Tuesday Skull Session

By Danny on November 15, 2011 at 6:00a
89 Comments

Good morning Buckeye fans and welcome to your Tuesday Skull Session.

OSU is most likely not going to the first ever Big Ten title game and that's a tough pill to swallow.

Nonetheless, I'll still be at the games for the remainder of 2011, rooting aimlessly for a team which is a mere shadow of its former glory, I will still jump into the ghastly depths of Mirror Lake next Tuesday, and, most importantly, I will rejoice once Michigan falls yet again in it's quest to beat the Buckeyes (here's to hopeful thinking and continuous drinking).

Even if Ohio State isn't where we, as fans, want them to be, there is still meaning in and traditions left to uphold this season and beating Michigan NEVER gets old.

Let's get started: 

MEINEKE CAR CARE OR THE INSIGHT BOWL. These are the two bowls where Ohio State is most likely to end up, according to SB Nation and CollegeFootballNews.com, respectively.

The projected opponents for OSU in both these two scenarios are Texas Tech for the Meineke Car Care Bowl and Texas A&M for the Insight Bowl.

My question is: Do the Buckeyes actually go and play if they wind up in one of these bowls? My answer: Absolutely.

Luke Fickell needs to get as many opportunities as he can to prove he still deserves his job, or as it's looking now, deserves some sort of BCS football head coaching gig. If he can pull off a win in one of these small-time bowls, it can only help him. If he loses, it's not like things have been going his way this season anyway.

Fickell might as well try his luck, but the Buckeyes haven't been officially eliminated from Big Ten contention so keep your fingers crossed. Crazier things have happened, right? 2007, right?

Stagg's name stands alone.

TOUGH GRADER. Jon Spencer of the MansfieldNewsJournal.com has graded the Buckeyes' performance against Purdue, and it looks as though Spencer thinks they're far from dean's list material.

Spencer gave the running backs, defensive line, linebackers and defensive backs Cs; the passing game and coaching staff received a C minus; and the offensive line and special teams were the dunces of the class with Ds.

I can't really disagree with Spencer's grades. The team, as a whole, either played flat out mediocre and if you were grading heart, especially in the first half, you would have to give them all "Fs". The offense looked as if it was just trying to keep up and, at times, looked lost, while the defense continued to miss tackles and give up big plays on 3rd downs.

Fickell's aforementioned chances of keeping the Buckeye job diminish weekly with this poor output, and he'll need to change things quickly to help the Bucks finish out strong at 8-4.

NEW FACES IN DIFFERENT PLACES. As of now, Michigan State and Wisconsin are the favorites to make it to Indianapolis for the inaugural Big Ten title game. Both squads just need to manage to win out their next two games, which will punch their tickets to Indy.

I'm sure many are disappointed that there isn't a more iconic matchup like OSU-Michigan, but perhaps B1G commissioner Jim Delany isn't so bummed about seeing new faces leading the conference.

Doug Lesmerises of the Plain Dealer suggests that since Jim Tressel and Joe Paterno, arguably the faces of the B1G over the last decade, have been ousted, Delany would like to see some new figures become the representatives of the conference.

Lesmerises suggests that Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema, currently in his sixth year at Wisconsin, could become one of the bigger names with Tressel and Paterno out of the picture. Currently, Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz has been tenured as head coach in the B1G for the longest, with 13 years under his belt.

CUTTING ALL TIES. The Big Ten is trying to wash its hands by removing all links to the Penn State sex scandal. Adam Rittenberg of ESPN reports that Paterno's name will be removed from the B1G title game trophy for starters.

The trophy was originally supposed to be named the Stagg-Paterno Championship Trophy, honoring both Joe Paterno and Amos Alonzo Stagg, a former coach of the University of Chicago, who compiled 314 wins in his career.

The trophy has been simply renamed the Stagg Championship Trophy, leaving Joe Pa's once sure-fire legacy in the dust for now.

LOS LINKS. The lawyer involved in the suspension of OSU players denies any wrongdoing... Marvin Robinson is a true Michigan man... Denard Robinson is expected to play against Nebraska... OSU-Michigan to be played at noon... Shout out to the one legitimate sports team in Cleveland, the Cleveland State Vikings, for knocking Vanderbilt back 13 spots.

89 Comments

Comments

Baroclinicity's picture

That would just be my luck to play Texas Tech in a bowl game... my other alma mater (grad school).  I'm a Buckeye first, of course...

When you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

AcrossTheField11's picture

So is that a win win or a lose lose?

Time and change will surely show how firm they friendship... O-HI-O.

Baroclinicity's picture

Ack.  I don't know.  Since it makes my head hurt thinking about it, I'll say lose-lose.

When you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Maestro's picture

As the other Tech alum on the site I would be happy to see Tech embarrassed by the Buckeyes.  Maybe it will send Tubbs out with a bang.  He is on very thin ice in my book for how the team has performed the past 2 seasons.  You can't lose at home by 34 to Iowa State and keep your job for long.

vacuuming sucks

Poe McKnoe's picture

It would be ridiculously ironic for the Jim Bollman/Jim Tressel era to end against Texas Tech and Tommy Tuberville.  Why you may ask?  Both coaches/systems live and die by the power run game.  Both despise throwing the ball.  They are about lining it up and running it down the opponet's throat.

Both teams should just make an agreed to call the power off tackle every single snap in this game.  It would pretty much usher out that era of football (for a couple decades, at least).

flipbuckeye's picture

I would love nothing more than to stick it to Tommy Tuberville.

EDIT: And I just realized you are the author of that post. Ha.

Maestro's picture

Troy Smith and Seth Doege might disagree with your assessment of them despising the forward pass.  Tech leads the country in pass attempts this season FWIW.

vacuuming sucks

slippy's picture

I can't decide if I would really like Wisconsin to not win the B1G or if I want them to win and go get pounded by Oregon/Stanford in the Rose Bowl.  Decisions decisions...

 

I think what it will come down to will be watching the B1G championship game and being completely unable to root for them.

AcrossTheField11's picture

I don't like Bielema but I don't think I could root for a fellow B1G school to get blasted in the Rose Bowl.  Our conference is down more this year than it has ever been (arguably).  We need to win some bowl games, plain and simple. 

Dream scenario (besides OSU making it to the rose bowl) is Sparty winning the BTCG, and beating stanford / oregon in the rose bowl with defense.

Wisconsin goes to cap1 bowl and beats the SEC #3 team (Arkansas?), and we go out and handle Texas Tech / A&M with a gameplan similar to Wisconsin where the playcalling actually makes sense.

It'd also be nice to see State Penn win a bowl game for their fans who are probably one step from the ledge atm.

Time and change will surely show how firm they friendship... O-HI-O.

BuckeyeSaab's picture

"Do the Buckeyes actually go and play if they wind up in one of these bowls?"

How arrogant and spoiled do you have to be to even think up that question?  No bowl game means not getting the extra 3-4 weeks of practice.  That's biting off your nose right there to turn down a lower tiered bowl game.

I'm sorry for not being sorry.

btalbert25's picture

I think it's valid, for no other reason than it puts off the coaching search another month. Which means the new coach will have 1 month less to secure a terrific recruiting class.  Some coaches can get a lot done in a little time, but say it's Urban Meyer.  Give the guy 2 months leading up to signing day instead of 3 or 4 weeks and the haul could be much greater. 

RBuck's picture

Yesterday I was thinking doing a blog or forum post weighing the pros and cons about self-imposing a bowl ban for this year. You guys just stated the main con and pro. I'm still undecided on which way to go.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

btalbert25's picture

Don't get me wrong, the extra practice is great and all, butI don't know if 3 extra weeks of practice with a staff that isn't likely to be back next year is going to help much for the future anyway.  At the same time, that is kind of a big Eff You to guys like Brewster who have put in 4 great years here and deserve to go out a little bit better than that.  Of course, not sure that the Insight Bowl or Meineke Car Care bowl would trump ending the season with a W against Michigan.  May be a fitting end to a Buckeye Career.

BuckeyeSaab's picture

3-4 weeks extra practice > no extra practice

extra game time experience > no extra game time experience

24 senors getting to enjoy a bowl trip > 24 seniors sitting at home

As for the new coach having 2 months to recruit, not sure how much last second push can really have to suddenly fill the class out with 5 star studs.  Also, what are the odds that Ohio State has self banned and has a new coach installed by Dec 1st?  Thereby giving him the 2 month lead time you are hoping for.  We have a Pres that is a bit out of his depth when it comes to sports and an AD that seems to be good in only two things, getting sweet jobs and bungling the #@^ out of them.  Those are the guys you are entrusting to make a timely and decisive, not to mention great, coaching hire?

It's not that I discount your point on recruiting entirely.  Maybe I am just resigned to the fact that we are going to have a screwed up and dragged out coaching transition.

I'm sorry for not being sorry.

RBuck's picture

Just saw where Sweat's out this week. Shazier gets the start.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Love it.   Want to see Shazier out there for the entire game.   Get him some experience and lets see if he is indeed the real deal.   Early returns are looking good.....

Maestro's picture

Sad for Sweat.  It's Senior Day.  He may not be what we are used to at LB, but the kid deserves to go out on Senior Day and play his guts out.  Very sad for him.

Shazier will make big plays, but losing that much experience almost always hurts.

vacuuming sucks

Maestro's picture

You absolutely have to go to a bowl game (pending NCAA ruling) just for the practices that it allows you.  This team needs a lot of practice to get ready for next season and a run at the B1G Championship.

vacuuming sucks

btalbert25's picture

I can see this thinking, but I'm not sure it really prepares the team for next year.  You're going to be practicing one coaches's system on both sides of the ball when next year they likely could have a completely different system implemented on both sides of the ball.  I just don't know how valuable those practices would be.

Maestro's picture

It helps.  It's football not rocket science.  Reps, reps, reps, reps.  No other way to get better.

vacuuming sucks

Denny's picture

I think they really need to work hard on the quantum mechanical aspects of the footballs.

Taquitos.

Maestro's picture

Without a doubt.  Like how to get the ball to bounce over the crossbar instead of falling short of it.

vacuuming sucks

Denny's picture

The football is both a particle and a wave.

Taquitos.

Buckeyejason's picture

Btalbert is right..there's no point of practicing a system that most likely won't be used next season.

They'd get more out of strength and conditioning than practicing Heacocks soft zone and running Dave over and Over in bowl practice.

BUCKEYES BABY!

Maestro's picture

Wow, BJ and BT teaming up again to lead us down a path.

Seriously, it's of no benefit?  Really?  None (BT didn't go this far of course)!!!!!!

What is Braxton Miller?  A DUAL THREAT QB!!!!  That is not going to change because of a new coaching staff.  You honestly think a new coaching staff would come in and say,

        "I am not going to watch any film from 2011.  Why would I want to see what my new players do well or what they do poorly.  I'll just force them into my system regardless of their strengths and weaknesses."

Every single practice pass that Miller throws to Philly, Smith, Spencer, Fields, Stoney, Fragel, Hall or Williams is a benefit.  Every single time he airmails a throw and then practices how to not airmail a throw is a benefit.  Every single route that all those receivers run to work on timing, crispness, getting off the line of scrimmage is a benefit. 

Football is football.  The system and terminology might change, but there is absolutely no way to get better besides reps, reps, reps, reps, reps and more reps..........system be damned.  You will still hand the ball off, you will still take snaps under center, you will still take snaps from the shotgun, you will still throw passes, you will still run routes, you will still block, you will still tackle, you will still kick FG's, you will still cover kicks, you will still PLAY FREAKING FOOTBALL.

Don't overthink it.  You might end up hurting yourself.  Go to a bowl game.  PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.  Every day you don't practice the other teams are getting better and you are not.

vacuuming sucks

Buckeyejason's picture

Do us a favor Maestro, go outside for a second, take a deap breathe, have a smoke or whatever just calm the F down.

Oh and thanks for stating the obvious.

BUCKEYES BABY!

Denny's picture

Based on his avatar I would guess that Maestro is quite calm.

Taquitos.

Maestro's picture

Unless I am vacuuming.

vacuuming sucks

SouthPlainfieldNut's picture

Amen. Stop overthinking it, fellas. Football's still about blocking, tackling and execution first. The team should seize every opportunity it gets. And a bowl game, and hopefully bowl win, is always something to build on.

btalbert25's picture

I definitely think there are some benefits, but I don't know that they outweigh the benefits of getting a new coach hired and let them secure the recruiting class that can still be had, which it could still end up being a really good one.  Again, I'm not lobbying against going to a bowl, I just think that it could be more important for the future of this team to get the new coach hired, and let him get to work or hit the ground running, rather than handcuffing him right out of the gate and only allowing 3 or 4 weeks to recruit guys he wants.  It could all be moot if the NCAA comes out and says no bowl game for Ohio State this year anyway.

Do 3 weeks of practice in December make a team better?  Sure, practice always helps.  Do I believe all the coach speak about how important the practices are?  Probably not.  I don't think if you miss those 3 weeks you are guarrentteed failure the next year.  If nothing else that's the coaches line to make sure the school decides to accept bowl invites, even if the bowl actually costs the university over a million bucks to send the team.  A coach is going to want any practice time they can get, period they have to go out and lobby for that time by saying the teams improve more during those practices than any other practice of the year.  No doubt it's important, but not sure it's more important than getting a new coach in place and said coach going out and locking down guys like Aldolfus Washington or 1 or 2 of the huge WR recruits who are on the fence right now. 

RBuck's picture

Tress has said the main benefit of going to a bowl is the extra practice.

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

btalbert25's picture

I think every coach says that and I say of course they would.  A coach always wants extra practice time.  To be sure if we were facing a crappy bowl game with Tressel as the coach and we knew for the next 5 years he was still going to be the coach, you absolutely accept the bowl bid.

This is a unique situation though, and there are quite a few undecided guys or Buckeye leans who are trying to see how the NCAA stuff and the coaching situation shakes out.  We need someone in place before these guys commit.  I know verbals can always be changed, but if the new coach is put in place prior to 3 weeks before signing day, I think the Buckeyes land a lot of these guys, and if the coach is Meyer, well then they'll land guys that aren't even on the Buckeyes radar at this point in time, at least in my opinion. 

btalbert25's picture

Honestly Maestro, I'm really not disagreeing with you I'm just saying that I think that both sides could be valuable to the future of this program.  If the team misses out on a couple ringers because there's still uncertainty with the coaching staff, then I don't believe the 3 extra weeks of practice were worth it.

We've seen where the team has improved immensely during the days leading up to the bowl and we've seen where this team has regressed or stayed about the same during that time period.  At the end of the day both sides want what's best for the future of the program and I believe that both have merit.  I don't think neccessarily that 20 extra days of practice always equals a team improving.  Is all I'm trying to say. 

Maestro's picture

I respectfully disagree.  This team with all it's youth needs as much practice as it can get period.

The amount of benefit the extra practice creates is debatable, but whether it is in fact a benefit vs. a detriment is not debatable IMHO.

The team has won 6 games.  They are going bowling.  Might as well get as much out of it as possible.

vacuuming sucks

btalbert25's picture

I agree, practice is never going to hurt a team, unless of course a key part of the team gets injured.  Practice is never going to be negative. 

chitown buckeye's picture

I have to agree with Albert. There is no debating the importance of practice. However, I agree this is a special circumstance. Think long term and in 4 years where do we want to be? Looking back would it have been more important to get a solid coaching staff in place. Set the foundation early for the program, have a chance for great recruits. I think four years from now I would rather have a solid coaching staff and a great senior class over a cheap bowl win and three weeks of practice. The coaching staff has been doing very little in the aspect of coaching anyone anyhow. I hate to say it but most of these players would benefit from throwing and getting together on there own! Just my two cents. I wouldnt be upset if the guys got an extra three weeks of practice. I just think I would want a great recruiting class that could make an immediate impact and to get that we may have to sacrifice a few weeks of practice... I'm ok with that.

"I'm having a heart attack!"

btalbert25's picture

Quite honestly, as I have already said, this argument could be totally moot once the NCAA finally announces it's ruling.  They may settle the argument for us. 

Buckeyejason's picture

Of coarse Braxton throwing the ball to his recievers, running backs getting carries, O-lineman blocking, defenders tackling and defending during extra practice will help.

But as I stated before, I can't see it having a huge impact on next season, if for instance Urban Meyer is our coach and he completely reconstructs everything: offense, defense, special teams.

Did Florida get better with extra bowl practices with Meyer after a new coach(Muschamp) came in and did everything different? Same thing at Michigan with Rich Rod.

BUCKEYES BABY!

Maestro's picture

You are talking out of both sides of your fingers here BJ.

First you say it will help, then you say it won't. 

My point is if it will help even one teeny weeny bit then it is worth it.  If it will help, even a teeny weeny bit, then it will help for next season.  What else could it help? 

 

vacuuming sucks

Buckeyejason's picture

I'm probably speaking out of the fact that I just want this season to end already.

Honestly a bowl win would be great, regardless if its a shitty bowl against a subpar program.

BUCKEYES BABY!

blazers34's picture

no matter the system, the basic fundamentals of football are the same.  tackling, blocking, catching, passing, blah blah blah.

 

our young guys could absolutely use the extra reps of bowl practices

Buckeyejason's picture

If the players go into practice not giving a shit because they're going to the "Car Care Bowl" or whatever also knowing that Fickell will most likely not be here next season..is there still major benefits in it?

Let's face it, a lot of the guys on this team have been going to BCS bowl games since they've been at Ohio State. Is there motivation for them to play in a non BCS bowl, or does it come off as worthless and "we just want to be in the off season now"?

BUCKEYES BABY!

btalbert25's picture

Eh, I think the players are going to listen to their coaches no matter what.  They respect Fickell, at least that's what the party line has been in interviews.  They aren't going to dog it in practice, and if they do, there is always consequences to screwing off in practice.  The usually deal with running so much you vomit lol.  I think practice always helps some.  I see the value in it if you are going to a bowl.  I'm just not sure that 3 weeks of practice in December leads to better play in September the following  year.  Maybe you can get some work done there that would otherwise be reserved for Spring camp I don't know. 

My biggest argument is not does practice help the team or is practice good.  My argument is, will the 3 weeks of extra practice be better than bringing in that new coach and giving him and extra month to put together a recruiting class and get his system going, on the field and off.  A coach has to establish his culture with the team.  I think you get that new guy in ASAP, let him start talking to and interacting with the players, give them an Idea of what he sees happening with the team and what the players roles are.  Let him get out there and get recruits locked on to Ohio State.  There are some huge targets that have the Buckeyes on their list and they are in a holding pattern right now.  Let's get some stability with this program, get the coach in and start putting these guys in the fold.

I think the 2nd scenario is better for the team's future than the 3 weeks of practice.  Neither are going to be bad.  To be sure, the school is going to accept the bowl bid anyway.  I'm sure there's great pressure from the B1G since the whole conference splits up the bowl revenues anyway.  Their going to go, and they'll get that practice(unless the NCAA says otherwise). 

I'm mostly playing devil's advocate to get a discussion going on a rainy day where work is slow.  I am leaning toward best case scenario being a bowl ban this year, getting the new coach in place, ending the year for the seniors with a great win over a hated foe.  Then going to the car rental bowl or tire bowl or whatever and losing to Texas Tech or A&M.

Buckeye06's picture

Isn't there a way to hire a coach and still go to a bowl game?  I'm not saying it's the best option but can't you hire someone on December 1, and still get him in to help out for bowl prep? 

 

I'm not endorsing that as the best option, because I'm still in the Pro-Fickell for 2012 wagon.  I think he has improved a lot this year as the year has gone on.  With some more offense, the field position may not kill us and the D's stats will in turn be better.

 

And I am 100% in favor of going to a bowl game; it's a chance to give the kids some fun, and play a team from another conference in a game that is on paper supposed to be even. 

Buckeyejason's picture

Can you explain to me how you think Fickell has improved as the season goes on?

I mean we just played an unspired, undiciplined game when a possible B1G championship birth was on the line.

He coached one good game this season, ONE. One out of 9 means he doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

BUCKEYES BABY!

Buckeye06's picture

Our gameplan was good in the Nebraska game, unlucky our QB went out.

The defense is young and they make mistakes; it reminds me a ton of the 07 gators D that went on to be dominant in 08.  The offense is young as well, and going on the road in a major conference is never easy.

you're blaming him for the missed INTs that our CBs made when they hit them in the hands?  Or you're blaming him for the 15 yard passes that Braxton underthrew by 5 yards?  Or maybe you're blaming him for missing 35 tackles in the game?  I'm not saying that he isn't at the head of the cart and shouldn't be blamed for the losses, but as a coach you put the guys in the right places to succeed, and he's done more of that lately than early in the year. 

I'll say in the 9 games, he has coached fine in at least 6 (akron, Neb, Wisky, MSU, Ill. and Indiana).  He looked lost against Miami, and I can admit that.  But he looked wayyy better at nebraska and at Wisky and at Ill. 

You were the guy saying we wouldn't make a bowl game, now 7-5 is realistic and 8-4 is possible.  If we go 8-4 this year, and beat a team in a bowl game, then I consider that a success.  Even with Tress as coach without the guys we lost for 5 games I think we're 7-2 right now, maybe 8-1

Buckeyejason's picture

I'm blaming him for everything. He's the HEAD COACH! Unfortunatly they get the blame for everything that has to do with the team, good or bad. The players are a reflection of their coaches.

We've seen undiciplined, uninspired, poorly coached football basically all season. I'm sure as hell not the only one that is saying this.

BUCKEYES BABY!

BuckeyeChris's picture

I'm with BuckeyeJason on this (again). He's the head coach. Therefore, the decision to waste half the season with Bauserman as QB1 rests with him. That alone is reason enough to move on. 

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

I do agree with you that the team has looked all of the above.  However, I don't see us landing a big name, high profile coach.  If that is the case, I'm OK with Fickell.  Stay with Fickell, give him a 5 year contract and let him bring in his own staff, including, but not limited to, a QB coach, and offensive and defensive coordinators.  While he may or not be a great coach (the jury should still be out on this, given the difficulties this year), he loves the university and sometimes, you can't go wrong with a guy like that.  The only risk is that he won't learn on the job fast enough and end up taking us into a few bad seasons.

Read my entire screen name....

Doc's picture

he loves the university and sometimes, you can't go wrong with a guy like that

I love the university!  Should I be in consideration for the head coaching job at one of college footballs premier university's?  I've only got 10 less games of head coaching experience than Fickell.

/sarcasm

 

 

 

"Say my name."

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

That's funny, but you're neglecting Fickell's playing experience and assistant coaching experience.

Who do you think we have a realistic chance at getting?  I just want to know, beyond Meyer, who do we have a shot at and how many conference championships have they one?  

I don't think the OSU football job is quite as premier as you want it to be, for you and me, yea, it's a dream, but for other coaches, I'm not so sure.

Read my entire screen name....

btalbert25's picture

It's one of the premier coaching gigs in the nation, and this team is set up to win and win pretty much as sson as the new coach takes over.  You have a coaching search to see who you could attract.  Once it's known that the job is out there, you find out what Big Names do or don't want the job, or what not so big names are good options too.  Bottom line, with the facilities Ohio State has, the money they'll pay, and being set up to win, if the NCAA doesn't really lower the boom on the program, it's a very attractive job for many coaches out there. 

This is not like when jobs at Michigan, Notre Dame, or Nebraska openned up.  This is a program that will be in pretty good shape with a cupboard that is stocked and ready to win some ballgames.  Fickell could be included in this search of course, give him a crack at the job, the problem is, as a team, there just aren't many improvements.  Any team but Indiana would've beat the Buckeyes that day, so when they play another shitty game the next week guess what, a team slightly better than Indiana beat them.  There have been good moments this year, but not a consistent progression that makes you say wow this team is pretty good.  The D stunk from the word go last week, it had nothing to do with the offense's ineptitude.  The first 2 drives Purdue looked like men playing against boys. 

At what point do we get passed, well he was dealt a bad hand, or circumstances have been hard, or whatever else and just say, the guy isn't ready for this.  All 3 phases of the game play with out discipline, focus, or consistency.  I give the guy credit for taking on the challenge this year, but title or not, he's interim, and this is an interim year. If he can put together somethign during interviews that says this is who I would appoint to my staff this is how we'll improve and the powers that be like it so be it.  My fear is he'll appoint some more of his buddies who have little to no coaching experience, since the one true hiring he did have a hand in resulted in such a situation.

All that is irrelevant at this point.  If a job like Ohio State's comes open, people will listen.  You never know when Nick Saban or Bob Stoops get bored coaching where they are and they come asking about Ohio State.  And to be sure, like him or not, if you choice is Saban or Fickell, you'd be an idiot not to take 5 years of Saban.  Let's be clear, I'm not saying he's a candidate, you just never know who will be interested in your job, until the job the magnitude of Ohio State's comes open.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

I think you are forgetting how young most of the players are this year.  As someone previously pointed out, we aren't highly penalized, we are, however, untimely with our penalties and our mistakes - this is a sign of youth!!!.  We have more injuries this year than in past years (could it be coaching, I don't know).  We have dealt with suspensions of our senoir leaders.  We have dealt with a freshman quarterback without a mentor as a coach or a player.  We have inept play calling.  

I'm not saying that though or making excuses for our poor performances and intimely stumbles. I think we will gauge the interest of other coaches out there.  I'm just not convinced that we'll be able to attract a Saban, Peterson, Patterson, or Bob Stoops.  Of course these coaches will listen, but actions speak louder than words and will they ultimately leave? They didn't with UM, which by the way, I can't believe you wouldn't consider UM a premier position with all of the history of that program  Same with ND. Tressel worked out great for us, but let's not forget where he came from - it's not like he was at a top tier FBS program.  Whether it was luck or good homework, we didn't exactly entice the big name then either.  So once again, if we don't or can't get a coach who has the proven ability to win big games, conferences, and championships, then who do we go for and why not Fickell?  Or do we go for another coach in a similar situation to Tressel and hope it works out the same?  But that is a big risk, and perhaps a smaller risk is taken on Fickell.  

Read my entire screen name....

btalbert25's picture

I think you misunderstood what I said.  I didn't say UM or ND weren't premier jobs.  I said this is a much different situation they'd be walking into.  Notre Dame hasn't been really good in a long long time.  Ty Willingham, Cheeseburger Charlie, and Brian Kelly didn't walk into the talent situation that whoever takes over this program is walking into.  Michigan had an absolute empty cupboard.  There were rumors that players like Boren and Mallet were going to leave the program.  Any coach would've walked in there and struggled a bit.  Plus, they had a half ass coaching search.  The 2nd time they still didn't get who they wanted, but the program came off of 3 horrible years in a row.  It wasn't an attractive position at the time.  Anyone could see it was going to take a few years to build it back.  These days you don't have that luxury.  We all know who the blue bloods are, and certainly those 2 programs are.  The difference is this, the new coach will be walking into a situation where they can win NOW.  That keeps the recruits flowing in, the fans, happy and buys a coach time to continue winning.

I never said any of those coaches will take the job, just that there will be interest and it will be intriguing to some people we didn't expect.  I'm not expecting Saban, and I as much as said that.  What I'm saying is the situation here does not equal the situation at Michigan, Notre Dame, and Nebraska through there several coaching searches.  Also, a lot can be learned from how those schools have handled searching for a new coach.  For what it's worth it doesn't have to be another huge name coach.  If I were presented with the option of another Tressel type of coach as opposed to Fickell I'd do it at this point because Tressel had a proven track record of success.  Sure it was at a lower level, but it worked out well.  I want guys with proven success, not a guy who is still learning on the job and will need a few more years of head coaching experience to be an adequate BCS contending caliber head coach.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

OK.  So we're really not that far apart.  I think there will be interest, but I don't think there will much action.  We do differ on the last point about another Tressel-type vs. Fickell.  I think the Tressel-type coaches will always be around and don't think Fickell was even given a chance this year. I'd be OK with keeping Fickell around.

Read my entire screen name....

btalbert25's picture

As for youth?  Eh, Tressel had some extremely young teams and won still.  One thing you knew was by November his teams would be playing their best football.  They matured as the year went along.  This team so far in November has regressed significantly I'd say. In my opinion the 2 worst games I've watched this year happened the last 2 weekends. 

NC_Buckeye's picture

Tressel had nothing to do with the defense. How do you explain the fact that the defense is regressing. Injuries?

To counter what you're saying about a big name HC being able to take over and win championships right away with the talent on our roster. I think this season has exposed some glaring inadequacies on our roster.

Defense - LB corps have been horrible. You can argue that Vrabel isn't cutting it. I would counter that Sabino and Klein (everyone except Sweat & Shazier) are dense and not the caliber that we're used to.

DBs are very young and not really that good. Will they improve? Who knows? Howard is a junior and not any better than the freshmen.

Offense - OL is going to miserable next year and maybe the year after that as well. We are not getting good enough recruits here. There isn't one of these guys who is any better than a 3-star recruit. In fact I wouldn't argue many of them are 2-star.

WRs -- see what I said about DBs above. No one is able to break away from coverage and when they do they're not catching the ball.

I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think Meyer is aware of the above.

NC_Buckeye's picture

I'm just not convinced that we'll be able to attract a Saban, Peterson, Patterson, or Bob Stoops.  Of course these coaches will listen, but actions speak louder than words and will they ultimately leave? They didn't with UM, which by the way, I can't believe you wouldn't consider UM a premier position with all of the history of that program.  Same with ND.

Opti, I've been saying the same thing since summer. BT and the Meyer fan-boys just ignore me at this point.

So it's getting close to the end of season. And how these big-name coaches work is they get their agents to put out rumors that so-and-so is interested in the Ohio State job should Fickell not be given a contract. (Which they all deny of course.) So far only two names have been mentioned in the rumor-mill. Meyer and Gruden. I think you have to discount Gruden because he's one of those guys like Dungy who everybody dreams about taking over and leading their boys to glory. But nothing ever comes of it.

So that whittles it down to Meyer or going with a no-name with a proven track record.

My question is this -- will Meyer want the task if that involves a two year bowl ban and 15-17 scholarship reductions over a three year period? Frankly, I don't think he will.

What we really should be discussing is the no-name candidates with a proven track record and whether they are truly better than giving Fickell a 5-year contract and the tools to succeed.

 

biggy84's picture

Can you name a single thing that Fickell has done to say he deserves the job? I can't think of one. This team can't complete a pass in week 10. This team has regressed big time. For those that think he inherited a bad job, ask yourself how many wins Tressel would have had with the exact team and coaches. That is the difference between Fickell and a proven guy.

faux_maestro's picture

I'm not really sure Tressel would have had more wins at this point, maybe one at the most. We have been decimated by injuries and suspensions at key positions. Also, Tressel was actually the OC/QB coach so essentially we have place holders who were in those positions in name only now actually responsible for those positions. I seriously doubt that Fickell had the authority to make changes, besides who would he have gotten to fill those positions on June 1?

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Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Tressel would have more wins only because he's the QB coach and offensive coordinator.  You can say that the player cupboards weren't bare - even though one could argue differently given suspensions, injuries and youth, but certianly the coaching cupboards were bare.  Tressel was the head coach and basically the ONLY coach on staff.  Now Fickell can't make changes to get a coaching staff in place and he's not the coach that Tressel is.  Speaking of, how many wins did Tressel have in his first season?  

Read my entire screen name....

Maestro's picture

Rhetorical or not.....7 and a loss to an SEC school in a bowl game.

I am of the opinion that Fickell with a chance to hire his own offensive staff is my favorite option.

vacuuming sucks

JLP36's picture

Agree, but no matter what IF they are going to make a move THEN they must do that only after the INK IS DRY on the next coach's contract.  See Michigan.

An argument about the merits of hiring Urban is valid.  Beyond him and Fickell with the power to hire his own staff (and know who is eligible any given Sat) there are NO attractive candidates. 

If chaos did not reign here, everyone else would have Fickell on their list.

And for the Love of God FIRE GENE SMITH FIRST!

JLP36

onetwentyeight's picture

So we've become the ugly girl who looks at herself in the mirror and thinks she's ugly, and therefore won't go ask any guy to prom. 

Congrats. 

 

Seriously, no one is saying 100% guaranteed Meyer will take the job. We're saying we should OFFER it to him, lay our case out, and do everything in our power to make him want to come here (ie Drown him in a flood of GOLD). But to just sit here and be like, OH POOR ME, Sanctions,  bowl ban, whatever shall we do? C'mon people. Lane Kiffin (scumbag that he is) left a job in one of the biggest schools in the top conference to go take the USC job knowing more likely than not sanctions were coming. He didn't care because its U S C, one of the top 5 jobs in the country period.

 

You know what else is a top 5 job? OSU Head Coach, sanctions or not. I refuse to believe anyone saying otherwise

NC_Buckeye's picture

"Drown him in a flood of GOLD" is not going to be the deciding factor as to whether Meyer will be interested. Yes, he'll want to beat Saban's salary at Bama. But he'll also want a contract that is basically the length of scholarship reductions plus five years. (Which is laughable to me because I really feel he'll quit after year 3 when he can't even get to 9 wins for the third year in a row.) He'll also want a healthy penalty for a contract buy-out.

But most importantly he want the GOLD for his assistants. Asst HCs and Coordinators in the S-E-C make as much as HCs in the B1G's third tier.

And much like Weis at ND that's going to be the legacy Meyer will leave at tOSU. This little experiment in excellence is going to set Athletic Dept finances back about seven years when it's all said and done.

Hey, I hope if he does come to C'bus that you and the other fan-boys are right. I want tOSU NCs as much as the next Buckeye. Life just isn't that easy unless you're cheating. (And that's not even an option in my book.)

I'd be interested to hear what Meyer has to say about oversigning though if he does come to C'bus. Something tells me he is going to be vocal about it. I heard him imply that recruiting in the S-E-C is messed up after he left UF.

btalbert25's picture

I know you don't like Meyer or anyone who is not named Fickell for that matter, but you are making as many assumptions as those who think Meyer will come in and win multiple titles right off the bat.  You've made a few assumptions about what the NCAA penalities will be.  I've seen in your comments something about multiple year bowl bans, when people who have sources close to the situation and write on this site imply they'd be very suprised if there were any bowl ban at all.

You assume Meyer is just going to quit after 3 years if he is even hired to begin with, and that he's just going to wreck the program.  And you assume, not sure why since the B1G is so bad, that 9 wins for 3 years is somehow going to be difficult to achieve.

I don't think Meyer is going to waltz in and just win title after title, I do think the talent is in place for a good coach to come in here and win a Big 10 title and go to a BCS bowl though.  As bad as this team has been it's still in the running with an interim coach.

You are in the No one but Fickell camp and 10 games in, I'm in the anyone but Fickell camp. 

NC_Buckeye's picture

Just for clarification, the Indiana and Purdue games were a wakeup for many in the Pro-Fickell camp. So I would guess that a lot of us have changed our thinking to "we need to evaluate who's better: a no-name vs Fickell" rather than "no one but Fickell" (as you say above).

And I would contend that your camp's position is "anyone but Fickell... as long as his name happens to be Urban Meyer". lol

Like I said I hope you guys are right that Meyer just comes in and wipes up the B1G and wins a couple of NCs. My instincts are telling me that he's seen his best days though. When people burn out on something, there's usually an underlying cause. In this case, I believe the cause is psychological. And you can't fix that without years of therapy.

Re sanctions: there's no one on here with contacts in Indy. (11W staffers, please correct me if I'm wrong.) I think the writers and Brutus have contacts in the Athletic Dept and tOSU Administration. I also think the FTM notice that resulted from the DiGeronimo extra benefits were not what those contacts were predicting. I see that as a message to Smith that they, the NCAA, are getting tired of playing this game. IMO he has expended the goodwill that he had in Indy. If they deny his request to have an earlier teleconference COI hearing on these new violations -- the writing is on the wall.

biggy84's picture

I would refer to the Tenn ruling that was recently given. Their case was far worse and they received their self-imposed sanctions.

btalbert25's picture

You have always implied that my sights were soley on Meyer as the next head coach and that's just not true.  Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't complain if that's who they hire.  My contention has always been, there needs to be a coaching search, where they actually interview candidates. You just never know who may want to take the job when such a high profile job comes open.  I've always said Fickell should be interviewed as well.(although with the last couple of games I'm not so sure)  My point is and always has been that an actual search for a coach needs to be conducted.  I don't think oh well we're Ohio State everyone wants this job.  I've seen in football and basketball where the name on the jersey alone doesn't = all the best coaches in America dropping what they are doing and coming here, but it's always possible that a job like this does bring out some big names that people don't expect.  At this point, we aren't hearing rumors because there's a guy here with the job.  It's not open yet.  So Meyer or any other coach aren't going to come out and say I want the Ohio State job, because as of right now, there's no openning to be had.

 

Bucks's picture

No matter opinions, this might be one incredible HC search for the conference this year if all jobs end up with openings. PSU, OSU & ILL. Geez.

Oh and tiny box.

Maestro's picture

That's why I started a Gary Pinkel discussion weeks ago NC_B.

Sure Ohio State is a great job, but it comes with a lot of headaches too.  Someone who has already been to the top may not want those headaches anymore.

Other names.........just spit ballin'.........Kevin Sumlin, Brent Venables, Butch Jones, Dan Mullen.

vacuuming sucks

NC_Buckeye's picture

Maestro,
So maybe in addition to Pinkel -- how about we put some profiles of the other guys and maybe a pro & con rundown as blog posts? I'll take Venables and Jones.

Oh and in regards to the headaches of the tOSU HC, I bet John Cooper would have a lot to say about that. I've heard snippets from him here and there saying as much.

William's picture

Because Venables has experience as a HC? Pinkel isn't a bad suggestion, and Dan Mullen can't cut it is as a HC, he's destined to be an OC for the rest of his career. Butch Jones hasn't impressed me, except for when he had an incredible QB like Dan Lefevour.

Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Yea, I see eye to eye with you on that and my opnion is that we should give Fickell the contract and the tools.  What if he ended being an OSU Joe Paterno?  

In addition, I don't think we understand how lucky or good we were to get Tressel.  I'm not sure that any other no-name candidate could ever do what he did.  While some expect that by us going with a no-name we will get another Tressel, I'm just not so sure that it will be the home run that Tressel was.

We already know the Fickell can recruit, but we really don't know if he can coach or not - he wasn't given a chance this year.  I think we know more about Fickell than any other coach and I think Fickell has more upside.  I think he's less risky.

Read my entire screen name....

biggy84's picture

I still haven't heard one thing that Fickell has done well. Whether you want to see it or not, this team has been outcoached on a weekly basis, and is regressing. You have the same staff and schemes that have been here for 10 years, not a lot of adjustments for an interim guy.

Denny's picture

'I think you are forgetting how young most of the players are this year.' 

Yea, but Bauserbro brings the mean to like 28.

Taquitos.

faux_maestro's picture

We WOULD be stupid if we didn't consider them but I can guarentee that Nick Saban and Big Game Bob will not be leaving their current gigs for Ohio State.

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Bucksfan's picture

Ugh.  It's going to be a long offseason.

Kyle's picture

If Bret Bielema becomes the face of the B1G I will be forced to openly root for OSU Independence.  That guy is a classless ass clown and that's me being kind.  He's the ultimate doucher.

Doc's picture

That guy is a classless ass clown and that's me being kind.  He's the ultimate doucher

I'll second this.  What a doucher, indeed.

 

 

"Say my name."

BuckeyeSaab's picture

I'm sorry for not being sorry.

faux_maestro's picture

+1,000,000 Ass clown is my favorite insult

Inní mér syngur vitleysingur

onetwentyeight's picture

That being said, I'm gonna be actively rooting for him to run up to score vs PSU like NOBODYS BUSINESS. You just know BRO BIELMA is salivating at the chance to 'TAKE IT to them child rapists'

 

I hope they utterly ruin PSU so much that those blind Penn st. fans might finally pause and be like, oh, this whole "scandal" wasn't actually about us - it was about the kids who got raped.

 

 

TatumRuled's picture

Long before the PSU scandal, naming the CHAMPIONSHIP trophy after Paterno was a head-scratcher to me.

Penn St has only been in the BigTen for less than 20 years. And during those years, how many times were they champs? 4 or 5? Made no sense to me at all.

It shoulda been the Woody-Bo Trophy.

"Hell, Woody didn't recruit me; he recruited my mother!" -Jack Tatum                       

NC_Buckeye's picture

Woody-Bo is the name of the COY trophy. Think they were just trying to pass around the love.

IMO they shouldn't have named them all at once. Made more sense for it to happen organically over a period of time. (Same can be said for the "made-up" rivalry trophies.)

I remember thinking a couple of the position-trophy names felt forced and not the true historical precedent for that position. Again, I think they were trying to incorporate as big a base as possible.

Buckeye Chuck's picture

I'm waiting for the Kevin Houser Long Snapper of the Year Award. Get on that, Mr. Delany.

I live a reasonable drive from Houston, so it would be ironic if the Buckeyes end up in the Car Care Classic or whatever it's called (with tickets likely available for a song), while I'm back in Columbus for the holidays. At least it would give me an additional reason to get drunk on New Year's Eve.

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

NC_Buckeye's picture

For your edification, here is a listing of the Big Ten rivalry games and their corresponding trophies. The last three are the newest "made-up" trophies.

Big Ten Rivalry Games
IU and MSU — The Old Brass Spittoon
NW and Ill —  The Land of Lincoln Trophy (bronze statue of a stovepipe hat)
tOSU and Ill — The Illibuck (a wooden statue of a turtle)
tOSU and PSU — There is no trophy here. Buckeyes lead the series 13-12-2.
Purdue and IU — The Old Oaken Bucket
Ill and Purdue — The Purdue Cannon
Iowa and Minn — Floyd of Rosedale (a bronze statue of a pig)
Iowa and Wisc — The Heartland Trophy (a bronze statue of a bull)
UM and tOSU - There is no trophy here. Every Buckeye player and coach earns a charm of gold pants following each victory over Michigan.
UM and MSU — The Paul Bunyan Trophy (a painted wooden statue of Paul Bunyan)
UM and Minn — The Little Brown Jug (a jug with M's painted on either side)
UM and PSU — There is no trophy here.
Minn and Wisc — Paul Bunyan's Axe

Minn and PSU — The Governor's Victory Bell
MSU and PSU — The Land Grant Trophy (the ugliest trophy on earth)
Iowa and Nebraska — Heroes Game Trophy

BuckeyeChief's picture

UM vs OSU had a name...the Big Ten Champsionship trophy!

 

"Clutch has no boundaries"

JLP36's picture

Absolutely.

And don't piss down my back and tell me its raining.

JLP36