Why not Tressel?

Menexenus's picture
October 20, 2011 at 5:51p
57 Comments

With all the recent talk about Urban Meyer's inevitability as the next head coach of our beloved Buckeyes, I have to ask you all:  what's the argument against re-hiring Jim Tressel?  It was Ramzy's moving article describing the unseen good that Jim Tressel did as head coach that originally brought me to this website.  So if we all know what a quality human being Jim Tressel is, and we all know what an amazing head coach he was, then why are we not supporting him as the next head coach?

 

I ask you, if you could have anyone, wouldn't it be Tressel?  Do you care what ESPN thinks?  Do you care what the NCAA thinks?  Do you care what ANYBODY else thinks who doesn't care about Buckeye football?  Then get behind this movement:  RE-HIRE TRESSEL!  (Seriously.)

Comments

Menexenus's picture

Here's another potential benefit of re-hiring Tressel: Fickell would probably stay.  There would be no "demotion" if Tressel returned to his old post.  He'd probably agree to return to his old position (or even a "promotion" to Defensive Coordinator).  But if Urban Meyer is hired, Fickell (and, thus, also Vrabel) are probably gone for some MAC school. 

Re-hiring Tressel allows us to keep some valuable coaching talent that will be lost with Urban Meyer.  Consider that, too.

Real fans stay for Carmen.

Menexenus's picture

Here's Ramzy's article that I referenced above.  Read it again and tell me Tressel is not the best man for the job.

 

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2011/05/the-man-who-wasnt-there#more

 

Real fans stay for Carmen.

Colby3333's picture

Agree.....i have thought this all along. Not sure tOSU would do it, but it sure would fling some mud back in some faces that have tried to take us down. Look @ it this way......kind of a 1 year suspension. Could you imagine if Tress was hired back & won the whole damn thing right out of the gate?

Buckeyebrowny919's picture

you know..just for sh!ts and gigs...is this a possibility? i would cry the day it happened..no joke

 

To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift - Steve Prefontaine

William's picture

This is ridiculous. I don't mean to be blunt but those of you that hold Pryor and co. In such disdain should feel even stronger about Tressel, his actions are what will screw the football team over more than anything else. What the players committed were minor violations, but what Tressel committed was major. Selling your trinkets isn't that bad, lying to the NCAA and covering up is. The man is a great coach but his time at OSU as a football coach has forever passed.

Menexenus's picture

Your sense of wrongdoing is way out of whack.  Tressel signed a piece of paper (that all head coaches have to sign every year), saying he was unaware of any potential violations.  Signing a piece of paper that you have to sign every year is not a big deal in my mind.  Every year you sign your tax form saying that everything is perfectly accurate.  If you've ever fudged anything on your taxes, then you've done essentially the same thing Tressel did.  If you haven't, good for you, but the point still stands.  And that point is that what Tressel did was not such a big deal that it should be the end of his coaching career.  He made the wrong choice and he has certainly been punished for it.  Sitting out one entire season is a fitting punishment for his crime.  Saying that his crime was so great that he can never coach again at OSU is just way out of whack in my opinion.

Real fans stay for Carmen.

William's picture

When you possibly severely damage the program like he did, its perfectly understandable. His cover up may lead to us being hit with FTM or LOIC because he didn't report the infractions when he was informed of them. My point is people on thsi site need to cut all of the TP and co. hate unless they're going to say the same about Tressel, because his acts will damage our football team much more than the few players.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Just to clarify: your argument is that the reason Tressel's actions were really bad was because the consequences of those actions were really bad.

That's a strong utilitarian argument. By that logic, if the "infractions" that got Tress into trouble had never emerged, then Tressel's actions would have been perfectly fine. The problem was that he got caught, which "may lead us to being hit with FTM or LOIC . . ."

On the other hand, if you didn't mean to suggest what I outline above, you'll need to explain why Tressel's actions were wrong, aside from consequences.     

Buckeyejason's picture

Oh god, Tressel's gone guys, he's gone for good!

It's like a girl dumping you and thinking you'll be back together again one day. Sounds very pathetic.

Let's move on folks!

BUCKEYES BABY!

Menexenus's picture

Let's get over the whole "dumping" analogy.  It sheds no light on the issue.  The issue is: who is the best coach to lead the Buckeyes? 

 

Why should we be daunted by the opinions of others when those opinions are misinformed?  If you believe he's a good guy, if you believe he's a good coach, if you believe he has been punished enough, and if you believe that he has learned from his mistake, then why not hire the best man for the job?

Real fans stay for Carmen.

William's picture

If you feel this away about Tressel then you must feel the same about the players who stayed? Like Posey and Herron?

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Tressel might very well be the best man for the job, if you understand the job to be teaching and mentoring young men, managing the coaching staff, winning football games, etc.

Unfortunately (1), the "job" also involves managing the program in such a way as not to be vulnerable to the arbitrary "rulings" (more like depredations) of the corrupt, labrynthine NCAA. Because, unfortunately (2), a large segment of the NCAA participating instututions will continue to support the existing regime.

It would be emotionally satisfying (for people like me) if Ohio State (hopefully with the support of the BT) took on the corrupt NCAA regime head-on, using a mutlipronged attack - legal, political, investigative, financial, etc. Under that scenario, rehiring Tressel would be a FU to the NCAA.

But, again, the university probably does not have sufficient support yet to tell the NCAA to GFY; thus, they we'll have to say, "thank you, sir, may I have another."

The NCAA's day of reckoning will eventually arrive, though.

Buckeyejason's picture

"The issue is: who is the best coach to lead the Buckeyes?"

I'd have to say Urban Meyer at this point. 

BUCKEYES BABY!

JakeBuckeye's picture

I've got to be honest, those who consider this a serious option I find hard to take seriously. Come on fellas.

Menexenus's picture

Is "come on fellas" your entire argument?  I've given you lots of reasons why he should be considered.  Tell me why he shouldn't.

Real fans stay for Carmen.

AGL's picture

1. Bollman 2. siscilliano or however it is spelled

BucksfanXC's picture

I can give you tons of emails to Ted Sarniak, can you give me one to the AD's office or Gene Smith or anyone in compliance? Because if you could, he'd probably still be our coach.

I mean that whole 10.1 violation, all three of them!

“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”  - Woody

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

I can answer that question in one hyphenated word.

"Show-cause"

Buckeyejason's picture

The man is not going to step down during perhaps the biggest drama scene in Buckeye history..to which he basically caused for not being honest and taking initiative in the first place, and all of a sudden get Hired back as head coach.

Not going to happen! So why keep thinking about it?

He's with the Colts now, he had a great 10 year run here.

Its time for a new of Buckeye football to begin.

BUCKEYES BABY!

btalbert25's picture

The man is not coming back to Ohio State, even if they offered him the job.  Seriously, he's the scapegoat here for Ohio State.  All the wrong doing and problems with the university, the university basically said was a Jim Tressel problem.  I'd lose respect for the guy if after all that he decided to take the job again.

He's going to get a show-clause also, so it's going to be damn near impossible to hire him back.  Also, don't you think that opens the door for more NCAA mess?  The university tells the NCAA all this stuff is a Jim Tressel problem, the get rid of Tressel, and the NCAA cuts them some slack for it.  Go back and hire the guy after the fact, to me that pisses the NCAA off and even more scrutiny comes to the program. 

I liked the time we had with Tressel, but it's time to move on from that era.

Hoody Wayes's picture

Why not Tressel?

Because Jim Tressel lied and perpetrated a cover-up.

The Ohio State University - as an academic institution and athletic program - cannot condone such behavior from those it employs. Above all else - including its beloved, ex-football coach - it must place the reputation of, the university.

 

ArTbkward's picture

Can OSU hire Meyer as FB Coach, hold on to Gene Smith long enough for Tressel's show-cause penatly to run out, then fire Smith and hire Tress as AD?

A girl can dream....

We should strive to keep thy name, of fair repute and spotless fame...
(Also, I'm not a dude)

RBuck's picture

Yep. Just hire Mr. Compliance back as AD. That oughta make the NCAA as happy as a pig in shit.

Serious though...Tress would have made a good AD if and when he stepped down on his own terms.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

AGL's picture

can I have a hit off that bong and swig from that bottle of JD

Doug Buckles's picture

I would prefer to see the opposite: lack of preparation, lack of adjustment, lack of a spine, lack of ingenuity, lack of efficient talent usage (ballard), refusal to constantly evolve as football coaching requires it.

tx-fla-lsu-usc-usc

-many more turdfests that elite programs would manage to find a way to win one of them.just one.

-prioritizing the defense and special teams ahead of the offense (admittedly), instead of embracing all three aspects as equal points of a three pronged attack. in other words, bad offenses (two years excluded).

-a fg from the one, when a touchdown seals the game, with a 6'5 240 lb qb, vs the team/coach that embarrassed you the previous year, at a night game in the shoe.

-please re-read that previous sentence.

-no more underutilization of the best athletes in the country, spineless coaching decisions(if you trust your defense and love field position, you would take more chances in enemy territory because that would create more opportunities at the end zone which increases your success rate of winning games bases off the idea that touchdowns will sway momentum in your favor), and lack of the killer instinct to step on the throat of the underwhelming opponent as a coach to ensure victory (many feared leaders on the field of battle showed mercy, football is a scaled down version of war, same concepts apply).

-why would you want any of that back? to be able to say we won the big ten?

-to take our place back in the upper echelon of the football elite will require putting beatings on the opponents in national games (Cal, Nebraska, VA Tech, Oklahoma) in the future. this is not a bad thing, it is simply the way it has to be, OSU gets knocked of king of the mountain style and must climb back to the top. do you honestly feel tress would be able to show the required nastiness to make OSU's presence known on the national scene.

-please god no. night terrors.

 

Run_Fido_Run's picture

Okay, you have my attention. Now you just have to provide us with a blueprint for becoming the almost mythical program you describe.

We could try to emulate the success of other programs that reached "the upper echelon of the football elite."

How about the USC (Pete Carroll) model? Oh wait . . . not with the corrupt NCAA amplifying its dirty bright lights on our program.

Florida? Sure, if we count only 2006 to 2009. 

LSU? Hmm . . . this model could work! The idea is that when you lose 2 games one year, even though you have the most talented team in CFB, you find a way to back into the NCG against another team that also backed into the NCG, and then you win it all! Then go 17-9 the next two years without losing your status as "upper echelon of the football elite."

The Bama "model"? Sure, all we need to do is hire Nick Saban in his prime, which = "the Bama model" - w/out Saban there is no "Bama model." Of course, if we hire Saban, he might no longer be in his prime two or three from now, but . . .

Oregon? Wait . . .

Texas? Sure, as long as Vince Young is available to implement the model.

Okahoma?     

btalbert25's picture

I seriously don't know that Tressel would have ever become the AD anyway.  It was documented by his old boss that he wasn't adequate when it came to reporting violations and compliance issues.  That's not the stuff AD's are made of.

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Perhaps I see it differently. After reading Tressel's testimony in front of the NCAA, I am convinced the man was genuinely concerned with two things: A) the players safety. and B) possibly compromising an ongoing federal investigation. This guy was drug dealer who had witnessed a murder. He didn't have all the facts. Hindsight is 20/20. What the hell would you have done if you were put in a situation like that?

Imagine he does run to compliance right when he gets the email. Imagine now that the press finds out why. Now imagine the US Attorney calling Tressel and saying "We're going to prosecute you for compromising a federal investigation, and that lawyer who tipped you off is getting disbarred."

Obviously, the situation wasn't as bad as it seems now. But what the hell would have gone through your head if you'd received that email? Would you be more concerned about your job, or the safety of the players?

Granted, the whole situation was botched from December onward, but Tressel did mention in December that he had received an email. And Tressel did NOT lobby for the Tat-5 to play in the Sugar Bowl. Jim Delaney did.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I agree with all your points. The great majority of people who have cast judgment on JT aren't 1/100th the man he is.    

Except, JT did commit one unspeakable crime: he held the corrupt, clownish NCAA in contempt, which is simply unforgiveable to the potentates in Indianapolis. 

ArTbkward's picture

Sometimes I like to think JT's biggest mistake was replying to the lawyer's email from his work email.  If he had picked up his personal cell and called the guy instead, would this have all been avoided?  Not that that makes it right....  just sayin'.

We should strive to keep thy name, of fair repute and spotless fame...
(Also, I'm not a dude)

AltaBuck's picture

That's just it.  I hate it when the media and others portray JT as some master cover up artist that has been doing it for years (JT - "oh golly gee wiz I just poured my coffee on the exchange server").  WTF. JT did not cover anything up.  He just did not give a shit because his players came first because in his world Team = Family. JT knew this could happen someday, and when it did, he fell on the sword.  The guy has balls as big as church bells.

I have been known on occasion to howl at the moon. - Crash Davis

btalbert25's picture

I loved Tressel the coach and man, but I'm not going to cannonize him as easily as everyone else.  He could've went to Gene Smith with the info and said what the hell do we do with this?  Instead, he contacts a shady character Sarniak.  Everyone acts as if this was some isolated incident, but Geiger nailed Tressel for this stuff on evals.  He had a history of not reporting infractions to compliance.  You can choose to believe whatever reason you want, but the fact of the matter was, he has sat on info in the past, it's not just the media who says it, it was his old boss who said it. 

I'm not saying he's a bad person or anything else, I'm just saying it wasn't the first time he chose to not go to the right people with the information.  If you want to believe it was to protect his kids from scary drug dealers or he didn't want to interfere with a federal investigation that's your choice, but this was not an isolated incident.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

We don't cannonize JT.

First, we take all the human beings in the CFB universe. Every human being is flawed - is a "sinner" if you prefer.

Second, we compare the imperfect JT to all the other imperfect human beings, especially including those who've cast judgment on JT.

Third, we conclude that flawed, imperfect JT is among the best of the flawed, imperfect people out there - in terms of character, impact on young people's lives, wisdom, etc.

Lastly, we tell the sanctimonious people, who are considerably more flawed and imperfect than JT, to GFTs.     

btalbert25's picture

I don't knock anyone for respecting the man, he was great, I'm just saying there are people who act has if he is some sort of saint incapable of doing things wrong.  I'm pointing out that it has been documented that he has failed to report violations in the past, leading me to believe it's not so crazy to think a federal case or shady characters weren't his only motivation to keep quiet.  In fact, perhaps he believed if anything came back on him, those excuses alone would be enough to get him out of hot water. 

He was a great mentor for the kids, he did great things in the community, and he should be respected for that sure, but you can respect him for what he has done and will continue to do, and also recognize that he may not always have acted with the best intentions in mind.  He is, as you say human, and therefore flawed.

Run_Fido_Run's picture

JT "failed to report violations" to the corrupt, clownish NCAA.

I'll repeat (as above) that JT's biggest "sin" was that he held the corrupt, clownish NCAA in contempt, which is unforgiveable to the potentates in Indy. I'm sure the man has plenty of flaws, but since he's fairly guarded for a public personality, I wouldn't know which ones particular. IMO, holding the NCAA in contempt is a virtue, not a sin.

 

btalbert25's picture

It doesn't matter what our opinion on the rules or NCAA are though.  It matters that there is a set of rules that govern certain programs who are members of the NCAA and when you break them you can screw over your program pretty bad. 

Pryor and the Tat 5 are made out to be villains and somehow Tressel gets a pass.  Had the info come to light immediately, guys would've lost some playing time last year, but probably not 5 games or basically your whole senior season.  Pryor and Posey's draft stock may be through the roof at this point.  More importantly, though, it screwed over players who did things the right way, like Sweat and Brewster. 

He protected 5 (2 since originally it was just Pryor and Posey that he knew about) guys at the expense of 100 others.  Not to mention all the negative attention and stories that came out following it all. 

Again, I loved Tressel.  He is a really nice guy and does a lot of great things.  I loved Ramsey's piece on what you do when people aren't looking.  He was a great mentor, coach, and man.  He Effed up royally though, and did a lot of damage when trying to protect his kids.

AltaBuck's picture

Like the Drushaun Humphrey Violation from 2001?

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2011/07/the-sound-of-silence

I'm sorry that JT violated NCAA rules but that was the right thing to do and I'm not cannonizing the man but i certainly respect him. More so than most in the media today.

Did he always make the right decision?...of course not, he is human.

And I agree with you to extent, the major reason why JT did not report Posey and Pryor's violation was it would delay their entry into the NFL and possible hurt their status, not the feds or the felons. He was protecting the future they wanted - playing in the NFL and making millions. It was a bad choice on JT's part.

I have been known on occasion to howl at the moon. - Crash Davis

TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Agreed. I really hate when people use the term "cover up" too. Non-disclosure is not a cover up. A cover-up would be deleting emails, wiping out the hard-drive and telling the lawyer who tipped him off to do the same. It would also include taking back all the memoribilia. The whole purpose of a "cover-up" is to get rid of evidence of any wrongdoing. The evidence was right there. It took them all of a few minutes to find it when they did a self-audit in January.

Ever wonder why OSU had among the most reported secondary violations in the NCAA? It was because WE WERE ACTUALLY REPORTING THEM!

ArTbkward's picture

I don't actually think Tress should/could become the AD, although it's not like Gene Smith is out there hitting home runs.  Smith's handling of everything since December has been arguably worse that Tressel's but he was insightful enough to not do something (that we know of) to get himself fired/retired.  The idea proposed in this blog post isn't any more absurd than the idea of Tressel being AD.  No way he works around the athletic department again.

Agree that hindsight is indeed 20/20.

We should strive to keep thy name, of fair repute and spotless fame...
(Also, I'm not a dude)

jfrank373's picture

Who wouldn't love Tressel as our head coach. He's probably the best coach we will ever see at this University during our lifetime (I'm mid 30's so I wasn't alive for Woody). Can you imagine where we'd be if he would have just forwarded the Cicero emails to the compliance office? Last year would have sucked but we still would of had our coach and probably no NCAA investigation. The problem is that he forwarded those emails to Pryor's mentor (who is also a shady S.O.B.) and he lied about it in December when he was flat out asked "did you have any prior knowledge" and he also knowlingly lied in September when he signed the compliance form.

Those kind of things will get you fired from any job. They already let him take a "retirement" instead of a resignation and he ultimately took the fall, but he gets just as much blame in my opinion. He was given several outs and definitely knows right from wrong, read his book. But he did the wrong thing any way to get a run at a National Championship that ultimately would have been voided anyway. Tressel was a great coach, probably the greatest of the past decade, but he chose his path and it's lead us to where we are today. Don't forget what it felt like to have all of this go down over the summer. He could have saved us from this, but he didn't. He could have blown the whistle and cut our losses and built from there. He took the gamble and came up craps. Time to move on.

Urban Meyer is easily the top candidate for this job. He can have any job in college football that he wants. Hope he listens when we give him a call in January.

RBuck's picture

I think Urban will get the call way before January...if he hasn't already.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Doug Buckles's picture

I've never had a problem with Tressel the person, I think he's a hell of a guy. It's Tressel the coach I had issues with.

run fido run- is there such a thing as a perfect model anymore? Boise State maybe but they had some dirt this offseason if memory serves me correctly. Every program has ups and downs. OSU just came out of a particularly high period but I felt it could/should have been higher. I like the fact I want OSU to be the best program in the country. They haven't been for awhile.

RBuck's picture

Congratulations Menexenus. You might just have the record for comments on a member's blog.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Menexenus's picture

Thanks RBuck.  I'm glad to see that there's a lot of interest in this issue.

I apologize in advance for the re-post, but I responded to a point in another thread and the point really belongs here (for anyone who cares about this issue).  Denny argued that re-hiring Tressel would result in a backlash from the NCAA.  This was my response.

If there's one thing I've learned about the NCAA, it is that they are willing to give just about anyone a second chance.  Tressel has provided a plausible explanation for why he was less than forth-coming in this instance.  His motivations were not nefarious.  If anyone is deserving of the kind of second chances that seem to be the NCAA's stock in trade, it is Jim Tressel.

Are you claiming that the NCAA will not permit Jim Tressel to coach college football ever again?  I think that would be unreasonably severe and certainly unwarranted by the circumstances.  If you agree that the NCAA will permit him to coach again, how can they reasonably dictate what teams he can and can't coach for?  It doesn't seem reasonable for the NCAA to say that Jim Tressel can coach again as long as it is not for the Ohio State University.  What would be the justification for such a specific ban?  Is the argument that Tressel wouild be more likely to commit future violations here than elsewhere?  That strains credibility.

In conclusion, if the NCAA isn't planning to ban Tressel for life, they also can't ban him from OSU.  If they can't ban him from OSU, why not re-hire him?  QED.
 

Real fans stay for Carmen.

crazykg's picture

I think just for the fact the Tressel wrote "The Winners Manual", used it as a tool to develop his recruits/players as men, for ten years held himself/program publicly to a higher standard than other programs used that as a tool to recruit and talked about being men holding each other accountable and etc... That he should not be hired back because he lied to the NCAA, put the entire Football Program and Athletic Department in a compromising position, and signed a document stating that he had not lied and put up the front for an entire year that he did not know. What is so hard to understand?

On another note, many of the people that I run in to who want Tress back, are the same ones that wanted him fired with an 80% + winning percentage because they hated Tresselball. They also mostly drooled over Pryor when he was a recruit/Freshmen, then wanted him hung when he couldnt produce like Peyton Manning as a passer or run like Michael Vick. I think the Tressel ship has sunk, its time to move on and get over it. Oh, and maybe support our current coach before we anoint a TV analyst.

Menexenus's picture

Yes, he signed a piece of paper (that all coaches have to sign every year) saying that he was unaware of any potential violations.  This is the same thing you do when you sign your income tax form every year.  That's what he's guilty of.

He screwed up, and he has paid for it.  And when the NCAA says he is done paying for it, he should be hired back.  And he should be hired back *because* he held himself accountable.  In my view, although he made a mistake and violated an NCAA rule, since then he has acted in a way that is consistent with the principles in his book. 

It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't think that Tressel ever said that winners never make mistakes.  On the contrary, I'm pretty sure he wrote that being a winner is about how you face adversity.  (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)  I don't see how you can argue that he hasn't taken responsibility for his actions and that he hasn't done everything in his power (both before and after his mistake) to protect his players and the program.

Once the NCAA says that he is eligible to coach again, do you really want him coaching for a different team?  Do you want to play against him?  Think about that.

P.S.  I agree with you about supporting our current coach before annointing a TV analyst.  I think if he wins tonight against Wisconsin, all the talk about Urban will start to subside.  GO BUCKS!

Real fans stay for Carmen.

frozen buckeye's picture

In my fantastic dreamworld, tOSU salutes the ncaa with both fingers, rehires Tressel, and leaves the ncaa.  Wouldn't it be nice......

WMBuckeye's picture

+1,000!

Proud to be a Buckeye in SEC territory...Long Live the Vest!!
Class of 2003 OSU/ATI "Where the men are men, women are few and the sheep are scared.."

spqr2008's picture

Either that, or we find get all the OSU students we can, and #OCCUPYTHENCAA

frozen buckeye's picture

I'd count quite a few alumni in on that occupy brand!

 

Run_Fido_Run's picture

I'm down with that, as long as we can get the Occupy Wall Street (NYC) caterers to make the meals for us - free-range chickens and cous-cous!