Back in late October, I compared Evan Turner to that of a young Jimmy Jackson and said Matta would lean heavily on him with the game on the line. So far, Turner is doing his part to uphold that projection. Not that many of you went out of your way to disagree but it's definitely a lofty comparison.
Jackson was an absolute magician on the floor. The guy could do everything. To this point, the main difference I see between the two is JJ played with more seasoned teammates, had better handles and was a little more heady leading to about one less turnover per game.
Trust me, I'm well aware of the fact OSU has played exactly five games in a long season but I see no reason to think Turner can't continue to blossom into a college star and future NBA performer. Even with the six TO's against the Irish, he still flashed the same ability Jimmy had of being in the right place at the right time. One example that sticks out is when he jumped from under the OSU basket, saved the ball and dished a perfect bounce pass to Lighty leading directly to a layup all in one motion in a possession that was otherwise lost.
If anything, Turner's progress could be slowed by the fact exactly zero of his perimeter teammates have shown any type of scoring consistency meaning teams will soon dedicate double teams to make other Buckeyes beat them.
Many were quick to jump on the Diebler bandwagon but just as quickly, he reverted back to his three-point-only-shooting alter ego while Lighty and Simmons struggle with consistency issues of their own. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see Buford emerge as the second consistent perimeter scorer but we'll cover that another time.
For now, let's just take a look at how Turner's freshman numbers compare to Jimmy:
| Frosh | MIN | PTS | REB | ASST | STL | TO |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Turner | 27.1 | 8.5 | 4.4 | 2.6 | 1.3 | 2.7 |
| Jackson | 34.5 | 16.1 | 5.5 | 4.3 | 1.3 | 3.2 |
As you can see, JJ stepped on campus and immediately became the second best player on the team behind Perry Carter. That said, he played on an underachieving team featuring solid players Jamaal Brown, Mark Baker, Treg Lee and Chris Jent that were one season from putting it all together.
Jimmy was essentially the point forward similar to Scottie Pippen. Interestingly, he struggled with turnover problems of his own that freshman season averaging 3.2 per contest (1035 minutes played) compared to 2.7 miscues per game from Turner (1004 minutes). That said, JJ's scoring average blows away Turner's as he typically defaulted to Butler, Koufos, Hunter and Lighty, all of which averaged more points per game.
Bottom line, JJ was at an entirely different level as a freshman though I think it's fair to say Turner showed glimpses of things to come (@ Tenn, Minn, @ Mich and Purdue come to mind), he just couldn't sustain any consistency.
Fast forward to 2008 and Turner has done some special things thus far putting up numbers rivaling those of Jackson's First Team All-American sophomore season:
| Soph | MIN | PTS | REB | ASST | STL | TO |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Turner | 27.1 | 16.6 | 7.8 | 3.4 | 3.0 | 4.0 |
| Jackson | 34.5 | 18.9 | 5.5 | 4.3 | 1.8 | 3.2 |
Annoyingly, the turnovers are up but every other category has improved dramatically comparing very favorably to Jackson.
Again, it's just five games but the 6'7" wing is shooting a blistering 56% from the floor, including 50% from distance leading to an extra 8.1 points per game. And check out the boards, he's raking 7.8 per game, an increase of 3.4 per game and 2.3 more than Jimmy pulled down. Sure, those numbers will tumble a bit as the season progresses but I don't think anyone can knock Turner's rebounding ability from the wing.
Even more staggering so far are the 3.0 steals compared to Jimmy's 1.8 per game. Those numbers will decline over time but there's no denying Turner's ability to create steals with his length on the 2-2-1 making him a cornerstone of Thad's defensive approach both in the full and half court.
The one thing that scares me is if his teammates don't step up, not only will other teams key on him but it could slow Turner's basketball IQ growth if he feels the need to try and do too much to compensate. To some degree, it's on him to make his teammates better but he can't physically shoot the ball for Lighty nor force Simmons and Diebler to shoot something other than a three. (Diebler's up to 33 of 44 FGA's coming from deep while Simmons is sitting on 25 of 36. Ridiculous.)
Bottom line, he's not Jim Jackson but there's no convincing me he doesn't have the potential to be an All-American cut from the same cloth as the stat stuffer from Macomber.
Comments
I'm from NW Ohio, and I've actually been on the court with JJ. I graduated in 1987, and in the summer of 1986, my coach set up an "open gym" w/ Macomber (which, if you were around in those days, meant an "optional" scrimmage w/ another school).
Somehow, I ended up rotating in at the same time as Jackson, and it came to pass while I was on the floor that the Macomber squad was able to get an outlet pass to JJ in what turned out to be a 1-on-3 situation - the "3" were our reserve point guard (think Nick Sheridan) up top, and me and my little brother (6'2" and 6'4", respectively - we were forwards at our AA [in those days] school) - and everybody else on the floor hung back to see what JJ would do.
Our buddy the scrappy backup forced Jimmy to make a move at the top of the key - which, of course, he pulled off almost effortlessly - and then he dunked over me and my brother while we fouled him NBA-style - I mean, it was like he was a ladder we were climbing.
I know it's not exactly on the topic, but I know a lot of us have our little stories of interacting with legendary Buckeyes, and I just wanted to share my Jimmy Jackson one.
I also have Tressel, Simon Fraser, and late-70s OSU hockey stories.
I think right now Evan may be better than JJ defensively. JJ has some pretty strong accolades and a better overall body of work, but Evan has alot more work to do.
I definitely see Evan returning for his junior year, where if the NBA operated then like it does now, JJ may have bolted after one. Thats not saying JJ was that much better, just JJ's body was more NBA ready at a young age.
Also, JJ had a better, more experienced team than ET, and I dont think there is a player better right now than Funderburke in the '92 season. Just my opinion, dont kill me.
It is rare that we get a Funderburke as a good player reference. He added a dimension that that buckeye team was lacking but they could never get over the hump. We are 5 games in and I would like to see the Bucks blow out Butler saturday like they did to us last year. This team has some great young players and needs to take baby steps. They need to win games and make the tournament. They need to grow and learn how to keep down to's and force more. Most important is they need to stay in school, it would be great for Mullens to stick around for 2 years and then make a serious run next year. When Ron Lewis hit that shot against Xavier and Connally saved the game in overtime that was the deathnell b/c Mikey went to the NBA. If the Bucks lose that game then this team would have had Mikey leading it last year and the team would not have to play catch up, we are still recovering. I'll withhold judgement for a while, I love the big wins so far but we need more before I start comparing this team to any that won a big ten championship.
http://www.amazon.com/New-Gold...
Are you f’in kidding me??? Who the hell would buy this?? What rise to glory?? Has the world gone mad??
Who is the Irishman Connally that you speak of?
now if we could get mark titus or danny peters to throw on some treg lee overalls, we'd be set for the whole season.
Don't make fun of JoseOle, he just has a little Emmitt Smith in him.
I remember watching Macomber in the '89 state tournament. The thing that stood out most to me about JJ was he wasn't on the floor to dominate and score at will like I thought he might. He was for sure the leader on the floor and made the offense click. He was intent on running the offense and made sure there was flow and rythym. He played with obvious humility, which is rare for someone so talented.
As for my personal history, '89 was also my senior year. My team fell a game short of going to Columbus and a chance to face Funderburke's Columbus Wherle team. However, we were able to take out St. Henry's in the District final. St. Henry's was loaded with football talent with players like Bobby Hoying and Jeff Hartings.
A couple years prior I was riding the pine for our varsity squad when we faced and knocked off #1 Wayne Trace. Present for that game were Gary Williams and Randy Ayers there to scout WT's Steve Hall.
I feel so left out of the basketball conversations. LOL
Funderburke was my favorite player when I was little. I was 10, and for some reason I remember him having an uncanny ability to hit the bank shot from almost anywhere. Who knows, maybe my imagination is making shit up.
But good to see that everyone let their homerism shine thru in the poll. The good 'ol tOSU arrogance. Its not just an opinion by rival fan-bases, its our way of life.
Turner's improvement so far has been remarkable. It's amazing what happens when you continually look to drive the ball. Good point Chris about another wing player stepping up, teams will soon lay off Lighty or Simmons and double Turner.
Great comparison. Hopefully Turner will stay for three years like Jackson did.
blazers - I don't remember Funderburke's bank shot as much as I remember his ability to take a step back and knock down the 10-15 ft. jumper. It wasn't a fade-away, but a simple step back to create space and then he'd knock it down. This happened a lot on the baseline in particular. It was really hard to defend.
The comparison I thought we'd be making right now is Diebler to Burson. Unfortunately, as noted above, Diebler has decided to make his living with the three-ball. He's a good shooter, but an even better scorer. His three will be much more effective if he invests some in the drive and even more in moving without the ball. You don't become the OHSAA all-time scorer chucking three's. Doing so now takes away from his effectiveness.
The Miami game was a good example. When he was active and invloved in the offense he knocked down shots, 2's or 3's. When he parked his butt behind the line it was clank city. He's got a motor and needs to wear out defenses with activity. The shots will come and he'll knock'em down when they come in the flow of the offense.
Jay Burson is one of my all-time favorites by the way.
I remember when I was in high school and bought a dime bag from Ken Yon Rambo. Good stuff and dude knew how to roll a blunt.
You went to high school in California??
Ken Yon Rambo....nice name drop
I remember last week when i blazed a blunt with Santonio Holmes. Dude had the chronic, said Eric Haw put him on tio the guy.
LOL Holmes has been smoking the competition
BrotherBuck - Mighty Archer, did you go to Antwerp? (Just guessing from the second part of your name and all the references to NW Ohio schools.)
Also, regarding Diebler, what I liked about the Miami game was that he was actually playing closer to Upper Sandusky's style of play — run the court, look for passes or easy baskets. The Rams were so dominant when Diebs was there because of the offense that they ran. It opened the floor and forced other teams to try and cover multiple options at once. That allowed him to get wide-open 3s all the time. That's the difference between Diebler of high school and Diebler of OSU. Also, the kid would get into a flow in high school (hit jumpers, layups, etc.) before he would start launching the ball from deep. Of course, Upper Sandusky pressed the holy hell out of people and caused a ton of turnovers that led to said easy baskets.
**Don’t make fun of JoseOle, he just has a little Emmitt Smith in him.**
I would rather be called retarded than compared to Smith, just make fun of me it's okay.
Yes JoeScarlet. I am an Antwerp Archer. Played for Tim Clemmons and because of it, even though I love football 10 times more than basketball, I know about 10 times more about basketball than football.
I didn't know anyone South of Lima and East of Findlay would know Antwerp existed.
By the way, I'm still very bitter about our '89 Regional final loss. We had to play the Irish from Springfield Central Catholic on St. Patrick's Day.
Great write-up, Chris. Turner reminds me of those kids you see with so much athleticism that it sometimes gets difficult to control. His body control will come with age and experience, but the talent's definitely there.
Now I'm just hoping the William Buford we saw in the first few games can find his way back.
Can't wait for Butler. Lord knows we owe them one.
BrotherBuck,
I grew up in Cincy and now work in the heart of NWC, GMC, WBL and MAC country, so yeah, two years ago I had no clue who/what Antwerp was. But now I'm kind of immersed in the whole area-sports thing.
Buford is going to be scary good, and I'm not just saying that cause I'm a shameless Toledo homer. Although I'm heavily motivated by that instinct. Woot 419.
Also, Jim Jackson was from Toledo. Woot.
I like the fact that the go to guy is such a multi-dimensional threat like your post illustrates. Although he is a very good scorer his unselfishness and ability to penetrate the d make him a force in crunch time. This is on top of his abilities at the other end of the floor with defense, steals, and boards which are always important down the stretch of a close game. As long as others are productive he shouldn’t have to force too much and hopefully lower the TO’s as Buford/Mullens establish themselves. I really love watching this kid play.
It’s time for a little payback to Butler. Thad may forgive, but he doesn’t ever forget. Go Bucks
Matt,
My high school lost to Buford in '07. It was then I noticed his remarkable talent.
I am not a Toledo homer, but i think he will play at the next level. The kid is a pure scorer and playing under the right coach to teach him defense.
Really wish Thad had gone after Chris Wright from the Dayton Flyers. He is from my alma mater and is an unbelievable athlete.
Beanie Wells makes me happy.
I have a man crush on Beanie Wells.
[...] course the hot words around town are Evan Turner and since Chris did a feature piece yesterday, we all know how important his role [...]