne is very good, but I don't why you'd pick Fleury out of the blue to compare him with, (Penguin hater maybe). Fleury has played two more seasons than Rinne, but:
Career Wins: Fleury 244 Rinne 152
Playoff Wins: Fleury 43 Rinne 13
Stanley Cup Final Appearances: Fleury 2 Rinne 0
Staneye Cups: Fleury 1 Rinne 0
The stats that matter ---- I'd take Fleury...he actually wins games that matter.
If you look at the comment I responded to - Brewster was saying Gaborik need 2 more points to match Brassard's debut with the NYR. Well, NYR played Pittsburgh that night, and Fleury was in goal. Gaborik was playing Nashville, with Rinne in goal. My point was it's not really fair to compare those two debuts, considering new linemates, different opponents, different goalies, etc.
I get your point. It's true Fleury does have a lot more to work with overall. But, his top two defenders (Chris Letang and Paul Martin) are out right now.
More importantly, I just hope the Jackets get into the playoffs and win at least a series.
Matching career wins doesn't make any sense - Fleury is 28 and has been playing in Pittsburgh since 2003, with oh some guys named Crosby and Malkin who can even out some bad defense/goaltending with their scoring. Who does Nashville have? Rinne, while 30, has only been a full time starter in Nashville since 2008.
You're making my point to Brewster - Pittsburgh didn't have great D on Wednesday. Nashville had Weber, who was often paired against the Gaborik line.
Rinne has a better GAA this season. Career save % and GAA are heavily in Rinne's favor. Rinne has 3 more career shutouts in about 185 less games. He also has better GAA and save % in the playoffs. Fleury just has had the benefit of more talent around him, and WAY more scoring upfront than Rinne. Career winning % (not overall wins) is in Rinne's favor.
is hockeys minor leagues like baseballs? how long do they usually spend in the minors?
"limitations, like fears are often just illusions"
-Michael Jordan, the greatest athlete of all time
Depends on the prospect. Usually a guy will play juniors or college, even past getting drafted. I think you have to be 20 to play the in the AHL (largest minor league)? Some kids can come in and play at 18, whereas most will get called up for a few games a year until they're in their early 20s. Also defenders usually take longer to develop than forwards.
Good read on AHL eligibility.
A little more involved than I thought in terms of games played and who is allowed to be there. AHL is the minors. Each NHL team has an AHL affiliate.
All stats aside. Pavel Datsyuk is probably the most exciting hockey player in the NHL right now. I've seen many players from many teams, and this guy is just incredible to watch live. He does it all. Without fan fair either. Again, not saying he's the best. Just the most exciting.
And if you get a chance to see him in a shoot out.....wow.
Ehh 3-4 years ago I'd agree with this, but not now. Most exciting? I'd say Patrick Kane.
Huuuuuuuge game tonight - Detroit v.s. LA. LA playing their 2nd in a back-to-back and Dustin Brown (their captain) may be suspended for an elbow to Minnesota's Jason Pominville.
For you social media-savvy people, there is a "Money on the Board" campaign going on via Twitter right now. Basically, you make a claim like "For every goal scored, I will donate $25 to <insert charity here>. #cbjmotb" The team then will have a board in the locker room of all the money that is pledged through the Twitter campaign, and whether it relates to goals, a win, saves, etc. I'm not sure if they follow up with all of the people to see if they donate, but it's supposed to be a fun way for the fans to give the players an extra incentive. MotB is for Thursday's game in Dallas and the home finale on Saturday I think.
Wish I had the money to do something like that lol...
I'm not a huge hockey fan but these past few weeks have been pretty exciting. Hopefully they can make the playoffs and make a run.
I'm almost at the point of hoping the Jackets lose tomorrow, to spare us the agony of what's looking like the inevitable Saturday elimination otherwise. Everyone knows if it comes to Detroit needing to win Saturday to make the playoffs, the league has ways of making that happen.
After last year's performance from the Blue Jackets, this year has been a rousing success! I even notice that and I'm not even a hockey fan whatsoever.
Well it's come down to this...
Uphill climb for the Jackets given the fact that this is foreign territory for them and business as usual for the Big Red Machine.
How awesome that Dallas, one of the last three teams in it gets to play Columbus and Detroit while they each have the same two teams remaining with the same home\away set up as well. That's certainly a hell of a way to end an already bonkers season.
Truth be told I'm hoping for Columbus to make it. I'd love to see the 'expansion' Jackets be the team that ultimately breaks one of the more impressive playoff streaks in all of sport with Detroit's 21 year stretch on the line. Detroit or Columbus would make for a more interesting series with Chicago than Dallas and that makes for better hockey all around.
Good luck Jackets!
Dallas won't make it. They're maxed out at 52 points. Need to win their last 2 in regulation AND have Nashville beat both Detroit and Columbus in regulation. Won't happen.
Agreed. It's CBJ or DET. I'm saying I'm glad it will be one of those two. Both are worlds better than Dallas, who at their best is a hot pile of garbage.
An agonizing bump for anyone watching the Minnesota / Colorado game
looks like the Blue Jackets are going to be left out
so close. what a shame this jackets team wont be able to give chicago a run for their money. wouldve been a great series
Great last game for the CBJ... momentum for next year for the youngest team in the nhl
Tom Crean listens to Nickelback...
Never been a CBJ fan but after tonight I am.
Our Honor Defend!
Hard to be very mad about this, the fact that they ever even got into the playoff hunt with how terribly this season started is amazing as is.
For the first time in a long time this season was incredibly exciting and I can't wait for next year
Damn. The thing that sucks is when the game was tied 1-1, Colorado scored the go-ahead goal to go up 2-1, but it was ruled no goal because it was kicked in. Minnesota capitalized on the momentum and scored right after to take the lead for good.
I love the resiliency and toughness Columbus showed. Hopefully this will make them all the more hungry for next season.
The Jackets have a lot to look forward to. Two words of caution:
1) The turnaround of this past season came on the back of a hot goalie, and flashes-in-the-pan at that position are not unheard of in hockey history (example: the Jackets' best-ever team).
2) No matter how promising the outlook, they're still a professional sports team in the state of Ohio, which seems to be an irresistible barrier to having "teams of destiny" or any other kind of championship season.
"They're still a professional sports team in the state of Ohio, which seems to be an irresistible barrier to having "teams of destiny" or any other kind of championship season."
Indelible truth since 1964.
"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes
Good point on number one. A lot of love, deservedly, for Bob. I'd be interested to hear Jackets fans say why he won't fade into obscurity like Mason did.
1) Mason was a rookie when he had his run, and if you look at his game by game stats he was already starting to nose dive towards the end of that season.
2) Sergei Bobrovsky has put up a solid season prior to this one in Philly were he had a .916/.915 save percentage.
3) It's pretty well known that Mason was quite lazy, or very often didn't take blame for goals he allowed, whereas the CBJ's goalie coach, Ian Clark, has called Bobrovsky one of the hardest working players he's ever worked with.
4) He could still regress a lot, but I highly doubt that. He's established himself as a very good goalie this season, and I see him continuing that trend.
i look back at the abysmal start and the goals taken away by officials that took points away that proved in the end to be the difference maker.........still very proud and excited to go to a bunch of games next year.........this team should make some noise either next year or the year after.....they are prime for it
You can't make the playoffs early but you can lose the playoffs early. Or something like that.
What a gut punch. Go 8-1 the last 9 (and lose a game to LA in the only game they showed up down the stretch). Finish 19-5-3, or the best record in the league the last 60 days. If there were no shootouts, we finish tied with SJ who we crushed this year. NYR finish 1 point ahead of us in the East.
Blame it on the Howson tiebreaker if you'd like. I'll lay the blame on the owners and NHLPA. If this is even a 50 game season we're in. 52 games we're in. Just ran out of games. Had we gone with Bob just a week sooner we'd be in. Tough.
The cool thing is the last 3 to 4 weeks has essentially been playoff hockey for this club. Virtual must wins the last 2 weeks. So much excitement for next year, especially with those 3 first round picks in June.
The really frustrating thing is that the Jackets went an insane 15-1 in their last 16 home games--but the game they lost in that stretch was to the one team that in the end they couldn't afford a loss to, Minnesota.
I really can't stand that Detroit has made the playoffs 22 straight years..
I really can't stand anything from the state of Michigan
The Jackets did all they could down the stretch. They needed help on the last night and they didn't get it. Damn you Colorado and damn whoever Detroit smoked like it was last Saturday. If they played the early part of the year like they did the late part, they wouldn't have needed the help. It sucks, but I think business is starting to pick up for this franchise. We said that after the playoff team a few years ago, too, but I have more confidence with John Davidson here. We'll see.
Class of 2010.
Seriously, eff you LA Queens...back to back no shows against Minnesota and Detroit.
VIEW ALL »
Scarlet and Gray, Every Day.
Quite simply, Eleven Warriors is the largest free Ohio State site on the internet. We're committed to remaining free and delivering you the Buckeye news and analysis you deserve.
Our Story | Meet the Staff
© 2006-2013 Eleven Warriors LLC.
Eleven Warriors is not affiliated with The Ohio State University. View full disclaimer.
The easiest way for you to contribute is to join the community. Signing up for a new account is 100% free, takes seconds and allows you to comment, participate in the forum and create your own blog posts.
If you'd like to support us with your wallet, you can: buy one of our amazing shirts or shop Amazon with this link. (Your prices remain the same and we get a commission).
We love hearing from you! Whether you want to work with us, discuss advertising opportunities, or pass us a hot tip, you're more than welcome to drop us a line.