Rest of the NCAA not following OSU's lead on multi-year scholarships

April 20, 2013 at 1:55p    by Johnny Ginter    
40 Comments

The above graphic is from a Dispatch article from 2011, and I think is pretty indicative of some of the problems that exist with regard to scholarships in general. Paying players is a discussion that the NCAA will have to have sooner than later, but when you've got people with attitudes like Christine A. Plonsky's (the women's AD at Texas), it's hard to think that the conversation will even be able to get started:

“Who gets a four-year, $120K deal guaranteed at age 17?” Christine A. Plonsky, women’s athletic director at the University of Texas, wrote in an e-mail to The Chronicle. “The last thing young people need right now is more entitlement.”

 

But, according to the Chronicle, former players say the cuts still happen far too frequently — and they add to the excess of player transfers that occur across college athletics. According to the report, the NCAA says about 40 percent of men’s basketball players will not be members of their original school by the end of their sophomore years; that figure is similar in other sports.

40%? Yikes.

 


40 Comments

Comments

steensn's picture

"Come here, if it works out we'll ride your fame and make millions and you won't need your free degree because you're going pro. If it doesn't work out, we'll drop you like a bad habit and you'll have to pay your way through school because you despitely need one to get a job." - win win for the university... gotta love that logic...

William's picture

Going to call bullshit on those projected cost of attendance numbers. They always overestimate that crap, by thousands. I do disagree with a lot of how NCAA athletes are treated as 'amateurs' (because they aren't), but complaining that their scholarship doesn't cover enough is just ridiculous, just like it's ridiculous that universities refuse to guarantee them a 4 year scholarship. 

penult's picture

Going to call bullshit on your bullshit. Research shows scholarship short fall, read for yourself here:
http://assets.usw.org/ncpa/pdfs/6-Billion-Heist-Study_Major-Findings.pdf
 
And you calling out that point is more ridiculous than the point itself. The fair market value for many players is hundreds of thousands more than the scholarship value, meanwhile you are calling out the FACT that scholarship values don't cover total cost with absolutely zero evidence to support your claim.

William's picture

Considering that I pay in-state tuition at Ohio State, I know that attending school this year has not cost me $25,833... 

Tuition this year was $10,037. If you're spending another $14,000 a year in rent/room and board, you have NO CLUE as to how to manage your money. 

yrro's picture

I have to at least somewhat agree. In many ways it depends on what standard of living you feel is reasonable.
I was at pretty much exactly OSU's calculated living expenses in terms of scholarships when I was a freshman there ten years ago, living in the dorms (for what it's worth, living expenses went *down* when I moved out of the dorms). It was more than enough for *me* to live perfectly comfortably... but over the course of a year, I didn't buy any music, new clothes, movies, etc (I was a nerd - I didn't care if my clothes were in fashion, and a few video games a year was enough to keep me entertained). I didn't go out clubbing or buy much alcohol or really hit the party scene much at all. I also didn't have anyone else to support or anything like that. I already owned a computer... I also didn't have a car, and I was on my parents' insurance. I bought used books and shared them with my roommates, then sold them back every term.
So, it's several thousand more than enough to "get by", but I can see many people not being content at all to live as frugally as that. Is that a "shortfall" if your food and board is paid for, but none of your entertainment or fashion is and you don't have a car? Sounds like a pretty subjective judgment to me. I do imagine that your average student *spends* closer to what OSU estimates the cost for a year is.
Of course, that has nothing to do with the fair market value of football/basketball players, nor the amount of additional effort they expend on a sport on top of their classes.

penult's picture

YRRO, you are only correct in that what you and William are saying is subjective. You are basing an opinion on your own anecdotal information (plus, it sounds like neither of you had an athletic scholarship, so you have no anecdotal information on what said scholarship pays for and what you have to pay for out-of-pocket).
That is why I went to empirical data. Critical thinking tells us anecdotal evidence cannot be generalized without many potentially wrong assumptions, and it should not be substituted for empirical data. I find no credence in William's points. Worst of all, it derailed from the main topic to quibble about a minor point.

penult's picture

Add in books in supplies which could approach $2000 a year, and $12000 for housing and food is really not that unreasonable especially near a large college campus where housing/rental costs are at a premium. That doesn't even get to other costs like transportation.
But why don't you just write to the US Deparment of Education National Center for Education Statistics and inform them that your anecdotal estimates prove their empirical data is incorrect.

The United States Department of Education National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) College Navigator was used to locate information for the 2011-2012 academic year regarding expenses included and excluded relative to a “full” athletic scholarship.

Triv's picture

I'm living in a house off campus next year, and it will cost around $7,000 for the entire year including the summer. There is no chance that the athletes are paying $12,000 a year for housing and food. Not to mention, a meal plan is covered in the athletic scholarship, so they don't even really need to buy food. I am 100% certain the cost of one full year at OSU including books is not $25,000

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

FitzBuck's picture

They get some of their clothing provided by the university as well.  Think of all of the branded apparel.  Pollo's, tee shirts,  sweat shirts, jackets, shorts, warm up pants, I think only jeans and underwear is not provided.  

Fitzbuck

Toledo - Ohio's right armpit 

"A troll by any other name is still a troll". 

 

Crimson's picture

Don't be a jerk.
Also, there is empirical evidence that most universities do not make money off of athletics.  How reasonable is it to pay everyone a higher scholarship when it requires cutting the sports that don't make money?

Bucksfan's picture

Are you eating between 6000 - 10,000 calories a day like these athletes?  If not, then you'll need to multiply your food budget by at least 2, maybe 5 to make up the difference.

William's picture

1) Their meal plan is paid for. 
2) They aren't eating 10,000 calories a day. I think you're thinking about Olympic athletes like Michael Phelps, who is going through much more rigorous workouts than any of our football players are. Even guys who compete in the Tour de France consume about 8,000-10,000 calories a day, and again football players aren't doing anything near that rigorous. Could they be eating 5,000-7,000 calories a day? Sure, but their meal plan is PAID FOR. 

Bucksfan's picture

So what if it's paid for?  It's probably only 3 meals a day and it's commons food, and commons portions.  Football players eat 5 times a day.  Did you eat at the commons every time?  Does the meal plan cover protein supplements?  What about energy drinks?
You may have been able to get through college cheaply, just because you lived off of Raman noodles and Nati Light doesn't mean a football player can.

Crimson's picture

They have a nutritionist and individualized snacks as well.

William's picture

Football players last year received the 250 swipe meal plan. Ask any student that attended OSU last year. Unless you're eating 7 meals a day, you aren't running out of swipes. Also they receive snacks from the nutritionist/team table. The football players are well fed...
Also don't take ignorant swipes at me. I don't live off of ramen, but I've been smart enough to realize that I can save money by cooking my own meals. There is no viable reason for why the football players need a larger stipend than they already receive.  

buck-I.8's picture

I spend an outrageous amount of money on alcohol, and my yearly expenses come out to about 20K. 25 grand for OSU is way overstated. 

NC_Buckeye's picture

Fair market value based on what? There is no market by which to determine value. So I'm calling bullshit on your calling bullshit on William's calling bullshit. Faulty logic and bad economics in your statement.
At this point I really hope O'Bannon wins his lawsuit cause this isn't going to end the way pay-for-play advocates are hoping. Big Ten presidents are not going to fall in line with becoming a professional farm system for the NBA & NFL. Watch.

penult's picture

Fair market value is based on a few things (go to ncpanow.org for a full discussion on the methodology found in the full report of their study):

  1. Amount of revenue for the program (e.g., football program revenue)
  2. Amount of revenue of a professional team compared to minimum for a member of said team
  3. Comparison of the ratio of the minimum player salary/team revenue to the revenues of programs in college and how that projects to each of their player's values

The only faulty logic is your assumptions, asking me a question and answering it yourself. NCAA athletics is a $6 billion dollar industry. And I can't even fathom what you think is bad economics in my statements, especially considering I am the only one who has brought objective, empirical data to this discussion.

NC_Buckeye's picture

If the court rules on this from an economic perspective, they will undo NCAA/NFL/NBA requirements as to draft eligibility and that's it. A player can decide to go straight to the NFL/NBA from high school or at any time during college.
That is a fair market. Colleges continue at the amateur level as is their desire. Players can elect to get paid for their abilities and forgo their degree.
BTW citing the website of the organization that wants to become the collective bargaining agent for college athletes kind of negates the validity of your arguments. 

Buckeyeneer's picture

But, but, but OSU and Urban Meyer are cheaters who will cut every possible corner to get an edge . . . .

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University

OSUinFl's picture

Saban doesn't not 4 years guarantee  scholarships. He want get rid of any player anytime not performing on the field.

BTwrestle04's picture

English, motherf*****.... Do you speak it?!

BuckeyeVet's picture

@BTWRESTLE04 - We actually have a number of fans for whom English is not their 1st language. As long as we can decipher it, it's all cool.
And P.S. - I'm not down voting either of you.

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."          - Groucho Marx 
 

OSUinFl's picture

No. Your a typical American. a racist and you probably think your so much better the everybody. I bet you I make alot more money then you will ever see in a life time.

Hovenaut's picture

Easy....

You're heading down a bumpy road there. Not the best time for those words.

"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

FitzBuck's picture

Agreed HOV

Fitzbuck

Toledo - Ohio's right armpit 

"A troll by any other name is still a troll". 

 

BuckeyeVet's picture

@OSUINFL - His comment may have been rude or inappropriate, but in no way was it racist. You're welcome here.

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."          - Groucho Marx 
 

USMC11917's picture

Osu4life, that you?

buck-I.8's picture

"No. You're* a typical American;* a racist, and you probably think you're* so much better than* everybody. I bet you that* I make a lot* more money than* you will ever see in a lifetime*" 
Fixed it for you. 

Hovenaut's picture

"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

FitzBuck's picture

So I want to ask a question.  Why would a kid that's offered a 4 year scholarship from OSU pick another university that has a history of "cutting" players I.e. Bama?  Is it...
a.) they don't think it will happen to them.
b.) they think they will make the NFL no matter what.
c.) the "signing bonus" is better.
d.) they don't plan on graduating anyway.
e.) all of the above.
f.) other

Fitzbuck

Toledo - Ohio's right armpit 

"A troll by any other name is still a troll". 

 

BuckeyeVet's picture

@Fitz - I'm betting on (a) & (d).

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."          - Groucho Marx 
 

OSUinFl's picture

I think this 2013-2014 sec will be offering 4 year scholarships. So if your a red shirt freshman Saban could drop you like a sack of potatoes or any other loophole  aka gray shirt.
Sec schools believe if you on a guarantee 4 year scholarship players slide by and not work hard. Will put there 4 years and  get there diploma.

OSUinFl's picture

Saban: Some Bama players "too comfortable" After all turnovers in the spring game. I thought they would have more then 78,000 attendance being there going for a 3 peat.
 

gravey's picture

I couldn't find the original story, but Hawk and Mangold explained how they got by quite comfortably on the extra stipend they got....it was basically, "don't waste the left-over money you get" and you can do just fine with the scholly money.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-11958192.html

xFactor11's picture

Just knowing some of my friends who are on scholarships to division 1 programs and no where near the caliber of Ohio State, I would say they live very comfortably. Disregarding the argument about whether they deserved to be paid or not they definitely have enough to pay for school and a very nice living for a college kid after that.

alust2013's picture

The NCAA should mandate that all scholarships be 4 years and cannot be revoked due to performance. Problem solved. Yes, universities/conferences/the NCAA make money off of the players, but they get both a free education (more emphasis should be placed on them actually doing well) and exposure to go pro. The guys they are really making money off of are the guys that are most likely to go pro. Considering that I have to pay the school a decent bit of money every year to have the opportunity to make a tenth or less of what these guys will make, how are they being taken advantage of and I'm not? I would be fine if they eased up a little on what is permissible/impermissible to give to an athlete, but I think paying players outright is unreasonable. If they got a share of the money made from jersey sales, that's cool too. No one is making them play football, and in a market where the potential for reward is so high, it's going to take some work to get there. I think it's best the way it is so they have to learn money management so they don't end up broke after they are done in the pros or if they have to get a regular job instead. Pardon the rant, that's just my opinion. I'm not going to be mad if you disagree, that's just my perspective as a college student without a whole lot of money.

...and Michigan still sucks.

Crimson's picture

I think it's best the way it is so they have to learn money management so they don't end up broke after they are done in the pros

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they don't learn that anyway ;-)

pjtobin's picture

Wow. I would have never thought that this topic would get so heated! I did not attend college. I did attend a four year apprentice program for finishing drywall, painting, and other boring crap. I was raising a family of my own. And had to miss a week of work once a week, six months a year. No pay. So gas to get there,drinks, lunch, and all other expenses were on me. Plus my regular bills. By my third year it was a little easier because I made more money on the hour. So I could prepare before classes started. No one helped me. No one paid for extras. Just my schooling. And I am thankful that they did. If these kids can't afford it. Or are really struggling then something needs to be done. I was able to at least make some money. They don't have time to. These schools make enough money to cover their costs. Otherwise they wouldn't be building and building, and remodeling something everyday of every year. I think they need to help all kids. Not just student athletes. 

Bury me in my away jersey, with my buckeye blanket. A diehard who died young. Rip dad. 

pjtobin's picture

Do the schools give out the student loans? And what is a typical interest rate for one of them? 

Bury me in my away jersey, with my buckeye blanket. A diehard who died young. Rip dad.