About PSU

BuckeyeBred's picture
December 27, 2013 at 12:17p

I've seen a lot of words written about BOB and PSU these last few days due to the HC's buyout reduction, impending interviews, etc.  I think BOB seems like a decent dude. He said some nice things about the Bucks when we were trapped in the undefeated/outside-looking-in ESPiN narrative late fall - and that was cool; he didn't have to do that. Reading about his child's health concerns, I want the best for he and his family. Shoot, I would even donate blood if it would help the kid recover.

That said, what I haven't enjoyed reading about is some of the posts about how the NCAA was too harsh on PSU and how it would be great to have them as a power again. In my perspective, if they were never able to field a football team again, that would be justice for their misdeeds. What the leaders of that football team and school covered up was the worst of humanity's crimes.  To protect a football team at the expense of children?? You represent a school for goodness sake! You are supposed to be in charge of leading and molding young minds! That's your job. You failed, PSU leadership.  It enrages me to even think about it for very long. 

So, as far as whether I would give two damns if PSU's football program ever saw the light of day, a bowl game, and B10 title game, etc. - meh. They deserved a football death penalty.  If they never climb out of the hole that they dug for themselves, it would be too soon. 

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11thAveBuckeye's picture

I have a friend who goes to PSU and he was a kid when all of that happened and had no clue anything was going on as any fan of that football team. I do not wish ill on those people because there were people that are no longer around the university that did horrible horrible things. Dont get me wrong I agree those action are the worst crime imaginable.
The university itself, now, is an AMAZING force for good in many kids life. Their "Thon" raised over 10 million last year. To compare, buckeyethon which is growing rapidly at OSU is amazing as well yet only is able to raise 100k. 100x our amount. That is insane. I don't wish the kids at that university who do all that good to not have a football team they grew up loving just as any buckeye did.

They are paying their due price now so it will not happen for next generations... Which already I doubt would have even happened with its culture. Agree though with BOB always being classy. Anyways, that my two cents about PSU

BuckeyeBred's picture

That's great to hear, 11.  I know a good amount of PSU alums and they have all been very nice folks. In no way did I mean this post to disgrace them, but instead point out the larger picture of what a university (and any school, really) is supposed to do - provide for the cultivation of the community it serves - not JUST try to field a NC caliber football team. That is the exact opposite of what was shown to be the case during the uncovering of the mess in HV.
Again, my gripe isn't with BOB, who has shown himself a class act who has surely helped heal some of the self inflicted PSU wounds brought on by the criminals who were in charge, but rather argue some points made about how the NCAA was too harsh. 
In this case, it appears that the attempts to save face for the football team, specifically, led to a cover up of heinous crimes. Mistakes happen and I believe in rehabilitation, but if I were in charge of the process of ensuring they are to be entrusted with kids' futures again, it would have to be years and years of demonstrating sound judgment with strict oversight before I let them loose to operate without neutral parties making the final calls (be it the NCAA or another, perhaps even more principled, party). 

Qujo's picture

Sorry, the most egregious crime to ever happen at a  University doesn't need bleeding hearts saying "but the current students didn't do it". Let the university suffer for covering it up, as they should. No more reductions of fines, penalties or it minimizes the impact that it had on real people who were victimized. Don't let the crime hide behind good kids who are now at school there, let it play out as it should so the fans of NCAAF across the nation and the schools know you cannot ever let this happen again. Letting the penalties slide would be more injustice to those impacted. Kids that choose to go to school there can either transfer if college football is that important to them OR never go there in the first place. It is a good school so any kid that goes there would be going for the education and to know the school unjustly treated kids unfairly in the past so their football program is gonna suck for a number of years. AMEN!

Our arch rivals.... 11 National Championships, 10 before 1949 - eight of eleven shared. Trying to respect them... trying.... Ugh!

Hovenaut's picture

My father in law is a PSU alum, the scandal shook him to the core. Without denying what took place, or who was involved/responsible, he's standing by the football team and the community and just looking to move forward.
O'Brien was the best hire for the Nits under the situation. I wasn't aware of his background until after he arrived in State College, and in further detail from an episode of HBO Sports.
The guy has, and always will have, my respect for what he's endured professionally and personally.
It'll be a blow to Penn State in having to replace him. But if there's a college coach worthy for the opportunity to pursue his craft at the highest level, it's Bill O'Brien.

allinosu's picture

Your entitled to your opinion buckeyebred but believe me it's not as cut and dried as you believe. I was a victim to one of these monsters when I was very young. There is not a day goes by I wish I would have had the courage to fight instead of being quiet. It was happening right in my home. My parents were floored when they found out because he was such a great friend. Do I blame them. NO, because they were victims too and these guys are so good and calculating It's very hard to find them. They give no indication prior to getting caught and it's usually by accident. Remember we only know about the ones that do get caught. It would probably shock you if you knew how many there are.One could be in contact with you every day and you would not know it. I thought with experience I couldn't get fooled but I work with a paramedic who was volunteering at football games and victimizing injured football players for years. He was a family man who had boys and big in his church. Is the town to blame? Everybody wanted somebody to blame because we all feel helpless if there is no scapegoat. Joe was no more to blame than you or me. He reported what he heard. I'll never know who dropped the ball there or if it was a combination of people thinking it was exaggerated or it was a little looking the other way but I'm sure one thing these guys very good it's hard to get them.

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

I'm sorry to hear about your childhood struggles and I hope you've reached a place where you can find peace.
People should never overlook the fact that there were rumors about Jerry for years before he was finally indicted. If you go back and look at the very first published stories about it (more than six months before his arrest),  mention was made of the problem Second Mile had for years with declining participation in their big fund raising golf tournament specifically because people were uncomfortable being associated with Sandusky.
PSU fans are trying hard to bury (or just ignore) large parts of the story, but there is no doubt that to some extent Jerry Sandusky's proclivities were an open secret around State College.
When I first arrived at PSU for oversight on one of the research projects that we were funding I was given a tour of the campus. After a brief introduction to Sandusky, my host laughingly referred to him "Jerry the Perv". That was in the late 90's.
I can understand how people tend to overlook things that set off their radar because they don't want to believe it's true or because they don't want to ruin someone's life with a false accusation (I have a strong suspicion that one of my HS spanish teachers was molesting the foreign exchange students he hosted every year, we used to joke about it...but no one was quite sure enough to do anything about it) but I'm not inclined to forgive a fan base that had long detailed threads explaining how it was impossible for a man to rape a boy in the shower due to the difference in height.
Until the old guard cretins of that fanbase dies off; as far as I'm concerned, PSU can rot.

Bolt's picture

It's one thing to be in denial or to be oblivious, it's another thing to know about it, let it continue and then actively cover it up to protect a name brand. You can't really compare your parents in that type of situation to the football coaches and administrators at PSU.

BuckeyeBred's picture

Thanks for your perspective, Allin. I'm sorry to hear about your personal bout with this type of horror. I still have trouble coming to grips with this Sandusky situation, which is hundreds of miles away from me and my family, I can't imagine what it must have been like dealing with it in the place where you are supposed to be safest. My heart goes out to you.
I certainly don't think the situation would be easy to root out. I know these folks are very crafty when hiding their actions. However, he was caught in the act and still not dealt with appropriately. 
My intentions for this post aren't necessarily to rehash old news or even to find catharsis, but rather argue the point that the B10 "needs" a good Penn State. We do not. Do we need other teams to step up that will have solid reputations so when we beat them we get quality wins? Yes, but it doesn't have to be PSU specifically.
Which is why I say they are perhaps the least deserving of our hopes for a solid team and we should instead root for a B10 team that doesn't have a history of putting their football team's glory over the safety of young children. 

Poison nuts's picture

Do we need other teams to step up that will have solid reputations so when we beat them we get quality wins? Yes, but it doesn't have to be PSU specifically.

While I'm not sure whether I agree in full with the sentiments of your original post, I certainly agree about this. I think people want a strong PSU because the B1G is in the dumps & PSU is a traditional blue-blood powerhouse, so it seems to make sense that them being strong is good for the conference. The truth is, if other teams step up, win some OOC games, win some bowl games, recruit well, & generally play solid football - that's what the conference needs. It could be  any number of B1G teams & B1G teams to be. Doesn't have to be a traditional power - just some schools willing to build programs that become current powers. 

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

CarolinaBuck's picture

When you look at various Penn State sites (Rivals, Scout, Etc.), there are still threads deciphering emails, conversations, meetings, etc. Most PSU fans hate Sandusky and feel he deserved everything he got. The fact that JoPa was involved, to what ever degree, has just crushed many of them to the point of denial and disillusion.
I'm not going to rehash the whole affair, but there are three incidents that PSU fans simply can't explain away. First, when Curley, Schultz, and Spanier agreed to a course of action which included telling child welfare services, the very next day that plan was shelved after talking it over with "Joe". Second, Sanducky continued to have access to PSU facilities and events. He was seen repeatedly at bowl games and other PSU football related activities with young boys and no one ever questioned what he was doing there and no one questioned where those young boys were staying at night. With Sandusky? Third, Sandusky being welcomed into the official PSU loge at Beaver Stadium just weeks before his indictment to witness JoPa become the winningest college football coach of all time. 
Why as a university, with all you had to know, was this allowed?

allinosu's picture

I went though this hatred with my  parents wanting his whole family to rot in hell. The hatred consumed them till they died. No way to live. 99.999 PSU people were horrified too. Good people should not suffer for this. The others can. Good kids need these scholarships and I want them to have it.

Joebobb's picture

The PSU scandal was horrible beyond words. That being said the NCAA made things worse. They had no business getting involved in this they way they did. THis was not an NCAA matter but a criminal matter. The NCAA's job is to make sure the playing field is level and fair for a student athletes. They do a horrible job at it but that is a different post.
PSU should be punished extensively by the law and the civil courts. The NCAA made a huge mistake stepping in here. They violated their own rules of due process in passing their quick judgment, and this was not a sports matter. There were no NCAA violations at PSU and the punishment was merely a knee jerk reaction to do something.
It is great to see the progress made at PSU, I hope to see PSU penalties further reduced (given that what happened at Miami was pretty bad as well) The culture there is forever changed and there should be no need to punish innocent members anymore. I hope Penn State is able to regain their status as an elite team again.

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Penn State was a program that did not have a compliance staff. It was a program where decisions made by the athletic department where run by the head football coach. It was the very definition of lack of institutional control.
If there was a real culture change they wouldn't be electing lunatics like Anthony Lubrano to the board of trustees.
The real failure on the part of the NCAA was allowing the school to retain it's membership

CarolinaBuck's picture

First, remember it was Joe Paterno who was allowed to hire the athletic director, his boss. Where else in the world does that happen? 
Second, on a previous post, some one pointed out that the NCAA shouldn't have got involved because it was a criminal, not a athletic matter. Keep in mind, the reason PSU and everyone involved including Paterno tried to sweep this under the rug was to protect the phony pristine image of the boys from State College. Paterno was under immense pressure to resign when McQuery saw Sandusky in the shower with the young boy. Had knowledge of this leaked out it would have been the end of Paterno's reign as HC at PSU. This is the main reason Paterno was stripped of his wins dating back to the time of these crimes.

BukFan's picture

I can't believe we're still discussing this. PSU got punished and should be allowed to move on.  I will never convict an entire community or football team for the crimes of a few.  

Kernfan's picture

The thing that bothered me about PSU getting NCAA sanctions for a criminal cover-up is it seems as if they are the only one.  I have a hard time thinking if the NCAA looked at some of the lack of investigations at schools of sexual assault of coeds, they wouldn't find more failure of schools to investigate.  That's why the PSU sanctions surprised me.

aabuckeye's picture

I see your point, but don't forget the nature of the crimes: the systemic grooming and raping of you boys using the back drop of the PSU football program. Sure there's room for improvement -- no rape, or knowing rules violations, should go unpunished, but what happened at PSU goes well beyond the pale and they deserved the punishment -- I for no other reason than to send the message that the reputation of the school, or school's football program, is NOT more important the scarred lives of innocent victims.

BukFan's picture

^^^^AMEN brother!  See Notre dame, North Dakota and every campus in America where men behave badly and the NCAA doesn't give crap...unless someone gets paid.