Growing up in Toledo, I have many friends who went to and/or are avid M*ich*igan fans. After hearing people, whom I deemed to be not very intelligent throw in their $0.02, with the same lines about how M*ch*gan is the "winningest" and their usual uppity schtick about how clean their programs are - I decided to do some research.
It is cool to claim you have the winnigest program ever but if you look at their football wins, you will see they count some huge wins over powerhouse programs like: Adelbert, American Medical, Ann Arbor HIGH SCHOOL, Beloit, Camp Grant, Chicago Athletic Club, Cleveland Athletic Club, Detroit Athletic Club, Detroit Industrial, Great Lakes, Peninsulars, Rush Lake Forest, Stevens Institue, Wabash and Windsor Club - to name a few. Now I know many programs have some odd looking wins many years ago, but I have yet to hear an intelligent comeback in regards to counting wins over high schools. Usually this turns to 58-44-6 about the rivaly. This too is annoying but I tend to rebute with something along the lines of "I'm sure you enjoyed all those wins in the 1800s but over the last decade and in my life time we have owned you..."
As for the squeeky clean image and the arrogance they like to exude, its nice to point out one thing...Even though they discount the RichRod era and the probation he landed them on that's fine. The one fact that I love, is that M*ch*gan has vacated more basketball game than any other college in the country. They are the all time leaders in vacated games. It's amazing to bring up and most M*ch*gan fans dont believe it.
So what arguments/rebutttals do you use against M*ch*gan Skunk Bears? I'm not talking about just "Mich Sucks" or scUM. What intelligent ammo do you use against our rivals up north??? Just trying to get my game tight while talking smack to friends...
Have you tried just ignoring?
That's not very fun...
I like the 25-4 in Football & Basketball since 04 stat.
Ignoring makes one look weak. I prefer to give them shit right back, but in a more tasteful way.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/michigan/opponents_records.php?teamid=165
Ha, nice.
Makes me kind of wonder if thi s will be the last time these 2 schools will ever meet considering how the first one ended
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
no, they've already scheduled another match up in 2014.
The last decade has been great, but I can never really give Michigan fans too much hell about that. I remember the Cooper years, and fear the day when a horrible era like that happens again. I do think if there is a coach in this world who will preserve the success Tressel had against Michigan it's Urban. I'm also confident that Hoke got his one win against the Buckeyes, and it could be a long long time before he gets another. My fear is who replaces Hoke in 4 or 5 years. OR who replaces Urban down the line?
In all honesty I'm sure if you take away those high school, YMCA, Olive Club, Little Sister of the Poor, Walmart Tech and Macdonalds A&M wins from all FBS schools, Michigan might still have the all time record but not by many. It would be interesting to see who has the most wins over current FCS and FBS schools.
As for thier record vs. us, I'm just hoping that Meyer stays with us for 6 more years. If he goes 6-1 against them, that would move us to 50 wins before they reach 60 and close the series to being within less than 10 games. Of course if we do meet in the B1G title game and beat them twice that will close the gap even faster. Think about it like this, Michigan has been trying to reach 60 wins for a very long time. In 2000, the record stood at 55-36-5. They still aren't there yet. I, like BTALBERT25 know that success can only last for so long against them and it won't be long before we start trading blows back and forth so I'm enjoying it for now. I doubt this rivalry turns into something one-sided but it would be nice to have domination over them much like Wisconsin has been dominating Minnesota for the past 20 years.
Edit: One day the Gophers will rise up and claim the Axe back. Go Gophers!
Ohio State's band SLAUGHTERED Michigan's band. If this were a football game, it would have been Florida State vs. Savannah State. - SB Nation following OSU vs. UM 2012
I'm still of the belief that in the event Hokey Pokey falls on his face like RichRod did, they'll eventually pony up for Les Miles or someone really close to that caliber. They'll eventually get sick of getting their arses stomped. A line will be crossed if it already hasn't. There's no telling how long we'll have Urbz and its way too early to know how he'll do against TTUN. He's at least off to a good start. If we had known what was going to transpire vs. TTUN when Cooper was hired they would've never hired him. Hindsight is 20/20 unfortunately. We dont have that luxury for the future.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
I'm not that scared of Les Miles at AACC. I'm delighted that Harbaugh will likely be a lifetime NFL coach. That is the man that I am terrified of ever seeing coach Michigan.
^ This is the correct answer.
especially after watching LSU throw the ball 3 stright times in the last 2 minutes of the game versus Clemson with a 6 point lead only to lose by 1 point........All they had to do was run 3 times and make Clemson burn their timeouts and they likely would have won the game
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
This is why I consider Nebraska to be the winningest program as they have I believe the most wins since 1960. Basically if you are talking about an era before Woody, Bo, Bear etc. then it's irrelevant because it just isn't the same game as today.
When it comes to them and their majorly overrated ranking in basketball, I just say 56-53.
Class of 2010.
You know what would be awesome, is if they won out and went to the title game and lost much like Illinois did in 2005. Illinois remembered who gave them their losses and Michigan will remember too.
Ohio State's band SLAUGHTERED Michigan's band. If this were a football game, it would have been Florida State vs. Savannah State. - SB Nation following OSU vs. UM 2012
That was a nice win for you guys - you held tight in a tough game. That said, I don't see how "majorly overrated" is the right way to describe Michigan basketball. They are one of two 1-loss teams in all of Division 1, and they came all the way back from a 21-point deficit before losing that one game. Kansas is great, and there's an argument for them at #1. But even conceding that, there's an argument for Michigan at #1, too - and there's not a lot of argument to have them lower than #2.
Look at common opponents: Kansas won in Columbus, *ichigan lost in Columbus. I've got Kansas number 1 for now but admittedly they both look good
Did you watch Kansas last night????? They BARELY beat a really bad team. Had they played a team marginally better they lost. Everyone has a bad night, which probably had a lot to do with Michigan losing in Columbus. Michigan had 53 points(lowest output of the year) in Columbus and had by far their worst shooting night of the year. Plus, there's that rivalry thing and Thad owning that school. I hate to admit it but I think Michigan is the best team in America. Kansas has some good players and is a very good team, but I think Michigan is a more complete team myself. Michigan went to number 9 Minnesota and beat them at home fairly easily right after that loss in Columbus. Does Kansas have a win like that? Maybe K-State? I don't know.
I don't think Kansas is better than Michigan, but I do think you need to give the Buckeyes a little more credit for the win against Michigan. They came out and wanted it more. Michigan was rattled from the get go, and OSU's defense was stifling. Hence the reason for the low output and poor shooting percentage.
Michigan beat KState by double digits early in the season at MSG also, FWIW.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I'm not discounting the game the Buckeyes put up, but combine a good defensive effort with horrible shooting and that's what you have. When Ohio State lost to UK in the sweet 16 a couple of years ago, all I heard from UK fans was how amazing the defense was, but they didn't acknowledge missed layups and a historically bad night from Bufford. So, while I recognize that Ohio State played some nice defense that night, I'm not going to be one of those fans who claims that the only reason Michigan shot so poorly was Ohio State's awesome D.
I'm not convinced that michigan can win if burke has bad performances like he did at ohio state. I believe thats the only time hes been shut down basically, which made stauskas and hardaway play terrible too
To be fair, Burke played like crap against Illinois, too. He was 7-19 from the floor, with 3 turnovers. He took bad shots, hurried too much. Generally looked awful. Michigan still rocked Illinois, because GR3 and Hardaway stepped up.
Didn't you guys play illinois after they beat us when they started playing like bruce webber illinois?
I'm sorry - I was going to respond to this, but I need you to clarify what your point is. There is absolutely no snark, here. I just want to know what you're saying so I can make a reasoned response that answers your point.
what i am trying to say is, didn't you play illinois once they started playing bad?
Sure, but that doesn't mean that Trey Burke didn't play badly, and it doesn't mean that GR3 and Hardaway didn't step up. It also doesn't mean they don't deserve to be either #1 or #2.
Michigan has played some good defensive teams, and they weren't able to hold them to anything relatively close to 53 points. Ohio State has also allowed far worse teams to score more points than that. Ohio State put up a nice effort that day, but as a team, Michigan was just dreadful shooting the ball. I would be surprised if Ohio State when the game in Ann Arbor.
I agree, watched them against Illinois and actually a few games since we beat them here and they seem to have corrected some mistakes and look legit this year.
That said, I'm still holding out hope we can go 2-0 possibly 3-0 (B1G tourney) against you guys this year.
I like telling all those Missagain fans who try to downplay the rivalry since 2000 that most of the Missagain wins came while the real pig was used as the football and not just the pigskin and while the "flying v and wing t" formations were just thoughts not reality
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
I feel a certain "kinship" with other Buckeye fans from Toledo...because I'm a Buckeye fan from Toledo, duh. Chief Dump, you my bro.
I was very surprised to not see Little Sisters of the Poor as part of the UM "all-time wins" list.
I had a co-worker Michigan fan tell me the wonderful news today: that D. Green committed to TTUN and that OSU are cheaters. I congratulated him on the nice pick up and reminded him that Green would have been #6 RB for OSU if he went there. He'll play early and often at A2.
When Crapperines fans bring up the "all-time record" shit, I can't help but roll my eyes every time, and remind them that yes, they are credited with those wins, but was the game pre-WWI really anything like it is today? I don't consider the leather helmet era anything like the modern era of football.
OSU has a winning record vs. UM since the Woody Era started, and if it continues on it's current trajectory, we shall overtake them in the fricking "all-time wins" debate. Then they'll have to talk about their hockey team(not knocking hockey-a great sport I love).
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
Even the Michigan Hockey team is having a down year this year, now the Gophers they are special.
I've enjoyed Michigan fall from grace this year in hockey. Their team lacks chemistry and seeing how they lost to the likes of BGSU, I figured it was pretty much a done deal for them. Hopefully we can beat them this year in hockey and pour gas on their season that's already in flames.
On the other side I'm EXCITED the Gophers are doing well in hockey. In fact, both the men and women are #1 and women hold a 26-0-0 record going into their series vs. Duluth before they play Ohio State. I think we are gonna get destroyed if the previous 7-2, 8-0 beat downs are any indications of Lady Gophers skills. This team is looking like the USSR team from the 80's and I expect them to roll through the competion on their way to claiming back to back national titles. Their goalie Noora Raty is out of this world! Hope the men can win it all too. Ski-U-Mah
Forgive me buckeye faithful but I have to root for my Gophers as well.
Ohio State's band SLAUGHTERED Michigan's band. If this were a football game, it would have been Florida State vs. Savannah State. - SB Nation following OSU vs. UM 2012
Multiple college team fan? Maybe you grew up rooting for one but went to the other?? Not attacking - just wondering...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Its weird but yes I'm a fan of both Ohio State and Minnesota. I have Alumni ties to Ohio State and graduate in 2012 but I've been a long time Gopher fan as early as the early 2000's back when they were winning their early hockey titles and going to Frozen Fours. I'd planned on going there for grad school for quite some time but I'm enjoying not having scholasitc committments. Its still not off my radar though to get an MS from there though after finishing up my rotational program.
Ohio State's band SLAUGHTERED Michigan's band. If this were a football game, it would have been Florida State vs. Savannah State. - SB Nation following OSU vs. UM 2012
I'm from Hawaii and as much as I love the Buckeyes, I do have a soft spot for the Warriors (the fact that i'm on 11w should be a hint to who comes first). I don't see it as a big deal to support two teams.
When it comes to Minnesota, all I have to say is LUKE WITTE - NEVER FORGET.
I love watching the Gophers in hockey, that team is so loaded. Wilcox has really impressed me so far this year too.
My rebuttal: play up the past all that you want, but it's what you're doing right now that defines your program's current health.
At one point Minnesota was a dynasty; prior records don't mean shit about your program's current standing. The best they can do is provide a good predictor as to the team's long-term viability (i.e. bluebloods generally stay bluebloods).
They can say whatever they want, but until they can consistently beat us, the Big Ten is Ohio State's conference.
Yep. Michigan, Army and Fordham were my 3 favorite teams in the 20's.
I don't do a lot of gifs, but if I did, I'd post a preacher saying amen over & over here.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
You would have loved the 30's too.
Michigan, Cal and the Golden Gophers
If you need some good ammo, these that follow are always pretty good.
Pointing out wins against high school teams is always good like you did.
I'm reminded of all the records set by Rich Rod, those would be the bad ones. 3-9 no bowl first time in over 30 years, it's also there first losing season in about 40 years. Bring those up among others for some serious belly aching on their part. Although they are out of that experiment it's still painful for them to remember.
Then move on to current history against Ohio State. When they bring up cheating I always mention I didn't know it was cheating to sell you own stuff and tell them don't ever have a garage sale or you'll be up their ass about it.
Buckeye: You realize/remember just a few years back they almost cancelled the Ohio State/M*chigan game?
MU Fan: What? They did? I don't remember that.
Buckeye: Yeah, you guys couldn't get past Toledo that year.
You can always point out that they lost to Appy St. and it is considered to be the all time upset in college football.
When they refer to us as Ohio just simply point out that Ohio is the team that knocked them out in the NCAA Basketball tourney and Ohio State is the school that owns them in football and basketball.
I'm sure there are many other ways to slam them with facts but don't forget it's always fun to get them with the other jokes too. Like: Why do all the trees in Ohio slightly bend north? Well, because M*chigan sucks. I also enjoy: Oh your a M*chigan grad? So that's north until you smell it west until you step in it. Ann Arbor is a whore. I've actually had people not understand that one.
That's off the top of my head. Laters and good luck fighting the good fight. Go Bucks!
The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. - Woody Hayes
Agree with Hodge, right on the money. Both programs have had their ups and downs throughout history, but as of right now, who has the bragging rights?
Also, it doesn't take much intelligence or really a good thoughful rebuttal, but when I say Appalachian State to my Michigan buddies at work, it still makes them burn. Kind of like Timmy B's 313 yards on us still burns me.
M*chigan fans hate Notre Dame, but they're almost exactly like Notre Dame fans. Most seem to believe that their coaches(Hoke, and Kelly) are on par with Urban. Both fan bases have so much bitterness toward Ohio State, it makes me warm and fuzzy inside.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
I don't have any bitterness toward the Ohio State University. I have tons of respect. As for Notre Dame, I loathe them. It always seems to disappoint my OSU friends, when I tell them how much respect I have for their alma mater, and how much hatred Michigan has for Notre Dame. I love the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry.
What is remarkable to me, and less surprising in retrospect, is how Ohio State's broad family of supporters turned on a dime and went from despising Urban Meyer to worshipping him. I tended to think that he was a very good football coach at Florida with an impressive but imperfect record. Now, with a perfect 12-0 season behind him, he's regarded in Columbus as an embodiment of perfection.
I suppose that in football, introspection can just get in the way.
I'll step up: I hated Urban Meyer because he beat my team, and I hated the Gators well before that. It was that opinion that colored every action that he made. Did he just say "losing sucks" in a press conference? Classless. Did he just pull in a top ranked class? Obviously he's recruiting thugs. It didn't matter what he did, I was going to hate him because he whipped my Buckeyes.
It wasn't until Tressel left, and the Meyer speculation began that I actually researched the guy. Lo and behold--the man's a model of NCAA compliance, tries his best to live an honest life, and is relentless in every aspect of the job. I'm happy he's my coach, and I only regret not knowing all that I do about him now when he beat us in '06--because I'd have spent less time hating the guy, and more time hoping he'd be Tressel's successor.
I was wrong. I think a lot of Buckeyes will echo a similar statement.
I 2nd all of your points. I would, however, add the fact that he's is from Ohio, and grew up a Woody/ OSU fan. This lessened the blow for me a little, when he came (home) from Florida (HATE!!!!). He succeeded where he was, and that's more about being a competitor, than a contrarian fan ala Hoke.
WB
M Man, you make a fair point concerning how Ohio State fans perceived Urbz when he was at Florida. Keep in mind a few points, though:
First, Urbz makes no apologies for it, but he's a take-no-prisoner "hide yo wife, hide yo kids" kinda coach - aggressive on the recruiting trail, a perfectionist, who is straightforward with the media. If he's not coaching your team, he's apt to come across as cocky. His personality is such that he's always going to be loved by fans of his team and hated by most everyone else. For different reasons, a similar principle applied to players like Rodney Harrison, Jim McMahon, AJ Pierzynski (baseball), Rick Mahorn (in bball), etc. In contrast, other highly successful coaches like B. Alvarez or Tom Osborn had personalities/styles that engendered much less hatred from opposing fans even when they were beating your teams.
Second, many Buckeye fans disliked Florida and much of the SEC long before Urbz left Utah. There is the old Union v. Confederacy aspect, but it really related to the discussions/narratives/myths that had been taking place as early as the 1980s (maybe even late 70s when Michigan lost like 4 Rose Bowls in a row) about "southern" and western (UCLA, USC, Washington) speeeeed compared to the slow, plodding Midwestern farmers. Miami FL and FSU were seemingly in the top 2 or 3 every year during the late 80s, early 90s and our dislike (envy?) for Florida football was sort of transferred over to Univ. of FLA when they finally got good in the mid 90s. Besides, many of us hated visor boy well before we'd even heard of Urbz.
2 reasons Ohio State fans hated Urban. 1) 41-14. 2) The Sharrif Floyd recruiting situation. I'm not sure if you were around these parts then or not, but to use an 11W term, the amount of butthurt around here was of Epic proportions. No one could believe a coach would make such claims. It must take a real scumbag to tell a kid God wanted him to coach a kid (though it was exaggerated and Urban didn't really say a lot of what was going around then). The Tebow/Urban love affair and all the attention Florida got made people mad too. There was some Gator envy around here. A lot of people kept saying, WE'VE BEEN TO THE MOST BCS GAMES!!!!! Like that took away Urban and Florida's 2 titles or something.
He could of coached any school anywhere and people would of hated Urban back then. He was the best coach in the business (and we wanted our guy to be) and his team was the best in the business (we wanted our team to be). It doesn't matter what region he was coaching in, Ohio State fans weren't going to like him.
I partly disagree. Tom Osborn was among the best in the business with the best program in the business in the mid 90s and few Buckeye fans resented/hated him for it. I also don't remember much hate for Bobby Bowden (beat Ohio State every time he faced them), Don James (who beat the hell out of Ohio State in 1986), Phil Fulmer, etc.
Urban was great at Utah and few Buckeyes fans resented/hated him then. Yes, the hatred of Urbz went to 11 after 41-14, but it was already percolating before that as soon as he took the job in Gainesville.
I remind them that tOSU leads the series 32-25-2 since the color tv era (1954) or you can use the Eisenhower administration 32-26-2 (1953).
Sorry to be a buzzkill, here, but here is some truth:
Since 1969, the first year of Bo and Woody, the series is even at 21-21-2. Both sides could start with a particular year or decade to give its team an advantage, but, lets face it, Michigan/OSU wasn't Michigan/OSU until Bo came to town. Additionally, those 44 years are going to cover football-watching lifetimes for the majority of the fans that are having these arguments.
I'm not going to look up all of the opponents that the OP listed, but the Chicago Athletic Club was far from High School talent. In fact, the team was made up of college graduates. One player was a former All-American at Princeton. It's not like OSU's strength of schedule started off with a bang: Otterbein, Wittenberg, Case, OU, Western Reserve, Ohio Medical, Muskingum, U of Wooster, Oberlin College, and its first rival Kenyon College. All of these opponents except Wooster count toward OSU's all-time record and OSU's first claimed undefeated season in 1899.
All-time winningest program...Why wouldn't Michigan fans claim it? 903 wins and .735 winning percentage. Nebraska has played 5 less games than Michigan and has 856 wins and a .702 winning percentage. OSU has 849 wins (including 2010 which all wins were vacated) so approximately a .720 WP, and ND has 865 wins with a .733 WP.
My advice:
Stay current and stay humble. Enjoy your win from this year. Don't discount losses from previous years or previous decades, and don't get caught up in the wins. History has proven to be cyclical. Just remember how lucky we are to be fans of the best rivalry in sports.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_football_teams_by_wins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan-Ohio_State_rivalry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1899_Ohio_State_Buckeyes_football_team
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_state_football
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Athletic_Association_Football_team
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Excellent post. Upvote for you.
Tsun being good makes the rivalry good. Nobody would care about Duke/North Carolina, Yankees/Red Sox, etc. if the games weren't competitive. All great rivalries have significant history that make them great. Ohio and tsun have history that predate the football rivalry.
With that said...I hate everything about tsun! Go Bucks!
There goes 'ol Hail being rational and respectful. Not the typical response we get from the knuckle draggers up north. Hail is right, karma is a bitch and she doesn't forget. I try to take the high road and talk to them, if I have to, about Flounders over all record as a HC and that he hasn't won shit in the B1G in the two years he has been there. Being rational and articulate usually confuses them and they then mutter something about Ohio or Coop. Like Buckeye Dude and B1G Dump, I live near Toledo and the majority of AACC fans here couldn't find AA let alone have ever been there. In general I usually have some modicum of respect for one of their graduates, but they are few and far between in NW Ohio. Most of them are "Walmart Skunkbears", or Hokey Pokey contrarians(I like AACC because everyone else likes Ohio).
Usually when I get the "Ohio" "insult"(because it ain't) I respond with, "I can understand your confusion, because you guys lose to any team with Ohio on their unis." That usually shuts them up.
I love the history, I love the tradtion and yes they have a lot of wins and a solid program. But those trends of pure dominance are changing with more Universities popping up to be "powerhouses" in certain sports.
It's no longer you can go to OSU, Michigan, Bama, USC or several other schools if you're a football player. And it's also no longer that there is only a certain amount talent that schools can get.
Sure Michigan had it's day and it was a good run, can't take that away from them even with vacated wins in Bball or the "Non-existent RichRod Era" but in the end it's right now. As of right now Michigan has both lost to OSU in football and basketball and that trend is something I hope to continue.
JT
John U. Bacon performed a public autopsy on Michigan during the Rodriguez era and it is published for all to see. Three and Out.
As for the basketball sanctions during the Chris Webber era, it is sadly just as public. But being public, OSU fans ought to know that one of the closest corollaries to Michigan's fiasco with Ed Martin was OSU's fiasco with Ed Rife.
And the comparisons are striking. Neither Ed Martin nor Ed Rife were officials with either university. Both men were hangers-on, using college athletes to advance their own interests and supposed prestige. Both men were themselves low-level criminals. Both managed to get favors from the two schools' athletic departments, and in both cases the real failure on the part of the two schools was to not enforce more distance between Martin and Rife, and the players in whom they were interested.
Michigan's case involved the wholesale corruption of a small handful of players (Webber, Rose {probably}, Traylor, and Taylor) and Ohio State's case involved the very minor corruption of perhaps a few more players. In Michigan's case, the school cooperated with the investigation, and got whacked with serious sanctions.
In Ohio State's case, the school mostly cooperated although a few officials dissembled and therefore saw the matter elevated to an otherwise undeserving level.
In the case of Michigan basketball as well as the more recent case of Ohio State football, neither scandal concerned illegal recruiting by officials, nor any academic fraud, nor cheating on the field of play, nor any competitive advantage. Both cases were mostly embarassments, to the schools and the NCAA. In both cases, successful coaches who were widely admired and thought to have been very nice guys got fired; Steve Fisher and Jim Tressel.
In any event, the old Michigan baskbetball investigation and the recent Ohio State football investigation were serious, and both schools appear to have responded very much appropriately. The one outlier was the Michigan football investigation of 2009, which was mostly a joke, without serious merit, resulted in no major sanctions, and is more than anything a stain on the newspaper writers who concocted the story.
Every school has their share of dirty laundry when it comes to athletics, we just have the fortune of being (and yourself included with Michigan) a prestigious University that gets the evil eye thrown in any direction of misconduct or rule violations.
Take Tatgate and compare it to USC or Miami of recent ... it's a beaten horse at this point but ridiculous to even compare them. Yes, it was a rules violation and dealt with, albeit maybe a bit extreme, but none-the-less we took it on the chin. Then look at the "Extra Practices" of RichRod ... to be honse it was equally if not more ridiculous of an event.
Either way it's almost as if every prestigious University (outside of the SEC) has to constantly now look over their shoulder to make sure the NCAA and their lackeys aren't sneaking up behind to get us.
JT
Asa college basketball fan, its very disappointing that you guys wont invite Chris Weber back since his interaction ban or whatever it is has now expired. I would also like to see the Final Four banners reraised. Those teams were tremendously talented and played really well together. I love watching them on Espn classic since they played before my birth. Watching their games and highlights, they were a special team that deserves to have the banners put up again in Chrysler.
Here's an idea; you can invite Webber to Columbus. Knock yourselves out. I don't think the other four will come.
My favorite suggestion as to what to do with the Fab Five's two Final Four banners: place them in a large metal garbage can. Pour a large amount of gasoline on them. Light a match, and toss it onto the gas-soaked banners. After the fire burns out, dump the ashes on the grave of the now-deceased Ed Martin somewhere in Detroit.
Living in Kentucky, I get to hear about college records ALL THE TIME!!!!! Most all time wins, best win percentage, most final fours, 2nd most championships, and on and on and on.
Here's the thing. OHIO STATE FANS DO IT TOO. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen about recruits going somewhere else where people say why would a recruit go to that program when they could come to a program with over 800 wins, 7 titles, and tradition? It's annoying because it's Michigan, but Ohio State fans do it ALL THE TIME. Ask UC fans they are always smacking over the head about tradition.
Let's not be too hypocritical here, most of us Buckeyes have been guilty of beating our chests about tradition and the history of the program as well.
The best thing to happen to mich football was Bo. The rivalry became what it is today bc of the ten year war and his defection from woody. I always tell my mich buddies that without OSU and woody they don't have Bo and probably arent the program they are today. Since the modern era we have more wins and would surely be many more if not for Bo. The best things to ever happen at mich all come back to Ohio one way or another whether it be they're coach or heisman winning players ie. Woodson, Howard. God I love Ohio. Go bucks!
The guy that Don Canham wanted, to replace Bump Elliott (whose record at Michigan is vastly underrated, owing mostly to Woody Hayes' success at the same time) was a fellow from Pennsylvania; Joe Paterno. Canham spoke with Paterno, offered him the job, and told him he'd give him whatever he wanted. Paterno thought about it, decided against it, and then suggested the name of Bo Schembechler to Canham.
Canham hired Bo Schembechler on a handshake. Bo asked about a contract; he thought that if Micihgan didn't win in a couple of years, he'd be fired. Canham said not to worry. Canham told Bo that if he didn't win in a couple of years, they'd both be fired.
My church in Toledo was called St. Adalbert when it was created (full name now is Sts. Adalbert & Hedwig). Did the weasels play the church congregation back then?
Since 1906 (when the forward pass was legalized) the record is 52-44-5 in michigans favor. One more decade like the last one and we've got them! Lol