Friday Skull Session

By poguemahone on December 24, 2010 at 6:00a

Eat it, Good King Wenceslas. First thing's first: Happy Holidays. Whether you're celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Chrismahanukwanzakah, Festivus, or nothing at all, best wishes to you and yours. Enjoy a non-denominational, underrated holiday classic by one of yours truly's favorite bands, The Pogues.

 You and your high-top sneakers and your sailor tattoos, and your old '55 that you drove through the roof... For those of you who didn't catch it during yesterday's anarchy, Ohio State AD Gene Smith weighed in on just why the players committed these violations:

Smith said the players sold championship rings and other items to help their families during a rough economic time. While not condoning players' actions, Smith said they went into the decisions "with the right intent, to help their families." 

This situation certainly refuels the debate about whether college players should be paid -- Ohio State safety Jermale Hines defended his teammates here and here -- but it's a tough argument for Smith to win. Pryor and his teammates get a lot of perks simply for being Ohio State football players, not the least of which is a free education. And they're certainly not the only people in Columbus dealing with a tough economy. 

While a lot of folks are jumping on the tattoo thing, this situation was about money. 

"The discount on tattoos is not as big as the other pieces," Smith said. "The cash was relative to family needs. The bigger violation is the cash." 

As someone who has advocated for a system player pay in the past, and as someone who is presently a poor college student, I can empathize. But everyone reading this has probably also been a poor college student at some point, and they didn't get free meals, free room and board, and 24-hour tutor help in all of their courses. Times are hard, but no matter how hard the times are, violations are violations, and should not be excused, as Smith rightfully acknowledged. We are not a program that consistently thumbs it nose at the NCAA, no matter how haphazard, misguided and antiquated it may be in applying its rules. Hopefully, the appeal by the OSU AD knocks a couple games off of the suspensions, but I wouldn't count on it.

 Hey, other things did happen yesterday. Except they didn't really, but people did write some more about the Sugar Bowl. The Dispatch covered the chaos in full, but also took the time to offer two Sugar Bowl previews. One seems more relevant than ever now:

The Buckeyes are loaded at running back for the foreseeable future in terms of numbers and potential. Call it a future conundrum for the coaches, senior linebacker Ross Homan said, but don't call it a problem.


Now there are murmurs that Herron might forgo his senior season and enter the NFL draft.

Prior to yesterday's catastrophe, Herron leaving early for the NFL seemed like a reach. He doesn't have great size, has merely adequate speed, and hasn't shown a penchant for breaking tackles until the latter part of this season. Now, it seems like an inevitability if he gets a good recommendation from the NFL draft advisory board. It's not like he'll be leaving behind a bare cupboard: Jordan Hall and Jaamal Berry are the next big things at tailback, while Carlos Hyde and Rod Smith will each be vying for more than a back-up role in the Ohio State offense.

 Meanwhile, in other Sugar Bowl previewing The Arkansas defense, and leader at linebacker Jerry Franklin, gets a fluff piece:

A year ago, the Razorbacks couldn't. They finished 89th of 120 Football Bowl Subdivision teams in total defense. Heading into the Sugar Bowl on Jan. 4 against Ohio State, this year's Razorbacks rank 33rd. They are giving up 61 fewer yards per game than in 2009.


In preseason practice, Franklin was shifted from middle linebacker to weak-side linebacker before being moved back. Once the season began, Franklin asserted himself as the defense's leader. "He has a great understanding of what we're trying to get done," defensive coordinator Willy Robinson told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. "He's a very fluid football player, and he's quick to react." Franklin has 93 tackles this season, again the most on the team. He was named a second team all-SEC player.

Franklin isn't exactly Mr. Unblockable or anything, but he's enough of an impact player that the Buckeyes will need to make sure he's accounted for on every play in the Sugar Bowl. He, along with DE Jake Bequette, the team's leader in sacks, are vital to Arkansas' defensive gameplan.

 Big Ten bowl season is upon us. And it's not looking good for a majority of the conference's teams. Four games against SEC teams, only one game in which the Big Ten team is favored (Arkansas-Ohio State until it got taken down), and of course, with the locations of each bowl game, each one is more or less a de facto road game for the Big Ten team. But hey, things looked ugly last year, and the Big Ten emerged with a winning record and two BCS bowl winners, and could replicate that feat again this year. Still, the raw numbers remain ugly:

Prior to last year’s 4-3 bowl record, for which the conference did a lot of patting itself on the back, it hadn’t posted a winning postseason record in seven years.

Since 2003, the Big Ten has compiled a 19-31 overall bowl record.

Since 2003, the conference has gone 3-5, 3-3, 3-5, 2-5 and 3-5 before bottoming out with a 1-6 record in 2008, a collective failure so great it spawned fears of a slow fade into sepia-toned memories and a lot of hysterical hand-wringing.

The Big Ten's newest addition, Nebraska, gets an easy draw when it faces Washington, a team it shellacked 56-21 in Seattle last September. For everyone else, it's an uphill battle. But if Iowa aren't as bad as they looked in the latter half of the season, and if Michigan State surprises against Alabama, all the hand-wringing will be for naught.

 Other news and notes. Penn State dodged a bullet when Steve Addazio was hired at Temple rather than longtime assistant Tom Bradley, forgoing a major staff overhaul for at least another season... Purdue DE and former Buckeye terrorizer Ryan Kerrigan is thankfully getting ready for the NFL draft... Iowa - still basically the team that went and won an Orange Bowl a year ago were it not for suspensions and injuries to key players - is trying to put the last few weeks of the season and post-season behind them... and there's still a chance RichRod could be let go in the offseason, but Michigan players need to focus on their bowl game against Mississippi State regardless.


Comments Show All Comments

buckeyedude's picture

I just don't understand why the NCAA can't allow the players to receive a stipend of like $300 a month to help these kids. Not for their families, which isn't the school's responsibility. But college athletes do not have time to work a job, go to school and play a D-I sport. And many come from poor families. It might not stop this kind of stuff completely, but I think it would help.

I believe Herron, Pryor and Posey will forgo their senior year if they are going to have to miss half the season. So much for Pryor's assertion that he'll stay "until he breaks all the records" at OSU. I haven't been too impressed with Posey's play this year, either. And Herron is no Beanie, for sure.

I think RichRod has a better chance at keeping his job than these kids do of returning for their senior season, IMO.

They sold their souls(and their gold pants) to the Devil.



Michael's picture

They apparently get a weekly living stipend, but I'm not sure for how much. I agree with you though; they get a lot of perks for being a student athlete on scholarship, but there are also a lot of outside costs associated with college.

The big thing for me is Pryor selling his Gold Pants. Everything else? Meh. The 2008 Big Ten Championship ring? Posey was behind Ray Small on the depth chart and I'm pretty sure neither Adams or Thomas played. Sure, it was Pryor's first season, but after getting throttled by USC and losing to Penn State and Texas, I don't blame him for not holding it in such a high regard; especially if he could get $1200 for it.

Do I necessarily believe that they didn't know they were breaking a rule? No, but as a recent college graduate, I understand their decision.

I think the fact that they have to pay back the full amount they owe to be re-instated will play heavily in their decisions to turn pro; which I'm guessing Pryor, Posey and Herron all do.

yrro's picture

Yeah, the scholarship helps your future financial situation a lot more than your immediate one.

One possible hole in that story though is that Mik Adams went o Dublin Coffman. Now, maybe his parents spent every penny they own getting a house in that school district, bu it's one of the richest neighborhoods in Columbus.

yrro's picture

Also, there is apparently now a running joke in the band that they selling signed spats to the higher bidder.

MoonDragons's picture

The problem that you encounter when the issue of paying players  arises is that the majority of schools in DI, or whatever they are calling it these days, would struggle to afford it. OSU, Bama, Texas, Michigan, USC, and the other big players in the game would have no problem with it but what about the Western Kentuckys and Kents of the world? They and  most of the rest of "mid-majors" finish in the red every year. Very few teams make money off football. Lets say you paid 100 players $300 a month for 9 months, that equals out to $270K and thats just football

On the issue of what they sold, did you ever get rid of a trophy or an award from when you were younger? Those guys played and earned those items and in theory can do whatever they want with them (except in the eyes of the NCAA, or course).

M Man's picture

This is exactly right.

I really hate the notion, that I see gathering strength in Buckeye nation, that the real problem in all of this is that players aren't getting paid to play college football, when the programs are somehow awash in money.  Most programs are not awash in money.  Even "big time" programs are not awash in money.  OSU is a complete outlier in terms of its football revenue.  And I for one woulld defend all of that revenue that OSU is generating.  They are putting that money to good use, building a sterling-silver football program that the whole state of Ohio can be proud of, and more than anything, using it to pay for dozens of non-revenue-generating sports.

I don't like this situation; I don't like the punishment that was imposed by the NCAA.  If it were up to me, I'd have accepted Gene Smith's proposal of a self-reported secondary violation, along with a suspension of all of the involved guys for the bowl game.  That punishment works, for me, in every way.  It would be a mostly-personal punishment for a purely personal set of infractions.  The matter would largely be done with, with the passage of the New Year season, as it were, and everybody could move on to 2011.  The NCAA could easily have done other enforcement; some mandatory team rules clinic for the players, probation, etc., etc.

But I really don't like somebody like Gene Smith, who should know better, complaining about how players should get some walking around money.  It's a bad idea.  A very, very bad idea.

And more than anything, I think that one of the best AD's in the history of the Big Ten Conference, Andy Geiger, would reject the idea.  Has anybody heard anything from Geiger?

M Man's picture

Okay, here's the answer to my own question.  Geiger did not reject the idea of a stipend; he sort of championed it.  But in a form that apparently already existed for Pryor and company!

A really interesting interview with Andy Geiger from 2005:


Q. You and OSU President Brit Kirwan have both publicly stated your support for a "stipend" (say, $2,000 annually) for scholarship student-athletes beyond paying for their tuition, fees, room, board and books. This would provide discretionary spending money, or "walking around money," as coach O’Brien called it. You worry that some student-athletes come from very poor circumstances, while others with whom they live and associate are much more affluent and have adequate spending money, thus creating in your view, a volatile situation. Please elaborate your position on this issue and give us your opinion of why there’s so little agreement about the legitimacy of such a stipend.

A. We actually have passed that in a form. We can give extra financial aid up to the cost of attendance as defined by the Ohio State Financial Aid Office. Tuition, room, board and books is not cost of attendance. Transportation, living money, some entertainment money, further supplies, art supplies, things like that, you’re allowed to give.

Q. Is this a case-by-case basis?

A. No, it’s a much more general basis than it used to be. There’s pretty broad acceptance of some more money than just tuition, room, board and books, because every single university in the country identifies cost of attendance as the basis for awarding financial aid. I’ve always thought athletics was behind. The reason that it’s been difficult to get it passed is that people can’t afford it, schools can’t afford it. And they don’t want to spend more money on athletics or athletes. So it’s been a political problem. But we’ve made progress.

Q. Can you estimate on a computational basis how much annually a student-athlete might get for this cost of attendance?

A. I don’t know what it is, and it’s complex. But our financial aid people can do that.



ERIC OSU's picture

Edit: The state Penn assistant is *tom bradley, bob bradley would be the current usa men's soccer coach. Haha

741's picture

I'm getting really tired of hearing the same old riff that "they get a free education, free room and board, etc." when the reality is that these guys work harder and for more hours per week than most of us do, or ever will, and the "pay" they receive in return is tiny in relation to what they generate for the university, the NCAA, and for all of us fans.

That said, I don't condone what they have done, and I completely agree that they need to accept responsibility for their actions and suffer the consequences.

The system is a mess, the rules don't make sense, and FBS football players should all be receiving a reasonable living wage along with their scholarships.

I wish some of us would show a little more compassion for the players involved.

yrro's picture

Just to crunch some math, a scholarship to OSU is worth something around $15,000. I'm pretty sure you clear more than that working at Wendy's for a year.

cal3713's picture

What numbers are you crunching?

  • $11,298 - tuition cost for a U.S. citizen, permanent resident, aslyee, or refugee and a legal resident of the State of Ohio;
  • $28,746 - tuition cost for a US citizen, permanent resident, aslyee, or refugee whose residence is outside of Ohio;
  • $13,980 - estimated annual expenses for room, board, insurance, books and supplies
    This means that during their first year on scholarship, out of state players make $42,726 and in state players make $25,278.  And I'd suspect these players actually get more than the standard $14,000 in room and board (which comes out to $1165/month).
tomcollins's picture

Your math is really, really off.

"On average, OSU spends nearly $111,000 a year on each athlete; that includes tuition, room, board and athletics-related expenses."

Jdadams01's picture

Agree with everything you said. Especially the last part. We, Buckeye Nation, pride ourselves on being like a family. Well these kids messed up and now they are going to face consequences. And they are still Buckeyes. I will cheer and support them forever because once a Buckeye, always a Buckeye. If Tressel can still support Mo C after everything he did, I can still support these kids.

To Pryor, Posey, Boom, Adams, Thomas, and Whiting- learn from what you did and move forward. Come back and show Buckeye Nation that you've got it turned around. This Buckeye fan will still support you.

buckeyedude's picture

I mostly agree, JDADAM501. I thought the comparisons to Maurice Clarrett though would only be on SEC boards and from SEC fans. Guess I was wrong.

Comparing Maurice Clarrett to Pryor, Boom, and Posey is egregious and should be left to the TTUN's boards and the SEC's.



Jdadams01's picture

Not really trying to compare them to Mo C. More trying to say that if Tressel can forgive what Clarrett did, being much worse than Pryor, Boom, etc., than I can forgive these guys and their infractions. I don't think their stuff is anywhere near Mo C's level. Just trying to get some other Buckeye fans to back off a little on these guys because too many people are going overboard on bashing them.

ERIC OSU's picture

"these guys work harder blah blah blah".. Haha wow u are delusional.

ERIC OSU's picture

Look bro I don't try to spark arguments with my fellow buckeye fans because I consider all of us on this blog "family" (excluding M Man ), and we all know the hard work and prep these athletes put into refining their skill sets; but to say that any other profession can't match the time and effort is just absurdity.

741's picture

Well, for the record, I did not say "any profession" - what I said was "most of us" and I stand by the comment. These guys are elite athletes and the amount of work that goes into that alone is a full time job - I'm pretty sure we all can agree on that. Then add on top the job of being a full time student - which is admittedly not difficult at all in the greater scheme of things, but it does take some time and effort.

AJ's picture

they are still in college...elite would be next level

"Without winners, there wouldn't even be civilization." -----------Woody Hayes

Leanenaud's picture

Seriously. They're called student loans. I took them out for my hardship and whatever I didn't need I sent back to bank. Its pretty simple if you ask me. They get a free education plus...... I have no sympathy.

Am I completely off on this one?

Michael's picture

And I'm sure when you took out that student loan, you had the ability and time to work a job to partially pay back that loan.

I seriously would like to know how many hours an Ohio State player puts into football on a weekly basis (practice, travel, film review, etc.) and compare that directly with his weekly stipend. I'd bet it's significantly lower than minimum wage.

I don't think we should institute a pay-for-play system, but it would definitely say something for a player like Pryor (star QB on a Top 10 team) to leave college with student debt; especially when a university profited however many millions of dollars off them.

Leanenaud's picture

Uh no. Like most other people I know I'm paying back my debt. I was very busy in school and didn't have time to earn money to pay back my loan. I'm now a professional because I got my education. I now earn enough money to live and repay.

I also didn't have a full scholarship and had to use loans for school. These kids are getting a free education. I didn't get a free education.

Granted I wasn't a student athlete. But I contributed to the success of my school through my hard work and dedication.

I feel like a lot of people have sympathy for these guys and they shouldn't. A lot of people are going to school and unable to work because they don't have the time or the program they're in won't allow them to work. You should know what you're getting yourself into as a young adult. And if you weren't educated on how difficult it might be, then you just have to learn the hard way.

yrro's picture

And I bet you made your school $46 million dollars last year, too.

A normal student is not providing the university a service. When you look at what the university gets out of its relationship with a student athlete, a free education is peanuts.

Leanenaud's picture

It's what you sign up for. I'm not saying these kids don't make the university money. I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid. But it's amateur sport. They are students and there are ways for them to get themselves money through loans. Plain and simple. Don't you think it would have been smarter for TP and company to take out a couple grand in loans instead of selling their shit?

These kids are geting an opportunity like no other. Playing on one of the greatest stages in all of sport. What's that worth? They should have no trouble succeeding in life and making money somehow in the future if they're not absolute tards.

741's picture

I think everyone agrees they should not have sold the memoribilia - that's not the point. The point is they made a mistake, so far it appears they have been honest about what they have done, and they have expressed remorse.

The question is if they accept responsibility for their actions, handle the punishment,  and do their best to make amends do they deserve a compassionate response from Buckeye Nation?

I believe they do. 

Leanenaud's picture

I'm all about forgiveness. But this still doesn't solve the problem about kids trying to get money. Everyone needs money. The NCAA should really look into interest free student athlete aid. Make money easily available to the kids and give them financial education. I agree that they generate revenue and should be given more consideration and opportunity when it comes to money. But paying student athletes is a slippery slope. Something that needs to be addressed for sure.

741's picture

Agreed. I'd support any fair and reasonable approach to ease the financial burden on some of these kids. Expanding the "opportunity fund" that Gene Smith commented on recently, or interest-free loans, or some other methodology I haven't thought of... I do not mean to imply the kids should necessarily be treated as paid professionals.

btalbert25's picture

Honestly, The NCAA should just let kids sell this kind of stuff.  If they can sell it off as soon as they are done playing they should be able to sell it now.  Who are we to judge a kid for selling trophies and awards.  The kids played the games, they have memories and video to remind them, they don't need a ring or trinkets to commemorate it.  If they want to sell them, as long as a booster or someone isn't giving them 100,000 for something worth 1,000, I've got no problem with it. 

Yes, these players are definitely much different than your average student.  I know when I went to college, my school never got to sell jerserys with my number on it that every fan ran out and bought.  These kids make the schools and NCAA in general a ton of money, the overwhelming majority of students don't generate a dime for the university.  You really can't hold them to the same standard as other students. 

 We make them more important than regular people/students.  When fans line up for their autographs, when thousands run out to buy whatever the new Nike jersey is with a number 2 on it, we are sending them a message that they are more important than others. 

Irricoir's picture

Often, student loans aren't repaid until after college. There are options depending on whom you deal with and type of loan.

I don't always take names when I kick ass but when I do, they most often belong to a Wolverine.

buckeye33's picture

Rumor:  Several 2011 Buckeye recruits are offering on EBAY "gold pants" for beating Michigan in 2011-2012-2013-2014. 

We still are "the Ohio State University" and we reload & not rebuild. The cupboard is not bare, we have great athletes and great recruits, we just have to see who steps up  !!

Another Jason's picture

This.  I'm surprised at all the "We'll lose 2 or 3 of our first 5" comments that have come out of this.  If all of these guys had already announced they were going pro, would people be saying that?  Of course not, we'd all be excited for their last game as Buckeyes in the Sugar Bowl and then anticipating checking out the new group in the spring (after celebrating another fantastic season from Matta's crew, of course).  

We may not like how it's going down, but at least we KNOW we won't have those guys right away (if at all) and can prepare for it.

Brutus's picture

I think the more appropriate, and obvious, comparison is to what Smith did. He made a terrible mistake, paid the consequences (which ended up being huge to ohio state in the way of a loss to texas) grew from the experience, and became the player/person he is today. If these kids can embrace this experience the same way, then so be it. Life is full of experiences which shape us as adults. The difference is that for most people, our growth doesn't happen in the public eye, like it happens for some of these guys, particularly Pryor. I'm disappointed in what they did because it's an insult to everything i love about buckeye football. But they didn't commit a crime. They didn't do anything which is unforgivable. The question i have is whether these kids will learn anything from this. I'm skeptical about pryor. He's gotten better as a qb, but the maturity has been very slow to follow. He may not be a lost cause, but then again, he may be. I'm ok with giving all these kids second chances and seeing what comes of it. That said, i firmly believe tressel should suspend these guys for the sugar bowl. We will definitely lose if they don't play, but this will send a positive message. Not to mention that i sincerely doubt any of these guys, save for thomas, will be back next year, in which case the opportunity for one of those life lessons will have been entirely lost. In my opinion, not being suspended for the bowl game, not the five games, is what reeks most about the ncaa's ruling.

cowboy's picture

Agree, leave them in C-bus

Buckeye Black's picture

If the NCAA had a brain, Boom would be out for 5 games, the tattoo people would be out for 3, and the ones that only sold personal awards and rings would be out 2. It is ridiculous you can't sell your own stuff.

Ultrabuckeyehomer's picture

I agree that what the players did is hardly the worst thing we've seen out of college athletes or will see going forward. They did not commit a crime or intentionally cause harm to anyone else.  There was nothing malicious about it.  The kids deserve to be forgiven if they do the rights things moving forward.  They are not bad people for doing what they did and I have no problem welcoming them back.  

That said, I can see how fans are irked about the specific items sold - gold pants, really guys? That does bother me and will always impact the way I view Pryor.

I also believe its absurd and inapproproate to not immediately suspend them.  I understand the NCAA said go ahead and let them play, but that doesn't/shouldn't prevent the school and staff from suspending the players. It looks wrong.  Either they deserve to be punished or not, if yes, then punish them.  Its weird.

Also, as to next year, this really hurts our chances to make a run a the MNC.  I fully expected Pryor to come back, along with Adams and Boom.  I assumed Brewster and Posey were gone.  Now after this, I think all will go even if not happy about where they will be drafted.

Freshman QB does not a championship team make, no matter how good he is 

yrro's picture

Personally I am fully ready for the Kenny Guiton era. I think people get a little too caught up in the recruiting hype.

These guys should be gone for the bowl game and 1-2 more games after. When you compare what kind of suspensions kids get for *much* worse violations (in spirit) than selling stuff they thought they owned, that would seem fair *and* avoid the massive hypocrisy of NCAA compliance.

As for what they sold, that is between them and Buckeye nation whether it is something that can ever be forgiven.

theDuke's picture

I know the rules, but the truth is, these guys had something another person wanted to purchase.  Everything is for sale, for the right price...right?  The NCAA and OSU and Nike don't mind rippin' off a couple #2 jerseys, calling them authentic and then selling 'em to fans at $150 some odd a pop.  How much revenue does that generate for the guy that wears #2?  I wouldn't sell my gold pants, if I had any, but that's me.  The way I see it, these guys sold what was theirs.  What's the wrong in that? There has got to be a new solution for the NCAA and the players going forward.   


theDuke's picture

and yrro-  BRING ON BRAXTON!!!!


TLB's picture

It is what it is and is time to move on. 

That said, the NCAA is showing their hyprocracy again by letting them play the bowl game.

We'll be fine next year, no need to panic.  Tress may be able to get back to his comfort zone if he doesn't have to coddle one or more of these student-athletes.

jack's picture

Checking in for the first time in quite some time.  I knew you guys would be all over the ebayification of buckeye trinkets.

I think it boils down to a matter of property rights.  Did the players own that stuff or did the university?


As for Terrelle not coming back, I would expect not given the circumstances, which is a damned shame as he could've been in the running for the Heisman, and more importantly he could've been the only Buckeye quarterback to beat Michigan four times.


The hypocrisy of the NCAA is beyond appalling.  If these offenses are that bad, then they should not play in the bowl game.

iball's picture

The "Tat-Five" just shit on my Christmas, that's real talk.

You can break it down however you want, but 18-21 year olds should know better, whether the rules suck or not.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

gwalther's picture


Class of 2008

JakeBuckeye's picture

Yes its shitty, yes it sucks. But lets be honest, even though we joke, if this truly "shits" on your Christmas then your priorities need to be re-set.

iball's picture

@JAKEBUCKEYE, how can you talk about priorities at a time like this, I just made my 4 yr old PERSONALLY return all her gifts over this and then dropped the "Santa don't exist" bomb on her, those are priorities.....JK.

It's not that Im worried about losing any of the 5 to suspension. It just really bothers me that our supposed "leaders" were the ones who did it. Especially TP who is supposed to be closest to the Vest. Just stupid. I never rip a kid for his grammar, interviews, comments, attitude, but when your actions affect the whole team, that really sucks. I think Boom and Thomas will be the ones who suffer most.

“There’s one thing I have learned through all my adventures and conquests - it’s that some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great - I just am great.” – Kenny Powers

cal3713's picture

For IBALL - Gotta love Christmas...

Colin's picture

At least it's not in a brown paper bag thats on fire and sitting on your porch.

buckeyedude's picture

LOL Cal3713! My 20lb. Boston Terrier has bigger shit than that!

On the other hand, I wonder how much Terrelle could sell those turds for? LOL! He'd have to autograph them some how...IMO.