Why I Want Michigan to Get a Top 3 Recruiting Class

lljjgg's picture
April 15, 2013 at 3:34p

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."
Proverbs 27:17

There is some dissension among OSU fans regarding whether being a "true OSU fan" means that we should root for UM to lose in every situation: lose every game environment, lose every recruiting battle, lose every bit of media exposure -- or whether being a "true OSU fan" allows for wanting a great UM team, who performs at an elite level, recruits at an elite level, and wins at an elite level, with the exception of the last game in November against OSU. 

I tend to be in the second camp, especially these days. OSU's strength of schedule relies on a competent, even elite UM team. Winning a #1 vs #2 OSU-UM game secures a trip to the National Title game in a way that a #2 OSU beating an unranked Michigan game can't necessarily. I also root for an elite Michigan team because I honestly loved the entertainment value of games like the 2006 "Game of the Century" that pitted an heroic #1 OSU team against an excellent #2 Michigan team. What's more, that victory satisfied me much more than the 14-3 or 42-7 OSU wins the following two years. I want a GREAT Michigan team, because beating an historically great Michigan team means an historically greatER OSU team. Beating an historically great Michigan team often means a Nat'l Title trip. Beating an historically great Michigan teams mean our OSU team is prepared to beat an historically great SEC team. 

While getting a Top 3 recruiting class doesn't secure an elite Michigan team in the future, player development is significant, it does push them in that direction -- in the same way that landing the consensus #2 recruiting class last year pushes OSU in that direction.

Where do you stand on this? OSU or Michigan fans alike are welcome to chime in. Does a great Michigan team help OSU? 

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ATXbucknut's picture

Obviously beating a "great" M!chigan team is better for OSU's ranking and prestige than beating an average TTUN team.
My disdain for TTUN is more nuanced, as I suspect is the case for many Buckeye fans. I usually root for other B1G teams when they play TTUN, but I generally pull for TTUN when they play good teams from other big-time conferences (SEC schools, ND, etc.)
Maybe we're both sacrilegious.  But an undefeated OOC sked for TTUN pays dividends for OSU's ranking and prestige when we beat them.
I would rather that a team like Purdue take TTUN's place as the second elite team in the conference, but it really doesn't look like any team other then TTUN can feasibly compete for NCs.

Borrowed Time's picture

I'm fine with TTUN getting a top 3 ranked recruiting class, as long as OSU also gets a top 3 recruiting class.

I_Run_The_Dave's picture

I would tend to agree with you in most cases.

1. As long as TTUN does not play us again in the conference championship. They should lose just enough conference games to prevent this.
2. Whenever TTUN plays an ooc opponent they should win, as should every other B1G team (other than state penn).
2a. Unless playing for a national championship. TTUN should never win the MNC for any reason.

However, Woody Hayes, I think, would rather TTUN go 0 and 12 every season. SOS be damned.

jmw's picture

As long as our coaching is better, I'm ok with TTUN's Top 3 or 5 or 10 recruiting class. 
I lived, painfully I might add, through the Cooper years where IMO OSU had the more talented teams yet lost practically every year because they got out-coached.  That was frustrating as heck...knowing your guys on the field were better yet the results did not reflect it.
As for 'does a great michigan team help OSU'? An unbiased person would say yes. Knowing my 'dislike' for the TTUN, I will take the Al Davis approach and 'abstain' from answering.


OSU2002Grad's picture

I would honestly prefer to beat Michigan 20 times in a row over the next 20 years. And I really would prefer they suck donkey scrotum each and every year.
But I can still see the benefits to them having a great recruiting class.

Joe4's picture

I totally agree.  I found the RichRod era to be an unmitigated blessing, strength of schedule notwithstanding. 
I also tend to think, with the recruiting classes we are getting and Urban's credibility, that we'll make national championship games/four-team playoffs if we go undefeated, regardless of how good or crappy Michigan is.  Although I suppose that beating a very good Michigan team could help us overcome one loss. 

buckeyedude's picture

Donkey scrotum? You're friggin nuts, dude.
If anything, they can suck Elepahant ballz. Or rhinoceros titty.



NoVA Buckeye's picture

How dare we insult donkeys, elephants, and rhinoceroses.

The offseason begins when your season ends. Even then there are no days off.

Menexenus's picture

I wish nothing but FAIL to the Cobalt and Sun in every single endeavor.  I would thoroughly enjoy seeing them lose to Appalachian State every year. 

Real fans stay for Carmen.

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

As long as it's another decade of dominance for Ohio State like Tressel provided, I don't care.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

tennbuckeye19's picture

I realize that a stronger Big Ten is a better Big Ten, and a stronger Big Ten is better for OSU. But, if I'm being honest, it doesn't bother me one bit if Michigan is a horrible, ugly mess that loses every single game. 

rightfield's picture

Each and every *ichigan loss is as sweet as a honeycomb, and more the better.

Its good to be the king

OSUinFl's picture

Michigan  will Be okay not great. Hoke not a great coach just average.
      Hoke still loves to shut down Bd's Mongolian Grill  in Ann Arbor.

NoVA Buckeye's picture

Who doesn't? I love BD's!

The offseason begins when your season ends. Even then there are no days off.

Poison nuts's picture

In my time here at 11W, there is almost no subject I have seen that divides members more than this one. Some of the forums on this same subject have gotten downright ugly. My stance: I am all for OSU beating a strong UM. I do not root for them, I do not get upset when they lose...but I like the feel of The Game more when both teams are strong. It makes the win all the sweeter. I've had other members (that I otherwise got along with) tell me I'm not a real fan for this & that being an OSU fan means rooting for tsun to fail in all endeavors...But for me, I prefer both teams actually have something riding on the outcome. It's a special rivalry. It got to be that way because they both are historical powerhouses. I was introduced to OSU football in the 70s. The 10 year war was in full effect & it was a good time. The 2006 game (1 vs 2) was the most satisfying win against that team I've ever seen. I also happen to believe it does OSU no good if the B1G is seen as a weak conference...Then again, like I said, I've never once gotten angry because UM lost a game before The Game either & got quite a chuckle from Appy St...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

southernstatesbuckeye's picture

Poison, you sound like you grew up in the 70's near Westerville, Ohio...ever heard of a Renee' Mosely and her friend, Diane Van Hoose (not from westerville)?  Around 1975.  Renee lived near the Hoover Dam, on that road that runs beside it, in westerville.  Just curious...

I like cookies.

Poison nuts's picture

I was just a pretty young kid back then...BUT, actually, those names ring a bell for some reason...not sure why, & I can't place them to faces, but do ring a bell...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

JYBUCKEYE's picture

Agreed. I do not root for TTUN or mind it much if they lose a game they are supposed to win. I do not think the RichRod era was good for the rivalry. I was in Columbus for the 2006 game (did not attend game) and it was electric. Two years later my lovely wife purchased me tickets for The Game. We all know how that turned out. Everybody in the stadium knew OSU was gonna win that game. While I would love stomping a mud hole in TTUN's ass for the next 10 years, the game has to mean something!
+1 poison (5 more helmet stickers and I can give an upvote for real) 
Boooyah over 100. Enjoy my first upvote Poison haha. 

Poison nuts's picture

Thank you.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

buckeyedude's picture

& got quite a chuckle from Appy St...

and Toledo? My son was at that game, cheering for the Rockets in spite of physical threats of abuse.



FitzBuck's picture

Absolutely.  When OSU played in the 1 vs 2 game it was one of the most insane games I've seen on TV.  The build up, the tension, national media attention, every bit of that game was insane.  As electric as that was playing that dumpster fire team Rich Rod put together took all interest off "the game" outside of the respective fan bases.  It was one of the few times I wasn't even nervous about the outcome.  I can't believe I'm writing this but when they are down it does suck.
 I'd rather hit them in the month when they are standing toe to toe then kick them when their down......ok then add a curb stomp.

Fitzbuck | Toledo - Ohio's right armpit | "A troll by any other name is still a troll".

buckguyfan1's picture

Top 3 Class or not, Meatchicken still.....

Embrace the hate!!!!!

buckeyedude's picture

Two words, LLJJGG:



pjtobin's picture

I followed the bucks since 95/96. So I can't say I was around for the woody or Bruce years. I was told by my father that it didn't matter if we were 0-11 as long as we won that last game. I know that he would have been pissed if we ever lost more than one game. Yet losing to scum took him to a much higher level of mad. It was instilled in my brain that a three loss scum team was not to ever be taken lightly when we play them. So I guess as long as we don't lose to them their record doesn't matter to me. That is my opinion. 

Bury me in my away jersey, with my buckeye blanket. A diehard who died young. Rip dad. 

Poison nuts's picture

A 3 loss OSU team or a 3 loss UM team should never be taken lightly in that last game, that's for sure! The latter was proven time & time again during the Cooper years...Damnit!

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

OSU_ALUM_05's picture

I do think The Game is more compelling when TTUN is good, but I don't know if I get too caught up in the SOS argument. No one was hating on USC when they were beating down a bad PAC10. Why? Because they blew the doors off the teams they played more often than not. If we do the same, the national respect comes back, regardless of TTUN.

Yeti's have feelings too.

HighBallAce's picture

If Ohio State can't play for a chance at a national championship or a high rank, I would much rather have a mediocre Ohio State beat the team up north and ruin their chances at playing for a national championship! Too many times has that team up north spoiled Ohio State's chance to go to the national championship! I'd love to see some payback in that regard!

biggy84's picture

100 years of hate won't lessen if tsun sucks. The rivalry will isn't conditional on tsun being good or not.  I have been around plenty of other rivalries, and have never heard them wish their rival was strong. NEVER!

buckskin's picture

One can be a "true" OSU fan and be in either camp.  My stance is I don't care if Michigan's recruiting class ranks #3 or #103, I just want to beat their asses every year (thank you Tressel).  A win over Michigan is a win over Michigan.  With that being said, it is does give me more satisfaction when we beat them in '06 when they were really good, then say during the RichRod years, where victory was almost a forgone conclusion.  The only thing I "want" is a victory.
It seems like every year after we beat them, at first I want them to do good in their bowl game so we look better.  But as the game gets closer and closer, I find myself wanting them to lose and lose badly.  The same thing happened with Alabama this past year, I found great joy in that game.  And while I don't care for South Carolina, I must say thank you Mr. Clowney.

Hovenaut's picture

If they suck they suck.

100 years ago, the Ohio State football program was slowly rising from the depths of a second rate club sport into a more competitive level.

We dropped the first fifteen (two ties) games of the rivalry to them, beginning in 1897, as scUM was likely the elite program in the nation back then.

I doubt no one at the time thought much of the rivalry or Ohio State being up to par to make it a better rivalry.

Yet my run-ins with scUM faithful often seem to broach the fact they have a series advantage, and they have it due to our lean early years. They don't care why they have it, they just know they do...and they hold the edge up high.

Because of that, I will never wish for scUM to be good for the sake of the rivalry. That's my long, thought-out reply.

The quick version runs along the lines of f... 'em.

Poison nuts's picture

That's the best reasoning I've heard for not caring if they are good or not...they do love their series lead don't they? God it can be stomach turning. Still, let me ask you this: If something crazy happened & UM disappeared tomorrow, would it bother you? The fans would be gone, the school, the team, just gone...no explanation, would you miss them? Would you miss the playing of The Game? Just curious & this is not meant to be argumentative, but I wonder if people would mind if they just no longer were a thing...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

Hovenaut's picture

Yes, I'd miss...(gawd) them. It's The Rivalry, bar none.

But football would go on, plenty of Wiskys, PSUs and Spartys out there.

And Terrapins - Maryland resident now. Fear the Turtle ('s mediocrity).

Hello_Heisman's picture

Poison, no disrespect but if OSU held the series lead, most Buckeye fans would point to that as a reason why they're superior to Michigan.  As fans, we make whatever arguments we can in support of our teams.  It's why OSU fans right now talk about 8-2 and dominance in the rivalry, but omit what happened for the 15 years prior to this current run.  It's why Michigan fans argue that 2008-2010 were irrelevant because of RichRod, but celebrate the 2011 win over Fickell and crew like it was the Super Bowl. 
My point is that in a rivalry like this, there are arguments both sides can make because of the many high and low points each team has experienced along the way.  To me, the most relevant stat of all is the head to head record since 1969:  21-21-2.  Over the long term, this a rivalry that's as even as even can be in the modern era of college football.  And I firmly believe that regardless of how many NCs Meyer wins or doesn't win at OSU, we will see a similar record of parity over the next decade of this rivalry.  

60% of the time it works.....every time

Poison nuts's picture

Hello, Hello Heisman. I agree 100% about your thoughts on fans observations. It's in our nature to take any positives that exist & use them as bragging points. Doesn't make my stomach any less sick when I hear about the overall record from UM fans, just as you surely know what's happened to your guys over the past 10 years. The fact that the overall record is the UM mantra is not necessarily a bad thing though..I'm sure it is motivation for OSU & will continue to be until it changes & one thing I believe wholeheartedly - It will change! 
BTW I'm sure you started in 1969, as the "modern era" because that's when Bo arrived, but from here on, I'd prefer you started with 68. Thanks in advance -

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

Hello_Heisman's picture

1968?  Never heard of it.  Did Michigan and OSU play that year or something?

60% of the time it works.....every time

buckeyedude's picture

my run-ins with scUM faithful often seem to broach the fact they have a series advantage, and they have it due to our lean early years.

The Walmart Wolverine fans I work with always bring this up, and I always respond with the same argument. They padded those numbers from the leather helmet era. Back before there were planes and automobiles and people were still using horses as their main form of transportation.
Yes, it still counts, technically. But eventually OSU is going to even and take the lead in the series(my prediction). Then what argument will they have?
Glad I'm a Buckeye.
And Poison: I love the rivalry. Glad they're their. Best rivalry in ALL OF SPORTS. It would suck if OSU didn't have them to beat up on. PSU or MSU just wouldn't be close as far as a hated rival. Although PSU fans and their arrogance and entitlement comes close to the TTUN fandom, and would be easy to hate.



canzior's picture

As an M fan, I want Ohio to lose every game...but I do understand the strength of the league and all of that.  Regardless of the random Sparty or Wisconsin winning seasons, there are only a couple schools that affect the perception of the league.  I'm not a big fan of the same divisions, but I would love to have an 11-0 vs 11-0 game every year.  2006 was probably the most nationally hyped game ever between the two schools, and it does a world of good for the league.  If both schools are winning, then the winner of The Game is even more respected.

Poison nuts's picture

I hear you! I personally don't want Ohio to lose all their games, as I really like the MAC. They've been a stable mid-western conference for years, with many of the schools being in Ohio. Of course, when Ohio plays OSU, I want them to lose. I'd hate for the day that a MAC team beats OSU, which would undoubtedly be at The Shoe, since Ohio State will typically not go to play at a MAC stadium...not enough revenue in that I guess...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

JYBUCKEYE's picture

Ohio would be the team that beat you in March of 2012.  Ohio State would be the team that beat you in November of 2012.  

captain obvious's picture

Dont give a damn about the whole state of Michigan......................................

I'm a friend of thunder is it any wonder lightning strikes me

hail2victors9's picture

Going forward, this could change due to the playoff system, but SOS is overemphasized, IMO.  Take 2006 vs 2007.  In '06, OSU beat 11-0 Michigan and ended up in the NCG.  In 2007, 10-1 OSU beat 8-3 Michigan, and still ended up playing for the title.  Every B1G team had at least 3 regular season and 4 total losses except for OSU.  That's not a very good SOS according to the numbers.  Obviously, Michigan and Illinois (Maybe Wisconsin) had pretty decent teams.

The point is, if a team from the B1G goes undefeated, they will always have a spot in a 4-team playoff, regardless of how weak the conference is.  If you lose one, there's a chance you're going to need some help around the country, anyway.
With that said, I have no desire to see OSU go undefeated up until The Game.  Sure it's sweet when you can effectively eliminate conference and national title hopes all in one swoop, but I'm in the other camp.  I hope OSU is a preseason Top 5 team every year only to get upset 3 or 4 times throughout the season.  Every Saturday in the fall, I watch Michigan's game and OSU's game.  I don't root for OSU to win, ever, unless it directly helps Michigan win its division.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!

~Bo Schembechler

Toilrt Paper's picture

Only Michigan needs Michigan to be good. Ohio State does not need Michigan to be good, that's an insult.

Ronrico86's picture

At this point of time osu needs MICHIGAN to be good just as MICHIGAN needs osu to be good because of the SEC bias.   I am seeing a repeat of 2006 with MICHIGAN and osu both going into the game with 0 losses.  But unfortunately, they will play again the following week for the B1G title.  As for rooting for osu, I do in bowl games and will more often now that 1 of my kids I coached in little league committed to you for 2014.  

lljjgg's picture

Who is that? (If you don't mind my asking!) 

11thAveBuckeye's picture

He is a scUM fan based off of all those capital letters and him saying "you guys" when addressing us... I would wager he coached Damon Webb since he is our TSUN recruit.

FROMTHE18's picture

Michigan had the top class in the country last year for quite some time then got chucked out of the way by the time NSD finished with OSU ahead of them (believe we also had the top class according to Scout)...although this class will presumably have Peppers and Hand in it, they may end up not having a top 3 class.

Hello_Heisman's picture

Two things:
1.  Doubtful that Michigan gets both Hand and Peppers.  We'll be lucky to get 1 of those guys at most, and it's entirely possible we end up with neither.
2.  If Michigan somehow does secure both guys, I find it hard to believe that won't end up as a Top 3 class.

60% of the time it works.....every time

Bassplayer132's picture

To me it's not as much about Michigan having a top 3, 5, 10 class as it is about the B1G improving in the recruiting world as a whole. I think on of the reasons that the perception of the conference is down right now, besides losses in big games, is that schools like MSU, Illinois, Nebraska and Wisky are losing out on top recruits to top SEC schools. Ohio State and Michigan are having no problems landing a good number of top recruits but the other schools are having a much more difficult time landing those 4* and 5* players. After that, schools like Indiana and Minnesota aren't doing well picking up top 4* players losing out to SEC schools like Kentucky, typically lower powers in the SEC. I think a stronger presence in recruiting by the B1G as a whole goes a long way to getting the conference back as an elite contender every year.

cajunbuckeye's picture

Iron may sharpen iron, but you'll never sharpen scUM. By definition: a layer of impurity that accumulates at the surface of a liquid. The only thing we can hope for is that the Buckeyes can get their cleats clean after they stomp in it.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

HighBallAce's picture

When I lived in Texas, I had to listen to UT fans talk about their supposed dominance of Ohio State. Nevermind the fact that if Rory Nichol had caught that pass in the end zone, UT wouldn't have been in that National Championship! Or the fact that if Ohio State would have simply ran out the clock in the Fiesta Bowl and then ran it in, UT wouldn't have won that game either! I once made the statement that Ohio State had more National Championships than UT and they said that most of Ohio State's championships were during the era when they didn't really matter! That when they won them, there were other teams that were undefeated and that the polls didn't work the same. If you can tell, I hate the UT-tea sips as much as I hate the team up north!