Polling in early AugustSetting aside the absurdity of conducting a poll before fall camps have even kicked off, the Coaches released their initial poll of the 2009 season on Friday and the Buckeyes checked in 6th1. The top five: Gators, Longhorns, Sooners, Trojans and Tide.
That spot is probably a bit generous -- the Coaches Poll is always high on tradition (see the #24 spot in their 2008 preseason poll). Don't be surprised to see the Buckeyes down a spot or two when the AP poll comes out and maybe close to the edge of the top ten when the BlogPoll debuts later this month.
But this is where the reward part of the USC proposition kicks in. Sure, you might get annihilated (and odds are you will), but if you beat the Trojans and you win out, the polls become irrelevant. For now, Ohio State's placement in polls is fun to talk about, but little else2 until games are actually played, including that huge gut check in week two.
Another fun aspect to the polls is trend-spotting, and mid-majors are starting to muscle the Big East out of the rankings. Between laughs, allow the Big Ten's meager showing of three teams bring you back down. Five used to be routine. Is it crazy to worry about population shifts and their impact on college football?
Mumme Time: On top of our duties with the BlogPoll, we'll also be participating in Get the Picture's Mumme Poll this season. The poll is a little different: the first votes aren't even cast until after week six games are played and "the Mumme Poll has its voters submit their lists of the top twelve teams in the country, without ranking (other than to designate the top five of those twelve, for use as a tiebreaker)".There are three things that make this work: we're fans of late-start polling, submitting teams in batches of peers could reduce some bias and the move allows us to expand the 11W brand and consumer experience into fertile Dixie. WE ARE COMING FOR YOU, PIGGLY WIGGLY.
- 1 The Wolverines received one point in ORV, meaning one coach thinks they're the 25th best team in the land. Would he?
- 2 DISNEY/ABC/ESPN/TOPPS/BRAWNDO may disagree. After all, four vs six matchups are typically prime time gold.
Comments
The AP poll is referred to as the Absolute Pointless Poll.
I would have voted Ohio St. number one, just sayin'.
Then you are absolutely clueless and should have your hands cut off so you can never type something that stupid ever again. What on earth makes you think the Bucks have any chance of beating USC? Have you watched any of the games after the 2006 Michigan game? 31-13 if we are lucky to even score an offensive TD. With Tressel calling the plays, Bollman coaching the line, and Heacock in charge of the defense, 10-3 at best this year.
Are you mocking my 11W brand and consumer argument from earlier this week? Hurtful.
I always thougt it best to begin polls at least 4 weeks into the season. With perception being so important in college, peoples opinion, unfortunately, matter. The play on the field should speak for itself and not some writer for the AP who has an agenda. This would be like journalists picking the NFL playoff teams prior to the season.
Hey, dont be a fool, somebody said we were number 2, but were number 1!!! GO BUCKS!
Polls are for the fans to talk about.
Teams that are overrated will drop out as the season goes along and teams that are undervalued will move up accordingly.
See Bama 2008.
They were both undervalued at the start of the season, then overvalued at the end, quite a rare feat.
Congrats on that accomplishment Crimson Tide...
tOSU might be a tad high at #6 but they are worthy of being in the top 8 IMO.
HD
I forgot to add that this year, at #5, Bama is definitely overvalued.
How do you lose as much as they lost and come in at No. 5 and the team that thumped them in the Sugar Bowl, Utah, had similar personnel losses and they are what 18th?
It does show that the polls are biased and somewhat pointless this early, but again, it will sort itself out when teams like Bama lose 3-4 games this year.
Coaches admit they don't even watch the games. I think they go with their gut more than anything. It goes to show how much respect the Buckeyes have despite the alleged "national perception".
If you'll convince Piggly Wiggly to stock Cincinnati Chili, you are more than welcome to invade the South. Heck, if you can convince Skyline to open a franchise in Chattanooga (a petition I've submitted regularly to no avail) I'll publicly forgive the Big Ten for Jim Delaney.
As for Utah not getting the love that Alabama gets this season, Alabama's personnel losses are being a bit overstated. No one is questioning USC at 4 despite losing TEN starters on defense, and for good reason--they are replacing them with equally talented players. The QB situation at UA is essentially like replacing Bellisari with Krenzel and the defense only lost one real contributor while returning several kids from last season who were only freshmen (the Tide gave significant PT to 16 different freshmen). I don't think that the coaches actually have taken that into consideration or really anything deeper than "intact defense + Julio Jones = #5" but similar questions abound for all the teams in the top ten not named Florida, which is really why polls shouldn't vote preseason. Statements like " when teams like Bama lose 3-4 games this year" are based on no more information than what is used to vote them #5.
I think Michigan State is really being overlooked, probably because of their poor performance against OSU and PSU last year. But they went toe-to-toe with Georgia in their bowl game. I don't think they're top ten material, but neither is LSU. They only reason everyone loves them is because they beat up on a weak AGC (Atlantic Ghost Conference) team in their bowl game. Yet somehow getting drilled by a 7-5 LSU squad didn't hurt GaTech's national perception because they're ranked and MSU is not. Go figure.
I agree with this somewhat. When I inevitably turn full hypocrite and vote in a preseason poll, I'll have Michigan State in the top 20, but I'll also have Ga Tech there. I don't think you can judge based on anecdotal evidence from just one game. If you could, then Tech deserves the benefit of the doubt for beating the UGA team that beat MSU.
Yes, but I'm not saying GaTech shouldn't be ranked. I just find it strange that MSU is not. I also wonder why LSU is ranked so high.
Please..... with the USC trumpeting! - The PAC-10 is a division of cupcake games. Who's in there for God's sake? When was the last time there was any competition for them? Mark May derides the Big Ten, what about the Pac-10?
The pac-10 went undefeated in bowl games just last year.
Sam: Loving everyone but Ohio State since 2003.
So did Rutgers.
It's all a matter of who you play. Texas was better than Okie St., Georgia was better than BYU, Missouri was better than Pitt, FSU was better than Miami. The only thing you can really say in regards to the Pac 10 vs. Big 10 in 2008 is that USC was better than any Big 10 team. But over the last 5 years (or 7, or 10, or 12, etc.) the Big 10 has consistently placed more teams in the final top 25 than the Pac 10. USC is great, the rest of the conference is barely better than the MAC.
You know, I honestly didn't even put that together when I wrote this.
Sorry, I guess using facts makes me less of a Buckeye.
Still, Joe, undefeated is better than 1-7. I think both Ohio State and Penn State would have beaten every team the Pac-10 played in the postseason, outside of Okie State perhaps, but you don't think Wisconsin, Michigan State et al would have a tough time with Miami and BYU?
So, Joe, let me get your reptile logic straight:
Rutgers beating NC State by 6 points is the same as Arizona beating #16 BYU, Cal beating Miami, Orgeon beating #13 Oklahoma State, Oregon State beating #20 Pitt, and USC curb-stomping #8 PSU.
Right. That's the same thing. Pac-10 played bad teams. Well argued.
So:
MSU narrowly losing to a sleep-walking Georgia team = Rank them high!
Georgia Tech curb-stomping the very same Georgia team in a rivalry game = something you gloss over.
How can you argue against Georgia Tech, when they destroyed the same Georgia team that sleep-walked through the Michigan State game and still won? Somehow MSU's "close loss" should count in their favor?
Not to nitpick, but MSU lost "narrowly" by twelve points, yet a three-point win in Athens is a curb-stomping?
I meant "close" sarcastically. I admittedly rememberd the Georgia/GT game being more lopsided.
Yeah, Bama IMO is the most over-rated. I'd put LSU before Bama. Bama will be lucky to score 20 points a game.
Four Star DB Joshua Shaw (out of Cali) is apparently listing Ohio State as his leader. I'm not a Bucknuts premium member so I would appreciate it if someone could elaborate on this. Very good news indeed. To get Joyner and Shaw in the same class would be sick nasty.
Shit, Vico is always on top of these things:
Kurelic called it the most genuinely positive review a recruit (who didn't commit on the spot) has given about an Ohio State visit in all his years covering Buckeye recruiting.
(Per OHD)
The Pac-10 also went 1-6 vs. the Mountain West. We shouldn't be getting into who's better, the Big 10 or the Pac 10...the Pac-10 went 4-1 against the Big Ten, and 5-0 in bowls, but they also posted the worst record against a non-BCS conference than any other major conference, and they had the two worst BCS teams in Wazzou and UW.
2008 is history, the Big Ten had one of its worst years in decades. We don't know what will happen this year, that's why the games are played. As long as they stay healthy, the Buckeyes are going to give USC a fight they've never seen.
Tidefan, do you forget that you're also a mere one year removed from losing to Louisiana-Monroe at home en route to a 7-6 season? The year before that you went 6-7. If anything, 2008 was the fluke, and without your starting QB and RB, you're good for at least 3 losses, probably 4 with that SEC schedule.
You got creamed by Utah in your bowl...'nuff said.
Ha! I'll take that bet. Nick Saban is ten times the coach Shula ever was, and that alone, given the stockpiled talent, is good enough for nine wins at 'Bama. Who beats them? They get LSU in Tuscaloosa and Florida isn't on the regular season schedule. Do you really think rebuilding Tennessee or Auburn is gonna give them a scare?
'Bama won't finish the regular season with more than two losses. Saban is turning them into the USC of the east, they way he's recruiting.
Sam,
I don't think Wisconsin belonged in a bowl game of any kind last year, but I do think Mich St. would have handled Miami and BYU.
Mr. Internet,
I thought Oregon's win over Okie St. was impressive, but Ohio State taking Texas to the limit was just as impressive because Texas is a better team than Okie St. And no, I was not impressed by Oregon St.'s 3-0 victory over Pitt. After all, Pitt lost to Bowling Green. And who really cares about Cal beating Miami; both teams were unranked. I though Northwestern taking Missouri to overtime was more impressive than Arizona's victory over BYU, because I thought BYU was overrated all along. Missouri was not.
USC of the east? Are you high?
Two top-ranked recruiting classes in a row, have the 5th ranked one so far in 2010, and they got an undefeated regular season out of John Parker Wilson.
If Florida doesn't have the mantle already, 'Bama soon will.
One school attracts sanctions, the other deflects them. Things are looking up, but those are strong words.
Vico caught this at OHD too: Rob Rose and Ray Small did not report to camp
http://twitter.com/kgordonosu/...
That last "anonymous" comment was from me. I have no idea how my name got left off.
What are you trying to say? That MSU should not be ranked at all?
I never said I thought they should be ranked higher than GaTech. But for the record, the two teams had identical records last year. On what basis do you rank GaTech and then leave MSU out?
Bucksfan, we're two years removed from losing to La-Monroe (that occurred in 2007...this is 2009). Besides, I would think a Buckeyes fan would want to avoid discussing single-game results with an SEC fan. I am interested to see what "3 losses, probably 4" you are looking at. The popular choice is of course Va Tech first, because this season it would seem that that great Va Tech defense (that lost 4 games last season including the season opener vs. East Carolina) will be permitted to stay on the field so that their 90th ranked offense from last season (not two years ago) won't have to play against Alabama's defense. LSU (one year removed from 3-5 in the SEC) in Tuscaloosa? Ole Miss (who has not beaten the Tide since 2004 or in Oxford since 2001)? South Carolina? Kentucky? Where are those losses coming from? In order to determine that Alabama is going to lose those games, you have to assume that every question the Tide has entering the season will be answered to the negative, and every team Bama will play has no issues of their own.
We do have the best player in college football at QB. Just sayin' we have a chance.
You have to get a few breaks to win all your games. USC is the only team that will push this team, but they don't have a great qb and the dline of Ohio State is str8 up nasty.
Pryor is a different player then last year. The playbook will be wide open. This years O will avg. 40 a game mark it down.
The two are entirely independent of each other. If similarity in records last year was justification for ranking this year, Utah would be number one since they were undefeated and beat Alabama by three more points than Florida did. If you believe Ga Tech should be ranked higher than Michigan State, then getting Ga Tech right has nothing to do with getting Michigan State wrong. If you believe the Spartans should be higher than Ga Tech, then you've got the start of an argument. If you're argument is that they have similar records and therefore should be ranked, I know a few Red Raiders who would like to talk to you.
Actually, the only thing I said was that I think MSU should be ranked, and that I think they're not getting the respect they deserve. The other comments were simply to support the point. As for GaTech, it's nice that they beat the 'dawgs, but getting beat by 30+ against an unranked team in your bowl game is not an asset on your ledger.
This is the quote that everyone's giving you a hard time about:
Yet somehow getting drilled by a 7-5 LSU squad didn’t hurt GaTech’s national perception because they’re ranked and MSU is not. Go figure.
The thing is, it's not like the PGA where they set a cut line and if you're better than that you're in no matter how many that qualifies. There are only 25 spots, so just because a team doesn't have that top 25 feel doesn't mean they aren't still one of the 25 best. If you're argument is that Michigan State is top 25 quality, then you can't just say they should be included, you have to demonstrate who needs to be removed in order to make room for them. You submitted two examples (LSU and Ga Tech) that got in despite what you regard as a similar resume to Mich State, but you also are stating that they both belong in the top 25. Who are you removing to make room for State?
the only problem with starting polls 4 weeks into the season is a lot of teams still havent gotten into there schedule yet. week 8 i beleive would make a lot of sense. every team has played at least 2 or 3 really important games and some 4. Also, by week 8 conference schedules are well on there way. Sounds like a good time to start to me
You also have to look at recruiting classes and the value of players coming back. And yes, I know. Utah flat out embarrased Bama. But do you really see it happening again? Bama is higher because they are bama. They get the top recruits while utah has to get what they can.
I'm just going to say that you shouldnt over look ole miss. You may when that game but it will be close. they have a hell of a qb. I do believe most of that team is returning. Could be a surprise in the sec this year. but i really wouldnt be to concerned about tenn or aub either. they havent been relevant for awhile. I also dont see georgia doing much either
i'm a big ten fan and i dont even think michigan state should be ranked. They lost there starting qb that was crappy at best. plus all there offense with there running back gone. last year georgia handed them the game and the offense couldnt take it. the d kept them in that game as long as they could but got tired while the offense did absoluetely nothing. they should not be ranked in the top 20 or 25.
Sorry, I misunderstood your point.
My comment about LSU was due to the fact that they are ranked in the top 10 after finishing 8-5 last season. I don't think they're top 10 but probably more like 18-20 range. As for GaTech, where they are is fine. Who would I remove? Probably Boise State. Fair enough?
As you say, Hoyer left a lot to be desired at QB. Kirk Cousins is a substantial upgrade there (check his stats in garbage time last season). The receiving corps is experienced, so Cousins should have a smooth transition. Replacing Ringer is more problematic, but with an improved passing game they will have more balance on offense. The defense should be excellent and they are solid in the kicking game. Combine that with not having OSU on their schedule and I'd say the Spartans are set up for a big season.
I doubt it's possible to overlook Ole Miss. Jevan Snead is a good QB (he's a lot like Matt Stafford), but they sustained key losses just like everyone did. The difference is that reports out of their camp indicate they are having trouble replacing those losses. They have to rebuild their offensive line just like Alabama does, and don't have the benefit of a strong defense to give them time to gel. McCluster and their RBs are good to great, but they lack even a mediocre secondary which is going to allow other teams to stay in the game. The real key is that the strengths of each team will face each other, and the strength of Ole Miss a) failed to get it done last season against this same defense, and b) have lots of question marks on offense heading into this season.
Or to sum up: I respect Ole Miss, but I don't have to believe they will beat Alabama to think they will be a good team. I do believe Alabama will fail to go the entire season undefeated again and Ole Miss is as good a pick as any to beat them, but predictions that will lose 3-4 games is largely just wishful thinking if you look at their schedule. I would say the same goes for Ohio State. It would be unrealistic to pick an undefeated year for the Buckeyes even dismissing the USC game, but where else would you pin a loss?
40!? I hope your right, I think 28-32 is a more reasonable goal.
Oops, "you're" I know how you scUM trolls like to chime in on that stuff.