We have heard this before: "We need to get better"

Bucks777's picture
January 4, 2014 at 10:00a
58 Comments

I went to the game last night and sat very close to the field of play, I have played college level sports, and I will be the first to tell you, we are average at best.

The Clemson Defense was flying all over the field as if they knew where to be before they got there, conversely the OSU defense played scared and timid all night.

I tried to think why they were looking like deer in the headlights.  Seems they were doing more thinking during the playing, than reacting and pursuing.  It seemed as if

no one wanted to be the first one to put a helmet on a guy, seemed very very timid.

       I watched Clemson defense and it was disruptive, callous and down right nasty. They were always in the correct positions on the field, they were hungrier and much quicker to getting to the

ball.  I sat there as a buckeye of 47 years and wondered how did we get to this place of irrational defense play?  How did we get to a place of mediocrity?

Oh and the people I was sitting around were very affluent Clemson and Buckeye fans; and they all agreed. We seemed to play scared and very timid on defense, where as Clemson was constantly attacking,

and throwing themselves in harms way...

       This is not about "We need to get better"  This is about returning to who The Ohio State is defensively! Taking pride in our heritage.

The way I see it this defense had 3 weeks to get ready for Watkins and they get and "F" for game plan, and for "F" for execution defensively.

There are no more excuses to be made or quotes of  "We need to get better", only that heads need to roll... yesterday. This defensive plan, scheme, and coaching is an "F"

I have been a Urban fan since prior to Florida, but right now, I an missing the Tressel defensive teams.

  

***      I believe we need DRASTIC changes on defense!!!

 

** Bosa, Bell, Powell ,& Marcus all played great and were attacking all night!

* Coombs needs to go now; and possibly others immediately.

* Braxton is not a throwing QB, has much improving to do.

* Guiton could have done better, in my opinion.

* I wrote this while I am still under the anger of our loss, so please forgive me for venting.

Comments

Jonnferrell's picture

There's no crying in football.  Our defense had injuries and was missing some key personnel.  The defense gave the offense enough chances to win the game.  We fell a little short.  It's not an "F" It is an "L."  We lost a hard fought game and it came down to mostly a beat up quarterback and a couple turnovers.  That's the way close games go.  It could just as easily have been us with that stupid glass bowl full of oranges.  It's not the end of the world.  We're not TTUN.  Stop whining and grow some balls.  

"I'm still hungry." --Brady Hoke

Bucks777's picture

Well i f you are happy and content with losing both games to ranked teams (MSU, & Clemson), and feel that we are in a comfortable place, keep drinking your cool aid.

Jonnferrell's picture

No one is happy with that.  An "F" grade is not realistic and not helpful.  

"I'm still hungry." --Brady Hoke

kmp10's picture

Neither is telling someone who is venting/expressing his opinion on a forum that exists specifically for fans to do such things to "stop whining and grow some balls." Everyone has a right to an opinion... even those who disagree with you. 
The defense is bad. Is it coaching? It seems so to me. It doesn't appear to be lack of effort, rather it's players looking lost out there. Unless the talent evaluators on this staff have consistently missed on 4 and 5 star kids it can't be player skill either. There are only so many components that go into this thing; players/coaching/scheme. What else is there? If the top talent is coming to Columbus then coaching is the culprit. Whether it's player development or X'ing and O'ing, something isn't working...

Jonnferrell's picture

Well it's still not an "F" and you don't have to agree with me either.   I'm not saying they are perfect.  But the defense did not lose this game.  The defense did not have four turnovers.  That's what else there is.  That doesn't work.  All this whining about the defense in 25 posts without considering the rest is missing the reason why this game was lost.

"I'm still hungry." --Brady Hoke

Actorjonnyb's picture

John, come on man - you are WAY off base. Yeah, we had a few starters out but what is the difference? Those starters were in for the Cal game right? Did it matter? Even Buffalo came within a penalty of a tie in the 4th qtr . 
The offense was ok, Guiton should have been in there but this defense gave up RECORD yards last night.

buckeyeinla

bcarp87's picture

Didn't you just say "no crying in football"? Aren't you crying because he said it was an F effort?

bcarp87's picture

So you are saying if an offense does not score 41 points it's their fault if they lose? Turnovers do not factor into who wins or loses, points do. How can you blame an offense that averaged over 40 for the two times all season they can't bail the defense out? When did the defense win a game? We saw last night - when great teams need it their defense is able to step up. Both Auburn and FSU stepped up and got stops when they needed to.
The bottom line is we have a ton of talent on this team and they have not performed or mad adjustments. The same things killed us against Clemson that killed us against Cal.
I am not saying we need to fire the whole staff but I am sick of people trying to said the defense wasn't that bad! Or they come up with a bunch of excuses. Every team has injuries! Every team has some young players, they should get better throughout the year. This defense started our mediocre and finished mediocre. I do not know what the solution is but something has to change - I do not know of any acceptable reason why we finished the season the way we did. Not lack of talent, not injuries, obviously not quality of offenses.

Bucks777's picture

Fact is Clemson does not have better talent defensively, than we have, they are just simply, coached better!

Bucks777's picture

I have played football, you don't play 10 yards off Sammy Watkins all night long, and make no effort to make adjustments'.... just horrible!

buckeyedude's picture

you don't play 10 yards off Sammy Watkins all night long, and make no effort to make adjustments'

Bingo. Hammer, meet nail. Although Reeves and Smith had some good moments, they were lined up 8 to 10 yards off the LOS and gave Sammy Watkins plenty of airspace. All Clemson had to do was throw a screen to Watkins and it's a guaranteed AT LEAST 8 yards on 1st down. Probably more. There is no effing excuse for that. Go back and rewatch the game.
That is ALL ON THE COACHES. I just don't get the very passive approach to this defense and the coaching staff on D. I absolutely fricking hate this "bend, don't break" mentality to defensive play calling.

 

 

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

And if they lined up tight on the line of scrimmage, all Clemson's bigger, stronger, and faster WRs had to do was get off the line against our smaller, less experienced DBs and run straight down the field to receive a TD pass of ANY distance.

Read my entire screen name....

Bucks777's picture

Boston College and North Carolina played better defense than we did against the same Clemson team.

southbay's picture

I hate to say it, but so did lowly NC State.

DudeNick4's picture

I gotta agree. Clemson was better coached defensively. But that shouldn't come as a surprise. Venebles is one of the top DC in the country. The Fickell experiment is over, there will be a new DC for the start of spring football, if not. Yikes.  I like Fick as a position coach, even though the linebackers played poorly last night. He's clearly not a defensive coordinator. I remain very optimistic because the young talent coming in and on campus seem to be a bright spot for the future. 

Jonnferrell's picture

The defense has been up and down all year, but they played well enough that we should have won.  That's not an "F."  The offense and their coaches are equally responsible for this loss.  

"I'm still hungry." --Brady Hoke

countrybuckeye's picture

Respectfully, I have to disagree.
Expectations set most recently during the Tressel Era need to be met.  The "Silver Bullets" need to return.  Now, couple that with "The Urban Way" and you would have that "Buckeye Rebirth."
 
Jus' sayin' .....

"Momma told me there would be days like this."

Actorjonnyb's picture

Actually I agree with you about the D but John is right- The D gave us two chances at the end to win it in good field position and we balked. The most slighted and screwed over 5th year senior in history should have been in there. Everyone knew Brax was done after the big hit.

buckeyeinla

saltybuck61's picture

Definitely agree with you here. The defense wasn't great, but it was good enough. Considering the majority of the defensive players were second stringers, they played the way they should have. The offense needed to step up, and they did not. I thought Miller played well, but he was not in good enough shape to play towards the end. He showed tremendous durability, but why not give Kenny G a try when Miller is injured? He has proven that he can play the position well enough. 

ScoobyKnows's picture

I hear what you are saying.  The offense was given chances BUT it is hard for me not to put this loss entirely on the defense.  I mean almost 600 yards given up is just a hard pill to swallow.  Not to mention the previous other 279 times that the OSU offense has scored 35 points...it has been a win. 
 

st pete bch buckeye's picture

Oh ya clemson d was so nasty they held us to 35 points get out of here with that shit.  Ohio state what 10000000-0 when scoring 35 and more and lost because our d plays too far off the other teams wideouts its that simple.  

countrybuckeye's picture

Yep.  The product on the field was, I believe someone else termed it, "The Silver BBs."

"Momma told me there would be days like this."

Bucks777's picture

My point exactly, their defense was torched by FSU and have made strides to get better since that game, and Clemson has gotten much better defensively than the FSU game.
We on the other hand have not made any progress in becoming better on the defensive side of the ball.

Bucks777's picture

It's defense , and that is final, look at the points this Defense has given up all season to "C" average QB's and receivers.  As I watched the game last night I was tuned into the DB's and they had their hands in the air (palms up) looking at the sideline, as what are we calling, where do you want me to line up...I saw it and others who were seated in my section saw it all night. Even the Clemson fans said what is wrong with your players they are looking at the sidelines with what do you want on this play look and some of them just frustrated just lined up anywhere...I never saw this once from the Clemson defense they were much better prepared and it showed!

countrybuckeye's picture

@BUCKS777 --- Say it loud, and say it proud.  Your eyewitness testimony needs to reverberate in the Woody Hayes Complex next week.
 
Are you able to join their fim study? Bet you wish you could, eh?

"Momma told me there would be days like this."

Bucks777's picture

I would be like my father before me (GOD rest his soul);, Woody Hayes style hold no punches attitude; I would say what is true and needs to be said, not some cool aid PC correct B.S.; if it hurts peoples' feelings, hopefully they will grow some man balls and get to it and make the improvements' necessary; even if it means letting a  close friend go, who is not coaching well, and is not a good fit for the future of the team!

CPDenn's picture

I almost burned my hand on how hot this take was.
Do you honestly believe there wasn't, or isn't, going to be some serious tension in that coaches meeting room when they talk about what happened at the end of the season if they haven't already? Or what the problems have been defensively the last two seasons? If you think you're upset about it, how do you imagine the coaches whose jobs are on the line feel about it?

Bucks777's picture

It is easy for us to make assumptions that the Coach's are even as mad or exasperated as we the fans.  I mean they fully believed prior to MSU that they had gotten things fixed. Obvious to everyone.....NOT!!!!  I personally believe that Meyer an Offensive minded coach, wants to believe and trust in Fickell more than he probably should.   Relationships are formed, friendships are created even between family members, much harder to see clearly when you have done this.   I know I have been in that position.  So I don't believe that they will be at each other's throat's and pointing fingers, they will say we need to do this or that, and that is the problem.  It is not working.
Things need to change from a Defensive Philosophy and schematic approach.  We need to go to a man to man, with over the top coverage's on specific players and disguise our Blitz packags much much better and speaking of blitz packages where were they all night long????
 
I mean come on Man...MSU would have been blitzing off the edge with CB and safeties from the first snap of the game to throw boyd off his rocker,.,, what did we do...?????  Once again a coaching from a scared and don't get burned mentality is holding this defense back and is looking horrible in the process!!!!

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

We blitzed exactly as you say on Clemson's first possession, 3 and 8.  Boyd picked it up, hit the outlet for 15 yards.  

Read my entire screen name....

Jonnferrell's picture

I didn't say the defense didn't need to improve.  I didn't say that the defense was great all year.  I did say that they didn't deserve an "F" grade for their effort last night.  They played well enough that the offense had more than enough chances to win that game.  The offense should have won that game.  The offense did not win that game.  What grade do they get?

"I'm still hungry." --Brady Hoke

buckeyedude's picture

I see what you're saying Jonnferrell, and I agree. I think Bucks777 is just frustrated with the offensive defensive play fromt the Buckeyes defense all season long.
I think the grade for the OSU defense over the course of the year should be somewhere between a C- to a D.  There were signs of greatness at times. Especially on the D-line. But you can't say that the OSU D secondary lacked talent. Most of those players are 4 and 5*s out of high school. I think Coombs should go back to Colerain or Princeton or whatever high school he came from. Sorry but Gerry Faust destroyed Notre Dame's program for a decade(at least) when they hired him out of Moeller.
Coombs is more in over his head than Brady Flounder in A2.
 

 

 

Jonnferrell's picture

I am just trying to keep the discussion going--that's what these things are for.  I was talking primarily about the game last night and not over the course of the year.  Something happened with our pass defense in the transition and whether it was Withers or Coombs or whoever, I bet something happens to get it straight.  With the players injured or otherwise not playing in the Orange Bowl I thought they did reasonably well--well enough that the offense should have been able to pull out the win.  

"I'm still hungry." --Brady Hoke

Madaris32's picture

I just couldn't understand why we kept playing 8 yards off the LOS. Clemson kept throwing the same quick screen pass, and as usual, the defense just simply doesn't adjust. Just don't get it. I would love to hear from some of our pass players on defense and offense to critique the defensive scheme.

Ivan Madaris

Bucks777's picture

You simply do not allow the best player on their team to consistently catch balls with no one in front of him for 8 yards or more, he is able to collectively hit top speed and hit holes faster, making him much more dangerous than he ever needed to be.  Like throwing gas on a fire!
The mindset of the D coordinators is as follows:
1) we don't want to give up the big play; so we will give them the short stuff and keep everything in front of us.
Result: 8-15 yards per play for their top play maker ...oh and some long plays for TD's that we were not suppose to give up in this style of defense...hmmmm
 
Simply horrible philosophy and horrible results.  Every week we hear the same tune, we have to get better... at what point do we say, we have to get better as a team is not working?

st pete bch buckeye's picture

Lets go mens basketball....that said help is on the way urban will have his second full class next year.

Bucks777's picture

I do look forward to next year, only if their is a different mindset and philosophy on defense in place.  If not it will be a long and not fun season to watch.
Our youth coming in has great talent; and what makes me terrified is that they will learn under this system of mindless game blowing defensive coordinators.

buckeyedude's picture

I agree with almost everything you've posted Bucks777. It's as if you are in my head. I'm just going to quit posting and I'll keep throwing you the UVs. Spot on.

 

 

Bucks777's picture

Thanks, jsut so tired of seeing the same style and play of the defense get brushed aside by Meyer when he is asked about it. He always gives the same answer " I am not blaming anyone; we need to get better as a team" 
Sometimes that means getting rid of friends/coaches that are not working out. I agree 1000% that Combs is in way over his collective head.  He is a Brady Hoke; a cheerleader of a man, that is it in a nutshell.  Player development F, player positional awareness F, Player tackling F, block shedding F;  need I go on, the DB's just look completely lost and lack any confidence whatsoever! 

Bucks777's picture

Bottom line, after 2 years of this style of defense and a defense that is lacking any identity. Meyer has to make changes or he will start receiving blame for keeping the staff that is creating the problems.  To not address the coaching problems; is to become the problem.

teddyballgame's picture

exactly, inaction is still an action

southbay's picture

The contrast between the two defenses was striking, and that is a good point.  Theirs attacking and aggressive, ours timid at times.  
Clemson's D had not forgotten the debacle in the Orange Bowl two years ago, and were highly motivated to prevent that from happening again.  They had their share of lapses but they were playing with an attitude.  Pretty much as I had expected.

saltybuck61's picture

I would not say this team is average. That would infer that this team is approximately the 62nd best team in the country. This is nowhere near true. This is a solid football team with some weaknesses. The young and battered defense struggled all year. The offense was one of the best in the country. 
This is a good team, if not a great team. In a head to head matchup, I would take this year's team over last year's team. The improvement in the team is a good sign, despite the defense's woes. I am optimistic for next year"s team. If the defense struggles next year, then it will be time for a change. The offense has gotten better. Now, the defense has to get better.

Actorjonnyb's picture

NO! The change needs to happen NOW. We have waited too long to begin with. I want a top notch NFL type coordinator handling Raekwon and Lattimore. good skills need to be taught right away.
 

buckeyeinla

saltybuck61's picture

I do too, but I am not sold on it being Fickell's fault. With the dreadful safety play and the useless coverages I have always assumed Withers was the guy to blame. I want to see the results with him gone. If the defense becomes excellent by next year, there will be no reason to get rid of anyone else.

Bucks777's picture

Exactly !  If we keep the current Defensive cooridnators , are we to believe they change their way of coaching and schemes overnight...no and no!
They will try some different wiggles and so forth but ultimately we are looking at the same bend don't break defense next year and we will get torched in the passing game!
New Top Notch proven D Coordinator pay him the money and get these kids and these fans what they deserve a #1 ranked Defense in passing and rushing, we definitely have the talented players!

New Orleans's picture

I hope all you experts get your resumes to Urban right away. Better yet, send them straight to Gene Smith, because he apparently needs to clean house with the entire football program. I mean, two losses in two years? What a shameful record of incompetence. Hard to believe anybody would take pride in that.

Bucks777's picture

I really don't think anyone here is saying they are trying to put in their resume for head coaching job. However, this post is meant for the freedom of expression and the freedom to vent feelings and diverse ideas.
Many people on this post have played college football or a college sport and can recognize specifics within the game that are no brainer's.
It is a no brainer when you keep doing the same types of defensive play calling and expect a different result, that is not fictional that is a FACT!
Most of the people on here on making very valid points and I am sure the coaching staff is aware of the problems.  I do believe this is healthy football conversation and people who can't handle that probably have not played the game before.
 
Just sayin...
edit: the 2 losses came against the 2 ranked teams that we should have beaten; and now that we have not; our program is looked at as that much more of an exaggerated/ over rated entity.

Toilrt Paper's picture

One HUGE issue cost the game. Philly Brown, a Senior forgot there is no I in team. Or is he stupid and could not see it was a 35 yard punt with A LOT of hang time. Call for a fair catch, instead of wanting to be a hero and return an impossible punt for a TD. A fair catch is all Ohio State needed and Brown was incapable. You can't fix stupid.
More stupidity. Not coaches, Corner Backs. The 3rd game in a row where CB's showed Junior High coverage technique. Same old, same old. They have their hands all over the receivers, they never turn around and look for the ball when the receivers look for the ball. Give up TD's or get pass interference calls. Some sound as stupid as they look, blaming coaches for cornerback play that has been taught to them for 8 years and they are still incapable.

CPDenn's picture

Sweet take, bro. Glad you're a fan of the Buckeyes.

CentralFloridaBuckeye's picture

We need the DBs to hit the weightroom hard and become badasses.  They need to be able to play press coverage and have the physical presence to be able to dominate WRs.  We don't have that right now.  Many times these guys are having a hard time tackling or breaking through the blocks.  Clemson set the bubble screen so many times and our DBs had a really hard time getting through the WR blocks.  Hopefully they will step it up in the offseason! I think that they will.
Go Bucks!!

Bucks777's picture

I agree 100% just not physical enough defensively and I saw the same thing with our DB and LB for that matter not being able to shed blocks and not physical enough on the perimeter that is for sure.  Clemson and Michigan, and MSU do their homework and attacked our weakness.
Definitely got manhandled WR versus our DB not even close/  Have to hit the weight room yesterday and work on upper body strength and leg strength.  I watched as they seemed to get physically man handled on every WR screen. We simply have to shed blocks and make better tackles in space!

Bucks777's picture

I think we all can agree our defensive scheme/philosophy is NOT working.
 
What to do about it?

another-navy-buckeye's picture

People do not typically change their philosophy in a year's time... If we all agree that the defensive philosophy needs a change then we certainly do need a new mind in the mix, at a high enough position to make a difference.
If our defense goes onto the field and looks confused about play calls 14 games later there must be a problem.  With lack of proper guidance and training even the smartest and best people around can and will be lost at times.  It seems to me that coaching is the more logical issue to blame, not the players. 

DenverBuckeye

aabuckeye's picture

If you lose, the obvious conclusion is that you have to get better. Unless you're the NC, then you have to get better. Even then, unless you played the perfect game, you have to get better. No shame in that sentiment. No shame in the loss.
We can't win every game. And if we lose, sometimes it's just because the other team was better that day or better every day. It happens. We're lucky -- not really luck -- that it doesn't happen as much to us as it does to others. The sun will rise tomorrow. And so will Urban et al. I'm sure he's as dissatisfied with the results as we are -- and knows more than us what to do about it. (Then again, maybe not, maybe hiring him was a huge mistake -- him and his padded resume!)

Dublin68's picture

Bucks777..great post....Thank you so much, u nailed the def problem...UV for you on all your posts in this blog

Bucks777's picture

Thanks just like sharing; and listening to other buckeyes thoughts.
 
Go Bucks!!

Bucks777's picture

I believe the :We need to get better" statement is just that, unless there is obvious improvement throughout the season.
Perfect example:
Dantonio tells the press in East Lansing ," ...we have to get better on offense"  week 1
(they were horrible the first 2-3 weeks of the year offensively)
 
8 weeks later they have a legitimate offense that is producing.  They made some drastic changes at running back, coached some guys up, threw in some unique passing plays to the TE and Running back and WOW!  Drastic times call for drastic measures.  Dantonio made the adjustments that he needed to make offensively.  If yo ask anyone on this post "Do you believe after watching MSU the first 3 games of the season with that pathetic offense, that they will challenge us, let alone beat Stanford in the Rose Bowl?  People would have laughed, they had no offense. They did something about it.
 
MSU offense week 1-5:   C- to  a D  (Grade)
MSU offense last 2 weeks of the season : A-  That is drastic improvement!
 
All I am saying is we have heard "we need to get better" when asked about our defensive scheme and defense in general, what has happened over the course of 13 weeks..? Nothing if anything most would agree we have regressed.
OSU defense week 1  (c-)
OSU Defense after 13 weeks  (c-)
 
Our defense is still in DRASTIC times!!!

keep_it_down's picture

All I think really needs to be looked at is where is the offense is ranked and where the defense is ranked (rankings in B1G, nationally what have you). You can make the argument that the offense feasted on a weak schedule but that would make the defensive short comings that much more apparent as they should have reflected the same benefit of a weak schedule. Instead it was a steady stream of the opposing QB's having career day after career day. The WR screen has been there all year and we have yet to stop it, at some point "we do need to get better".

Defending the boarder