I understand that Paterno is absolutely culpable, and I am all for criticizing him, because he should be criticized. I just think that we're being a little harsh on the psu fans who are still in his corner. He was the person who made penn state football relevant year after year, he was by all accounts a great guy, and he had been untouchable for 50 years. obviously we now know that he wasn't what he was made out to be, and since we don't have a vested interest in him, we are quick to adjust to the new image of paterno as a not-so-nice guy.
i'm just saying that we shouldnt hold it against psu fans for holding out hope that this isnt true. logic tells them that he is culpable, but their whole lives are telling them not to believe it.
in the span of about 6 months, paterno went from: saint to good guy who shouldve done more, to dead, to accessory to a child rapist. thats alot to take in in a couple months, and i think we shouldn't hold it against someone whose slow to adjust
"He was by all accounts a great guy"...
You know except for that account on which he let kids get raped and was pretty ok with it. You forgot to include that one.
I went to the 2007 game in State College. Screw Penn State fans, most of the ones I've encountered are a-holes.
These are the bastards that made the Legends vs. Liars shirts. They need to sleep in the bed they make.
There is no easing up on Paterno, he enabled a child rapist to continue to rape kids for almost 10 years. I used to have great respect for the man because of football, now I loathe the man who was complicite in the rape of young boys.
Anyone who defends Paterno at this point is either living with their head in the sands or cares more about football and PSU than the welfare of children.
Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University
Couldn't agree more, enabled a child rapist. Man is a piece of crap, and anyone who defends him is ignorant.
...No. PSU fans who havent smelled the extremely strong stench of lies and coverups (all for the sake of a disgusting child rapist) shouldn't be defended...their ignorance should not be rewarded.
My opinion: look up ^. No quarter whatsoever for those who still defend him - they do so solely because he was a good football coach. He allowed & enabled the worst kind of criminal. I'm fresh out of sympathy.
On the other hand - those PSU fans who are rational & are ashamed of what has happened - those are the ones who don't deserve to be labeled as ignorant & lumped in with the rest. I imagine there are more decent ones out there than not & that the "vocal minority" are speaking for everyone right now...I could be wrong.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
No pity whatsoever for Penn State fans. They dug this hole with their arrogance and their denial. Do you think they pitied us when Tressel was getting dragged through the dirt? Not for a second.
The North remembers.
PCON258, wear your buckeye gear to an OSU game at PSU, then explain to us again why we should take it easy on them. Also check out Youtube; some very mature and friendly fans they have there at PSU...
To put it out there, all the "facts" I've read about is the one email where one guy tells the other to hold up on going to the authorities after he talked to Joe and the need to confront Sandusky head on in a sensitive way. For all anyone knows JoePa said don't Chmura this guy, be positive he's that creepy then do something about it. Then you had some bitter lady saying it was a boys club and some guys assumptions based on these "facts". Then you had the media pushing the story in this direction as hard as they could/can. I haven't been following it too close so please correct me if I'm wrong. But it all feels a little Dorhman to me. The media never helps. I'm pretty sure most Buckeye fans know what that's like.
i think alot of you misunderstood me. i wasn't saying that paterno was a good guy. i was saying that up until 6 months ago, there was no reason to think that he wasnt. based on what i have read, the man covered up for a child molestor and if he wasnt dead, should probably be in prison. I'm just saying that if the shoe was on the other foot, would we all be so quick to change?
It's hard to go from worshipping someone to hating them in under 6 months. theres a transition period. its natural to try to find reasons to not believe what is being said. im not saying people should defend paterno, im just saying that we shouldnt assume that these people are bad people, they are just having trouble seperating fact from their perception of what kind of man paterno was
Except your point is argued by the minority that exists of rational PSU fans. Go on Lions247 and read the thread about Webb. There is your normal nonsense, but then are some enlightened Penn State fans that are telling their peers what they need to hear: Paterno wasn't falsely victimized, that he's truly a horrible person, and he had fooled all of them for years.
If anything, I would feel betrayed by the man i once praised, I wouldn't try to cling to his facade.
Is it Saturday yet
You asked so here it is. You could not be more wrong, the former director of the FBI ran an 8 month investigation that inspected millions of documents which led to the conclusion that Paterno was directly implicated in the cover up and enablement of Sandusky. This is no "he said she said"or ESPN blowing something up to make it news. These are cold hard facts from one of the former top law enforcement officers in the country. The only person more vile on campus than Paterno was Sandusky. End of story.
Kevin
OH!!!!!
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University
What cold hard facts did the fbi guy uncover? From what I've seen it's all assumptions based on interviews, and they mention some documents. that email was the only document I've read about linking Joe and it wasn't very condemning IMO. The only other documentation supports that JoePa wouldnt let this lady punish his football players. Not really sure just saying this guy was a former top law officer does anything to convince me of anything. It probably isn't hard to demonstrate that our government can and does make mistakes. I just want to know what cold hard factual information exists. Then I'll jump on the hate JoePa as a person bandwagon.
@ original poster:
I take great exception to your line: "... he was by all accounts a great guy, and he had been untouchable for 50 years ..." This makes it look like you think he was a great guy & did nothing wrong until this one incident. 1,000 good deeds do not make up for the enabling of 1 child being raped, let alone multiple children. And, if he was selfish & calculatingly deceiving enough to cover up CHILD RAPES for 14 ! years ... don't you think he may have covered a few other things up, too?!?
btw - I live not far from State College, and have known a few guys who have played for him in the late 90's, early-to-mid 00's & believe it: Joe defiinitely had a lot of other things swept under the rug ... for decades.
btw part 2 - this one incident wasn't just "one mistake" as people say, (i.e. Matt Millen). A "mistake" is having that last beer at the bar, then driving home & getting a DUI, thank God you didn't kill yourself or somebody else in a wreck. But, this was a 14 year pattern of cover-up. Make no mistake - it's wasn't a mistake.
btw part 3 - do you think PSU fans would say to take it easy on OSU fans if the tables were turned? No. I know that's the answer because when we had tat-gate last year, which are about 1,000,000th as bad as PSU's...those arrogant PSU fans were screaming "death penalty". But, it's really not about the fans...it's about PSU and that football program paying for THE worst cover-up & scandal in the history of sports, and one of the worst in the history of this country, for that matter.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
@ original poster: you write: "I'm just saying that if the shoe was on the other foot, would we all be so quick to change?"
First off, the shoe was on the other foot, (or maybe just the sock), to a lesser degree with "Tat-gate" & we saw the pompous, holier than thou are reaction by PSUers, not just a few - but a lot of them. But, if you're asking if this exact incident of child rape, the "shoe on the other foot" - well, that wouldn't happen ANYwhere but State College. Rape can happen anywhere, but the calculated cover-up of rape? And, to this disgusting degree?...in the world of college athletics, it could only happen at a place like Penn State. Why? There was a bad combination that you'll be hard-pressed to find in other places: a lifetime-tenured coach who had a god complex. He was surrounded by enablers, and he was bigger than the Pres., the Vice Pres, the Board, (who only fired him AFTER the fact), the AD, and the local cops. Joe wanted this covered up, therefore, it was covered up. btw - Joe handpicked his AD, and many others in power positions at PSU.
p.s. to anybody who is still defending this phony, Joe Pa: that is fine if you want to, BUT, you do know that you're defending a guy, who, if he were still alive ---- would almost certainly be facing jailtime? You know that, right?
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
"can we ease up on the psu hate?"
NO!
Did they "ease up" on us during the Tressel mess? I've hated State Penn fans ever since friends of mine in TBDBITL had bags of urine thrown at them and had instruments stolen.
Nope...sorry! No one did to OSU fans when the tats for trinkets went down and those lovely daily updates on ESPN. They brought back CFB live early for Christ sake last year just for that scandal ppl! They barely did it until just recently...and this involved child molestation that was covered up and occurred over a 14 year period that we know of...children that were not reprehensible of these actions...just sickening that any of these fans can find this forgivable and not just a "dark period" or bad time of Joe's regime. Who cares if they get bad press and looked upon as though they're horrible (Im not saying your regular PSU fan...Im talking the ones who say Joe was innocent and this and that in defense). That's what I can't stand...I'd hate to say this but Franco Harris as well. He has kids and is blinded by what his coach did while he was there in late 60's to early 70's. I know Tress's players still stick up for him but there are others that know TP and others were f#@king up and needed to be dealt with...well they weren't and look how that turned out. I have no remorse for PSU fans...the children that were abused...most definitely I do...they just wanted a father figure to look up to and look what they got...a monster that was the head of the Second Mile organization... oh and btw...there are others coming out as far back as 1970 about Jerry Sandusky...just sick!
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Sorry, PCON, but the answer appears to be no.
I have a feeling that if people actually read your post, went out for a cup of coffee and cooled off, and read the post again, you might get a different response. However, the entire leadership collectively did something so heinous that "everyone" is extremely angry, and will continue to be so for a long time. So that kind of makes you right about Penn St. fans needing time to adjust, but similarly you have people who will be screaming about how Penn St. needs to fall because of this, which extends to hating on Penn St. fans.
Personally, I'm reading through the Freeh report, and I don't think any Penn St. fan who reads through this stuff will be singing the praises of JoePa for long.
"Samsonite, I was WAY off!" Sorry, PCON, ain't happenin'.
I don't mind the Paterno hate. I don't hate him but I won't defend him too much until I have read the report or enough people have that I get the facts second hand. However, I do disagree with calls to disband the football team etc. Garbage that. There is no retribution to be had there and it would be an injustice to the school.
OK, start the hollerin and wailin, "the victims the victims the victims". The fact is this DOES go beyond the football program. It is a criminal matter for real courts and not the NCAA. The NCAA's only role is to determine what NCAA violations occured and administer the same sanctions that other schools have received for those violations. The horrific nature of the crime should not be the NCAA's concern. Obviously they did not take in to account the nature of the crime when they sentenced the Buckeyes. The NCAA is not a court of law and they are not in a position to compensate for what might be perceived as a lack of retribution that can be had in the courts.
So all of your outrage is duly noted and appreciated but there will be football at PSU. So maybe we should start talking about beating them on the field and forget all the fantasies like throwing them out fo the big ten etc.
Why I will not ease up on PSU:
1. Many of their fans are assholes.
2. Do you think they'd ease up on us over our "cheating" if their program wasn't dealing with their scandal?
3. I'd understand them defending Paterno as generally a "great guy" more if Paterno committed some OSU-like NCAA violations - like say he covered for players who received improper benefits and played them while ineligible. But come on, he covered for a child rapist, and it is not reasonable to defend him as a "great guy" overall for doing that. People have to realize that in life, you'll find out that at least one person you know isn't really who you thought they were. The sooner you accept it and move on, the better.
4. Did I mention many of their fans are assholes? They sure thought they were better than us when we had our scandal. I'd rather see their fans be cocky than have children being raped behind the scenes bring their program and cockiness down. However, I can't say that I feel particularly sympathetic for them - at least the ones that STILL want to defend JoePOS.
You can blend reasons 1 and 4 and 2 and 4 together if you want, but you get my point. "We are!"...Assholes!
Class of 2010.
"and I say no....nay...never. No Nay Never No More"
This is a thing....
I just wish Joe Paterno lived long enough to watch his reputation crash and burn. Penn State fans refuse to see it. For that, I will mercilessly insult them. They are a wart on the Big Ten. The entire school, its fans, and their disgusting attitude towards their child rapist enabling hero should all be purged from football. They don't deserve to witness the majesty of college football anymore.
And believe me when I say this. Penn State fans are not slow to adjust. They WONT adjust. They can't. And somewhere, hopefully somewhere very hot, Joe is smiling-that's exactly what he wanted all along.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
STOP. WETTING. YORSELF.
Schooey, you're not adding anything to the conversation by writing "stop wetting yourself" in every thread related to the PSU scandal.
Are Adam Brenneman and Dorian Johnson committed to The Ohio State? If so id be glad to let up.
Follow me @jaythesportsguy
Ease up on my PSU hate? No way, my hate is strong and keeps in trim by smashing butterflies with a sledgehammer.
EASE UP?!?!? I attended Penn State for a year . (1990-1991) As a die hard Buckeye, I was insulted on a daily basis by small minded opinionated WE ARE PENN STATE PEOPLE. With their "holier than art though" opinion of themselves. I've never encountered more smug, ignorant pricks in my life. AND this was way back in 1990!!!!!!! Unless you've experiened for yourselves, these posts and accounts do little to explain how truly entitled these people are. We have a repution as Buckeye fanatics as being myopic A-holes, then as that "Fine" humanitarian said, "Come to Penn SHHHHTATE!"
These people truly STILL believe they're Better than everyone else. Talked to old friends in the past few days and they still manage to rip on Woody Hayes for "punching a kid!"
Really!?! Go watch that scene in I think it was Dodgeball where the line goes something like"Here at Global Gym WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU!
FUCK PENN STATE AND THEIR FANS!!!! They deserve more than they'll even come close to getting for what they did to those poor children. IGNORANT BASTARDS......
There are winners and there are losers, and then there are "THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY"
FOOTBALL BUCKEYES!
Joe Paterno's statue was taken down this morning
Oh, and BTW they're keeping Paterno's name on the Library to remind everyone of his wonderful commitment to the kids. What did I just say???^^^^
There are winners and there are losers, and then there are "THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY"
FOOTBALL BUCKEYES!
NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.
First of all I don't have much compassion for a fanbase that throws bags of pee at my band. Second, I don't have much compassion for a fanbase that unapologetically defends Paterno and this program to the death without seeing any wrong in what happened. The MOST I've seen any PSU supporter concede on all accounts and reactions I've seen/heard out of Happy Valley is that "JoePa should've done more." Hell, I would've taken JoePa doing less. As in doing less to actively conceal a child rapist in his midst and allow him to continue to use the PSU football program as bait to lure in even more victims. As long as there are misguided Penn Staters out there backing up their "saint" at all costs they're going to continue to receive backlash from everywhere.
When to a significantly significantly lesser extent we were having our issues with Tress, it was a tough pill to swallow but I had to step up and accept that Jim Tressel was wrong, he's going to get punished for his wrongdoing and he should. He soiled his own and Ohio State's names and it was time for us to move forward without his association, as hard and strange as it seemed and still seems. That was over some TATTOOS not child rape. The school itself needs to cancel the football season to put some perspective into some of these peoples' lives. If this happened at Ohio State I would be fine with/support putting football down for a year so that everyone may get their feet back on the ground. It is mostly the fans and not so much the crimes that lead me to think that. This is a major part of the problem there and at numerous major colleges with major athletic programs.
Due to the nature of PSU and what all we've learned (or affirmed depending on your views) and has come to light, the program and JoePa weren't as honorable and saintly. Rather this was just an image that was created and idolized and protected at all costs once the snowball got rolling downhill with too much velocity. Even if we assume Paterno was as much a man of virtue as we were led to believe, you can't defend him on the grounds that he just did this one thing that shouldn't soil all of the good he's done otherwise. That's like saying the Titanic or the Hindenburg were rousing successes....oh, except for those one little times they sank or crashed.
Yeah, but they're still being defiant and keeping his name on the library. Neither that place Nor their people will ever change. My best friend from there still believes Paterno is a Saint. They truly don't understand the whole world is watching. They're more worried about Paterno's legacy than the atrocities that were forced upon the children.
There are winners and there are losers, and then there are "THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY"
FOOTBALL BUCKEYES!
Then put Pete Rose in the hall of fame. And, let Jim Tressel coach again. We shouldn't let their one mistake take away from all the wonderdul things they did for the game and the community.
And out come the bleeding heart liberals..............
There are winners and there are losers, and then there are "THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY"
FOOTBALL BUCKEYES!
Last comment uncalled for I apologize. I better take a break. F5......
There are winners and there are losers, and then there are "THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY"
FOOTBALL BUCKEYES!
They didn't ease up on us. No need to ease up on them...
If it is true that they are taking down JoePa's statue and voluntarily agreed on penalties with the NCAA, then yes I can ease off the PSU hate and we can all start moving forward with change and healing.
if neither of those rumors s true, and PSU fans continue to claim they should be able to "move forward" while defending JoePa and making no changes to their program, then no, I will not ease off the hate. Accepting responsibility is about actions, not words and just letting time pass.
Yeah take it easy Paul...why don't you stop talking for a while....sit the next couple of plays out...if you know what I mean. Anchorman quote btw Paul...just kidding man...
I know where you're coming from. I'm a parent of 5 and this is just sick. I can see why you're fired up...I've been since the stories of the court room proceedings came out. I had to make myself stop looking it up to read about it bc I couldn't stand thinking about it...all the while, knowing someone with kids was letting this happen (FOR YEARS as we now know). It's all good Paul...don't let the sensors on here tell you different or it's a family site and all that BS. It's America still last I heard....let it flow ;-) BTW...remember the Ohio guy that got severely assulted at PSU football game in 2007 in front of more than 110 thousand ppl...that was my friend...too bad he was with friends from PA right...so I know exacly what you're talking about. He was just minding his own business too sitting outside Beaver Stadium with his so-called PSU friends...just had an OSU shirt on. That's why they started shit with him...pathetic right. Goes along with your experiences at PSU in 1990 and 91...
In case you'd like to see this pic above in it's entirety...here it is:
http://youtu.be/V1PqslRMWaE
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
I have sympathy for the Penn State fans who understand what happened and are handling this rationally...all 17 of them.
As for the rest of their fanbase, the ones who threw batteries at me in 2005, the ones who claim that Tressel's evil doings were on the same level as Paterno's, and the ones who basically laughed all the way to our bowl ban about the tattoos: To hell with them.
I, for one, welcome our new coaching overlords.
interesting thoughts, i guess i never realized how reviled the penn state fanbase was by us. i always knew about the urine incidents, but im sure there are things like that in all fanbases, and i try not to let a couple idiots become representative of an entire massive group of people.
also, since apparently nobody except @crimson read my post, let me make this very clear. I DO NOT THINK JOE PATERNO IS A GOOD PERSON. what i said in the original post was that 6 years ago, there was no way anyone in the general public could know that he was in fact, not a good guy, at all.
Thank you BUCKEYE76BHOP. I needed that:) A little Anchorman always warms the soul.
I dismissed the fans of PSU as ignorant all those years ago. The recent behavior at University Park in light of all the facts sickens me.
Good Night and "Stay Classy Columbus!" :)
There are winners and there are losers, and then there are "THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY"
FOOTBALL BUCKEYES!
Your welcome brother...we all need a little Champ Kind in times like that;-) Go BUCKS! ONLY 39 days till 9/1 when the Red Hawks come to town...and 125 till tTUN come to the shoe to have something to eat;-) I think Denard won't be doing that silly eating reference this year...oh I tend to think NOT!
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987