The Villain, ET -- whatever you call him -- he's going to be nasty next season
Yesterday, Alex took a look at how the 2010 team, with the stellar recruiting class on the way, might stack up and while things look promising long-term, the united projected to take the court this winter should be pretty damn good in their own right.
Before we get into what the lineup might look like, let's try to establish some assumptions about who is staying and who is leaving early. Mullens is gone -- you can argue with whether he's ready or not all day, but we can't fault him for wanting to take care of his family. Though Matta thinks an extra year could be worth as much as $8 million and Rick Pitino seems to agree, I would be shocked if didn't enter the draft.
While BJ may get drafted on talent alone, Evan Turner seems to be the opposite. Already accomplished, having just come off a sophomore season in which he contended for Big Ten POY honors, he would likely be a lottery pick if he elected to enter the NBA draft.
A few weeks ago, news broke that he was returning for his junior season and many of you were rightfully skeptical. Since then, he's done nothing but reiterate that, including immediately after the loss to Siena. There's still the tiniest of lingering doubts, but we're counting him back.
Same for William Buford. He has a shot you want to make love to, but until he learns to play defense and handle the ball a little better, he'll be shredding nets in Columbus instead of the NBA.
So, assuming the departure of Mullens and the return of Turner and Buford, the 2009 Buckeyes could have something they haven't had in a long time - experience and depth. Returning from a squad that finished 22-11 and earned an eight seed in the NCAA tournament are 90% of the minutes, 84% of the points, 85% of the rebounds, 98% of the assists and 92% of the steals.
The old-timerAnd though there are no incoming recruits on the books for next year, the Buckeyes do see the return of one important component as well as potentially two other solid contributors. David Lighty will be a redshirt junior and is the lone connection to the tournament finals run of Oden and Co. The staff gushed about his leadership heading into last season and with another year of experience (albeit watching, studying) under his belt, he could be a two-way force. 2009 will also see the return of Nikola Kecman from season-ending injury as well as our first glimpse of seven-foot transfer Zisis Sarikopoulos.
So, what would the lineup look like?
Warts and all, I think PJ Hill starts the season at point guard. There may be room for a JUCO PG, but indications are anything gained from Mullens/Crater will be put toward 2010. There's a chance Walter Offutt steals some minutes at the point and we could also see a situation where Turner runs the point again, but Hill will improve. Whether he's able to create off the dribble is doubtful, but he will get better at the small things
Junior Jon Diebler will start at the two. He played nearly 37 minutes per game this season and you would have had to have been blind not to notice the improvements he made on defense. While some say he could only drain a three when unguarded, consider that he couldn't even hit those his freshman season. He will be a weapon next season.
Turner is a no-brainer at wing. We all know what he can do and next season he'll be doing all of that, only a bit better. He needs to work on his turnovers, but he could be ready to record only the 2nd triple-double in Buckeye basketball history.
Lighty returns to fill the four and though he may be a bit undersized at this spot, his versatility and defense more than make up for this. Do you think having him on the floor late in the game would have helped against Siena?
Lauderdale is your center and although he had more than his share of cringe-worthy moments this season, he'll improve as well. He may never get to his level, but Terence Dials was not exactly a dominant player in his first couple of years at Ohio State, either. He'll need to improve on his rebounding and toughness, but those can be addressed.
Looking towards the bench, you have the reigning Big Ten Freshman of the Year in Buford coming in to spell Diebler or Turner, Simmons and Offutt providing depth in the backcourt and Kecman, Sarikopoulos and Madsen backing up the bigs.
The lack of a true point guard still scares the hell out of us, as does the team's seeming hatred of rebounding, but you can't argue with some of the firepower outlined above. The Big Ten has a lot of young talent, so winning a conference title will be a challenge, but who knows, Titus may even have a chance to break out of Club Trillion in a couple of early season blowouts.
What about you? Who do you see starting?
Comments
..........ok, so when does spring football start??
Hill, Diebler, Turner, Lighty and Dale will start. Unless Offutt or Simmons come out and show they can run the offense better and create on there own. I really am not sure where this team is going to get better. The defense will be much improved with Lighty back but, he doesnt exactly light up the offensive side of the court. Turner will be a beast again next year and hopefully his turnovers will drop. I dont see diebler doing anything substantial. He will still shoot his threes but will refuse to drive to the hoop. Hill will be great on d and if he gets you 5-7 points thats a positive. But, I dont see him doing that consistantly. The same with dale. Although, I felt as the year went on his defensive intinsity when down the tubes. I really dont see this team doing much different next year. Maybe two or three more wins if everyone stays healthy and their D plays great. They still cant drive to the hoop and rebound. Unless that changes for the better their record wont change any either
Can't believe Buford is even in the discussion.
How can the loss of Mullens hurt? He did nothing but spell Lauderdale a few minutes. It's not like he was a scoring, rebounding, defensive machine. He won't be missed.
I don't know how you keep Buford out of the starting lineup next year. Any improvement on his defense will put him ahead of Diebler who hustles, but isn't quick enough to keep up with most 2 guards and doesn't or can't create his own shot. Buford can shoot from anywhere and I suspect we'll see him taking it to the paint some more next year too (assuming of course that he stays).
Any chance we get a real point guard signed for 09?
I thought Buford was the sixth man of the year? I suspect they may bring Lighty off the bench, but he'll play 30+ minutes a game. He's so versatile that he could play 2, 3, or 4. He always gave the team a boost when he came off the bench his freshman year.
I think Turner starts at the point next year, with Buford, Diebler, Lighty and Lauderdale. ET will improve his ball handling once again over the summer and he is the only one that can drive to the hoop with consistency. I know his turnovers have been a problem, but I would rather have that, than a PG who can't breakdown defenders. Hill will back up Turner and Simmons will be moved to off guard.
With depth, Thad returns to man defense and will turn up the pressure full court.
It's nice to finally see a Buckeye with talent stay longer than 1 season. I am actually tired of seeing powerhouse schools like UCONN, Duke, NC, Kansas have talent but are able to keep their players in school. That shows that their players are focused on learning the game and excelling in school which will only help them at the next level.
Buford was B10 Freshman of the year, Mullens was 6th man of the year
Chances of getting a PG for next year are slim...there are some JUCO guys left that can ball, but we may lose a scholarship because of people leaving early.....looks like they will have possibly one left to toil with, but it seems right now that 2010 will get it
It is a little crazy that the guy that is going to leave is the one who played the least and contributed the least. Maybe he has the most potential, but that is what they said about Ryan Leaf. I will choose the guy with the desire every time. Sure a guy with nothing but desire without talent is a long shot, but there are tons of examples of players with talent and lack of desire to play the game not doing as well as projected.
The return of Lighty will help with the rebounding. As for the rest, Lauderdale needs to learn better footwork and how to hang onto the ball (I think we set a record this season for potential rebounds lost out of bounds). As for the rest, a commitment to playing man-to-man defense will take care of most of it, as will using Turner at the point more often.
Anyone read the story about Mullens' upbringing? Nice story, but is selling meat door-to-door actually legal?
I agree
who has the four teams you mentioned kept in school? especially Kansas
Only in Ohio and Texas!
Buford is "the" diamond in the rough. I expect great things in the future.
Why is everyone having such a hard time accepting the fact Mullens will be an early first rounder at worst?
Listen, we DO NOT need to waste a scholarship on a second hand PG. All the good ones are signed, concentrate on 2010.
I could see Turner running the point, but I think Thad will bring PJ and Simmons along enough to do a better job than this year. PJ was a difference maker most of the time, no one can argue that. Just because he doesnt drop 20 pts and 10 dimes a game doesn't mean he cant be effective.
Lauderdale was basically a freshman this year, he will improve. But the return of Kecman and arrival Sarikopoulos will shore up this problem.
Anyone who thinks this team won't improve much is crazy, the 09-10 Bucks will finish no worse than third in th B10.
UCONN-Thabeet, Price, and there are plenty more
Duke-everyone
UNC-Lawson, Hansbrough, Green, Thompson
Kansas-Collins, can't answer much more
On a football note, this was in good shizzy: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/...
Clemons is Breaston's cousin, but I believe he is also a cousin of TP. I expect him to go to Pitt or WVU maybe, but says he is interested in Pac-10 schools too and not another Big 10 school. Imagine if we did get him though-how bad would that sting up north?
All these MichiscUM de-commits and transfers are what is keeping a smile on my face in this VERY LONG off-season
Thanks Alex
Kansas also had Mario Chalmers who was a junior when he left,
Brandon Rush, Kirk Hinrich, Drew Gooden, oh and there is this one player, can't
think of his name, yeah that's it Paul Pierce.
I have to agree. I like this lineup better with a few of the guys sharing pg roles.. We don't absolutely need a prototypical pg... look at the cavs when MO is on the bench.. or hell even when he is not on the bench.. i see some shared responsiblity of turner and lighty bringing the ball down..
It's not just them, look at Pitt, Louisville, Villanova....on and on.........something about tOSU makes people want to leave like their pants are on fire.
Speaking for myself, I have a hard time accepting he will be a first round pick, he did nothing this season to show he is worthy of that status. If this guy is an early 1st rounder, then where was his talent all year? Koufos was 10 times better than BJ was, at least KK showed different ways to score, not just dunk.
I know they draft on potential, but if I were a GM, I put on the game film and skip right over him in the draft. To me, 8.8 and 4.7 is not impressive when you were the tallest player (and highest rated) in the conference. Here is one more reason: In Ohio State's 33 games, BJ grabbed less than 100 defensive rebounds (99), while playing 20 minutes a game.
Perhaps I am not as frustrated with BJ leaving, as I am this one year rule. It has done nothing but hurt college hoops, which for me is more enjoyable than the NBA.
It's tough because we try to recruit the best players, but when they leave we say we should just recruit guys who will stay 3-4 years. You can't have it both ways. Got to get lucky with kids who want to improve their game and get their education, rather than the kids who want their pay day. If there was no 1-year rule we wouldn't have these kids in the first place and OSU's program may not be as good as it is today because Oden and Cook would have jumped straight to the NBA. All the programs listed above have players who stay a while, but do indeed have players who leave early as well. We just have to turn some luck around and I believe we have this year with Buford and Turner most likely staying.
One word: LEBRON
As much as I would like ET to be LeBron, he ain't close yet
I do think Lughty takes over the 4 spot. But Buford will be in the starting lineup, and if he ever develops the guts to take the pass and immediately go to the dribble, rather than immediately passing it back, he could be the leading scorer on the team, over even Turner. Turner is by far the more well rounded, but I think Buford has better explosive score potential.
But no way does he get bumped out of the starting lineup by a streaky Diebler than struggles to play defense and rebound. That is ridiculous. Diebler will come off the bench and provide instant 3 point threat, a great change of pace guy. But don't dog the Big Bewf like that. He's earned that spot. Like I been saying since pre-season (when whomever covering the Buckeye pre-season practice said that Buford didn't look like he belonged with the other players): The Bewf is the Troof.
this is amazing to me... I don't remember recruits jumping off a ship after a coaching change in mass like this. A coaching change always brings some decommits, but this many should be an alarm to the Wolverine faithful. I really don't give a crap and I absolutely L O V E seeing the enemy camp in dissary, but let's face it--part of OSU"S problem of late has been that the level of competition in the Big-11 has been a bit lacking and it has not prepared us well for the stiffer competition of BCS games.
Go Bucks and Muck Fishigan!
So 5 players leave in 5 years as coach (assuming Mullens goes) and all the sudden there's a huge problem with players bolting after one year??
Sorry, i don't get it.
Im sure if you look at one and done's in the last five years for any of the programs mentioned, the numbers would be very comparable.
I think the one year rule is BS. Theres no problem with a baseball player going pro after high school. Soccer players in Europe are signing BEFORE they finish HS, or whatever they call it over there.
Football is easy, name me one kid who was even close to NFL ready at 18.
Its all a big token gesture.
The spread was a just a fad. There is still nothing better than a balanced attack. A little spread, a little I form, whatever is needed.
DickRod is the true definition of a one trick pony. If it doesn't work, then you're 3 and 9. He couldn't even slightly change to accomodate this years personnel.
Terrible coach, terrible hire. I'll give scUM credit though. They'll catch on in about a year or two and Dick and Rita will be out on their ass. They won't put up with that shit for long, they'll get a real coach, at least i hope.
Michigan recruited 3 4-star WR's in the class of 2009 and have 4 high-level WR commits in the class of 2010. Two are 4-star, two haven't been evaluated yet. Two true freshman started at WR last season and another was redshirted. Where, exactly, do you expect a Junior WR with 106 total yards receiving to play?
Why don't you spend some time talking about how your duplicitous coach ran off two QB's last summer? I know, I know, that was different...
If Buford doesn't learn how to play defense he won't be starting. Next year is looking good with a starting 5 of Turner, Lighty, Buford, Lauderdale, and Hill.
Olfutt, Diebler, Kecman, Simmons and The big Greek give them much better depth than this year. If Mullens comes back they could get to the final four.
So, who was the last head coach who ran a successful offense with no offensive line, quarterback, or consistent running back to speak of?
Pogue, I'd still argue that Nerdwestern had lesser overall talent than Michigan did last season.
Lighty can get to the hole as well. PJ Hill will start Just like I said before last season. We will be going back to man to man next year with Lighty coming back. The rebounding problem was a product of playing zone all the time. Changing back to man and adding a good rebounding guard in Lighty will make them much tougher to beat. If Turner gets a outside jumper this team goes to the final four.
Think how nasty Oden, Cook, Conley, Turner, and Lighty would be...Holy Shit! Mullens, and Kosta off the bench for shits and gigs.
Northwestern in what year? Last year. I wouldn't be so quick to say that.
Ran off 2 mediocre at best QB's for THE BEST all around recruit in recent memory. You keep clinging to your "4-star" ranking receivers, but when you QB is on the ground, or literally crawling to the sideline, as was the case this past november, then your great WR don't mean shit. Enjoy the years of mediocrity to come. Write DickRod a letter and encourage him to only play that 3-3-5 D. We will not complain.....
Last year is supposed to have a question mark after it, btw
Pogue,
So you're sayin Carr woulda waent 3-9 with that team? NO WAY.
All that really matters is that they DID go 3-9
There aint no MF way you're gonna tell me NW had better talent all around than UM last year, no way.
The friggin school recruits itself.
How is a 5 star recruit a "diamond in the rough"?
Funny how they have 4 high level wr's for 2010 when they only have 4 or 5 verbals so far. Tressel didn't run off two Qb's they left so they could get an chance to play. When you recruit the top talent in the nation like Ohio State that happens. Michigan is losing talented players for different reasons. Mainly they don't like the direction of the program. Thanks for Boren though he'll be starting at guard for us next year.
Right, like I said, it's different. I've spent enough time around buckeye homers to know you can rationalize anything. Clemons is leaving because he hates Rodriguez, not because there are more talented receivers with more eligibility. Right.
Oh, and Tampa - 6 commits, 4 WR's (Jackson, Miller, Robinson, Williamson). Two from OH-IO. Thanks. Too bad Michigan can't recruit the top talent like "thee" Ohio St. A whole ONE SPOT behind in 2009 ESPN rankings...
"OSU coaches visited North Carolina, Wake Forest, North Carolina State and Duke this offseason to swap ideas."
That's a hit list of high octane offenses............................
I'm on iBall's side for once.
Yea, who needs defense when you're running the SPREAD!?
Ohio State is number 1 in Rivals and 4 on Scout. Espn didn't like our class because most of the guys didn't play in the army all american game not the UA game on ESPN. I think its pretty clear that Michigan hasn't been getting the same kind of talent Ohio State has in the last 5 or 6 years. If you think Michigan's 09 class is as good as Ohio State's your smokin crack.
My five:
PG: Walter Offut
SG: William Buford
GF: Evan Turner
GF: David Lighty
C: Dallas Lauderdale
Bench
PG: Hill
SG: Diebler, Simmons
F: Kecman
C: Zar, Madsen
See, that's not an easy argument to make. Had Carr not retired, there is a good chance Ryan Mallet and Justin Boren would have stayed, and Adrian Arrington too might not have left for the NFL, Cap One bowl performance or not. Two other offensive lineman, Adam Kraus a starter and Ciulla a back-up, might not have quit football. Again, we're dealing in hypotheticals here, but that's four starters that weren't even on the team last year. The offensive linemen and skill position players who were there would not have had to adjust to a new system. So no, Lloyd Carr might not have gone 3-9, but he wouldn't have done better than 5-7.
Depth-wise, Michigan has more talent. But really, Michigan had four guys who were either career back-ups or walk-ons, and Steve Schilling, a sophomore. Really, that's it. And freshmen. Steve Schilling went from being the worst offensive lineman on the 2007 line to the rock of the 2008 line. That's a bad sign.
Here's a comparison: Alex Boone, Jim Cordle and Steve Rehring leave for the NFL, transfer, or otherwise leave the team prior to 2008. Your starters are who? Ben Person, Andrew Miller, Connor Smith, Browning (who we can agree was bad this year), maybe Brewster? Adams and Shugarts got injured this season, so behind them we have...?
The offensive line is the most important part of any offense and Michigan basically didn't have one last year. It provided us with plenty of lulz, but it's an intellectual cop-out to ignore all this and say "Dickrod" is a bad coach because he couldn't produce a bowl team with Nick Sheridan taking snaps. I mean, come on. Pete Carroll couldn't make a winner out of Nick Sheridan.
And if you're going to knock Rodriguez for the offensive line, how in the hell are you going to give a free pass to Jim Bollman, who had all the talent in the world to work with, and churned out a bumblefuck of an offensive line last year?
iball, I stated that a Buckeye with talent is staying longer. Yes, it is a problem
if 5 players WITH TALENT left Ohio State because it shows we can't get them
to want to stay and possibly win a title. Trust me, I have researched the one
and done thing and the teams I mentioned don't get to the big dance every
year because they have 1 and done's WITH TALENT! We can sit here and debate all day long but I have been watching and playing basketball all my life and you probably won't say anything that I agree with!
[...] Alex took a look into the 2010 recruiting class and Jason previewed next year’s depth, we offer our final installment on the state of Buckeyes [...]
Yes Iball you come up with some amazingly great points followed up with relative factual arguments. Please, dive deeper into this theory that the spread was just a fad with more of your opinionated garbage. What offense did Florida run last year? How about the year they whooped your asses in the national championship game? How about Texas Tech, a school with no national prominence for years? Its obvious Carr would have done a lot better than Rich Rod, cause Carr would've still had his players for his system. Why would Rich Rod stick with his old system to cater to new players? What to go to the G-MAC bowl? To go 5-7 with Nick Sheridan at QB? Since we are hypothetically speaking what would Tressels record be for a walk-on who should've never seen the field who couldn't hit the ocean standing on a boat? Iball you make all of us dumber for having to read your statements. I seriously believe you are a 12 year old kid in his junior high's computer lab.
To Pogue,
My argument wasn't that the talent wasn't there to win, it was, just not running the spread.
Steven Threet was a four star QB recruit, who I think would have played all year with Carr at the helm. I didn't say Carr would have won the B10, just that he would have went at least 6-6 or 7-5.
To GoBlow,
First off, Fuck Michigan. What evidence do you have that the spread works then somehow idiotically comparing Dick Rod and Urban Meyer? Are you friggin kidding me? First of all, Urban meyer coaches defense, Dick Rod doesn't. Dick had NFL talent all over their D and couldnt stop Toledo. That is also the real reason they kicked our ass. Let me guess, because scUM beat them the year after, somehow you guys were really the better team that year too? And if it wasnt for inj's you woulda won the game in Slut Arbor.
Texas tech runs their own variation of the spread dumb ass. This isnt playstation where the spread is the same for all teams. If that was the case then Pat White would have thrown the ball 60 times a game like Graham Harrell. Floridas offense lines up 3 or 4 guys in the backfield on most plays. Dick Rod relys on the qb's running ability, more of a variation of the veer, which was Bobby Bowden's idea, who is the real creator of the spread. Let me guess, you think Dick Rod is some genius offensive innovator and now he will bring some mystic unknown offense to Scum Arbor. Little man, go watch some football and come talk to me in about 20 years when hopefully youve learned something. Oh yeah, get ready for another ass whippin'.
And I qoute "The spread was a just a fad. There is still nothing better than a balanced attack. A little spread, a little I form, whatever is needed." You said spread my man. Every team you listed falls under the category of the spread. Hell the indianapolis colts run the spread. A variation of the spread is a spread offense. Don't make me list all of Rich Rods accomplishments here from taking teams from 3-9 and making them BCS bowl eligible. He did it with WVU he can do it with UM. But no no your opinions are highly factual.
And another thing....they did stop Toledo. They held them to 13 points. The problem is their offense couldn't score. Don't act like you watched the game when in all actuality you read the headlines in the Toledo Blade or some other bullshit article written by some red neck sister fucker from the ohio valley.
Go Blue, you are an idiot. I you really think that every person in Ohio is some drunk hill-billy playing their banjo outside the trailer park then you are seriously mentally incapacitated. That is the most ignorant stereotype I've ever heard in my life. I've only lived in Ohio eight years of my life and it's one of the more high class states in our nation unlike that shit hole you call Michigan. Don't you ever EVER fucking diss Ohio here. Two out of your three pathetic Heisman winners are from Ohio too.