Even Without Suspension, Marcus Hall Has to Come to Terms with Actions

December 6, 2013 at 6:45a    by DJ Byrnes    
81 Comments
Marcus Hall: OSU Legend

From The Columbus Dispatch:

“He is distraught and completely wiped out and feels bad about what he did,” center Corey Linsley said. “It was the heat of the moment. We’ve all done things in the heat of the moment that we regret.

“After the game, I sat in the locker room and waited for him after he talked with coach (Urban Meyer), and he was at a loss for words and said he couldn’t believe it. ‘Everything was going right in my life.’

“I said, ‘Whoa, dude. It’s just football. It’s not like your life is off track now.’ I think we all did an OK job of bringing him back.”

Marcus, there's no reason to stay sour over spilled milk. Sure, it probably wasn't the wisest course of actions, but what's done is done. (To those people quick to label Marcus a "thug" in the immediate aftermath of the kerfuffle during The Game: take a note.)

Also buried in this article is praise for Marcus Hall's replacement, Pat Elflein. Corey Linsley admitted Elfein was a little "wide-eyed" when he initially came into The Game, but settled into place after a couple of series and logged a yeoman's effort on the afternoon. He even received half-time praise and encouragement from the banished Marcus Hall. (Again, quite the thug, this Marcus Hall guy.)


81 Comments

Comments

TMac's picture

Marcus can just "come to terms" with the Spartan Defender across from him, time and time again, opening holes for Braxton and El Guapo!!

stevebelliseeya's picture

I want that T-shirt. Please tell me that is real. 

"What's the matter kid? Don't ya like clowns? - Captain Spaulding

Poison nuts's picture

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill" - Detective Rustin Cohle.

coloradobuckeye's picture

Given how Marcus feels about this, it is too bad some will have this t-shirt as a reminder of something he regrets.  

Let your hobbies and interests supplement your life, not be the main course.

nfischer's picture

Just wondering, not that I'm the internet police or anything, but is that legal?  Can I take a picture of Peyton Manning (or anyone for that matter), add some words/graphics and then start selling it?  My imagination i$ running wild.

gumtape's picture

Cheer up Marcus. We now know you are the type of player that would choke your opponent over a game of checkers. Just like urbz wanted.
I have a feeling the mad scientist with the psychology degree is smiling on the inside.

just another psycho, irrational, delusional Ohio St fan

OSU_ALUM_05's picture

Maul some Sparty, you'll feel better

1stYrBuckIClub's picture

When I saw this on television, I was beside myself... Not so much because of how it affected our team, but because of how far Marcus has come. From an academic red shirt to receiving the highest of praise from the most elite of coaches, I kept thinking 'I know Marcus is better than this, why is he acting like that?' And it was just that, a moment of frustration in the heat of the moment. Just one more reason for Buckeye Nation to pull for Marcus Hall...

mr.green's picture

It was a horrible moment, and is being used by people who know nothing about Marcus or Ohio State to define him and the program. But the rest of us know better. Chin up Marcus. We have your back and understand the emotions.

As for Elf.ein, he will go down with Laurinaitis in OSU-Michigan lore. Quite the show.

Hovenaut's picture

Got your back big guy....everyone makes mistakes. It's all good.
Not everyone was in the situation you were in, or in those circumstances.

"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

acBuckeye's picture

Exactly. Easy for outsiders to judge when they weren't the ones in the situation. Buckeye Nation has forgiven you, Marcus. And if any of you haven't, get with the program.

buckeyedude's picture

I cringed when I saw him do it, Hov, but I am quite certain the TTUN fans were taunting the shit out of him. Of he has to learn to control that, but not a huge deal, IMHO.
 

 
 

hansman's picture

Exactly....you know there fans were telling him he could go *uck himself and yelling everything imaginable at him right after an all-out brawl that their players started and he somehow found himself ejected for before people like #34, 44, and others. I'm not saying this makes it okay, but the fact that every single player on their team (other than #52 who ripped off Dontre's helmet) has been given a free pass by the refs, the BIG, and the media and nobody is acknowledging all that really happened is infuriating.

Hovenaut's picture

Been there - not in front of 100k+ at the Sh!thouse - but I know what it's like when a hostile crowd is just getting under your skin.
Hall's response was not unsolicited, this is true.....the AA's were out en masse at that moment.
Marcus' best f you to them all is playing tomorrow.
Under reprimand, of course.
 

"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

Oyster's picture

As time goes on, he will look back at his actions and tell the story with a twinkle in his eye.  Friends will ask him to retell the story of what happened, even though they have heard him tell it before.  Years from now, on a cold Saturday in November, people will remember what happened and they will smile. 

Buckeye80's picture

Hell, I'm smiling now!  He acted while overwhelmed with emotion.  All is forgiven by anybody that should mean anything.  I actually think its great that we see that emotion, and that the team means that much to the players.  Remember, Marcus wasn't out there "fighting" for himself , but for his team and teammates.  He was standing up for what was right.

AndyVance's picture

How many people can honestly say they wouldn't have reacted similarly? Hall may have reacted a little ungracefully, but I was right there with him. He was kicking benches, I was kicking my couch... He threw his helmet, I threw my remote control...
Dad taught us boys that you never start the fight, but you damn well better finish it. I think Marcus and Dontre were both exhibiting Dad's wisdom. Unfortunately for them, in college football it's the reaction that almost always gets dinged, not the instigation.

acBuckeye's picture

I would've kicked the couch and thrown something if my wife and kids weren't in the room.

AndyVance's picture

A wise 11W poster (Oyster) told me that the trick is to make sure you're not holding the baby (my daughter is 9 months old) while watching the game. That way you only throw the remote, and not the baby.

acBuckeye's picture

Congrats on the youngster. Mine are 5 and 7, and they take me throwing them at their age as play time.

Haybucks's picture

They make Nerf-like bricks for such an occassion. 

I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.
- Edward Gibbon
 

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

In my day they used real bricks.
The pussification of America continues.

Oyster's picture

You have some anger issues Andy ; )
I trust you took my advice on holding the baby, prior to the start of the game?

AndyVance's picture

Okay, you win the internet serendipity award of the day (see my reply above). Yes, I have heeded your advice each week, my friend. Sound wisdom :)

Chestnut Ridge Buckeye's picture

It's refreshing to see a player express heartfelt remorse as opposed to all those "apologies" required by administrators and/or lawyers. 
And because of his actions, he was forced to sit for his final year edition of "The Game", which turned out to be one for the ages. 
No one outside of the OSU/UM communities can comprehend what a severe punishment that is. So nuts to all the pundits complaining that Urban should have added on further suspension. 
He's suffered enough already. 

Bucks1's picture

Agree, thought his apology was spot on and this kid has every right to move on and take his anger out with some MSU pancakes!

"I will pound you and pound you until you quit." - Woody Hayes

chicagobuckeye's picture

I think the most defining part of the article is in the last couple paragraphs. Marcus Hall going up to Pat Elfien and giving him a hug and a bode of confidence.

osu07asu10's picture

No worries Marcus, buckeye nation understands!
Now, go out and pave some roads and open some holes for Hyde and Miller!!!

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

AkronBuckeye13's picture

Someone please make that shirt happen.

Baroclinicity's picture

I'm normally not a fan of vulgar shirts, but that has made me laugh so much this morning.

rekrul's picture

Someone direct him to these 11w threads or maybe Meechy can let him know that more people like it, let me rephrase it, LOVE IT, than dislike it including UM fans.  We are so politically correct anymore that flipping the bird is the reason to call someone a thug, hooligan...  #Forfcknreal???
 
I think this will go down as one of the clips that gets replayed when they discuss this rivalry...

Out Work, Out Think, Out Play!!!

dustinccc's picture

I have always said the true character of man is not what his mistakes were made, but how they are handled.  Learn, grow and become better because of it and then you become a man of  great character.   Go get some Sparty!

Whoa Nellie's picture

Learn from it.  Move on. 
Let's have "pancakes".

“Don’t fear criticism. The stands are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down on the field are the doers, they make mistakes because they attempt many things.”

Old Sparty's picture

It sounds like Marcus Hall is genuinely sorry for the way he acted after the ejection.  It would be best to help him put it all in the past, chalk it up as a mistake, and move on.  I would not celebrate the obscene gestures and certainly wouldn't want it memorialized on a T shirt.  Playing this clip like some sort of highlight reel is not good for Marcus Hall.  I am sure that it is not how he wants to be remembered as a player at OSU.
There is going to be some blow back from this at the game Saturday.  Some extra volume at player introductions, comments from fans directed toward him, possibly even obscene gestures directed at him.  He has shown that he has a short fuse and now some instigator types will try to pull him off his square.  He needs to be ready to ignore a lot and play through the distractions.  Ditto for the team.

this is where we hold them, THIS IS WHERE THEY DIE!!! GIVE THEM NOTHING but take from them EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!

Chestnut Ridge Buckeye's picture

 Much as I do love the shirt, I have to agree with this. I wouldn't buy it unless it were somehow approved by Marcus Hall himself. Otherwise, it might come off as mocking him.

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

I admit that I LOL'd pretty hard when he flipped off the scUM crowd.  Though certainly there were some OSU fans in the area and I would hope they knew that the birds weren't for them.  That's just how much I hate TTUN, though.
Having to miss 3/4 of The Game in his senior year had to be incredibly tough.  He has nobody to blame but himself for that.  At the end of the day, he knows better, but it's not like he failed classes or got arrested, though.  He acted a fool for a few moments...who hasn't?

Class of 2010.

causeicouldntgo43's picture

I'm normally one for acting with class and decorum, but Marcus/Dontre didn't start the Michigan Mugging(tm), emotions were running sky high, and I can't blame Hall for the Flying Double Bird of Frustration in the biggest rivalry game in College football. No one but the players on the field knew how hard the hitting was, how mouthy TTUN was, how intense the emotions were.
Context is everything. If Hall had started a fight because he was getting beat all day, got mad, knocked someone's helmet off, got ejected, and flipped off the crowd, during , say, the INDIANA game, then I would'a thought, "damn Marcus, get some anger management".
I'm sure not everyone will agree with me on this, and that's OK. But If I'm being honest, I kind of enjoyed the double bird. He paid the price with the ejection, despite the extreme outrage from guys like Feinstein and Stinchcomb who want him to have a 6 game suspension. Oh the horror! On to more, shall we say, substantial matters, like beating the hell out of Sparty!

Idaho Helga's picture

Exactly this.  I would also think that he had no idea he was on TV as he exited, otherwise it's unlikely the birdies would have flown.  But I have to admit I enjoyed that too. The double ejection when they started it and there were 2 other TTUN players that should have been ejected made me feel that they deserved the single finger salutes.

M Man's picture

Marcus Hall definitely didn't start it.
I still think Dontre Wilson DID start it.
Anyway, I know a lot of other M men who are quietly laughing about what an awesome flip off it was.  A double.
And a lot more noted the belated effort by Kenny Guiton to pull down Marcus' arms on the way out of the tunnel.  Kind of a classy move by a classy Guiton.  But Kenny would probably need a front-end loader to pull down the arms of Marcus Hall.
I don't know how Meyer or Hall or OSU could have handled this any better.  I am going to see what Michigan does with RJS.  I hope there is a similar expression of remorse.

RedStorm45's picture

I still think Dontre Wilson DID start it.

LOL.  gtfo.

Brutus's picture

M Man, please elaborate on your thoughts as to why Wilson started it.  During the pregame last Saturday, someone tweeted that Wilson and Norfleet were jawing at each other. It turns out that Norfleet is the guy that "tackled" Wilson during the kick return that started all this, that is if you call tackling, pulling someone down by his headgear.  Whatever.  Stuff happens so I'm ok with the rough, albeit illegal takedown.  Now, it appears that while Wilson was trying to get up, maybe he gave a bit of an extra shot to Norfleet as he was trying to get out of the scrum.  Again, I'm ok with this given that Norfleet just tried taking his head off.  It was after this point that Wilson was surrounded by seven guys, Norfleet not being one of them.  So I ask, at what point did Wilson start this thing?  Was it at the bottom of the pile when we was tackled or did it start before with whatever that tweet was about during the pregame?  I'm genuinely interested in TTUN's take on this.  I saw some major chickenshittery from your team during that play, but I am also not privy to anything that might have happened or was said that led up to this. 

M Man's picture

Dear Brutus,
I established my infamy here at the "Equal Responsibility for The Fight" thread.  I think that endeavor on my part cost me about 200 of my prized 11W helmet stickers.  You can see how it went.
The short version on what I conceded, and what I contended:

  1. Michigan's Dennis Norfleet (23) is an all-Conference trash-talker, and I hope our coaches get him to stop it.
  2. But Norfleet's trash-talking didn't seem to have anything to do with the fight.  At least not insofar as Norfleet was happily running away from the scene before the fight broke out.
  3. I know of no evidence that Norfleet's tackle of Dontre Wilson on the kickoff was dirty.
  4. It does look like Jehu Chesson (86) might have given a very slight push to Wilson as the play was whistled dead.  But on the low endzone camera, it looks like nothing at all.
  5. It is apparent to me (in fairness, I won't say that it is "obvious") that Dontre Wilson's getting up from the tackle and charging forward, and semi-knocking down Norfleet, is what started everything.  That is the essential point in all of this, to me.
  6. After that, it looks as though the Michigan guys (mostly Detroit friends of Norfleet) including Jourdan Lewis (26), Raymon Taylor (6), Royce Jenkins-Stone (52), plus Jeremy Clark (not a Detroit kid) all stepped in to get in Wilson's grill over what they thought was Wilson's giving Norfleet a little extra business.  It was an escalation, on the part of the Michigan guys.  
  7. Then of course J.T. Moore and Vonn Bell step into the fray and it goes from a standoff, to something physical.  And of course it deteriorates from there.  There is no excusing anybody; certainly not Michigan's Royce-Jenkins Stone.  I think we are all very lucky that two of the best players in the game, Jake Ryan of Michigan (47) and Braxton Miller, were not tossed from that game.  They both did things that, if seen on their own, could easily have gotten them thrown out.  What a horrible way for The Game to be determined.  We are all lucky that there was such a general scrum, that much of it got overlooked.

In the end it was my contention that the whole thing was unfortunate; that I hated to see any of it in The Game;  that I would have liked it if nobody had gotten ejected, but that I understood the refs having to enforce some quick and sloppy justice under the circumstances.  I hoped that no one would be suspended for the B1G Championship game, and that I had totally understood how the Conference and also Urban Meyer had responded.
Really, I think the only controversial thing that I argued was that "Dontre started it."  I even went so far as to say that I had no doubt that Dontre surely never intended a fight or anything like that.  What happened, happened.  But even after having been shouted down in that thread, I still think Dontre started it.
I was there, and I did not see Norfleet and Wilson jawing during the warmups.  But I absolutely believe it.  Norfleet jaws with anybody and everybody.

Deadly Nuts's picture

After that, it looks as though the Michigan guys (mostly Detroit friends of Norfleet) including Jourdan Lewis (26), Raymon Taylor (6), Royce Jenkins-Stone (52), plus Jeremy Clark (not a Detroit kid) all stepped in to get in Wilson's grill over what they thought was Wilson's giving Norfleet a little extra business.

Yes... Because they all heard the conversation between Wilson and Norfleet from various spots on the field. Then they just happened to all swarm Wilson at the same time and started throwing punches. Makes perfect sense. ttun started it. End of story.

Fuck m*ch*gan! That is all.

M Man's picture

No.  That didn't happen either.  Punches got thrown after Bell and Moore physically stepped in.  One of them (Moore, I think, three the first baby punch.  Then RJS went after Dontre.
To be sure, it was one escalation after another.  But, uh, Dontre started it.

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

You are absolutely full of shit. I've watched HD video in slow motion of the entire event a multitude of times. As Von Bell approaches the group he pushes a couple of people aside then grabs Taylor by the back of the jersey pulling him back. J.T. Moore steps in and puts his left arm around Dontre Wilson's shoulder attempting to pull him back. That is when Clark sucker punches Dontre. After that Von shoves Taylor in the shoulder and J.T. reaches up with his right arm to push Delano Hill back away from himself and Wilson (his left arm is still around Dontre) pushing against Hill's face mask as he does so.

But, uh, Dontre started it.

No he didn't. No matter how many times you say it, or put your fingers in your ears or lie to yourself to protect your world view it won't change the actual facts.
The fight was started by Jeremy Clark. Up until he threw the first punch it was just some minor pushing (and probably jawing), after his unprovoked punch everything exploded.
Edit: I thought you were replying to my last post. Hence my "you're full of shit" as I thought your "no that didn't happen either" was in response to me. Still Deadly Nuts isn't that far off the mark.

M Man's picture

So your theory is that Jeremy Clark "started" it.
Okay.
So the "scrum" around Dontre Wilson didn't start it, yes?  Nothing occurring before Clark gets into it started it, have I got that right?
You fellas need to get your stories straight on when and how things started.
I made no outlandish allegations against Dontre Wilson.  I said he "started it"; not meaning to allege that he intended to start a fight, because I said that rather explicitly.  I say that Dontre started it all with the first post-whistle aggressive move; running over Norfleet.  The Michigan guys responded to that; they got in Wilson's way.  Moore and Vonn Bell responded; they tried to break it up.  Wilson pushes into Frank Clark, responding to whatever was going on between the two of them.  Jeremy Clark responds, with a shove of his hand in Wilson's facemask.  
You see how it goes?
In the original thread on this, my disclaimer was that the whole thing was essentially mutual, the process of one escalation after another, that is after Wilson started it all, in the way that I pretty carefully described. 

cajunbuckeye's picture

scUM is a 7-5 team full of wannabe tough guys. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

So your theory is that Jeremy Clark "started" it.

It's not a theory. It's supported by observation.

So the "scrum" around Dontre Wilson didn't start it, yes? Nothing occurring before Clark gets into it started it, have I got that right?

Oh the hood rat huddle was certainly an attempt to intimidate Wilson but if the refs or a couple of more Ohio State players had arrived at that point things would have been de-escalated. If Clark hadn't throw a punch Moore would have gotten Wilson out of the circle and that would have been the end of it.
Yes every escalation was instigated by players from TSUN, but Clark was the reason the brawl occurred. Period.

You fellas need to get your stories straight on when and how things started.

You fellas? I believe we've established my view on straw men.
I've been clear and consistent on the order of events that occurred. Unlike you I've also restrained from injecting personal opinion regarding the motivation of the actors involved.

I made no outlandish allegations against Dontre Wilson.

Claiming that diving forward for additional yardage is 'aggressive' is the very definition of outlandish.

I said he "started it"; not meaning to allege that he intended to start a fight, because I said that rather explicitly. I say that Dontre started it all with the first post-whistle aggressive move; running over Norfleet.

Except that he didn't run over Norfleet. Saying it over and over still won't make it true. Norfleet was extricating himself from the pile and Dontre was making a football move away from him.
It happens multiple times in every game, and yet somehow doesn't result in a sucker punch starting a brawl.
Diving forward for yards or to get out of the pile is not an aggressive move, regardless of how much you may wish it to be so.

The Michigan guys responded to that; they got in Wilson's way.

They were already moving towards Wilson before that point.

Moore and Vonn Bell responded; they tried to break it up.

Yes they came in to extricate Wilson. That is not an escalation.

Wilson pushes into Frank Clark, responding to whatever was going on between the two of them.

Well that's certainly a new claim on your part. Wilson didn't push into anyone, as he stands up he is protecting the ball and his head is down. Even as the ball is being wrestled out of his hand he's not acting aggressively. He doesn't actively respond until after Jeremy Clark hits him in the grill.
I'm assuming your use of Frank Clark was a slip as he was nowhere near the initial confrontation. As you can see below he was walking up to the fracas after Jeremy Clark's punch occurred.

You see how it goes?

Your continual grasping at straws, making unsubstantiated claims & constructing a false narrative? Yes I'm quite aware of the process.

In the original thread on this, my disclaimer was that the whole thing was essentially mutual, the process of one escalation after another, that is after Wilson started it all, in the way that I pretty carefully described.

Except that most of what you described has little basis in fact.  You've created an entire fiction to support what you want to believe to be true. Given your track record in defending Lewan's continual dirty play, your opinion is not exactly reliable.

Brutus's picture

M Man, I appreciate the response. I didn't mean to stir up shit again, but I appreciate you defending your obviously flawed view.

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

I still think Dontre Wilson DID start it.

It's called the Backfire Effect or as David McRaney described it "When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger.”
@Brutus - The tackle was legal. Norfleet had a handful of jersey around the shoulder, not the facemask or inside of the shoulder pad (horse collar).

M Man's picture

I just never saw any contradictory evidence.
The allegation was that Norfleet put a dirty tackle on Dontre; that has been debunked.  Kudos to you my friend for helping clear that up.  
There was an allegation of a facemask by Chesson; there's zero video showing that.  What looks in the midfield camera angle like Chesson giving Dontre a little shot looks like nothing at all from the endzone camera.  
There was no "scrum" of any kind until Wilson shoots forward 4-5 yards, running over Norfleet.  Look at the video again.  There is no scrum, no gathering at all, until Wilson made that move.
And while for the OSU fans it all seems to start with the Michigan guys "huddling" around Dontre and getting in his face, it is clear that things started before that, with Wilson charging ahead and knocking Norfleet to the ground, with Norfleet leaving the scene before anything gets going.  Only then to the Michigan guys run up to Wislon.  And only after Vonn Bell and J.T. Moore elbow their way into the mix, does anything get physical.  Before Dontre knocked into Norfleet, nothing was happening.
So yes, I think Dontre Started It.

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

I provided you with a succinct summation of what happened including pointing out that most of your claims are baseless. There is zero evidence to support your claims, and the video clearly disproves most of them.
You believe Dontre started it because you are unwilling to let facts intrude upon your world view.
 

M Man's picture

So why does Dontre suddenly burst forward and over Norfleet?
There's no Michigan "scrum" around Dontre at that point.  There is nothing for Wilson to try to escape; his tacklers (Norfleet, Chesson and I think RJS) are on their knees.  RJS is on his back.  
You might be better off arguing that it was accidental; that Dontre was stumbling, as he was getting up.  And that the Michigan guys mistook Dontre's stumble for an attempt to run over their little buddy Dennis.  But I don't think that's remotely credible.  He's giving Dennis Norfleet a shot.  Not much of one, of course.  Norfleet, merely excited about the tackle is off and running to the bench.  Norfleet, the great trashtalker, is ironically one of the great innocents in this mess.  He was heading back to his own bench, unaware of the unfolding drama.

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

So why does Dontre suddenly burst forward and over Norfleet?

He didn't burst forward over Norfleet, as they both went down in the initial tackle Wilson was already on top of Norfleet. When he drove forward it was away from Norfleet. He was lunging & reaching forward with the ball in his hand just like you see at the end of plays all the time. It looks exactly like every other player trying to eke out an extra yard or two either thinking that the play wasn't called dead yet or just trying to con the refs with a better spot.
He didn't give Norfleet 'a shot'. If his intent was to drive into Norfleet, then he would have actually driven into and not away from him. Even after Wilson stands up he's still protecting the ball as the mob closes in. It's clear that his focus was on the play not cheap shots.
The primary instigators are Jeremy Clark who throws a sucker punch and to a lesser extent whoever ripped the ball away after the play was clearly dead.

M Man's picture

You have just advanced the worst possible argument on behalf of Dontre Wilson.  It is one that I might even agree with, if I were forced to.  But I truly think you are wrong.

He was lunging & reaching forward with the ball in his hand just like you see at the end of plays all the time. It looks exactly like every other player trying to eke out an extra yard or two either thinking that the play wasn't called dead yet or just trying to con the refs with a better spot.

If that were the case -- that Wilson was trying to still run the play -- the correct thing for the Michigan guys might be to knock his ass down, as violently as possible.  Nobody did that; I think the play was clearly whistled dead and everybody knew it.
If the alternative were the case -- that Wilson was trying to game the spot of the ball -- then the understandable thing (if not the "right" thing) for the Michigan guys to do would be to get in Wilson's way.  Stop him.  Get in front of him, without drawing a personal foul.  Get in his face.  Get around him and stop him from gaming the spot after the whistle.
I really don't think either of those things happened, personally.  I still think that Dontre was trying to give Norfleet a little push in the back.  To run over him as they both got up.

The primary instigators are Jeremy Clark who throws a sucker punch and to a lesser extent whoever ripped the ball away after the play was clearly dead.

Naturally, I am going to ask you for a link that clearly supports such an aggressive description as "a sucker punch."  and in your next post, I presume, you will supply a link that absolutely and clearly shows a sucker punch, for which Jeremy Clark was never penalized. 

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

You have just advanced the worst possible argument on behalf of Dontre Wilson.  It is one that I might even agree with, if I were forced to.  But I truly think you are wrong.
If that were the case -- that Wilson was trying to still run the play -- the correct thing for the Michigan guys might be to knock his ass down, as violently as possible.  Nobody did that; I think the play was clearly whistled dead and everybody knew it.
If the alternative were the case -- that Wilson was trying to game the spot of the ball -- then the understandable thing (if not the "right" thing) for the Michigan guys to do would be to get in Wilson's way.  Stop him.  Get in front of him, without drawing a personal foul.  Get in his face.  Get around him and stop him from gaming the spot after the whistle.
I really don't think either of those things happened, personally.  I still think that Dontre was trying to give Norfleet a little push in the back.  To run over him as they both got up.

You are slipping farther and farther into the absurd.
Dontre was on top of Norfleet during the tackle, then he gave the last lunge forward. Again it is something that occurs regularly in games. Either the player is trying for a last yard or just pushing himself out of the pile.
The actions of Chesson, Jenkins-Stone & Thomas at that point all suggest that they felt the same way as they all react in a manner consistent with making sure that a player is down. Jenkins-Stone especially as his hands are extended following Wilson to the ground. They were doing essentially what you just argued above that they should be doing, albeit from the perspective of players caught off guard.
After the lunge, Wilson is on the ground with both knees touching. His momentum is spent. Not only is he obviously down, but it's clear that he believes he is down at this point. He then gets up to one knee before standing up. The mob arrives as he is on the ground and before he begins to stand.
Is your contention really that they should have knocked his ass violently to the ground after this point?

Naturally, I am going to ask you for a link that clearly supports such an aggressive description as "a sucker punch."  and in your next post, I presume, you will supply a link that absolutely and clearly shows a sucker punch, for which Jeremy Clark was never penalized.

Naturally in return you'll be able to provide the first bit of actual evidence that supports any of your claims as I think we both can agree you've completely failed to do so thus far.

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

Looks to me like Wilson is shoved after the tackle. And Norfleet must be slow if he is running back to the bench and gets run over by Wilson.

Bottom line, to me, is 2/3 of TTUN players on the field at the time surround Wilson. I don't see a single white jersey come running in until that happens. So logic would imply that if TTUN players went to their bench as they should've, this scrum doesn't happen.

What I like the most? A win in A2.

Haybucks's picture

It's typically a Norfleet moment to only jawbone when protected by his peers.

 

I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.
- Edward Gibbon
 

unknownmusketeer's picture

Watch #86 from UMich (left hand as he gets up). He seems to push Dontre into Norfleet.

M Man's picture

#86 is Jehu Chesson.  The midfield camera doesn't show that.  It sort of looks like it, but the view is blocked.  You can't see if Chesson is even touching Wilson.
Another view, from the endzone camera, is also inconclusive but even more clearly it looks as if Dontre Wilson gets his feet under him to drive forward and does so without a touch from Chesson.
Seriously, you guys got anything that proves any of these outrageous allegations?  Sucker punches?  Facemasking?  Gangs?

Kalamazoo Steve's picture

M Man, you are well respected here to be sure.

However you are the poster who stated Wilson started it. Burden of proof is on you, sir. You have any proof or just your unbiased opinion of what happened?

I'm starting to wonder if someone hacked your account or if you are just bitter about the state of your program that takes solice in a solid loss.

luckynutz's picture

Are you missing the clear picture of #34 with his arm extended at wilson right above? That body position indicates a punch. Whether it landed or not is another story.

M Man's picture

I think the picture depicts exactly what you think it does.   A left jab by Jeremy Clark at Dontre Wilson's facemask.  (Not much of a punch, but whatever.)  It is a still picture.  There is an untold number of still images that we could pick before that.
I don't know; this thread and the one before have been very interesting to me on the general subject of how differing fans ("fan" short for "fanatic") view the same videotape in radically different ways, with seemingly no way to come to even the most basic agreements and disputing every possible inference. 

luckynutz's picture

I could really care less who started it. It happened, and I can deal with the ejections. One thing I can't deal with is how #44 takes multiple swings at wilson AFTER his helmet has been ripped off, yet he stays in the game. Explain that one to me. I realize all bets are off once punches fly. And there were a lot of bodies...but not even after the tape is reviewed by the league they don't catch that? They reprimand hall, yet say nothing of the guy who could have done real, legit harm in the situation?

M Man's picture

Can't explain it, other than that there were more swings than the refs had eyes to see it all.
How does Braxton Miller stay in the game after dragging Dymonte Thomas five yards and eventually to his knees, by his facemask?  Do you want the Conference to review that?
I say again; I don't like the idea of anybody getting ejected or suspended.  Particularly not for a Championship game.

luckynutz's picture

According to them, they did review it. Thats the whole point. I honestly didn't see braxton do anything. I was too busy watching wilson to be honest. I won't say he didn't, because I wasn't paying attention to him. Pretty sure what they did was keyed on certain guys. Wilson was throwing punches...gone. #52 ripped his helmet off. Gone. And marcus hall is ginormous and threw a punch. Gone.

In all honesty they could have ejected eleventy players, but chose to remove the guys who escalated it the most with their actions. Its an imperfect science trying to sort through all the pushes, words and extracurricular bs in that kind of situation. They went after guys who clearly stepped over the boundaries of what is typical in a skirmish during a rivalry game. Did they get it 100 % right? No. But they let it be known that they wouldn't tolerate the extra nonsense. Jaw away...its expected. But don't cross that line, or you will join your buddies in the locker room.

All I'm saying is it shouldn't matter who started it. It happened, guys were ejected, and another epic chapter was written in the history books of The Game.

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

 There is an untold number of still images that we could pick before that.

And yet we've seen none that can support your claims.

I don't know; this thread and the one before have been very interesting to me on the general subject of how differing fans ("fan" short for "fanatic") view the same videotape in radically different ways, with seemingly no way to come to even the most basic agreements and disputing every possible inference.
 

It should be a wake up call for you regarding your own inability to let your personal bias be swayed by verifiable evidence. Sadly that isn't likely to happen.

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

Outside of Dontre saying "I fucked all of your moms!", I'm not sure how Dontre started that incident.

Class of 2010.

M Man's picture

Pretty simple; by making the first physical post-whistle extracurricular contact.

luckynutz's picture

Sounds like he is taking this harder than anyone outside of Ohio State circles would expect. it was an emotional knee jerk reaction on his part, and one he is showing extreme remorse for. I'm digging the leadership and togetherness shown by his fellow linemates in helping him to overcome this. Was it a bad situation? Yes. But everyone makes mistakes, and the fact that those around him are helping to pick him up shows why this team is a special group. They know who marcus hall is, and refuse to allow one misstep define him as a person and player.

Grande Gustavo's picture

I still think the Double Birds of Destruction is one of my favorite moments in this rivalry.

The answer may not be at the bottom of a bottle, but it never hurts to check. 

Travis's picture

Marcus, you are going to be immortalized for the hate between these two schools.
 
And it was a blessing in disguise because Elflein got valuable experience, ESPECIALLY IN THE GAME!
 
Shame he had to miss the game, but it's ok bud this will be talked about every year from now on as one of the better moments of OSU-TTUN hate.

They need a 2 to tie, a 3 to win it; Sylvester for threeeee... OOOOOOOOOHHHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHH WITH FIVE POINT ONE TO GO!!!

Toilrt Paper's picture

Marcus Hall and Dontre Wilson will come up BIG in the Title Game, It's just the way they are.

ScarletNGrey01's picture

Seven Michigan players surrounded our smallest player, with the intention of intimidating him.  I'm not going so far as to imply it was intentional, but Dontre is a dynamic, potentially game changing player.  Who knows what would have happened if Hall and Wilson had stayed in the game, perhaps the drama would have been gone at the end of the game with the bucks comfortably in the lead.  These are 17 - 22 year old kids out there under the spotlight playing a smashmouth sport against their hated rivals.  The people expressing their mock indignation  about this are the same hypocrites that are breathing a sigh of relief that Jameis Winston escaped from rape charges after Florida police sat on the investigation for a year or that the money trail for Johnny Manziel's autograph signing cottage industry could not be verified.  Give me a break.

The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes

cajunbuckeye's picture

I fat fingered a downvote. Sorry! You made some good points. I'll +1 another post.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

cajunbuckeye's picture

scUM brings out the worst in everyone.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

M Man's picture

That's why they are the Fighting Sioux!
That scene always amazed me; I could never get that kind of dexterity with my hockey gloves on.  They are making better hockey gloves these days, to be able to raise the middle finger so easily.

WhySoSerious's picture

m man. Seems to be you that is swarmed by buckeyes stop while your ahead. No blue.

Metal Guru's picture

I had one of my _ichigan co-workers ask me what I thought of Marcus' salute. I told him I had no problem with it. Having been in The Big Crater for a few Games, I've always wanted to give all those Weasel lovers the finger myself...