Thursday Skull Session

By Chris Lauderback on February 7, 2013 at 6:00a

Urban done did it again

Last year, after two months on the job, Urban pulled a 4th ranked recruiting class out of his hat in one of his most masterful acts in a career full of shining moments. 

Yesterday, Meyer and staff were back at it, hauling in an even better class, ranked anywhere from #1 to #3 nationally, including a ridiculous three for three mark with national blue chips announcing their intentions on Monday night or National Signing Day. 

The Dontre Wilson commitment on Monday night, as tasty as it was, turned out to be an appetizer ahead of James Clark and Vonn Bell pledging allegiance to Fort Meyer yesterday morning. 

The Bell signing was especially sweet as it gave the Buckeyes a five-star commit while showcasing just how hard Meyer and his assistants, in this instance Everett Withers, worked to deliver the goods. From Lesmerises:  

While it was pure mastery for Urban and company to go three for three with three grand slams, the unexpected fallout of such spoils was the unforeseen issue of running out of schollies when one was targeted for stud punter Johnny Townsend. 

The full story on Townsend has yet to be written but according to Alex, who straight killed it all day long, it's highly possible Urban didn't foresee such dominance in the final hours. Thus, Townsend's offer evaporated – especially when you consider Meyer did not want to subject Ohio State to public ridicule by oversigning – though it's still very possible a scholarship could come available in the near-term. Bottom line, the door isn't officially closed on Townsend so we'll just have to wait and see how things play out. 

Either way, you have to be ecstatic with the class especially when taking into account Meyer was hamstrung by the NCAA's scholarship restrictions levied as a result of Tatgate. As Meyer noted, those sanctions loomed large as he lost the ability to take three more swings at bringing elite talent to Columbus, swings that could've produced "three more Braxton Millers or John Simons." 

What a great day it was to be a Buckeye. Again, mad props to Alex, Miles and Derek for their efforts to keep the residents of 11W in the know. 

THE B1G CHILL. As expected, it was truly the B1G Two and Little Ten as Ohio State and Michigan dominated the conference's recruiting efforts. 

In Scout's rankings, Ohio State held down the #1 slot and Michigan placed second, but the next B1G squad didn't check in until Nebraska at #11 with no other conference school making their top 20. 

Rivals had Ohio State in the two-hole and Michigan 5th but Nebraska fell to 17th and the next B1G school didn't show up until Michigan State at 38th, behind the likes of Baylor and Virginia. 

BTN's Tom Dienhart took a stab at summarizing the league's day and as you'd expect, he had Ohio State in the top spot, noting no conference school signed as many defensive players (15) as the Buckeyes. 

Dienhart obviously had Michigan ranked 2nd, noting the Wolverines signed the most players with 27, led by RB Derrick Green and QB Shane Morris. Penn State made some hay, hauling in six linemen on each side of the ball along with #2 ranked QB Christian Hackenberg. 

Ranking the top players by position, Jalin Marshall landed the top WR nod while Joey Bosa (top DE) and Mike Mitchell (top LB) also gained acclaim. Townsend would be the top punter if things eventually shake out. 

Ranking schools by positional grouping, Urban earned Dienhart's top receivers/tight ends on offense while sweeping the defensive line, linebackers and secondary position groups. 

Random: I also learned Bosa is the nephew of former Ohio State linebacker/rush end Erik Kumerow. 

WELCOME TO THE MACHINE. To the surprise of no one, the SEC once again dominated the national recruiting rankings. Looking just at the Rivals team rankings, SEC programs held down six of the top 10 spots with Alabama taking the top spot followed by Florida (4th), LSU (6th), Ole Miss (7th), Auburn (8th) and Texas A&M (10th). 

With Georgia (12th), South Carolina (16th), Vanderbilt (19th) and Tennessee (20th) all making the cut, the SEC placed 10 programs total in the top 20. 

Hell, Kentucky ranked 27th after hiring a coach two months ago that had never even stepped a foot on campus before taking the job

New head coach Bret Bielema led Arkansas to the 13th highest rated SEC class, good enough for 31st nationally. 

Conversely, the B1G's 12th-rated class, Jerry Kill's third at Minnesota, held down the 60th spot and five B1G schools ranked anywhere from Illinois at #46 to the Wisconsin Badgers in the 56-hole. 

Pretty much sums it up

AN INEXACT SCIENCE. For all the hype that comes with NSD, invariably, there will be a ton of kids that either over or underperform compared to the ranking bestowed upon them coming out of high school. 

With that, Chris Huston outlined five players that either evolved to be significantly overrated or underrated by the scouting services since 2002. 

Interestingly, no Buckeyes made either list. The overrated list is obviously littered with busts while the underrated kids are names you are inherently more familiar with. At the top of the underrated list is Johnny Manziel, a three-star product Rivals listed as the 14th best dual-threat quarterback in 2011. Even crazier, Justin Blackmon was tabbed as the country's 91st-best receiver in the 2008 crop while QB Collin Klein was a three-star sporting just one college offer back in 2008. 

Naturally, the list had me thinking about Buckeye commits that were worthy of mention and thankfully, more candidates for the underrated list came to mind with only Mike D'Andrea (5-star, '02) and Curtis Grant (5-star, '11) jumping off the page as no-doubters for the overrated group. 

Looking at the sleepers, the Buckeyes boast a slew of three-star guys such as AJ Hawk ('02), Santonio Holmes ('02), James Laurinaitis ('05), Malcolm Jenkins ('05), John Simon ('09) and Bradley Roby ('10). Which of those would be your ultimate Buckeye sleeper-recruit since 2002, or would you go off the grid? 

GROWING PAINS. With NSD in the rear view, the conference athletic directors (Sunday) and head coaches (Monday) will meet at B1G headquarters in the coming days to discuss a myriad of topics including the subject of how many league games should be played once Maryland and Rutgers join the fray, and as a result, when those games should start. 

Northwestern athletic director Jim Phillips took a shot at breaking down the pros and cons of eight, nine and ten-game schedules:

Pluses of 8: Allows teams to play up to eight home games — generating more revenue — and pad their records against weak nonconference foes. That maximizes the number of Big Ten teams that qualify for a bowl game. Every coach, it seems, prefers this.

Minuses of 8: Minnesota is so desperate to rack up wins that it canceled a home-and-home series with North Carolina. Over the next three years, the Gophers plan to play UNLV, Western Illinois, San Jose State (twice), Eastern Illinois, Middle Tennessee and South Dakota State. That's bad for fans, TV partners and the conference's image.

Pluses of 9: The 14-team schedule would yield 63 conference games, up from the current 48. That extra inventory would help Delany pull more cash from potential TV partners such as ESPN/ABC and Fox and enhance the Big Ten Network's schedule. The Big 12 and Pac-12 currently play nine conference games.


Minuses of 9: Half of the teams would host five games; the other half, four. Said Fitzgerald: "The stats show that around 70 percent of Big Ten games are won at home. I'd be against 4/5. To me as a coach, that doesn't make sense."

Pluses of 10: More compelling games and a truer champion. A better chance for a player from, say, Rutgers, to experience a game at Nebraska. Fewer seven-figure payouts to cupcake opponents.


Minuses of 10: Fewer teams reach bowls. More injuries would be inevitable. Fewer interesting nonconference matchups because Big Ten teams would resist home-and-home series.

Where do you stand?

JUST THE FAX, MA'AM. Ten thoughts on Craft, Burke and Michigan's win over Ohio State... Moms has some quicks... F5... Do you even lift Bama-bro?... Ranking the SEC's five best recruiting classes of the last 10 years... State by state tobacco tax per pack of cigarettes... The Rich St. Bridge... Randy Edsall's most death-defying recruiting story ever


Comments Show All Comments

cplunk's picture

Wasn't Troy Smith a three star? If so, that's my sleeper guy.
Although I'm not sure if he was class of 02 or 01 either.
Maybe I'll just go with AJ Hawk to be safe.

Chris Lauderback's picture

Not sure what the other services might have listed him as but Rivals had him as a 4-star in the '02 class. I used them since their archive was easiest to search by season.


shadybuck's picture

scout had troy as 4* #15 QB, my most underrated picks would be kirk barton (scout 3* #101 OL, rivals 3* #60 OT), brian robiskie (scout 2* NR WR, rivals 3* #61 WR), and chimdi chekwa (scout 2* NR CB, rivals 3* #45 CB)

shade98's picture

I know I might get heat for this but if this is true about the Townsend kid this is bad. We blast USC and other schools for doing this to kids and this is no different. A kid has been committed for months and on the biggest day of his football life up to this point he is told the day of we may not have a spot for you. I know some of you will say he's a punter and make other ridiculous excuses for this screw up but doing this to a kid is bush league. Yesterday was amazing but this is BS and I hope they fix it.

kevinfrenchfry's picture

I agree honestly, and of course we don't know the whole exact story, but it is sad one of our most "commited," if you will, prospects can't even get his schollie worked out.  All he wants is to be with Urban.  I'm sure the coaches probably werent expecting the success they had, which gives them a little bit of a pass, but regardless, I hope we get that kid in S & G, if nothing else becuase you know he wants to be a part of this program.

hodge's picture

This was mentioned in the forum, but it's entirely plausible that his offer was conditional from the start and that Townsend knew and was okay with this when he committed. It's not like we won't have any more attrition, he's just staving off the negative publicity of oversigning while he figures out what spot Townsend is going to fit into. 

kevinfrenchfry's picture

that certainly seems possible especially with a punter, still though I hope this kid gets what he wants in the end, a chance to play under coach meyer

bukyze's picture

I highly doubt it was a conditional offer.  As Alex said, Urbz didn't expect to land all three, and got caught with his pants down around his ankles.  I'm sure it was a tough discussion he had to have with Johnny.   It really blows for Townsend.  Of course WE and the coaching staff know there will be at least one player no longer with the program by fall, but the Townsends have never been in this position before.  It's a big leap of faith to trust a coach in assuming you'll get a scholarship before the season starts.  I really hope Townsend stays and everything works out for him sooner rather than later.

penult's picture

As Alex said: it is a guess and certainly not fact.
He also commented later that with UF involved he can see it may have really been family issues. Geez.

buckeyedude's picture

I do feel bad for this kid. Hoping Urban figures this one out.  



rjsmitty's picture

No way Johnnys scholly was conditional. What Alex said yesterday is spot on. Urbs and Co. dint expect to go 3 for 3 on Wilson, Clark and Bell. Urban will get it done for this kid and his dream of being a Buckeye will come true. So he didnt get his 5 minutes of fame on signing day but I'm sure it will be water under the bridge when he's holding a crystal ball in the near future. It's all good!!

"I don't wanna coach average! To hell with that!"  -UFM

Normal Buck's picture

I agree with you.  Thinking  about it on the way home yesterday just gave me a bad vibe.

cplunk's picture

Agreed, we don't know the whole story though. The offer could have been conditional or something like that.
If what we're hearing is true, I don't like it. I hope everything works out (i.e. a player that was going to leave anyway does so early so there's a scholarship for Townsend) soon, but even if it does I can't say I'm happy with jerking a kid around like that.
On the one hand I can understand how that could happen- scholarship offers are a numbers game and you can be surprised by an unexpected success- but on the other hand you've got a good kid that committed a long time ago and now has a major life event on hold.

Red Shirt Ensign's picture

If he had a commitable offer then shame on him for waiting (as a punter) till 4pm or even 12pm to sign.... Joey Bosa was in at lijke 7:30... but know a punter wants a signing ceremony... c'mon man!

"Captain, over here, I've found someth... AHHHH!!!!!!"


btalbert25's picture

He could of sent it in on the stroke of midnight on signing day eve/signing day and they likely wouldn't have accepted it.

WC Buckeye's picture

That is exactly what I thought when I read about this. As a punter, I would have to be thinking, "I'm sending that thing in @ 07:00:01 in front of EVERYONE!".

The only thing that's new in the world is the history that we have forgotten.

bucksk1n's picture

It's a fair comment but I prefer this to what Urban could do.  The B1G allows schools to oversignn by 3 and he could definitely sign the kid, knowing that at least one current player is going to do something dumb and leave the program by August.  He doesn't want to do this.
The irony would be to lose him to Alabama who almost certainly is oversigned by at least 5 given their past history.
It's not an ideal situation but until the NCAA closes the loopholes for everyone, Urban is going to need to play close to the sun to compete with teams in the SEC.  He will get burnt a few times if everything goes right.  Under Tressel, there were many times when we had to decide between 3 recruits with only 2 spots so we only made 2 offers.  The frustrating part was not knowing if the player we didn't offer, would have accepted while seeing the others decide to go somewhere else.
I'm sure Urban will do whatever he needs to do to make this right but it's nice to get more players to accept than we expected for once.  #urbanmeyerproblems

Catch 5's picture

You would prefer that the kid not sign at all after being committed for that long than have the team "oversigned"?  That seems a little out of whack to me.  The way I see it, he would be better served by oversigning if his offer was pulled (which I don't believe happened)
Per the father, the offer was unchanged.  That means it was their descion to not sign, not Urban's.  The only logical explaination is that he had a conditional greyshirt offer with the assurance that it would most likely not be needed.  When the class filled up unexpectedly, that caused them to step back and re-evaluate.  If this is the case, there really isn't anything here to get caught up about if you look at it fairly, even if the kid signs.
There is no indication from Alabama that an offer has been extended to this kid, so if he does choose to go there, it is as a walk-on.  As for Bama being oversigned, that may depend on how you look at it.  Yes, they are over (by about 8 by my count) as of NSD, but they haven't had any announced attrition yet.  If there are 2 or 3 redshirt Jrs who are set to graduate, 3 or 4 players that have told Saban they intend on transferring after the end of the academic year, and a couple of players willing to greyshirt, would you believe that this class could have been signed under the B10 rule? 

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

rdubs's picture

Wrong the B1G can only oversign on signing day by 3, so the RS Juniors would have already have to have graduated or left the program, the grayshirts would have already been decided as well as the transfers.  That is not the case.  They are over by at least 8 I believe which is 5 more than the B1G limit.

Catch 5's picture

That is the popular view of the B10 rule, but not actually the case.  Yes, they require a coach to stay under the number, but that number is determined by the coach and is based on how many spots he will have available by the end of the signing period (fall classes).  Thus if Saban is aware of such events as I described above, he could easily sign this class under the B10 rule.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

rdubs's picture

That is not how I understand the rule.  My understanding is that when LsOI are accepted the coach can only go over by 3 at that point.  Maybe someone with more knowledge or a link to the rule can help, but my understanding is that Alabama is within the SEC rules, but not the B1G rules.

Catch 5's picture

I've never been able to find a link to the B10's actual rules, but here is where I got it from - straight from the horse's mouth if you will:

“The reason the rule is there is simple — don’t offer what you don’t have to give,” said Chad Hawley, Big Ten associate commissioner for compliance. “What our rule does is make (a member) institution really plan ahead to get a solid handle on the number of available scholarships leading into an upcoming academic year. Institutes must evaluate each student athlete’s eligibility; see who’s transferring, going pro or just leaving the program, and who’s financial aid will not be renewed.

“Once they go through that process and determine the slots they have available, they can offer three over.

Is that what you thought it was?
If anyone has anything contridicting that, I would be very interested in seeing it.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

NH-IO's picture

I think we may be being a bit naive about this type of situation.  Urban is not a saint and recruiting is cutthroat.  As a head coach your job depends on it and hard decisions have to be made.  I think there are good ways and bad ways of doing this and hopefully we are doing it the good way - being honest with kids about exactly how firm their scholarship offer is, explaining possibilities, etc.  By the way I believe that Taivon Jacobs was also affected by this situation.  He may not have been told that  his scholarship was going to be pulled, but I imagine that he was told that, look we got some guys coming in, you might not get a lot of playing time here, you might want to reconsider.  It's unfortunate, but this is the reality of the situation.  This is, of course, further complicated by the kids that want to wait to announce and hold out until national signing day so they can make a big splash or whatever, that really puts the coaches in a tough situation.

yrro's picture

I agree 100%. I hope they work things out. Some of the stories of recruits getting ditched when someone bigger came in at Florida are my biggest misgivings with Urban as the face of our program.

Chief B1G Dump's picture

Agreed.  I hope there's something we don't know about this and this is all on the up and up and Urban has been honest with this kid all along.  I know if an opposing coach did this, I would talk tons of smack.  

cinserious's picture

Personally, I don't think Meyer and staff would push Townsend out the door just because he is a punter. I know we don't plan on punting a whole lot but dude IS the best punter in the country and seriously, how many hybrid RB/slot receivers do you need?  However you do need the only scholarship punter on the roster for '13 and one thats been commited for so long. I think his family got to him and pressured him to stay close to home. I don't see the harm in OSU (possibly) going over the limit by one scholly and putting someone on the track team or something.  JMHO.

One day I will valiantly become a political prisoner of 11W jail.

Abe Froman's picture

I wonder when NSD actually became a part of people's life such as March Madness or CFB bowl season?   Not that it is quite as ingrained in our culture yet, but I can remember a few years ago that you would wait and see how the teams did in SI or the paper.  Do you think it is because of the penetration of the Internet as a media source?  
Great recruiting story for Edsall.  Also, great pic of the bridge. 
I thought craft was fouled on the second play, but it was clean enough on the first.  Refs should not look at the clock.  They should always be consistent.

Basking in the wake of mediocrity.....

btalbert25's picture

I remember the year Mo C came to Ohio State on signing day they had some televised announcements on ESPN.  I think the popularity of college football, combined with the growing popularity of the websites like Rivals over the years, along with the Army All American bowl being televised with kids making their decisions really got recruiting popular. It also comes in the middle of the off season when there's nothing to talk about.  Then with social media and the ability to follow every word the kid says it's really become an obsession. 
It really is the most over rated day in sports in my opinion.  Everyone is going nuts about Ole Miss' class and talking how about in 2 years their team is going to be great, but in reality, while they have added great players, they have some many holes, that the 3, 5 star and 9, 4 star players they added won't be nearly enough to plug all the holes.  Talking to casual fans though, they think Ole Miss is going to be  a force. 
It has really been blown out of proportion though. I remember when Beanie gave a verbal at the end of his Jr year it was unheard of for a recruit to be in that early.  John Simon really jumped on board early too.  They barely had rankings out for the next class.  Now they are ranking the 2015 class already, and people are talking about 2015 recruits.  It's crazy. 

shadybuck's picture

some very good points, especially about ole miss, yea they got a bunch of highly ranked guys, but i would only expect 3 or 4 of all those guys tops to be contributors as freshmen, and you also have to consider that unfortunately about 30% of guys in about every class do not pan out as the experts expect.
I think the reason NSD is such a big deal to me personally is because it is the day that we can finally lock up all the guys that have been committed to us for so long that we do not have to worry about anyone poaching, recruiting is not a pretty business and to be able to finally say with confidence that this guy and that guy are coming to our school is the biggest thing for me.

kevinfrenchfry's picture

i kind of feel bad saying this but it is what it is. Jerry Kill has to go, now.  He's just not going to be able to bring in any top talents, plus his history with seizures is a huge negative for that program, not that that is his fault.  College football is a big business and they need to nab a good coach from a small coach, preferably younger.  What they're doing now isn't working and its gonna make paying that new stadium off take that much longer if they don't put some meat in the seats.

chicagobuckeye's picture

I strongly disagree. I mean he takes a team from 2-10 to a bowl game this season. If you've ever been up to Minneapolis in the winter you will know its a pretty hard sell weather wise to begin with. Then you have to factor in the state of the program and the lack of elite talent they currently have. If you're a 3* recruit you may look, but in the end will probably go somewhere else. He was the first coach from NIU to make them relevent. I think if you give him 2 more years they will start to become a more releveant team, and their recruiting ranking will go up. He won't bring any national titles to UMN, but he will definately make them a perrenial bowl team, and nab a 4* recruit every once in a while.

oregonianbuckeye's picture

I get the fact that Urban may want to avoid the scarlett letter (the negative kind) of oversigning (to some). Doesn't it also bring in negative publicity if people think that he 'pulled' an offer of a scholarship to a guy that has been committed for over six months? Is that really the lesser of two evils?

buckeyedude's picture

Excellent point, Oregonian. I think, at this point, it would be better to honor Townsend's offer. It's the honorable thing. I don't think Urbs wants to get a reputation like Les Miles or some of the others down there. I think most will cut him some slack for this one time.
Which leads me to my next question: Does anybody know how many kids OSU has lost over the last ten years or so, and how many in each of those years, to transfers, etc.?
I mean, I'm thinking it's almost guaranteed at least one of the 80 some kids is going to transfer, opening up a schollie for Townsend.



Catch 5's picture

First, Urban was oversigned by 2 on NSD last year - so he isn't concerned with that tag (The spots were opened up fairly quickly so there is no reason to suspect it wasn't planned beforehand).  Based on quotes from the father - that nothing had changed with regard to the offer - it is more likely that he was offered a conditional greyshirt - and probably told that it would not be necessary as they didn't expect to get everyone on the board.  When they did and the possibility of needing to use the greyshirt increased (I would be surprised if noone else didn't leave by fall) he got queezy.  BTW, this is my theory about what happened with the two guys that decommitted from Bama at the last minute last year because they had a greyshirt offer.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

Earle's picture

I can only surmise Urban knew definitively that 2 guys were leaving last year and it just hadn't become official yet, and this time he knows one or more spots will open up, but doesn't want to commit the scholarshp until it is definite.

Snarkies gonna snark. 

bucksk1n's picture

This is one thing I like about the 4 year scholarship the NCAA allowed us to start giving in 2012 vs. the 1 year renewable scholarship that Alabama is still giving.  If a player transfers, they did it because they felt it was in their best interest and not because the coach threatened to pull the scholarship.  That's because the coach can't pull the scholarship if the player goes to practice, stays clear of the law, and keeps his grades up.  
I assume there are frank conversations going on with a few players and we will hear somehting soon.  There's a few kids that signed the last two years that need to consider their options if they ever want to see the field.  If they are happy being a part of Ohio State as a scout team player for the rest of their career then there is little Urban could do (technically he could make life miserable for the kid but I like to think he's above that).

Catch 5's picture


It clearly states the offer is for a four-year scholarship - as all their offers now.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

chicagobuckeye's picture

He didn't know that 2 kids were defininately leaving. I think he assumed, new coach, new rules someone will probably leave, but I don't think he had names in mind. He claimed he came in and started anew with every player.

Earle's picture

Maybe not definitively (yes, that was my word, but perhaps I overstated my case), but he had been on the job for 2 months and surely had a pretty good idea, and I think there were some discipline issues.  I don't remember the exact timing, but it wasn't that long after NSD that a couple of guys left the program.

Snarkies gonna snark. 

joethejester's picture

Agree 100% with your statement until you get to the gray shirt thing.  Ohio State needs a punter next year.  Meyer said the situation concerned him.  Why, if a spot is opening up at somepoint b/c of attrition, would they be asking him to Gray Shirt.  Townsend's father said that OSU hadn't pulled the offer and he had a NOLI to sign.  Everyone is speculating that OSU screwed this kid over, when there isn't much to point in that direction.  We are at 82 and we unexpectedly got an extra one or two on NSD.  I predict that by june we will be in the 70s.  At least 3 kids will leave and I bet the coaches already know one more.  They want this punter and they want him now.  No gray shirt.

Catch 5's picture

Why, if a spot is opening up at somepoint b/c of attrition, would they be asking him to Gray Shirt.

Because it hasn't been finally decided yet.  Say a handfull of guys have indicated that they will transfer if they don't crack the 2-deep by summer.  It is an extremely long shot that all of them would reach their goal, and so highly probable that most of these guys will transfer over the summer.  The conditional greyshirt means that the guy will use it only if needed - which is not likely.  If the staff worked this deal out with him some time ago, but hinted that the space was expected to be available before signing day, it is understandable that he has reservations given how NSD transpired.  Noone has been screwed over in this scenario and he will be available for the next season 99 times out of 100.  It is, however, oversigning - though done responsibly - albeit to a much less degree than Alabama, but the same process.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

LouGroza's picture

I think Townsend, as a punter with a full ride offer, was told of the situation in advance. Also think he was told he would get that full ride as attrition was right around the corner. The family is just being cautious in weighing the options. Urban has been there before. As meticulous as he is, I simply cannot believe this was a fluke occurrence and the staff was left holding their jocks, never imagining this could happen.

Red Shirt Ensign's picture

That's just it... he's gonna get him in, by the letter of teh law and then he won't be accused of oversigning... or of renigging on the offer.  We weree blessed with an embarrassment of riches yesterday... but this is a consequence of being THAT successful.  Yesterday Bell was a Vol and Clark was going to Florida!  we got them both, but we have to shuffle teh deck and see what card falls out first.  between now and fall there will be one.... there probably is one they already know about... its just got to play out first.

"Captain, over here, I've found someth... AHHHH!!!!!!"


Buckeye414's picture

Nick Mangold was a 2* I believe.  Considering his NFL career I would throw him up near the top.

-Go Bucks!

steensn's picture

Very good one!

Chris Lauderback's picture

I don't know what the other services had him listed as but Rivals had Mangold as a 4-star in the 2002 class.

shadybuck's picture

out of 149 ranked offensive linemen per the scout index, nick mangold was not ranked or even given a star value, rivals lists him as 4* #3 C in the country, maybe scout just missed him, recruiting certainly was not what it is today back then

bucksk1n's picture

As I recall, no one had rated most of the 5 linemen JT offered at camp that summer and a few of the services never bothered to check them out since he locked them up so early.  I remember most of our fans were up in arms about it but we consoled ourselves that the staff watched all the kids in practice and offered the best 5 they saw.  I wish they had continued that practice throughout the 2000s as we let a lot of good linemen get away.
This was probably the last year that these services ignored players as most of them were regional in nature until the early 2000s.  The rise of Rivals and Scout along with database improvements made comprehensive national lists feasible.
I'm sure Kurelic and Lemming had them rated as they were the main Midwest 'experts' at the time.

Alex's picture

Who knows maybe it is a personal issue? Especially with hometown Florida now in the mix. All I know this is a very strange development and I'll do my best to get on top of it. Really wanted Johnny in this class.

RedStorm45's picture

Hard to believe it's the scholarship/greyshirt issue considering we were technically over-signed last year.  Maybe there isn't definite attrition coming this time around though.

Dr. House's picture

while Urb was closing and making me feel feelings of joy and happiness. Here was what I was most impressed about yesterday (I may take some heat from this) Penn State's class was in the top 50. With everything they have against them they still landed a top 50 class. They brought in(depending what siite you are looking at) two 5*s and two 4*s along with a boat load of 3* blue chips. Penn State should be brought to their knees yet they out recruited a majority of the Big Ten. Whatever BOB is shoveling the kids are buying.

BuckeyeAsylum's picture

Rich St bridge picture, that's just one clean hell of a good picture. It feels like something from a future "enlightened" era of life where things are perfectly peaceful. Just wow.

Hovenaut's picture

Wow....Bosa is Eric Kumerow's nephew. Good bloodlines.

I wouldn't say Mike D'Andrea was overrated, never really got the chance to live up to the rating as he couldn't overcome the injuries.

Also hoping Grant can figure things out, I know they can't all be stars but nonetheless.

Barney's picture

Did you take that picture of the bridge?

Set your gearshift for the high gear of your soul!

Chris Lauderback's picture

No. Trust me, I would've taken full credit if so.

Barney's picture


Set your gearshift for the high gear of your soul!

Earle's picture

To continue with the Pink Floyd theme:  "We're so happy we can hardly count!"

Snarkies gonna snark. 

DefendOhio's picture

We are very lucky to have such great coverage here on 11w. You guys killed it yesterday! Well done and thank you!

osu07asu10's picture

You heard it here first....Withers to an $EC school next season

CJDPHoS Board of Directors // Best friends with Homey Hache

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osu07asu10's picture

HAHAHA! I didn't click the Pootie link at the start of the article but I definitely was saying in my  mind as I read (POOTIE DONE DID IT AGAIN!!!), I circled back at the end and burst out laughing. 
Well done Chris!

CJDPHoS Board of Directors // Best friends with Homey Hache

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Poison nuts's picture

Te ma ty.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

osu07asu10's picture

Wa da ta my dammies!

CJDPHoS Board of Directors // Best friends with Homey Hache

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Buckeye_in_SEC_country's picture

I think the B1G schedule should model the SEC...  I know, I know... We all hate the SEC, but I like their schedule set up.  When we get to 14 teams we should go to a 6-1-1 conference schedule...

  • We would play all 6 opponents in our division.
  • We would have 1 rotating game with a new opponent from the other division each year
  • The final conference game would be a set game against an opponent in the other division each year to develop a rivalry
  • This would leave 4 non-conference games to be played (game strength is the program's choice)

Example:  Tennessee plays Bama every year... Last year they played Miss St as their rotating game... Next year their rotating game is Auburn.
This system would give 3-4 home games in conference and 3-4 home games out of conference. 

chicagobuckeye's picture

I hate this model. Now I'm not looking to get an easier schedule, but look at the difference between Alabama, and LSU. Alabama plays the 6 in division and one rotating, plus Tenn. LSU does the same thing except plays Florida instead. In the BIG model, assuming the divisions stay the same (I know they won't) OSU would have to play Michigan every year and Wisconsin could have to play Minnesota, or Iowa. While we have a harder SOS, we may not get the chance to go to the BIG championship game due to the fact that Wisconsin has a practically guaranteed win every year, while we have to play Michigan every year.

rdubs's picture

We may wind up in the same division as ttun though.  Then it would be a little more interesting who the set game is (probably Nebraska or Illinois).

Poison nuts's picture

That Randy Edsall story is crazy. Belle Glade is as 'back-woods' as a city could possibly be...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

Pam's picture

Santonio Holmes home town.

cinserious's picture

and a slew of other NFL talent!

One day I will valiantly become a political prisoner of 11W jail.

okiebuck's picture

Nice trivia on Bosa being Eric Kumerow's nephew; Kumerow signed with OSU as a QB prospect out of Illinois but with a growth spurt and hitting the weight room he became a DE; and a good one at that.
B1G should play 8 conference games; and 11W Staff did an awesome job yesterday!

"Fate has cards that it don't want to show"

OSUNeedles's picture

Not sure that recruiting services even existed back then, but how about Terry Glenn going from walk-on to Biletnikoff as an underrated award winner?

Nappy's picture

I'm torn on the number of conference games we should play.  I'd like to say we should play 10 but then that would only leave 2 non-conference games a year and with the quality opponents wanting to schedule home and homes, that would leave, at best, 6 home games a year.  The ADs dont sound too thrilled about that.  A 9 game schedule means you may play more road games than the team you're battling for the Rose Bowl.  That doesn't seem fair.  An 8 game schedule means you could commit to Michigan State and never once play in the Shoe.  If I had to pick, I'd say go with 10.

I never saw a football player make a tackle with a smile on his face

buckeyechad's picture

This class (and last class) show just how good Urban is at finding assistant coaches, which in my opinion are just as important as the head coach. The best head coaches are obviously great in game coaches, but Urban and Saban are just at a different level at finding the most talented assistant at both coaching and recruiting. There are other great in game coaches, and other great recruiting staffs but no one in the country can match the combination of the two that Ohio State and Bama have right now.
On a related topic, this is why the rest of the Big 10 (outside us, michigan, and maybe msu/nebraska) will continue to fall behind until they start ponying up some cash for quality coaches/assistants. Michigan did and we see how much having a Mattison on the staff improved their recruiting and defense immediately. The Big 10 as a whole basically prints money, it's time they start putting some of it into the quality of the teams.

btalbert25's picture

I'm thinking after Urban's era is over, "10 year war" may not have anything to do with Michigan anymore.  It'll be Bama that we reference with that phrase.

Brutus's picture

While I agree that this appears to be the direction we are headed, I think we need to slow down with all the "it's us vs Bama" and "Meyer owns Saban"  (which was prevalent yesterday) type talk.  Bama has proven themselves.  We haven't. Right now we sound like the scUM fans who have been saying "we're back" for the last two years simply because they are recruiting well and had one good season.  I'm in awe of Meyer and I think we will be dominant over the next several years, but I'd rather prove it before we start putting ourselves up there with Bama.  That's where we want to be.  We aren't there yet though.

btalbert25's picture

I don't think Urban owns Saban at all.  They are by far the 2 best coaches in college football though.  With the combination of coaching and recruiting, to me it's only a matter of time before we're mentioned in the same breath as the Bama's of the world.  Of course we arent at that level yet, they've won 3 of the last 4 titles.  Saban and Meyer battled it out in the SEC, to me it's just going to be a continuation of that, only instead of the SEC title game, they'll be meeting in the national title game.
I see your point, and I'm not just being a blind homer, I'm saying outside the SEC there's no program that has made that jump to compete for titles year in and year out, at least not since Pete Carol left.  We're going to be that program.  12-0 last year has us riding high, I'm not sure 2013 will be another unbeaten year, there are a lot of holes to fill on D, but 2014 I think could be the year.  We certainly aren't Bama yet, but we are the program outside the SEC who is poised to challenge them.

Brutus's picture

My post wasn't so much directed at you BT and I know you never said anything about Meyer owning Saban.  I saw it a few times yesterday so was just commenting on that.  Homer or not, I don't see how anyone doesn't put OSU in the conversation of programs that are poised to dominate over the next few years, so I agree with you completely on that.  I'd rather just let it all play out on the field instead of carrying on like Michigan, or ND, or even Ole Miss yesterday, who once they got a taste of success after so many years of irrelevance, they are suddenly the next great dynasty.

buckeyechad's picture

I don't think I had ever come across an Ole Miss fan on the internet until yesterday. I hate them now already. 

fear_the_nut70's picture

Already with a top five class, Ohio State was hoping to get commits from at least one of James Clark, Dontre Wilson, and Vonn Bell.  They got all 3.  While ESECN will never rank this class number one, no matter.  After all, recruiting rankings are not an exact science, but a rough indicator of a group's potential.  This after Ohio State went 12-0 with a good squad but one with many holes.  At the presser, Meyer laughed when asked if he was declaring war on Alabama.  Meyer paid the SEC and their recent run the respect it deserves, but side-stepped the question.  Vonn Bell did not--in a very well composed message, one that sent Tennessee into a frenzy, Bell made this point clear, he was joining Ohio State to knock Alabama off the mountain top.  Ohio State's offense in 2012 was better than expected, with few real elite play makers outside of the quarterback.   When EZE reaffirmed his commitment, Ohio State assembled an embarrassment of riches on that side of the ball, joining Wilson, Jalin Marshall, Clark--a collection of explosive play makers that could immediately make this one of the most explosive offenses in the country.  This followed one of the deepest D line hauls over the last two years in the country and now a very deep recruit of defensive backs.  Don't get me wrong, the people in Florida, Alabama, LSU are not afraid of the Buckeyes, and nor should they be until we prove we can beat them.  But other than TSUN, the rest of the B1G has already been left in the dust.  And for Meyer, a coach who already has two championships playing in what has been the elite conference in college football for most of the last decade, he has served notice, the Buckeyes are coming, and for this coach, crystal is what he expects for his two year anniversary.  IT HAS NEVER BEEN A BETTER TIME TO BE A BUCKEYE!!

thatlillefty's picture

Great write-up on Tuesday's OSU-UM game... despite the loss, that was one of the best games i've seen in a while. I really hope we get to see a re-match in the B1G tourney.

T4EHill's picture

I think the 9 game conference sounds more ideal but that's just me. One less cupcake to pay and maybe have a better strength of schedule

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Woody Hayes

dja.ohio's picture

If the B1G moves to 9 conference games, a schedule with 4 home/4 away/1 neutral site might be a way to protect home-gate revenue for all teams. Teams would keep the same number of home games they have had, and then split the gate somehow for the neutral site conference game. 

Buckeye_Mafia's picture

So what was the news on Shelton Gibson?  I see he signed with WVU...Did Meyer not go after him after the high school all-star games?  I didn't really see much about his recruiting after that.  We got James Clark so I wonder if Meyer "Hoke'd", I mean cooled on him once Clark was in the mix.  Thanks!

"At critical moments throughout the season, we learned about the character of this football team.  This was a team of true character, of true resilience." -- President Barack Obama

DetroitBuckeye's picture

Dane Sanzenbacher is certainly another good one, we actually had several sleepers under Tressel.

TBDBITLinWIScantSON's picture

So many comments to sift through, but does anyone think part of this drama around NSD could be alleviated by an early signing period. If kids have commutable offers, then let 'em sign and be held accountable. If the university is going to be held accountable for holding their spot, then there should be a way to hold them accountable as well.
If a kid can call a coach on NSD AS THEY'RE HEADING UP TO THE PODIUM TO ANNOUNCE, and say, "you know I'm I'm, right?", then the university should have some recourse IMHO. Because if you ask a question like that, I assume the coach didn't know, and then, why the drama? Answer: because we've built it up to that...


Michael Citro's picture

Bobby Olive was a walk-on who had a pretty great OSU career.

Alhan's picture

Funnel cloud over the 'Shoe, eh? (F5 link).  Looks like steam coming out of a vent to me...

"Nom nom nom" - Brady Hoke

Chris Lauderback's picture

I figured it was just smoke from Ohio State coaches sacrificing footballs Bauserman launched into the stands during his tenure but who knows. I thought it was pretty cool pic so I threw it in there.

Alhan's picture

I kinda thought that was your reason for including it.  Living in C-Bus, I'm sure I would have heard something about it if there had been a funnel cloud near campus within the last year.

"Nom nom nom" - Brady Hoke

Catch 5's picture

Exactly what I thought when I saw it, except I wouldn't expect there to be large condensing units there.  Even still, it's not an F5. 
Here's an F5 going by a stadium :(

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

Chris Lauderback's picture

CATCH5: Yeah, I remember watching video of that tornado on the news. Unreal. No question that's the real thing when talking F5.

ALLHAN: Yeah, I live Downtown and no question, we'd both be aware if a funnel truly hovered over campus.

Colonel Quaritch's picture

I dont know about you guys but that Randy Edsall story of getting chased out of a recruits neighborhood is pretty insane if you havent read it yet. 

"The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me." 

RBuck's picture

If the number 82 is a problem for Townsend, I have no doubt that Urbz will find a scholly for him. I just hope JT doesn't panic and sign with another school. Sounds like the kid really wants to be a Buckeye. 

Long live the southend.